It's Christmas once again at Wal-Mart

[IrishMist]

Nope, it's the Jews and the Athiests who caused this anti-Christmas mess I just betcha, so they are the whiniest! And the gays, too! (Is this really a road you wanna go down?)

What anti-Christmas mess?? No one is trying to cancel Christmas, DK.

 

[Dark Knight]

What anti-Christmas mess?? No one is trying to cancel Christmas, DK.

I dunno about that. When school's won't allow kids to even bring in red and green cookies for parties as they MIGHT be construed as Christmas cookies, it's taking it rather far. It's a matter of what's next. No displays in the front yard or window in case a non-Christian drives by? A child should have the freedom OF religion to bring whatever they want to school. And red and green cookies aren't even religious! It's how far it is gone that is alarming. As much as I hate the commercialization of Christmas, it's nice to at least see retailers no be so worried about the word Christmas. And some items still won't be labeled Christmas items, the article said, just Holiday. But a Christmas tree is a Christmas tree, lol! That was just being silly.

 

[SadieMae]

It's people like you and Linas and other who have taken it beyond this, though, to where it has become Freedom FROM Religion instead of Freedom OF Religion, and even some Federal Judges have called these efforts "tiresome" because they are so far reaching. We have a right to express our beliefs in the public arena, but it's hard to sympathise with your point of view when some people like Linas cannot even stand to be told Merry Christmas or God Bless You. That's intolerance every bit as much as what believers are being accused of. Hide it all you want, but that attitide is very much intolerant. I, like others have said, am not offended when someone wishes me Happy Hannukah. That makes us far more tolerant of others beliefs, now doesn't it. Now, don't go around stealing the baby Jesus from our manger scenes or I'll have to smite ya! :slap:

I don't usually jump into threads about religion, but I have to say I agree with your view. Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukhah, Happy Kwaanza, God Bless, Allah be with you, or whatever I'm greeted with, it's not what they say, it's what they mean by the greeting. They are wishing me cheer, peace and goodwill. I don't find that offensive. We don't live in country where other religious beliefs are not allowed or tolerated. This country was built on the foundation of embracing other cultures and views that may not be the same as our own and mixing it up. That's why we celebrate Christmas, Hannukah, Kwanzaa, etc.

 

[IrishMist]

I dunno about that. When school's won't allow kids to even bring in red and green cookies for parties as they MIGHT be construed as Christmas cookies, it's taking it rather far. It's a matter of what's next. No displays in the front yard or window in case a non-Christian drives by? A child should have the freedom OF religion to bring whatever they want to school. And red and green cookies aren't even religious! It's how far it is gone that is alarming. As much as I hate the commercialization of Christmas, it's nice to at least see retailers no be so worried about the word Christmas. And some items still won't be labeled Christmas items, the article said, just Holiday. But a Christmas tree is a Christmas tree, lol! That was just being silly.

The cookie thing was two years ago, and sounds more like the district was trying to err on the safe side. I don't believe there was evil intent there. I grant you, they did go too far, and they fixed it even before the lawsuit was filed. But why can't they celebrate "Holidays" or have a "winter celebration", and do the religious stuff at home and at church? Hanukkah has been around a lot longer than Christmas, how do you think those kids feel?

I know you don't have children, but would you feel comfortable with your child receiving pencils with "Allah loves you" or miniature menorahs? What about pencils that say "There is no God." Would you want your child to bring home any of that from school?

And what was just being silly? The Christmas tree is a Christmas tree thing?

 

[SadieMae]

The cookie thing was two years ago, and sounds more like the district was trying to err on the safe side. I don't believe there was evil intent there. I grant you, they did go too far, and they fixed it even before the lawsuit was filed. But why can't they celebrate "Holidays" or have a "winter celebration", and do the religious stuff at home and at church? Hanukkah has been around a lot longer than Christmas, how do you think those kids feel?

I know you don't have children, but would you feel comfortable with your child receiving pencils with "Allah loves you" or miniature menorahs? What about pencils that say "There is no God." Would you want your child to bring home any of that from school?

