It's Christmas once again at Wal-Mart

[Details]

Yeah, its all those wiccans who want to dance around the solstice tree.

Good example - the wiccan holiday symbols will be protested by those who think they're satanic, etc.

One huge can of worms there. Best to just stay secular, with Christmas trees, no menorah, no nativity, and "Happy Holidays!"

 

[Nova]

I wonder if a new name could be made. Of course, if it was, I anticipate a bunch of people trying to get signs with "Merry Christmas" rather than "Winter Greetings (for example)" in the government buildings, alongside the Winter Tree, Winter red and green tinsel, Winter presents, etc. But still, everyone's house, businesses, churches, etc. could have their Merry Christmas signs up, and no longer tainted by association with a commercial, secular, and slightly pagan holiday.

Sounds good to me.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Sounds good to me.

This is the opening salvo of my official war on Christmas. Oh, not the real Christmas, mind you. Depending on what you believe, Christmas can be either a) the time to remember when God came to Earth in human form and sacrificed himself for us, or b) a holiday that combined a number of ancient solstice festivals and resurrection stories that each reflected elemental aspects of the human spirit.
I have no problem with Christmas in either form. Either way, it's a beautiful synthesis of what it means to be alive, of the way that human beings can learn to love both the creation and the Creator. It's a candle lit in the darkness of winter to preserve the light of soul. Actually, I love Christmas - that Christmas, the Christmas that lives in the heart.

It's the other Christmas I'm declaring war against - the political Christmas, the state-sponsored Christmas promoted by the government (and by that quasigovernmental agency called Fox News).

I'm declaring war on the Christmas that's used by demagogues like O'Reilly to divide people. I'm declaring war on the Christmas that has more to do with the principles of Karl Rove than it does with the principles of Jesus Christ. I'm declaring war on the Christmas of the haters, the bullies, the war-lovers, the shouters, the interrupters.

Christmas was designed to remind us of the One who refused to hate minorities, the One who found a lesson in the behavior of the Samaritan (from a despised sect of outsiders), who saved the prostitute's life, who said that the country's religious leaders didn't have a monopoly on the truth.

His Christmas, that Christmas, is a time to love those who are different, to accept them and learn from them - not a time to fan the flames of hatred to increase ratings or get more support for the Republican agenda. In the real spirit of Christmas, atheists and Muslims would be as welcome at the table - and on television - as the most devout Christian. That was His example. He would welcome those who, predictably, will argue that this entire piece - and Christmas in any form - is naïve and foolish. It doesn't matter. This war's for them, too.

I'm also declaring war against the corporate-sponsored Christmas, the Credit Card Christmas, the debt-amplifying and soul-killing Christmas. I'm declaring war on the Christmas that says you need to buy and consume to celebrate the holiday.
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/3713

 

[LinasK]

What a crock! Most of the whining is coming from a minority of Christians who feel threatened if their religious beliefs aren't privileged with special recognition by everyone in the culture. "Happy Holidays" isn't enough for them, because apparently their beliefs are so shallow they can't be maintained without impassioned support from the entire community.

What is offensive, Peter Hamilton, is a marketing ploy that assuages the petty resentment of the majority at the expense of being inclusive to all. What is offensive is the conservative right wing of this country and its official propaganda instrument, Fox News, that persists in cynical attempts to persuade frightened people that their lifestyles and values are in imminent danger from inclusive WalMart greetings (while ignoring the very real economic shifts that threaten us all).

I am neither Jewish nor atheist, and Christmas is a special time in our house. Individuals have every right to wish others a "Merry Christmas" (though we may rightfully question the thoughtfulness, sincerity and Christianity of a greeting to strangers that excludes non-Christians).

But campaigns to force companies to exclude minorities by reverting to a Christ-centric greeting should offend all of us. Tyranny of the majority is always offensive.

Excellent post Nova!!!:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[cappuccina]

...Your posts sum up my sentiments exactly...

 

[reb]

nova-- exactly. you would think an evergreen tree with lights and a star would be about as neutral and non-religious as you can get. besides, winter holidays have always been celebrated and then there's 'yuletide' (the winter solstice festival of germanic pagans) and all that.. that had absolutely nothing to do with a supposed guy named jesus's supposed birthday. that was something christians attached to it later on.

