Inventory List

[BlueCrab]

Logic tells me that when it's Christmas night and you have made plans in advance to rise early the next day and fly to meet the rest of the family to continue celebrating Christmas, you don't arrange with someone to come over and take pictures of and/or molest your six year old daughter.

Nuisanceposter,

I agree, but what makes you think that it had to be John or Patsy who let the perp into the house?

BlueCrab

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Nuisanceposter,

I agree, but what makes you think that it had to be John or Patsy who let the perp into the house?

BlueCrab

Actually, I'm not sure about that. I never considered it could have Burke and a friend who killed JonBenet til I came here and read through your theories. At this point, I don't know which Ramsey I believe killed her, but I do believe it was one of the three of them.

But in the idea that this piece of sheet metal was used in connection with the murder, I would suspect that if the Ramseys were in on it, it would be one of the adults instead of Burke. If it was part of a late night photo session, I would assume that was Patsy rather than John, and not Burke at all. If it was used as a backdrop for photos of molestation, I suspect either or both J and P and not Burke.

As for Burke...I would assume he (and accomplice, because I think if he did this, he had one that left with the missing items) wouldn't go so far as to need to move any sheet metal anywhere...too risky. Too hard to work with, too easy to make noise, and for what purpose? If he did murder his sister, he kept it as simple as possible. After all, he was just a kid and not a criminal with an adult's experiences in life to draw on. I do have trouble believing he would know how to construct and implement to strangling device, but it's definitely possible he did.

And it hadn't occurred to me that the sheet of metal may have been lying on the floor. I had envisioned it as propped up against a wall.

 

[capps]

Quote from Why_nutt:
"What if the sheet of metal was laid down on the concrete floor over the safe door which was embedded in the floor?"

Interesting ...
Does anyone know more about the safe door?
Does this thought sound crazy:
The metal sheet was covering the safe door,the perp wrapped JonBenet papoose style,he moved the sheet metal planning to hide JB's body inside the safe,and planned to return the sheet metal back to it's original position over the safe door,thinking JB's body would not be found,or at least not found for a very long time. But,something went wrong ... maybe the space was too small to fit JB's body,so the perp panicked and just left JB's body in the wine cellar,and took off?

Any thoughts on that? It would explain the sound of scrapping metal,and also that's why the LE took it as evidence,because it obviously looked like it was moved? Crazy idea?

 

[BlueCrab]

We don't know anything about the piece of black sheetmetal found in the wine cellar other than there was something special about it or it wouldn't have been taken in by the cops as evidence. We don't even know how big it was. However, if Luther Stanton heard noise in the middle of the night that sounded like metal scraping concrete, then the sheetmetal has to be a candidate as the possible source.

And yes, the sheetmetal could have been dropped on the concrete floor in the basement and heard by Luther Stanton across the street because of the amplifying effect of the air duct in the boiler room.

But how would the sheetmetal stand out as an item of evidence? Perhaps there was no dust on the sheetmetal, suggesting to the cops it had been recently handled. Or maybe the sheetmetal showed up in other pictures snapped earlier by the Ramseys, such as the ones of JonBenet in the laundry room.

BlueCrab

 

[UKGuy]

Quote from Why_nutt:
"What if the sheet of metal was laid down on the concrete floor over the safe door which was embedded in the floor?"

Interesting ...
Does anyone know more about the safe door?
Does this thought sound crazy:
The metal sheet was covering the safe door,the perp wrapped JonBenet papoose style,he moved the sheet metal planning to hide JB's body inside the safe,and planned to return the sheet metal back to it's original position over the safe door,thinking JB's body would not be found,or at least not found for a very long time. But,something went wrong ... maybe the space was too small to fit JB's body,so the perp panicked and just left JB's body in the wine cellar,and took off?

Any thoughts on that? It would explain the sound of scrapping metal,and also that's why the LE took it as evidence,because it obviously looked like it was moved? Crazy idea?

capps,

Yes , something along these lines, I wish I knew the dimensions of that floor safe.

With JonBenet's arms extended in rigor mortis, its likely she would have been too large for many places.

Seems like some people find the possibility of JonBenet posing for photograph sessions more credible?


.

 

[capps]

"But how would the sheetmetal stand out as an item of evidence? Perhaps there was no dust on the sheetmetal, suggesting to the cops it had been recently handled."

BlueCrab,

Or maybe just the opposite.
Perhaps there was dust on the sheetmetal,and the perp left gloved fingerprints on it.

