Ireland Ireland - Sligo, WhtMale, 50-70, aka 'Peter Bergmann', prostate cancer, Jun'09

[MrPollunder]

Hi everyone,

I posted here a few years ago but have been quiet since. Was thinking about this case today and I have just realised something. It doesn't really tell us anything new but I think it can somewhat conclusively rule out the possibility that PB grew up outside Austria or Germany. There is a small detail that I think could possibly point to this man having been Austrian, but it is maybe a bit of a reach.

I was reviewing the Imgur photos that somebody shared earlier in the thread, when I remembered that the way that Peter wrote his lower case letter t's looked quite unique to me as a native English speaker. Compare the way he wrote the lower case t to that in the Österreicher Schulschrift from 1969 and the DDR's Schreibschrift-Vorlage from 1958. Without having dug to deep into it, I would be very surprised if the lower case t was taught this way in Belgium, France, the Netherlands, or anywhere else in Europe really.

Now, the small detail that makes me think it's more likely that this man was Austrian than German. Look at how the numbers 2 and 7 were written in Deutsch Normalschrift (Germany), which was introduced in 1941. Now compare the 2 and the 7 to the Österreicher Schulschrift I linked above and also this low quality image of Österreicher Schrift (Austria) that is from at least pre-WW2, but possibly even pre-WW1. Compare these numbers to how Peter wrote his 2, 4, and 7.

I would be really interested in seeing the handwriting of Austrians who were born in the 40s or 50s if anyone has access.

I know that this is not groundbreaking and could be a stretch, but I am interested to hear what you all think.

Cheers!

 

[FromGermany1]

Look at the name BERGMANN: The second letter "e" looks like it was overwritten on a "P" as if he tried to write BPeter first, then came to BERGMANN PETER.

We know, at least his surname is false, so it doesn't help.

 

[Carovb5]

Hi everyone,

I posted here a few years ago but have been quiet since. Was thinking about this case today and I have just realised something. It doesn't really tell us anything new but I think it can somewhat conclusively rule out the possibility that PB grew up outside Austria or Germany. There is a small detail that I think could possibly point to this man having been Austrian, but it is maybe a bit of a reach.

I was reviewing the Imgur photos that somebody shared earlier in the thread, when I remembered that the way that Peter wrote his lower case letter t's looked quite unique to me as a native English speaker. Compare the way he wrote the lower case t to that in the Österreicher Schulschrift from 1969 and the DDR's Schreibschrift-Vorlage from 1958. Without having dug to deep into it, I would be very surprised if the lower case t was taught this way in Belgium, France, the Netherlands, or anywhere else in Europe really.

Now, the small detail that makes me think it's more likely that this man was Austrian than German. Look at how the numbers 2 and 7 were written in Deutsch Normalschrift (Germany), which was introduced in 1941. Now compare the 2 and the 7 to the Österreicher Schulschrift I linked above and also this low quality image of Österreicher Schrift (Austria) that is from at least pre-WW2, but possibly even pre-WW1. Compare these numbers to how Peter wrote his 2, 4, and 7.

I would be really interested in seeing the handwriting of Austrians who were born in the 40s or 50s if anyone has access.

I know that this is not groundbreaking and could be a stretch, but I am interested to hear what you all think.

Cheers!

If you search “nieuwere schrijfmethode -Broeders & Schneider” you’ll find that they learned both the ‘t’ you’re talking about as well as the “normal t”. It was made in Belgium & at least used from 1967 on (as you can see from a published book about this method, made in 1967, maybe even earlier.

In short: In Belgium they learned the “t”
also.

DIDPLAL00032

www.sincfala.be

UniCat-Search

unicat.be

 

[Novosti]

One or two similarities here to the David Lytton case. Like Lytton and Saddleworth, is it possible that Bergmann associated Sligo beaches with a natural beauty he felt would make a good place to die? In Lytton's case the connection to Saddleworth was possibly as tenuous as a poster he liked as a younger man. But could Bergmann have visited Sligo as a young man, and wanted to recapture, in his final moments, some of those memories? It also seems fairly probable that Lytton and Bergmann were both Jews in poor health of a certain age - although I'm not sure what to make of that.

