Ireland Ireland - Cork, Fem, 70s, nightgown, dentures, crucifix & coffin handles, buried ~10yrs, Jan'21

[TootsieFootsie]

Gardai call in undertakers in bid to solve mystery of bones found in Cork ditch

IRISH undertakers may hold the key to solving the mystery identity of an elderly woman whose bones were found in a ditch in east Cork.

Shocked workmen working on a greenway between Midleton and Dungourney unearthed a human skull on January 5 last.

Gardai then conducted a full scale search of the area beneath a bridge popular for rubbish dumping, to discover more bones and evidence including a crucifix and coffin handles.

Gardai have now been in contact with funeral directors to see if they found any disturbed graves in graveyards in their local areas.

And cops have also been asking if undertakers are aware of any family circumstances that could have led to the illegal exhumation of the woman’s body.

 

[Bit of hope]

What a weird story.

 

[Bit of hope]

It almost never happens but when I was awake for a while during the night I was thinking of this story. It triggers my imagination. Imagine your mother, grandmother, sister, wife ending up in a ditch. I think a coffin is not a thing you would miss easily, or was it already far gone when potentially dug up...are they sure it were coffin handles?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

It's like one of those episodes out of an old tv comedy series.

I wonder if whoever did this was thinking there was something valuable buried with the woman.

 

[Bit of hope]

It's like one of those episodes out of an old tv comedy series.

I wonder if whoever did this was thinking there was something valuable buried with the woman.

I agree, it's kind of funny to me too, but also very sad. Oops, we lost grandma. But ok...let's stay serious.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Oh I didn't mean to make it sound like I thought it was funny. I was just trying to think of a possible reason behind it.

I hope they find out who did this. It is very sad.

 

[Bit of hope]

MYSTERY IDENTITY
It’s understood some of the bones were also found in a plastic rubbish bag.

Gardai previously revealed the woman was in her 70s, was wearing a white nightgown, had dentures, suffered from arthritis, was large framed and relatively small in height of between 5ft and 5ft 2 inches.

Undertakers throughout the area, the county and further afield have now been contacted by gardai asking them to be on the alert for any freshly dug or disturbed graves in graveyards they frequent.

The source said: “All the indications are that a grave was dug and that this woman’s skeletal remains along with remnants of the coffin were taken out.

“When the searches were conducted a number of bones were found in a bag which would indicate that this was used to hold loose bones from the original grave. It appears that everything taken from the grave was then dumped at the old railway line location.

DNA samples taken from the body were compared against the National DNA Database but failed to reveal a positive match for the body, which is believed to have lain undiscovered for about 10 years.

“The possibility of getting a facial reconstruction done is now in hand. We hear about this and have an image of the face reconstructed using putty-like materials with the contours and features of the face taken into account.

“Instead we are looking at a high tech 3D reconstruction scan to create an image of what this poor woman looks like.

 

[Bit of hope]

Oh I didn't mean to make it sound like I thought it was funny. I was just trying to think of a possible reason behind it.

I hope they find out who did this. It is very sad.

I was triggered by your remark about old comedy series. And of course my tendency to have very black humor. Sorry.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

What if it's someone who died at home, an expected death, hence having a coffin handy.
For some reason, probably to do with money they wanted to keep her "alive".

They were trying to do the right thing by her by having a coffin, and were transporting it when there was an accident of some kind and they needed to ditch the coffin in a hurry.

That's all I can think of right now, unless it is someone who was previously buried., maybe in some old small secluded unmanned church yard.

 

[Bit of hope]

What if it's someone who died at home, an expected death that for some reason, probably to do with money they wanted to keep her "alive".

They were trying to do the right thing by her by having a coffin, and were transporting it when there was an accident of some kind and they needed to ditch the coffin in a hurry.

That's all I can think of right now, unless it is someone who was previously buried., maybe in some old small secluded unmanned church yard.

Yes, you would think there is some kind of registration/duty to report if a cemetery administrator
notices a disturbed grave. Or maybe a landowner discovered the (private) grave and didn't want to go through "all the trouble".

 

[Laughing]

Sometimes cemeteries are moved, at least in the US? Usually when large dams or train tracks or airports or highways are built.

NO idea if this could be part of our decedent's equation?

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[TootsieFootsie]

It happens here too, in Australia.

