It's Christmas once again at Wal-Mart

[Dark Knight]

...ahhh, this is key, this is the sentence I was looking for from this speech...

"...where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials..."

Ntegrity, you flunked the test...What did I just say....As far as I am concerned...Every private store in the nation can have Chrismas decorations coming out of their proverbial asses.... Every private gas station, retaurant, PRIVATE VENUE... Thousands and thousands of places...

You just cannot proselytize for Christmas or any other religious holiday, in a public venue...like a public park, school, or government building...

What are you not understanding about this....It's to say that you "have to whisper about Christmas"... You just can't put up a sign that says "Jesus loves you" in a courthouse...

My goodness you're a pottymouth, lol! You used similar language in the JBR forum, I noticed, as well! Tsk tsk. Wanna borrow my rosary when I'm done with it?

 

[cappuccina]

...superficial, i.e., the things that do not matter, when you are trying to argue with me, but do not deal very well with debating anything substantial...

Go ahead and criticize me for some bad language, be my guest...but realize then that I could decide to criticize you for being adolescent and xenophobic...

(Your Rosary will be worn out, by the time you are done with it, honey...I'll have to get my own... Actually, my Eastern Orthodox relatives use worry beads as a combination rosary-type thing and stress reliever...I have a beautiful string of them from my Grandfather; they are North African, probably Moroccan...He grew up in the Caucausus mountains, and they would trade with the nomads that came through...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Four_Kombologia.jpg )

 

[IrishMist]

For an easy search, try aclj.org.

I'm sorry, Ntegrity, I can't find it! I even put Massachusetts into the search box, and got 61 articles, but not the one I'm looking for! Maybe I'm rushing too much, as I have to get my day started soon... any way you could post some links for me? Or I can look again tonight.

 

[Ntegrity]

I'm sorry, Ntegrity, I can't find it! I even put Massachusetts into the search box, and got 61 articles, but not the one I'm looking for! Maybe I'm rushing too much, as I have to get my day started soon... any way you could post some links for me? Or I can look again tonight.

Sorry, I should've told you to search the site on "Christmas" and you'll get the articles. :blushing:

 

[IrishMist]

Sorry, I should've told you to search the site on "Christmas" and you'll get the articles. :blushing:

Ah! That 'splains it. Thanks. I'll look tonight after work.

 

[deanws]

My goodness you're a pottymouth, lol! You used similar language in the JBR forum, I noticed, as well! Tsk tsk. Wanna borrow my rosary when I'm done with it?

I think you will need them yourself.....being so judgemental of others.............

 

[windovervocalcords]

"One of my co-workers and I are on thin ice during this season. She's Christian, the kind that goes to church every week, but still doesn't know that the seven deadly sins are although she regularly commits two.

She only knows the major points of Christianity she tells me. That's why she goes to church. And there is that point, that Catholics and catholicism aren't really Christian and Christianity. I guess the seven sins aren't as sinful in her church.

But like many Christians, she feels the need to have everyone celebrate Christmas and spent most of last December asking why. Why didn't I celebrate Christmas. At first I explained I wasn't Christian. She still asked why. Then she asked why I didn't celebrate Christmas. I again explained that I wasn't Christian and I had my own holy days that I celebrated and that most of the people in the country of my origin didn't celebrate Christmas either. She still asked why.

One of the problems with many programs celebrating Christmas is that they mislead viewers into thinking that everyone everywhere celebrates Christmas and awaits Santa Claus. This simply isn't true. That is a Christian fallacy perpetrated by a Christian society even if there is supposed to be a separation of church and state.

I don't celebrate Christmas not because I do not believe in Jesus and I do not celebrate Jewish holidays not because I do not believe in Moses and I do not celebrate Hindu or Muslim holy days not because I am not believe that those prophets of God existed. I do not celebrate the holy days of other religions because I follow another religion and that is supposed to be a part of my right to religious freedom.

As much fun as people are making of the PC-ness of the more neutral greeting of "Happy Holidays," it does recognize that some people are like me and do not celebrate certain religious holidays and holy days and we have that right and people should be more sensitive and respectful."
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/12/11/230145.php

 

[Ntegrity]

This may surprise you, but I absolutely agree with your post. We should all respect each other's religious preferences and not be intentionally offensive. My objection is when people are overly sensitive to someone saying "God bless you" or "Merry Christmas" when only good is intended. I would never say those things to someone I thought would be offended by them!