 

[Melt71]

Article dated 13 January 2025
www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-41550049.html
More than 360 families of missing people have submitted their DNA in a bid to find their loved ones since establishment of a samples database almost a decade ago. The database currently also contains the DNA of 43 unidentified people, whose remains are either buried or in storage awaiting a match. However, sources familiar with the process of attempting to re-unite unidentified remains with their families say that Ireland’s DNA database is very limited.

Case 4: Peter Bergmann

The case of a man who checked into a hotel in Sligo as Peter Bergmann continues to fascinate people, as his true identity remains unknown.
Despite CCTV footage being available of the man, attempts to identify him since his body was found on the beach at Rosses Point outside Sligo on June 16, 2009, have failed.

He is buried in a cemetery in Sligo.

The man arrived in Sligo on June 12, 2009, on a bus from Derry and he used a false name to check into a hotel later that day.

He checked into the hotel for three nights.

He was sighted and captured on CCTV in and around the Sligo area for a number of days before his death.

Identification cards were also found at the scene but were blank, according to the human remains database.

While his nationality are unknown, he is understood to have told a local taxi driver he hired that he was Austrian and he also gave an address in Vienna as his address when checking into the hotel.

He had a gold tooth.

When the human remains database was unveiled in May 2023, his case was not featured on it but has since been added to it.

As well as CCTV images of him, the listing also includes a photo of him post-mortem.

An inquest into his death took place in April 2010 and a verdict of death by drowning was returned.

 

[Romulus]

Possible this man Paul Robert Mora? Age is off...

https://www.bka.de/DE/IhreSicherheit/Fahndungen/Personen/BekanntePersonen/PRM/Personenfahndung.html

 

[FromGermany1]

https://www.handelsblatt.com/finanz...gen-banker-paul-mora-erneut-an/100003304.html

Mora, so der Vorwurf der Staatsanwaltschaften, bediente sich besonders dreist aus der Staatskasse: Laut Kölner Anklage war er mitverantwortlich für die Hinterziehung von 447,5 Millionen Euro Steuern, verteilt über mehr als 30 Taten zwischen 2006 und 2011.
Mora begann seine Karriere als Banker 1991 beim japanischen Finanzriesen Sumitomo. Später wechselte er zur US-Bank Merrill Lynch und der Schweizer Credit Suisse First Boston. Zum 1. Mai 2004 holte die Hypovereinsbank (HVB) Mora an ihren Handelstisch noch London. Damals wurden C*m-Ex-Geschäfte in der Branche beliebt.
Google translation:
According to prosecutors, Mora was particularly brazen in his use of state funds: According to the Cologne indictment, he was jointly responsible for the evasion of €447.5 million in taxes, spread across more than 30 offenses between 2006 and 2011.

Mora began his banking career in 1991 at the Japanese financial giant Sumitomo. He later moved to the US bank Merrill Lynch and the Swiss bank Credit Suisse First Boston. On May 1, 2004, Hypovereinsbank (HVB) brought Mora to its trading desk in London. At that time, c*m-ex transactions were becoming popular in the industry.
-.-.-
Google:

Ermittler klagen flüchtigen Banker Paul Mora erneut an​

Handelsblatt
Handelsblatt › cu...

4 Jan 2024 — Ermittler klagen flüchtigen Banker Paul Mora erneut an · Sein Name steht in vielen Ermittlungsakten · Mora arbeitete eng mit Hanno Berger zusammen.

-.-.-
The name Hanno Berger .....
Our Peter Bergmann isn't the same person, but maybe PB used the name to create his own fake name, because he knew HB for some reason?

 

[Carovb5]

Possible this man Paul Robert Mora? Age is off...

https://www.bka.de/DE/IhreSicherheit/Fahndungen/Personen/BekanntePersonen/PRM/Personenfahndung.html

View attachment 572201View attachment 572202

I get/see why you suggest him. His lips are what makes me think it’s not him. In all pictures his lips are verry thin.

 

[Carovb5]

I wonder if the picture of missing Detlef Gottschling was recent or old when he went missing. I see resemblances but there would have to be a lot of time between the picture & the moment he died… he went missing april 18 2009.