Cemeteries next to old churches that have been sold for people to convert into houses. Not sure if much of an effort was made to get in touch with relatives.

 

[Al Ka]

There is definitely thread for this case here somewhere, as I do remember discussion from back then in January.

Edit to add: I tried to search for it and can't find it. Not sure why, maybe thread did not have prefix or some other reason. There was definitely discussion here about the case.

 

[Bit of hope]

Human remains found in Cork may be from coffin that was moved

The Irish Times understands that gardaí found a type of crucifix, either attached to the lid of a coffin or placed in a deceased person’s hands, while they also found coffin handles near where the body was found buried in a metre high mound of earth and rubbish.

Those discoveries, in addition to the fact that gardaí have not been able to find a DNA match with anyone in the missing persons database, have led them to look at the possibility the remains are not those of a missing person but of someone who was buried in a cemetery but later dug up and dumped.

Supt Gamble also confirmed that the remains are not those of Tina Satchwell (47) missing from her home in Youghal since March 2017. He also told a press briefing that gardaí have found no DNA matches between the remains and women on the Garda missing persons data base.

The woman’s skull and other remains were found on January 5th last at an area known as the Shanty Path in Roxborough

Under Irish law, anyone seeking to exhume a body must apply for an exhumation licence from the local authority responsible for the upkeep of the cemetery where the person is buried in keeping with the provisions of Section 46 of the Local Government Sanitary Services Act 1948.

The legislation specifies that exhuming a body without a licence issued by the relevant local authority, constitutes a criminal offence which is punishable by a fine or imprisonment for a period of six months or both.

 

[YaYa_521]

DNA, dental records key to identifying skeletal remains
January 10 2021
SBM

• wrapped in cloth with a small piece of religious jewellery
• adult woman
• aged somewhere between 55 and 85 years
• Fragments of disintegrated clothing
• likely been in situ for longer than five years.
• initially suspected the remains were historic,... [snip] ...believe the bones are more recent, possibly dating to between the last five and 25 years.
• no sign of trauma or violence to the skull

 

[Susikatze]

There was a quite prominent case of a necrophiliac in Germany who habitually broke into burial vaults and dug up fresh graves to molest the female corpses. He also sometimes took them out of the cemetery and dumped them in random places once "done". Happened maybe 25 years ago.
That case here really reminds me of that.
They should call all cemeteries of the surrounding areas and ask them to check all their female burials for damage. The damage can be small and almost invisible.

Only difference is and maybe that is crucial, he only went for fresh burials. "Our" body was skeletal.

 

[Bit of hope]

There was a quite prominent case of a necrophiliac in Germany who habitually broke into burial vaults and dug up fresh graves to molest the female corpses. He also sometimes took them out of the cemetery and dumped them in random places once "done". Happened maybe 25 years ago.
That case here really reminds me of that.
They should call all cemeteries of the surrounding areas and ask them to check all their female burials for damage. The damage can be small and almost invisible.

Only difference is and maybe that is crucial, he only went for fresh burials. "Our" body was skeletal.

What a horrible modus operandi and an interesting case. The skeleton was there for an estimated 10 years and was an old woman....Was this German person going for a certain kind of female corpses, age like?

 

[Susikatze]

What a horrible modus operandi and an interesting case. The skeleton was there for an estimated 10 years and was an old woman....Was this German person going for a certain kind of female corpses, age like?

No, this perpetrator did not care about the age of the deceased, just about a fresh corpse and a female. His main "victims" were old ladies burials... Creepy and horrible.

Really smells like such a case, too. Maybe the perpetrator dumped the coffin and it was not discovered for some time...

 

[Melt71]

www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41318392.html
Media article dated 26 January 2024, with no new information, but calling for tips.

Gardaí have issued a fresh appeal to the public for information on the identity of skeletal remains found at a construction site in Cork in January 2021

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Oh I didn't mean to make it sound like I thought it was funny. I was just trying to think of a possible reason behind it.

I hope they find out who did this. It is very sad.

It puts me in mind of the case of Gladys Hammond, whose body was dug up 20 years ago by the Animal Liberation Front, an extremist/terrorist animal rights group, as part of a terror campaign against her family's farming activities (they bred guinea pigs for laboratories amongst other things).

The perps were banged up for fairly lengthy terms of imprisonment and the body was eventually recovered and reburied.

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