 

[windovervocalcords]

This may surprise you, but I absolutely agree with your post. We should all respect each other's religious preferences and not be intentionally offensive. My objection is when people are overly sensitive to someone saying "God bless you" or "Merry Christmas" when only good is intended. I would never say those things to someone I thought would be offended by them!

Personally, I have no problem with someone saying Merry Christmas to me or saying it myself to someone. Obviously, I will not do that to my Christian co-worker who is rightfully upset by having her beliefs and wishes ignored. God bless you doesn't bother me, and I am not a "God Gal". But other people feel differently. If only good is intended then it makes sense IMO to adjust your greeting on a case by case basis and not be automatic about it.

"If I know that the person I am speaking to is a Christian, I will of course say "Merry Christmas", but I might also say "Happy Thanksgiving", Happy New Year" or even (gasp) "Happy Holidays". I don't always say the same thing. I am not of one mind. Just because I say "Happy Holidays' does not mean I am less Christian, it just means that, hey, maybe I won't see this person until after new years, so I want to cover all bases.
So Wal-Mart: Go to town. I don't care. You and the other mega-retailers can battle it out over who will be "most Christian", but while you are busy reciting the lords prayer at the checkout, and giving communion at customer service, remember that many of us could care less, and that those who are most secure in their faith are those who least have to shout it from the rooftops."
http://alexrosenleaf.blogspot.com/2006/11/wal-mart-we-are-more-christian-than.html

 

[windovervocalcords]

Well, she should certainly NOT be harassed. That is wrong and is also incredibly illegal. If the workplace is allowing harassment to happen, they should be held liable--ESPECIALLY when it is due to one's religious beliefs. There is a federal law against that and she is sitting on a big, fat lawsuit. Seriously, if it is indeed harassment, based on her religious beliefs, she should sue the pants off the employer and teach them a lesson. Has she ever filed a formal complaint with the EEOC regarding this? Or, even on a lesser level, has she ever filed a complaint with the Human Resources department? If not, why don't you encourage her to do so? If it was my friend and coworker being harassed, for ANY reason, but ESPECIALLY for one such as this, I would stand beside her and support her and help her in any legal pursuits to see that this stops.

We have less than ten people in our office. Everyone wears more than one hat. There really isn't much of an HR department and the HR person is on the side of the Christmas crowd.

My Christian co-worker who does not celebrate Christmas is not a fan of the ACLU. I don't think she wants to make any bigger deal out of it than it is. Too exhausting.

 

[deanws]

This may surprise you, but I absolutely agree with your post. We should all respect each other's religious preferences and not be intentionally offensive. My objection is when people are overly sensitive to someone saying "God bless you" or "Merry Christmas" when only good is intended. I would never say those things to someone I thought would be offended by them!

I agree with her also. I think someone acting pushy about their religion is rude! Once the subject has been discussed, it is time to move along. I think Wind's co-worker is not respecting her or her feelings.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I agree with her also. I think someone acting pushy about their religion is rude! Once the subject has been discussed, it is time to move along. I think Wind's co-worker is not respecting her or her feelings.

And it is somewhat of a "groupthink" situation. The rest of the office work group does not get it that there are two of us who do not celebrate Christmas. I am quiet about my beliefs. When I am able, I usually say, why not just respect her feelings.

My friend has to tell them every year the same things. It's an unconscious form of passive aggression in my opinion.

 

[JBean]

I am Catholic and went to a predominantly Jewish school when I was growing up. Maybe 2 to 3 Catholics and Christians to 25 Jewish per classroom.

We sang Channukah Songs and Christmas Songs.We just celebrated it all in the classroom. We didn't say Happy Holidays, we said Merry Christmas and Happy Channukah. We drew pictures of dreidels and Santa Claus. We decorated Christmas Trees and lit menorahs. We made red and green cookies and blue and silver cookies. It was great, to tell you the truth.I learned a lot about a different tradition. We all just learned about each other.

So, for me it is all about the spirit of the season. I don't care if someone says Happy Channukah to me because they are expressing joy over their holiday.I welcome their wish and appreciate it.
I say Merry Christmas because that's what I know.I am floored at the offense so many take over a well wish. It's truly discouraging. The stores are only about marketing, so I couldn't care less what they say or do, because the position of Walmart doesn't impact my relationship with the holidays.I am solid in my holiday and I am not offended by much that goes on, because it is inconsequential to my holiday spirit.Nor am I offended by the holiday party at work or anything else that may be geared heavily towards one holiday or another.
I am not a sensitive person, by that I mean it takes a lot to upset me or ruffle my feathers. So, if anyone said Happy Anything to me, I appreciate where they are coming from and never take offense to what is behind their message.
I just couldn't imagine taking the message of Merry Christmas in the stores as a personal affront to my choice of religions. I just cannot understand how and why so many can be offended by the phrase Merry Christmas.
My relationship with Christmas is personal and special. It has nothing to do with what the rest of the world does.