Detlef Gottschling

Detlef Gottschling was a man who went missing from Berlin, Germany on April 18, 2009. Detlef lived alone in his apartment in Berlin-Wedding. Since he was unemployed, he had a social worker. The latter described him as an extremely friendly man with whom one could have good conversations. After...

int-missing.fandom.com

I know foolplay is expected in his dissapearance, but you never know. Might have fled due to danger…

 

[Ark]

I wonder if the picture of missing Detlef Gottschling was recent or old when he went missing. I see resemblances but there would have to be a lot of time between the picture & the moment he died… he went missing april 18 2009.

Detlef Gottschling

Detlef Gottschling was a man who went missing from Berlin, Germany on April 18, 2009. Detlef lived alone in his apartment in Berlin-Wedding. Since he was unemployed, he had a social worker. The latter described him as an extremely friendly man with whom one could have good conversations. After...

int-missing.fandom.com

I know foolplay is expected in his dissapearance, but you never know. Might have fled due to danger…

Time is one factor, but also the jawlines of the two look very different unfortunately.

 

[Carovb5]

Time is one factor, but also the jawlines of the two look very different unfortunately.

Thanks for taking the time to take a look! I find jawlines more difficult when the picture is taken from different angles + in cases where men seem to “tighten” their jaw in a picture, like here. When they bite their teeth & the jaw is more pronounced then in a relaxed state.

 

[Ark]

Thats a fair point,

With these two though, when i look at it anyway, the gap between the bottom of their mouth to the bottom of the jaw seems quite different. "Bergmann"'s gap seems a lot longer than Gottschlings, if you see what i mean. Just my observation obviously, but, that's what really stuck out for me.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

 

[ey_see_el]

I can't shake the idea that, because he hasn't been declared dead and so much time has lapsed, his real name might be hiding in the computer system of some government agency somewhere – either in Ireland, the UK, Germany or Austria.

Someone with a history of heart disease and cancer who hasn't sought treatment since 2009 at the latest, but who also hasn't been declared dead (because his true identity isn't known).

Someone who the government thinks is still alive, but hasn't paid tax or collected pension since 2009.

Somebody who (presumably) had a passport in or before 2009, that has now lapsed and not been renewed.

And what about ports of entry in Northern Ireland and the Republic? Did they used to scan passports in 2009? Did they check these for the weeks leading up to his death? Were there any passports that entered Ireland and never left? Rhetorical questions obviously.

I suppose none of us really know how much information our government is collecting on us, but surely somewhere – whether it's a doctor's surgery or a passport office or a tax agency – this man's real name is on file but hasn't been updated in nearly 16 years.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Play about mysterious case of unidentified man ‘Peter Bergmann’ to feature at Galway Theatre Festival

A play about the mysterious death of an unidentified man, known as Peter Bergmann, is set to feature at Galway Theatre Festival in May.

www.sundayworld.com

 

[Susikatze]

Hi everyone,

I posted here a few years ago but have been quiet since. Was thinking about this case today and I have just realised something. It doesn't really tell us anything new but I think it can somewhat conclusively rule out the possibility that PB grew up outside Austria or Germany. There is a small detail that I think could possibly point to this man having been Austrian, but it is maybe a bit of a reach.

I was reviewing the Imgur photos that somebody shared earlier in the thread, when I remembered that the way that Peter wrote his lower case letter t's looked quite unique to me as a native English speaker. Compare the way he wrote the lower case t to that in the Österreicher Schulschrift from 1969 and the DDR's Schreibschrift-Vorlage from 1958. Without having dug to deep into it, I would be very surprised if the lower case t was taught this way in Belgium, France, the Netherlands, or anywhere else in Europe really.

Now, the small detail that makes me think it's more likely that this man was Austrian than German. Look at how the numbers 2 and 7 were written in Deutsch Normalschrift (Germany), which was introduced in 1941. Now compare the 2 and the 7 to the Österreicher Schulschrift I linked above and also this low quality image of Österreicher Schrift (Austria) that is from at least pre-WW2, but possibly even pre-WW1. Compare these numbers to how Peter wrote his 2, 4, and 7.

