Irwin Attorney: ‘Jersey’ Bragged About Kidnapping Lisa Irwin

[MissFine]

I don't need to link.

BBM: This is absolutely NOT true.

Scent discrimination can be extremely precise. It all depends upon what the canine has been trained to discriminate off of.

If a laboratory can distinguish between scent- then so can a properly trained canine, who has the physical ability to do so.

You'd be amazed at what an adept canine can scent discriminate between.

THANK YOU ORIAH.
We at WS appreciate your knowledge and appreciate the time you spend educating us.

 

[jacy]

THANK YOU ORIAH.
We at WS appreciate your knowledge and appreciate the time you spend educating us.

Yes! I've learned so much here. I thank you too, Oriah!

 

[MissJames]

Guilt? moo

I would add a Y as in GUILTY.

 

[Jacie Estes]

...thank you for the well thought out explanation...Innoncence is preventing the parents from speaking with LE. These parents are innocent and don't care to talk to LE about any possible suspects that stole and perhaps killed their child....got it!

...they are innocent and don't care to go on tv and beg for their child to be kept from harm. They are innocent and are not begging LE to find the SOB who did this...

...they are innocent so they will forget about her and not speak for Lisa since she is unable to speak for herself. They are innocent so it is not necessary to talk to police?

IF one is innocent, nothing would stop them from sitting at the station all day every day till LE finds your child. An innocent person would do anything, take any test, answer every question, subject themselves to intensive scrutiny to find their precious child. In fact, an innocent person who lost a child would even subject themselves to jail if that's what it took.

....................NOT THESE TWO!

I don't need to be verbose about coulda/shoulda/woulda. At this point, JI/DB are innocent; they have spoken with police. There is no one under arrest and no POIs or suspects in the case. No amount of rethoric on a website is going to change these facts.



jersey/MW/Dane are the suspicious ones, if anyone is.



"The actions of parents and of law enforcement in the first 48 hours are critical to the safe recovery of a missing child, but the rawness of emotion can seriously
hinder the ability of parents to make rational decisions at this crucial time."

"It is important to note that there is no right or wrong way to respond to the disappearance of a child, nor is there a right or wrong way to feel."

"Finally, as hard as it may seem, try to remain hopeful. Remember that hope is more than a wish, helping you to clear this hurdle. Hope is essential to your survival."

http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/pub...s/fam_surv.pdf

 

[Just K]

I can see that theoretically with one parent, but not both. I just have a hard time grasping how both parents would be conspiring to cover up the murder of their own daughter, especially since JI wasn't a part of it (he was at work).

Unless they are both covering for one or both of the boys.

Another Hypothesis
Or, if it actually happened before he left for work and each of the parents feels like he or she is the actual responsible party. Example: JI looses his temper when he can't even catch a short nap between shifts...he does something which may not have had an immediate result. DB checks on fussy baby, at 6:40 PM and decides to leave her in her crib. Fussy baby goes quiet, DB, the neighbors and the boys think she is sleeping. At 10:30, PM DB actually checks in on baby and finds her dead. She thinks it is her neglect that caused the baby to die. She finds the local criminal and ask for help in disposing of the evidence. She gives him three cell phones as payment. JI comes home to a missing baby. He either thinks he is covering for his live-in GF or she tells him how she found the unresponsive baby...cold, grey and lifeless but he thinks that it may be a result of what he did to the baby before leaving for work.

Or it happened even earlier and they both know how it happened and they agreed to find someone to take the baby out of the house and report an abduction in the wee hours of the morning. They let everyone know that the baby was finally sleeping and not to disturb her. After DB drinks with the neighbor and she is certain the neighbor is finally in for the night she calls MW's phone/the number she has for Jersey. She manipulates the screen to make it appear as if there was an abduction, she unlocks the front door and after Jersey has left with Lisa, she turns on all the lights.

There are any of a number of possibilities for how they could both be involved.

 

[Whisperer]

Though revenge is a valid motive, I struggle with it. Getting revenge on the Irwins would be keying their car or spray painting their home..but stealing a baby? Who steals a baby to get revenge?