And what was just being silly? The Christmas tree is a Christmas tree thing?

I DO have children. Those items would not be offensive to me or my family because I teach them to be tolerant, respectful and understanding of others who are different than they are. It's about sharing our cultures/religions/ethnicity. I mean this is AMERICA! Attitudes like that remind me of "how would you feel if your white daughter brought home a black boyfriend". That's how horrible and closed minded your post sounds to me.
Anyways, I'm sure we've all gotten gifts we had absolutely no use for, but graciously accepted so we didn't hurt the gift givers feelings.
Darn it...I knew I should have stayed out of this thread!! :doh:

 

[natasha-cupcake]

I know you don't have children, but would you feel comfortable with your child receiving pencils with "Allah loves you" or miniature menorahs? What about pencils that say "There is no God." Would you want your child to bring home any of that from school?

Actually, my kids DO come home from (public) school with plastic menorahs, folded paper dreidels and colorful worksheets detailing Kwanzaa and Hannukah celebrations. Never, ever have they brought home any material whatsoever, that speaks of Christmas or Christian traditions. On some levels, I find that pretty offensive.

I don't really have a problem with schools teaching the cultural differences between different religions. I just think they should include all major religions. Even though I find the exclusion of Christianity or Christmas in the school's holiday curriculum to be offensive, I say nothing to my children about my feelings. In the name of tolerance, I try to focus on the fact that they are learning information that will help them develop into considerate adults who are tolerant and inclusive to people of different faiths.

For the record, I am vehemently opposed to public schools PROMOTING religion in any form. Religion belongs in the home, the church, the temple or synagogue, and the shrine. I have Jewish friends who send me Christmas cards. I send them Happy Hannukah cards. I wish them peace and serenity on Yom Kippur. If I had Muslim friends, I'd take some time to learn about their holidays and would offer them the appropriate sentiments. I certainly wouldn't about anyone else's celebration or make a big deal out of someone making a few well meaning or innocuous assumptions about my beliefs. That's just tacky and mean spirited, in my opinion.

 

[SadieMae]

Actually, my kids DO come home from (public) school with plastic menorahs, folded paper dreidels and colorful worksheets detailing Kwanzaa and Hannukah celebrations. Never, ever have they brought home any material whatsoever, that speaks of Christmas or Christian traditions. On some levels, I find that pretty offensive.

I don't really have a problem with schools teaching the cultural differences between different religions. I just think they should include all major religions. Even though I find the exclusion of Christianity or Christmas in the school's holiday curriculum to be offensive, I say nothing to my children about my feelings. In the name of tolerance, I try to focus on the fact that they are learning information that will help them develop into considerate adults who are tolerant and inclusive to people of different faiths.

For the record, I am vehemently opposed to public schools PROMOTING religion in any form. Religion belongs in the home, the church, the temple or synagogue, and the shrine. I have Jewish friends who send me Christmas cards. I send them Happy Hannukah cards. I wish them peace and serenity on Yom Kippur. If I had Muslim friends, I'd take some time to learn about their holidays and would offer them the appropriate sentiments. I certaintly wouldn't about anyone else's celebration or make a big deal out of someone making a few well meaning or innocuous assumptions about my beliefs. That's just tacky and mean spirited, in my opinion.

I so agree with you! Why no Christmas celebration when they have the others, I don't understand that?

 

[julianne]

I don't usually jump into threads about religion, but I have to say I agree with your view. Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukhah, Happy Kwaanza, God Bless, Allah be with you, or whatever I'm greeted with, it's not what they say, it's what they mean by the greeting. They are wishing me cheer, peace and goodwill. I don't find that offensive. We don't live in country where other religious beliefs are not allowed or tolerated. This country was built on the foundation of embracing other cultures and views that may not be the same as our own and mixing it up. That's why we celebrate Christmas, Hannukah, Kwanzaa, etc.

