It's Christmas once again at Wal-Mart

[windovervocalcords]

So it's ok for them to be bullied into changing their greeting away from Christmas? Some may say 'who bullied' them? You'd have to ask them, since it was a change after decades of doing it one way. Someone convinced them to change it, obviously.
Furthermore, if someone doesn't want to shop somewhere, that is their right to do so, that isn't bullying.
And furthermore, yet, knowing marketing as I kind of do, the retail effect was more from the "spirit" of Christmas (as the retailerss spent decades trying to make it: shopping, giving, etc) being lost when it became generic. More people buy gifts for Christmas than any other religious or secular holiday. Take "Christmas" out of the equation, and that mindset of shopping, buying, etc. is lost. They likely realized they shot themselves in the foot by changing their marketing away from what had been so profitable for decades. The commercialization of Christmas sucks, but it is no surprise that making it generic had a negative retail effect, undoing decades of marketing it as the "Christmas Shopping Season."

"Wooly Bully boo...wooly bully--watch it now, watch it now.."

 

[Dark Knight]

Maybe they didn't need to be bullied - they just thought it was the right thing to do. Very much in the true spirit of Christmas anyway - goodwill to all men, type of thing.

Apparently they changed their mind and are going for the money, instead, LOL! They make more money catering to the majority, they finally realized.

 

[Marthatex]

Martha: Kind of like my house with my ex-husband. He was Jewish. When we were first married, we didn't have a tree or celebrate. My MIL one day decided I needed one. She and my ex went out shopping and bought one with all the trimmings to go with it. She was a lovely, thoughtful woman. Years after that she always enjoyed the tree with her grandsons.

I remember you mentioning it BG - that is really unusual i think.

I didn't mention that I had the Jewish - mother-in-law from H___, who wouldn't let me use her washing machine when we visited, and whined all the time LOL

No wonder my husband wanted to be Christian.....

 

[Dark Knight]

This is capitalism. The biggest retail season. It may be YOUR spiritual holy day but it's the almighty bucko's too.

Yes, that what I just said at the end. :slap:

 

[Marthatex]

Nova, you have reminded me that we are really talking about several differnt issues at once in all these posts.
I agree about Happy Holidays and it makes perfect sense,in general terms. I have no probelm with it, at all.
But I do have issue with it being considered offensive if I choose to say Merry Christmas to people. There are those here that are actually insulted if i say that to them. that is just ridiculousness to me.
As far as the retailers, I have no opinion because i just don't give a carp! Doesn't impact my holiday joy or celebration one iota. That's the money God anyway and it's about dollars and marketing not Christmas at all.

I hear ya on that; I'm leaning back toward "Merry Christmas", whomever I want to say it to; it's partly just a joyful, spirtual time of year for me.

I agree with Nova, tho, that stores shouldn't be forced into doing one way or another by a religious lobbying group. Jesus didn't lobby.

 

[Details]

Apparently they changed their mind and are going for the money, instead, LOL! They make more money catering to the majority, they finally realized.

Yep, that's what retail is all about. They tried to make both happy, and the majority stomped it's feet and threw a tantrum and said no. And that's how businesses work, which I'm fine with - I love it when they rise above that, but I understand how it works.

Our government through, they have a higher standard.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Yes, that what I just said at the end. :slap:

What do you know. We agree.

"Watch it now, watch it now"....wooly bully.

 

[Details]

I can't say I've ever run into anyone who thinks "Merry Christmas" is offensive, in real life. I think "Happy Holidays" is nicer, if the person doesn't know your religion, but "Merry Christmas" is just a positive wish in general (my MIL uses it as a weapon against anyone who dares say, "Happy Holidays" - in their face and loud, but that's another story).

 

[Dark Knight]

Yep, that's what retail is all about. They tried to make both happy, and the majority stomped it's feet and threw a tantrum and said no. And that's how businesses work, which I'm fine with - I love it when they rise above that, but I understand how it works.

Our government through, they have a higher standard.