The only case I heard about this is with Gil himself and that is what he thinks his GF did. I don't think LE buys into that theory, however.

There's kidnapping for ransom but that can be excluded in this case. I still can only come up with a sadist or crazed maniac who would steal this child. It can happen but the chances are slim....very very slim.

 

[Whisperer]

If Jersey did this, then he has to be a psychopath of huge proportions because very few of them go out and hunt down babies to steal/kill. What do we know about him? Is he a valid suspect?

He has criminal history. He is an arsonist and a thief. I don't have any psych profile on him. He is probably into drugs/alcohol. He could be included as a suspect if he has history of psychosis...with fantasies of sexual deviancy regarding babies or some preoccupation with stealing and perhaps killing a baby.

But if in psychosis, it is unlikely that he would hide a baby to never be found.

 

[yllek]

The defense team has not *publicly* put scrutiny. Someone had to tell Gil to make his claims about Mr. Brando. Where did he get the information? Was it while he was inside Phil Netz' home? He hinted at the "revenge" motive. Where did he get that information? The defense team? Who brought Mr. Brando to Mr. Spellman's attention? Do you think it was KCPD or someone associated with DB/JI? And if you look at the timeline, the police were talking to Mr. Brando well before the media began reporting about him. Was he on the list that JI and DB provided law enforcement? When it comes to Mr. Brando there's two time periods in question. Information provided before his phone records and polygraph (if you believe him when he says he took one) and information afterward.

I have an opinion as to why Mr. Abeyta is focused on Mr. Brando, and I don't think the parents told him anything (by his own account) nor did LE imo. I don't think the defense has put attention on Mr. Brando either, directly or indirectly through Mr. Abeyta. My opinions on why Mr. Abeyta is focused on Mr. Brando and why the defense is not are not based on any facts, just gut feelings. I'm gonna hold off on posting them unless/until there are some facts to substantiate my feelings on the subject.

I was just pointing out that it was not the defense team who publicly brought the media spotlight onto Mr. Brando. Neither the parents nor the lawyers have directly implicated him in any way thus far. JMO...

 

[cityslick]

Though revenge is a valid motive, I struggle with it. Getting revenge on the Irwins would be keying their car or spray painting their home..but stealing a baby? Who steals a baby to get revenge?

The only case I heard about this is with Gil himself and that is what he thinks his GF did. I don't think LE buys into that theory, however.

There's kidnapping for ransom but that can be excluded in this case. I still can only come up with a sadist or crazed maniac who would steal this child. It can happen but the chances are slim....very very slim.

Why does anyone abduct a child? As if there is some list of recommended answers to the question.

 

[suzilight]

Who is BS?

Of course it would show on their phone record. How else would anyone even know about this 50 second call at 11:57?

The initials are getting confusing, but I believe that Bill Stanton, the private investigator is who they are referring to.

 

[cityslick]

If Jersey did this, then he has to be a psychopath of huge proportions because very few of them go out and hunt down babies to steal/kill. What do we know about him? Is he a valid suspect?

You make it sound like people like this don't exist in the world. You also make it sound like psychopaths haven't abducted children before if for no other reason then to steal/kill.

 

[hambirg]

I have some questions about this triple heresy story.

How and when did this 17yr old girl find herself in a conversation with the unnamed homeless man?

How does this man know Jersey and when and where did they have their conversation?

Do we know who this unnamed homeless man is, and what's his mental state? :waitasec:

I'm sorry, but I'm pretty cynical about an "I heard it from a guy who heard it from another guy" story. Especially when it includes one of those guys being a homeless man, for all we know, might be crazier than a loon.

 

[mamamia54]

I have an opinion as to why Mr. Abeyta is focused on Mr. Brando, and I don't think the parents told him anything (by his own account) nor did LE imo. I don't think the defense has put attention on Mr. Brando either, directly or indirectly through Mr. Abeyta. My opinions on why Mr. Abeyta is focused on Mr. Brando and why the defense is not are not based on any facts, just gut feelings. I'm gonna hold off on posting them unless/until there are some facts to substantiate my feelings on the subject.