Very good post, SadieMae. I agree---it's the goodwill, happiness and cheer that a person is trying to CONVEY to me whenever I am told "Merry Christmas", "Happy Kwanzaa" or "Happy Hannukah".

I'm not a religious person, but I would never take offense to someone wishing me Merry Christmas. The world is a sick, scary place these days with the abundance of mans inhumanity to man, so when when good wishes, cheer and merriment are offered my way in the form of a greeting, I don't pick apart the wording of the greeting simply because I am not Christian---the goodwill part is so much more important to me.

There will always be people with their panties in a bunch. You can't please everybody. Telling someone "Merry Christmas" is not akin to saying "Jesus lived and died for your sins, if you don't repent now you will go to Hell". It's saying Merry Christmas, pure and simple. Telling someone "Happy Hannukah" isn't akin to saying "Christmas is ". Telling someone "Allah be with you" to a Christian isn't akin to saying "There was no Jesus". But people want to make mountains out of molehills, the only problem is that there isn't a molehill there to make a mountain out of. I say, accept the goodwill and good wishes from our fellow man. Does the words used really matter?

I am EXTREMELY tolerant of different faiths, religions, beliefs, races, creeds and nationalities. We all bleed red. We're all in this game of life together....from me a 30-something suburban Mom who still isn't necessarily grounded in her beliefs, to a Jewish 89 year old man, to an 18 year old atheist, to a 50 year old Buddhist woman, and on and on. We are all one.

 

[SadieMae]

Julianne...you have soooo got it right!!!

 

[PaperDoll]

I was thinking that, too, when earlier in this thread I read:

"I don't hear others complaining about Budda (sic) or some other make shift god."


Some take Buddha as seriously as Christians take their God...

Yeah, it was me who said that and it's true.. People do take their Buddha seriously and yet, once again, I don't hear people complaining about that religion. When I go into a Oriential eatery or a nail salon to get my nails done, I see their Buddha display with the fresh fruits sitting about him while he's sitting in his little make shift shrine. Do I complain? NO! Do I get offended? NO.. Do I take my business elsewhere? NO.. WHY? because they have their right to serve what god they want, just like I have my right to serve the God I want... Their little display doesn't effect me because I don't believe in their way of religion. It doesn't effect me...

 

[PaperDoll]

I don't see why you are only jumping on Narla, and not the person who said Buddha is a make-shift God.

Why is one ok, and not the other?

Me again.. my bad :slap:

 

[SadieMae]

Yeah, it was me who said that and it's true.. People do take their Buddha seriously and yet, once again, I don't hear people complaining about that religion. When I go into a Oriential eatery or a nail salon to get my nails done, I see their Buddha display with the fresh fruits sitting about him while he's sitting in his little make shift shrine. Do I complain? NO! Do I get offended? NO.. Do I take my business elsewhere? NO.. WHY? because they have their right to serve what god they want, just like I have my right to serve the God I want... Their little display doesn't effect me because I don't believe in their way of religion. It doesn't effect me...

I would have mentioned Buddah in my posts too...but I don't know what greeting they use....

 

[PaperDoll]

It's people like you and Linas and other who have taken it beyond this, though, to where it has become Freedom FROM Religion instead of Freedom OF Religion, and even some Federal Judges have called these efforts "tiresome" because they are so far reaching. We have a right to express our beliefs in the public arena, but it's hard to sympathise with your point of view when some people like Linas cannot even stand to be told Merry Christmas or God Bless You. That's intolerance every bit as much as what believers are being accused of. Hide it all you want, but that attitide is very much intolerant. I, like others have said, am not offended when someone wishes me Happy Hannukah. That makes us far more tolerant of others beliefs, now doesn't it. Now, don't go around stealing the baby Jesus from our manger scenes or I'll have to smite ya! :slap:

You go DK :blowkiss: Well put.. very well put... :clap: :clap:

 

[PaperDoll]

I dunno about that. When school's won't allow kids to even bring in red and green cookies for parties as they MIGHT be construed as Christmas cookies, it's taking it rather far. It's a matter of what's next. No displays in the front yard or window in case a non-Christian drives by? A child should have the freedom OF religion to bring whatever they want to school. And red and green cookies aren't even religious! It's how far it is gone that is alarming. As much as I hate the commercialization of Christmas, it's nice to at least see retailers no be so worried about the word Christmas. And some items still won't be labeled Christmas items, the article said, just Holiday. But a Christmas tree is a Christmas tree, lol! That was just being silly.