Except with elections, as apparently the majority get their way there (except in the 2000 election, lol). You haven't explained who or how it's decided what majority is tyranny and what isn't? Methinks there is more tyranny by the minority than the majority, actually. A very vocal minority.

 

[Details]

Wait, you mean some majority ruling is tyranny and some isn't? Who gets to decide when the majority matters and when it doesn't? :waitasec:

Actually, I was correcting the very basic flaw that saying that "majority rules" isn't always the case doesn't mean that it's never the case.

IOW, if I say, not all cats have tails - that does not mean, no cats have tails.

Now, when majority matters, and when it doesn't - that's where the Constitution comes in. That's the reason for the bill of rights. And that's basically what it comes down to - maintaining the rights, fair treatment for the minority, a government unbiased by any group you might fall into - race, religion, gender, class, money, business, political party, etc. A government that doesn't favor any group ahead of any other group - period.

If majority ruled, I'm sure we'd have voted long ago, majority rules, to take the money from the richest, let's say, 15% of people, and distribute most of it to the rest of us. If majority ruled, the South might well still be segregated.

 

[Details]

Except with elections, as apparently the majority get their way there (except in the 2000 election, lol). You haven't explained who or how it's decided what majority is tyranny and what isn't? Methinks there is more tyranny by the minority than the majority, actually. A very vocal minority.

Wow - impatient!

Yeah, being in the majority and getting your way on nearly everything seems to only make people more upset by those few things they don't get their way on. Christmas is everywhere, all kinds of products and everyone says it - but that's not enough, businesses must greet you with your religion's greeting, or else!

While we're at, "you haven't explained"'s - you haven't explained how WalMart was bullied by non-Christians. In my search for "Wal-Mart boycott", I saw nothing other than the Christian groups boycotting.

 

[Dark Knight]

Wow - impatient!

Yeah, being in the majority and getting your way on nearly everything seems to only make people more upset by those few things they don't get their way on. Christmas is everywhere, all kinds of products and everyone says it - but that's not enough, businesses must greet you with your religion's greeting, or else!

While we're at, "you haven't explained"'s - you haven't explained how WalMart was bullied by non-Christians. In my search for "Wal-Mart boycott", I saw nothing other than the Christian groups boycotting.

I was hypothosising that someone/somewhere convinced various retailers to change how they did things, and it likely wasn't a Christian. Who else would they be pandering to?

 

[Details]

I was hypothosising that someone/somewhere convinced various retailers to change how they did things, and it likely wasn't a Christian. Who else would they be pandering to?

Sometimes it doesn't take force and threats of boycotts. Sometimes a business just sits there and thinks, "hmmm, how can we get more people in the store?" Maybe even they have a friend who is jewish who confesses how he hates going shopping at that time of year, because he feels like such an outcast. I work for a company where we suddenly got much better maternity benefits and consideration after the boss's wife got pregnant. No hissyfit, no boycott, no lawsuit, just a little wakeup call that something was not right, and they could fix it.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I was hypothosising that someone/somewhere convinced various retailers to change how they did things, and it likely wasn't a Christian. Who else would they be pandering to?

Vast Christmas War conspiracy?

 

[Dark Knight]

Wal-mart also announced that for the 2nd year they will be allowing the Salvation Army kettle workers to stand outside it's stores, after Target told them they were no longer welcome last year. Wal-mart has also matched donations made to the Salvation Army kettles.

 

[Nova]

Would you please explain this part? Surely you're not telling me that I don't know anything. :slap:

No, no, of course not. Details answered for me and did so perfectly.