I was just pointing out that it was not the defense team who publicly brought the media spotlight onto Mr. Brando. Neither the parents nor the lawyers have directly implicated him in any way thus far. JMO...

Has it been explained anywhere just what caused the bad feeling between the Brando's and Irwins? I think this needs to be looked into. Did the baby possibly have anything to do with it?

 

[suzilight]

I agree with Karmaa that we do not know what DB told LE. She may have told them that she was drunk and not sure when she checked on Lisa in the beginning, but only changed the story that was told to the media. I could be wrong, it's just my opinion. If I am wrong, please let me know.

 

[justamommy]

IMO Jersey would do this for $300 but I don't think it was for ransom...to someone like Jersey that's a lot of money. I doubt that any of his "handyman" jobs brought that much money in 1 day. I don't think he's dumb at all...IMO Jersey is street smart and that is very dangerous.

Since LE has come out and stated that no one has been cleared and I don't think this was planned at all...I would take a very hard look at who within this group of characters was angry, who had access to Jersey that evening since he was in the neighborhood and who had the motive to pay someone like Jersey $300 to "payback" those sitting on the steps that evening talking and drinking while they were forced out of their home earlier that day.

I think once it is all said and done all of the information will tie together nicely. If it's who I think it is they are smart but they didn't think LE would be on them as fast as they were.

If I am correct I think BL will be found alive. All of this is IMO....

ETA: IIRC the person I am thinking was picked out of the picture line-up by the motorcycle dude as the person carrying the baby...

BBM

It is unfortunate that that lineup got screwed up. This IMO is why LE doesn't want random people "investigating". They could have determined whether MT was credible and maybe had some of these things tied up. jmo

 

[MissFine]

Innocence

nope innocent people take LDT
Innocent people actively beg for their babies return.
Innocent people don't say their life is getting back to normal.
Innocent people cooperate with LE. moo

 

[yllek]

Has it been explained anywhere just what caused the bad feeling between the Brando's and Irwins? I think this needs to be looked into. Did the baby possibly have anything to do with it?

AFAIK, there is no confirmation that there were bad feelings between the couples. All I've seen is an unconfirmed report that there was "acrimony with the neighbors" in relation to Mr. Brando leaving the house. Nothing confirmed and nothing with any kind of source.

 

[Whisperer]

Why does anyone abduct a child? As if there is some list of recommended answers to the question.

Matter of fact,there is. It is extremely rare for a child under the age of one to be abducted by a stranger...95%+ are killed by a parent.

Many older children are abducted by family members. Stranger abductions are usually sex related and the child is murdered. Occasionally they are enslaved, but rarely.

 

[DeAnn]

I have an opinion as to why Mr. Abeyta is focused on Mr. Brando, and I don't think the parents told him anything (by his own account) nor did LE imo. I don't think the defense has put attention on Mr. Brando either, directly or indirectly through Mr. Abeyta. My opinions on why Mr. Abeyta is focused on Mr. Brando and why the defense is not are not based on any facts, just gut feelings. I'm gonna hold off on posting them unless/until there are some facts to substantiate my feelings on the subject.

I was just pointing out that it was not the defense team who publicly brought the media spotlight onto Mr. Brando. Neither the parents nor the lawyers have directly implicated him in any way thus far. JMO...

Was he on the list provided to KCPD that JI spoke about? And if he was, would that be a direct implication?

Also, Gil knew a lot and I doubt KCPD talked to him. So who did? And who brought him to the attention of Jim Spellman? I suppose KCPD could have but why? Does it make more sense for the defense team to have done so? Like you, I have my thoughts on how those two things happened but like you I will keep my thoughts to myself.

 

[Whisperer]

You make it sound like people like this don't exist in the world. You also make it sound like psychopaths haven't abducted children before if for no other reason then to steal/kill.

I'm all ears if you care to share....