 

[capps]

capps,

Yes , something along these lines, I wish I knew the dimensions of that floor safe.

With JonBenet's arms extended in rigor mortis, its likely she would have been too large for many places.

Seems like some people find the possibility of JonBenet posing for photograph sessions more credible?


.

UKGuy,

JonBenet would not have been in rigor mortis at that time though. I wish I knew the dimensions too.

Just another brain storming thought ....

 

[Nehemiah]

Something else I noticed is the red/white/black hair ties that were taken into evidence. The autopsy stated that she was wearing blue hair ties. I have said many times here that I was perplexed that JB wore red, black, and white to the White's party, yet she had blue hairties in her hair; that just didn't sound like a thing that Patsy would have done--mismatched the hair ties to her outfit. So, according to what was taken into evidence on the 26th, we have the black/white/red hairties, and I bet she wore those to the White's party, matching her outfit. However, she was obviously found dead in the blue ones. Patsy never mentions in her interviews with LE that she did anything to JB's hair when they got home. However, the hairties were changed in some way, at some time between arriving home and finding her body, or so it seems.

 

[trixie]

We don't know anything about the piece of black sheetmetal found in the wine cellar other than there was something special about it or it wouldn't have been taken in by the cops as evidence. We don't even know how big it was. However, if Luther Stanton heard noise in the middle of the night that sounded like metal scraping concrete, then the sheetmetal has to be a candidate as the possible source.

And yes, the sheetmetal could have been dropped on the concrete floor in the basement and heard by Luther Stanton across the street because of the amplifying effect of the air duct in the boiler room.

But how would the sheetmetal stand out as an item of evidence? Perhaps there was no dust on the sheetmetal, suggesting to the cops it had been recently handled. Or maybe the sheetmetal showed up in other pictures snapped earlier by the Ramseys, such as the ones of JonBenet in the laundry room.

BlueCrab

Cops take all kinds of things, most of it has nothing to do with a crime. It's just CYA. I'm liking this sheet metal idea, capps. In PMPT it says something was on the floor covering the safe. As if something were being used purposely to cover it. Can't remember what exactly that "something" was, tho. It's a big book to have to go searching. Anybody here know what I'm talking about?

 

[aussiesheila]

Something else I noticed is the red/white/black hair ties that were taken into evidence. The autopsy stated that she was wearing blue hair ties. I have said many times here that I was perplexed that JB wore red, black, and white to the White's party, yet she had blue hairties in her hair; that just didn't sound like a thing that Patsy would have done--mismatched the hair ties to her outfit. So, according to what was taken into evidence on the 26th, we have the black/white/red hairties, and I bet she wore those to the White's party, matching her outfit. However, she was obviously found dead in the blue ones. Patsy never mentions in her interviews with LE that she did anything to JB's hair when they got home. However, the hairties were changed in some way, at some time between arriving home and finding her body, or so it seems.

I think JonBenet went to bed with one hairtie. I think her long hair would have got in the way of a neck ligature so the perpetrators put the extra hairtie on to get her hair up and out of the way of the ligature so they could operate it more effectively.

 

[aussiesheila]

I think it is far more likely than not that the sheet metal was not used for photography

What if the sheet of metal was laid down on the concrete floor over the safe door which was embedded in the floor?

Try this. Take a look at this photo. See that clear area to the left, with the sharply-defined lines marking where the white concrete dust had not formed? Imagine that there was a piece of sheet metal there.

why_nutt, I agree with all the above suggestions you made.

Maybe the perpetrators were told that there was a cavity for a safe covered by a metal sheet in the basement and it was suggested this would be a good place for them to hide the body. So they went to the cellar and dragged the metal sheet aside making that scraping noise.

Unfortunately for them there was not a cavity underneath large enough to put the body so they just had to leave it on the floor of the cellar.

 

[BlueCrab]

I think JonBenet went to bed with one hairtie. I think her long hair would have got in the way of a neck ligature so the perpetrators put the extra hairtie on to get her hair up and out of the way of the ligature so they could operate it more effectively.

aussiesheila,

You could be right, since one hairtie higher up of the other one doesn't make much sense, especially for bedtime. However, when things really got violent the hair became entwined under the ligature anyway (as did the chain with the cross on it).

Back to the sheetmetal for a moment and its possible use as a backdrop for taking pictures: Normally blue is used for a plain backdrop, but because JonBenet was fair-skinned and blonde, the black backdrop would have likely created an interesting contrast for a photo-shoot. Therefore, if the sheetmetal had been used for a photo session, it seems that a touch of professional photography could have been involved.