 

[Nova]

In that case, maybe we should overturn the congressional elections, because voting in the Democrats is tyranny by the majority of voters. Let the lawsuits begin! The majority means nothing, after all! :woohoo:

See what I mean about the schools? :bang:

 

[Nova]

So it's ok for them to be bullied into changing their greeting away from Christmas? Some may say 'who bullied' them? You'd have to ask them, since it was a change after decades of doing it one way. Someone convinced them to change it, obviously.
Furthermore, if someone doesn't want to shop somewhere, that is their right to do so, that isn't bullying.
And furthermore, yet, knowing marketing as I kind of do, the retail effect was more from the "spirit" of Christmas (as the retailerss spent decades trying to make it: shopping, giving, etc) being lost when it became generic. More people buy gifts for Christmas than any other religious or secular holiday. Take "Christmas" out of the equation, and that mindset of shopping, buying, etc. is lost. They likely realized they shot themselves in the foot by changing their marketing away from what had been so profitable for decades. The commercialization of Christmas sucks, but it is no surprise that making it generic had a negative retail effect, undoing decades of marketing it as the "Christmas Shopping Season."

I'm not sure stores were "bullied" into saying "Happy Holidays." Most were probably just educated into a broader greeting.

Your analysis of the importance of buying to Christmas is very sharp, DK, and probably spot on. So why aren't you opposed to retailers using your sacred holiday in such a manner? Why don't you support greeters saying "Happy Holidays" instead of invoking the name of your God to serve Mammon?

 

[BarnGoddess]

To those of you who keep saying "except the government and public buildings and parks":

If our little town didn't put up the wreaths on the lightpoles and hold the annual Christmas Light Parade, didn't decorate the trees in the park and put out the lighted deer, both the mayor and city council would be recalled. There are secular and religious floats in the parade. Of course the churches do religion generally. Last year the mayor was Santa and closed the parade on his Harley. Santa comes to town on a fire truck and the kids line up just like the big city malls, only this is down on Main Street. The next little town uses the Community Center for their Christmas Trees on the Prairie each year. Groups and families can each decorate a tree for all to see. They're usually themed and absolutely gorgeous and very clever. STOP ! That's a government building......OOPS !!! Kill the fun. Might offend someone somewhere. If it does, no one here has heard about it.

 

[BhamMama]

Having to live on the other side, it gets old seriously. Not from individuals saying merry christmas per say, they can't look at me and tell I'm not, but from those that do presume that every other person on the planet is christian, I say...Shalom!

Shalom means all these things: Completeness, wholeness, health, peace, welfare, safety, soundness, tranquility, prosperity, perfectness, fullness, rest, harmony, the absence of agitation or discord. I'm bound to hit something for someone in all that.

My only gripe is with those that try to force my kids to celebrate or act surprised that a Jew has no clue what Jesus is suppose to mean to them. Seeing as how he's not a huge part of our religion my kids are a bit perplexed sometimes as to how they pee'd someone off without trying.

I also dislike christmas music at halloween and every day until the 'big' day, gift wrap at thanksgiving, people giving my kids candy canes with the express purpose of shoving the thoughts of his dying for their sins explained either verbally or with that cute little card tied on. Or people saying in a shocked voice in front of my kids...you don't put up a treeeee? Like *that* is the reason to celebrate or that by not I'm depriving my children of something.

I'm not real fond of getting christmas cards with christian themes or santa on them either. I won't display them and it upsets people. I accept the cards, but it is *my* home and I don't believe the same so why put them up? I never give cards either. We choose to celebrate two very different holidays in two very different ways. I never understood the reasonings behind a slip of a card only on a holiday, mostly to people you never speak to otherwise.

So I do understand some of the frustrations. To those of us who are not christian, it does feel like it is being shoved down our throats, by others, sometimes even those you know and love and stores. When was the last time you had to listen to the dreidel song 50 times in one week just to go buy toilet paper or food? (I say know and love because my aunt insist on sending me those fwd emails...you know...jesus died for you, prove you are this and such and send them on)

Vent over

I just spent 2.5 hours listening to Christmas music while out buying cleaning supplies, art supplies and even in the book store.

Now this comes from my 85 year old grandmother, so take it in the spirit in which it is meant...funny. She hasn't a mean bone in her body...but after all this today she said "What, are they afraid people are going to forget why they are here shopping?" To all the music that is