 

[Ntegrity]

WOVC, when you first mentioned this situation I made an ASSumption that you both worked for a large corporation. Now that I've learned it's a small office and EVERYONE there already knows how you two feel, I find this behavior reprehensible.

Unfortunately, a company that small (less than 15) isn't covered by Title VII of the Civil Rights Act which would ordinarily protect employees from that kind of harassment. I guess I'd be updating my resume and finding a company that has more regard for its employees.

 

[deanws]

I am Catholic and went to a predominantly Jewish school when I was growing up. Maybe 2 to 3 Catholics and Christians to 25 Jewish per classroom.

We sang Channukah Songs and Christmas Songs.We just celebrated it all in the classroom. We didn't say Happy Holidays, we said Merry Christmas and Happy Channukah. We drew pictures of dreidels and Santa Claus. We decorated Christmas Trees and lit menorahs. We made red and green cookies and blue and silver cookies. It was great, to tell you the truth.I learned a lot about a different tradition. We all just learned about each other.

So, for me it is all about the spirit of the season. I don't care if someone says Happy Channukah to me because they are expressing joy over their holiday.I welcome their wish and appreciate it.
I say Merry Christmas because that's what I know.I am floored at the offense so many take over a well wish. It's truly discouraging. The stores are only about marketing, so I couldn't care less what they say or do, because the position of Walmart doesn't impact my relationship with the holidays.I am solid in my holiday and I am not offended by much that goes on, because it is inconsequential to my holiday spirit.Nor am I offended by the holiday party at work or anything else that may be geared heavily towards one holiday or another.
I am not a sensitive person, by that I mean it takes a lot to upset me or ruffle my feathers. So, if anyone said Happy Anything to me, I appreciate where they are coming from and never take offense to what is behind their message.
I just couldn't imagine taking the message of Merry Christmas in the stores as a personal affront to my choice of religions. I just cannot understand how and why so many can be offended by the phrase Merry Christmas.
My relationship with Christmas is personal and special. It has nothing to do with what the rest of the world does.

Beautiful post JBean!

 

[windovervocalcords]

WOVC, when you first mentioned this situation I made an ASSumption that you both worked for a large corporation. Now that I've learned it's a small office and EVERYONE there already knows how you two feel, I find this behavior reprehensible.

Unfortunately, a company that small (less than 15) isn't covered by Title VII of the Civil Rights Act which would ordinarily protect employees from that kind of harassment. I guess I'd be updating my resume and finding a company that has more regard for its employees.

It's a small, rural community. Not much diversity and little economic opportunities. We have some of the better jobs in the county. No place to go with that resume.

 

[JBean]

Beautiful post JBean!

Well aren't you sweet.Thank you.
I think what does bother me is that instead of hearing "Merry Christmas"
many are hearing "Screw Your Holiday" and I just don't think that really is the message. JMHO of course!

 

[Peter Hamilton]

JBean--I second that--great post---I also went to a 50% Jewish School,a private school in Princeton, NJ---It was certainly a change from Connecticut, since in our town of 10,000, we had no Jewish people, and I had never heard of them until I entered private school at age 14---But you must have gone to a nicer school than I did--Boarding School was not a pleasant experience, most everyone disliked everyone else--We certainly didn't sing Christmas or Hannaka songs, religion was pretty much downplayed--We were there to strictly study our azzes off and we did, it was an intensely competitive atmosphere where 100% of us were accepted at a four year university---nobody talked about holidays, either Christian or Jewish---so all this talk here about complaining about holiday behavior by others seems very strange to me--I've always found the Christmas season to be a fantastic time of the year, whether it was at work, at home or at play

 

[PaperDoll]

JBean you are so right... It does sound like that...

Christmas has been around for so long and people all over the world has celebrated it. Saying Merry Christmas is very traditional as well as Happy Holidays...I don't mind either but I like Merry Christmas because that is what we are celebrating, CHRIST's birth, nothing more, nothing less...

 

[Peter Hamilton]

EDIT: When I said that "everyone disliked everyone else" I am not saying Jewish kids didn't like Christians or vice versa, only that nobody liked being at a boarding school for four years, so the tension was a little high at times lol