BlueCrab

 

[Camper]

I am wondering also how BIG the floor safe was and how access would be accomplished, a padlock, a combination lock, a key er?

The apparent dust free look of that squarish area, could have been covered by the sheet metal, and a fixture of the home. Stanton hearing metal scraping AFTER the scream, would mean that that particular piece of sheet metal taken into evidence was NOT the one that made the noise that Stanton heard.

Several items of interest on that evidence list that cause ponderment.

One that stuck out at me were the entries for FOA Swartz, believe the entry is in error, believe it is 'FAO' Swartz. Either I am wrong, or the person writing the entrys was sort of dislexic. Someone correct me if I am wrong. Entrys are not complete enough to suit me.



.

 

[DeDee]

I wonder why they took hair from John Ramsey's hairbrush, but none from Patsy's brush or even Burke's. The only reason I can think of is that John's brush had long blonde hair in it, which would tend to raise an investigative eyebrow. What other reason could there be for the discrepancy?

Still looking at the inventory list ... I wonder why they would take a sleeping mask?

bbm

I believe it was Det Everett that went down to the cellar to look around right after JR brought JBR's body upstairs and Det Everett observed 2 blankets in the center of the room. This was in the text of the search warrant. That is why alot of people think one blanket and the barbie nightgown may have came from the downstairs dryer.

Odd that only one blanket was inventoried.

Hair found in brush in Mr. Ramsey's bathroom (53KKY) Well, JR didn't have much so some of the hairs from JB must have been in the brush.

One sleeping mask (101KKY) Was JonBenét led to the basement wearing an eyemask?

Underwear (9JRB) Must be men's or boys's

Angel from Christmas tree (8PP) Wasn't this the angel for the memory of Beth?

 

[gramcracker]

thank you, for bringing this thread forward

 

[Mama2JML]

aussiesheila,

You could be right, since one hairtie higher up of the other one doesn't make much sense, especially for bedtime. However, when things really got violent the hair became entwined under the ligature anyway (as did the chain with the cross on it).

Back to the sheetmetal for a moment and its possible use as a backdrop for taking pictures: Normally blue is used for a plain backdrop, but because JonBenet was fair-skinned and blonde, the black backdrop would have likely created an interesting contrast for a photo-shoot. Therefore, if the sheetmetal had been used for a photo session, it seems that a touch of professional photography could have been involved.

BlueCrab

BBM
Interesting conjecture, IMO.

 

[THE BUNK]

I am wondering also how BIG the floor safe was and how access would be accomplished, a padlock, a combination lock, a key er?

Was there really a floor safe? Was it visible to a cursory scan? And a bigger question...is it possible the Ramseys had $118,000 of liquid cash or assets in that safe?

 

[DeeDee249]

Was there really a floor safe? Was it visible to a cursory scan? And a bigger question...is it possible the Ramseys had $118,000 of liquid cash or assets in that safe?

Yes there was a floor safe in the wine cellar, where JB's body was found. The family had not even known it was there at first, and it was covered by a piece of sheet metal, so not visible. I doubt there was anything at all in the safe. If what you are hinting at was some fictional intruder may have thought there was $118,000. in the safe and that is why that was the ransom amount- keep in mind there was no intruder and no one knew about that bonus amount except JR and Patsy. That amount was put in the fake ransom note for the purpose of throwing blame in the direction of a disgruntled employee. Other hints were a "small foreign faction" and, by JR's own words to Det Linda Arndt- "an inside job". They tried to throw blame in as many directions as they could, hoping something would stick.

 

[gramcracker]

Ramsey housekeeper March '93 - Sept '95

LINDA WILCOX: Yes, and the kids were in one of the other rooms playing. There had been a refrigerator down there. We were cleaning it out and doing things and I was, the floor leading to that room is linoleum and I was cleaning it by hand and I was backing myself out of the room so I wouldn't track over what I had cleaned. And I was backing myself into the wine cellar, the vacuum was behind me as I backed into the wine cellar. When I saw the safe on the floor and I go, hey did you know that there was a safe in here? It was covered with chips and paint and it hadn't been touched in a long time and I actually cleaned it off. And Patsy goes, 'Nah, I didn't know, John probably knows. Maybe he should, you know, drill it out sometime." As far as I know it was never used, there was never anything in it. There was no sign that it had been touched in years when I found it.

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-linda-wilcox.htm