:blowkiss: :dance: :blowkiss: :dance:

 

[PaperDoll]

I would have mentioned Buddah in my posts too...but I don't know what greeting they use....

hehe :blowkiss: I'm getting a lot of heat from that one and I don't care...

 

[LinasK]

You go DK :blowkiss: Well put.. very well put... :clap: :clap:

Since you have quoted DK's post so that I have to see it, people should have freedom FROM religion if they so desire. That's why we have a secular government and you are not taking into account the feelings of atheists and agnostics. Religion or lack thereof is a private matter that belongs in the home and houses of worship.

 

[Dark Knight]

Since you have quoted DK's post so that I have to see it, people should have freedom FROM religion if they so desire. That's why we have a secular government and you are not taking into account the feelings of atheists and agnostics. Religion or lack thereof is a private matter that belongs in the home and houses of worship.

If it interferes with someone's freedom OF religion, you have no Constitutional right to freedom FROM religion. Only freedom OF religion is mentioned in the Constitution. You cannot force worship into homes and churches. The fact that you want to shows your intolerance, and doesn't help your "cause" any.

And you know darn well you read my posts anyways! :slap:

 

[julianne]

Yeah, it was me who said that and it's true.. People do take their Buddha seriously and yet, once again, I don't hear people complaining about that religion. When I go into a Oriential eatery or a nail salon to get my nails done, I see their Buddha display with the fresh fruits sitting about him while he's sitting in his little make shift shrine. Do I complain? NO! Do I get offended? NO.. Do I take my business elsewhere? NO.. WHY? because they have their right to serve what god they want, just like I have my right to serve the God I want... Their little display doesn't effect me because I don't believe in their way of religion. It doesn't effect me...

I have a feeling that some people would be offended within taking the first 10 steps into my home, and it honestly never even occurred to me until just this very minute. From walking in my front door, you can see 3 large wrought iron scrolled crosses on my wall, a big buddha in the center of my occasional table, and a large framed mandala, LOL.

PaperDoll, I love your siggy pics...always so sexy!!

SadieMae, thanks--we think alike. Hopefully, one day in the future, hopefully in my lifetime (this one anyway, LOL) everyone will learn to be tolerant of everyone and evolve enough to the point that we can all bask in the realization of just how trivial humans USED to be.

 

[Ntegrity]

If it interferes with someone's freedom OF religion, you have no Constitutional right to freedom FROM religion. Only freedom OF religion is mentioned in the Constitution. You cannot force worship into homes and churches. The fact that you want to shows your intolerance, and doesn't help your "cause" any.

And you know darn well you read my posts anyways! :slap:

You da man, DK!!! :blowkiss:

 

[IrishMist]

I DO have children. Those items would not be offensive to me or my family because I teach them to be tolerant, respectful and understanding of others who are different than they are. It's about sharing our cultures/religions/ethnicity. I mean this is AMERICA! Attitudes like that remind me of "how would you feel if your white daughter brought home a black boyfriend". That's how horrible and closed minded your post sounds to me.
Anyways, I'm sure we've all gotten gifts we had absolutely no use for, but graciously accepted so we didn't hurt the gift givers feelings.
Darn it...I knew I should have stayed out of this thread!! :doh:

I taught my children to be tolerant and respectful, too. But I don't think the elementary school is the place to be handing out religious items.

The point I was trying to make to DK- and I didn't do it very well- knowing the deep convictions that he has, how would he feel if his children brought home these items from school. I was trying to get him to see the other side of the coin, that's all.

All of this relates to a school district in Texas that thought they needed to ban green and red Christmas cookies a few years back.