I would be really interested in seeing the handwriting of Austrians who were born in the 40s or 50s if anyone has access.

I know that this is not groundbreaking and could be a stretch, but I am interested to hear what you all think.

Cheers!

I have an Austrian mom and grandma. Neither learned this type of t in cursive, my mom (born 1954) writes a perfect pre 1969 Austrian cursive script which is none of the shown samples. it has connected t-s.
This t written by Peter is a generic t in a sloppy print handwriting. Nothing special or identifiable.

 

[Bobban]

There is a clip in the documentary The last days of Peter Bergmann where he is seen smoking in some kind of back entrance space. The space he is in might have had some sign that made it clear it was OK to smoke in there for all i know but I thought it was an odd choice if not. Coming from a Scandinavian country I would think it's very rude to smoke in any kind of entrance and it's pretty much culturally considered unacceptable.

Assuming the room wasn't advertised as a smoking area, is his choice to not walk all the way outside but stay in the doorway maybe something that was culturally normal where he spent the majority of his life? Is this common in Austria? It would be great to hear if anyone has any knowledge or experience with smoking in other areas of Europe.

 

[Warwick1991]

There is a clip in the documentary The last days of Peter Bergmann where he is seen smoking in some kind of back entrance space. The space he is in might have had some sign that made it clear it was OK to smoke in there for all i know but I thought it was an odd choice if not. Coming from a Scandinavian country I would think it's very rude to smoke in any kind of entrance and it's pretty much culturally considered unacceptable.

Assuming the room wasn't advertised as a smoking area, is his choice to not walk all the way outside but stay in the doorway maybe something that was culturally normal where he spent the majority of his life? Is this common in Austria? It would be great to hear if anyone has any knowledge or experience with smoking in other areas of Europe.
View attachment 586018

My thought is that Bergmann was originally from an Eastern Bloc country, probably the former DDR, where smoking was far more acceptable than in Western Europe.

 

[FromGermany1]

"Personally, this whole thing is going too far for me," smoker Shay Mahony told the Reuters news agency about the ban's entry into force. "I mean, what's the next legal haircut?" asked the avid smoker, who says he's been smoking 20 cigarettes a day for 20 years. However, he doesn't believe the owner of his favorite pub in north Dublin will comply with the ban.

And so I'm thinking: PB's hotel staff perhaps let him smoke in the little hallway, who knows.

Rauchverbot in Irland: Der Beginn einer neuen Ära

Irland ist das erste Land der Welt, das Zigarettenkonsum in sämtlichen Restaurants und Kneipen verbietet. Ab heute tritt das Verbot in Kraft. Nichtraucherverbände sind begeistert, aber es gibt auch Proteste. Vor allem betroffene Wirte kündigten an, sie werden den Beschluss nicht akzeptieren.

www.spiegel.de

 

[Doug E]

Possible explanation for the purple bags.

We know from the autopsy report that PB had advanced prostate cancer. As such it is highly probable that he suffered from incontinence and had to use incontinence pants on a regular daily basis.
At home one would dispose of used incontinence pants in the normal rubbish disposal bins - in a hotel the only place to put such items would likely be in a small bin in the bathroom which possibly would not be big enough and the person concerned might be embarrassed to leave them for the person cleaning the room to deal with.
I suggest therefore that PB may have made a daily trip to a nearby rubbish bin in the streets to dispose of his used incontinence pants. From the CCTV pictures the purple bags appear to contain something soft, (no sharp edges).
If, as we are led to believe, he made at least 13 trips with the bags, the sheer volume of the contents of that many bags would exceed what he brought into the hotel in his hold-all. The pants when dry and unused would of course have a much smaller volume than when wet and used, so possibly there was sufficient room in the hold-all when they were unused.
It is assumed that he had no passport with him but this is based on the fact that he was not asked to show one when he checked in. His passport could have been in the computer bag all along and he did also take that bag with him to Rosses Beach where it disappeared.
Interestingly he had a purple bag with him on his last day at Rosses Beach which could have been his supply of dry pants for that day.
When the police searched the local bins they were looking for his “person possessions” - used incontinence pants would I suspect not have drawn any attention.