 

[Dark Knight]

ABC Radio is reporting that the Christmas trees have gone back up at Seattle Airport after the Rabbi said he wouldn't sue them. He said he didn't want the trees removed, he just wanted a Menorah added.

 

[Dark Knight]

Exactly, Mr Hamilton.......thats how its always been, and should stay.
There never was this whining, complaining, going on in all these years.
Everyone seemed so happy......I am so amazed about this bah humbug stuff that if turning up all over. Merry Christmas to you!

You and Peter are both right! :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[Dark Knight]

This was just sent to me via e-mail. It must have been written a few years ago, given the names mentioned:

​

‘Twas the month before Christmas​

When all through our land,​

Not a Christian was praying​

Nor taking a stand.​

​

Why? The PC Police had taken away,​

The reason for Christmas - no one could say.​

The children were told by their schools not to sing,​

About Shepherds and Wise Men and Angels and things.​

​

It might hurt people's feelings, the teachers would say​

December 25th is just a "Holiday".​

Yet the shoppers were ready with cash, checks and credit​

Pushing folks down to the floor just to get it!​

​

CDs from Madonna, an X BOX, an I-pod​

Something was changing, something quite odd!​

Retailers promoted Ramadan and Kwanzaa​

In hopes to sell books by Franken & Fonda.​

As Targets are hanging their trees upside down ​

At Lowe's the word Christmas was no where to be found.​

At K-Mart and Staples and Penny's and Sears​

You won't hear the word Christmas; it won't touch your ears.​

​

Inclusive, sensitive, Di-ver-si-ty​

Are words that were used to intimidate me.​

Now Daschle, Now Darden, Now Sharpton, Wolf Blitzen​

​

On Boxer, on Rather, on Kerry, on Clinton!​

​

At the top of the Senate, there arose such a clatter​

To eliminate Jesus, in all public matter.​

And we spoke not a word, as they took away our faith​

Forbidden to speak of salvation and grace​

​

The true Gift of Christmas was exchanged and discarded​

The reason for the season, stopped before it started.​

So as you celebrate "Winter Break" under your "Dream Tree"​

Sipping your Starbucks, listen to me.​

Choose your words carefully, choose what you say​

​

​

​

​

Shout MERRY CHRISTMAS, not Happy Holiday!​

 

[Marthatex]

I'm glad to hear that a Menorah display will be added to the airport in addition to the Christmas trees or displays.

What a logical, simple (and I hope legal) solution to the whole thing.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I'm glad to hear that a Menorah display will be added to the airport in addition to the Christmas trees or displays.

What a logical, simple (and I hope legal) solution to the whole thing.

Absolutely. And think of how many whines we would have saved it we had waited for the resolution of the story.

Happy Holidays--Merry Christmas- Happy Hannukah

 

[BhamMama]

I'm glad to hear that a Menorah display will be added to the airport in addition to the Christmas trees or displays.

What a logical, simple (and I hope legal) solution to the whole thing.

I'm not sure I agree that it's a good thing. So far we have avoided many public displays of faith and I think that's a good thing. It sorta cheapens it. Plus it makes us just as guilty as pushing our faith on others as some say Christians do everyone else. I, for one, certainly don't want to be accused of that. Our ceremonies have nothing to do with Christmas. I feel we should stay out of wanting to be included.

 

[Details]

I'm glad to hear that a Menorah display will be added to the airport in addition to the Christmas trees or displays.

What a logical, simple (and I hope legal) solution to the whole thing.

The menorah display isn't being added, not that I know of.

I think if they do, they will have to add a nativity, and open a huge can of worms. It's either all religions, or you have to set up some special state recognized religions, and you know we came here to get away from that. It needs to stay secular. Any ideas on a good secular jewish symbol? I was thinking about the blue lights that are generally used on jewish houses, maybe?

 

[Details]

I'm not sure I agree that it's a good thing. So far we have avoided many public displays of faith and I think that's a good thing. It sorta cheapens it. Plus it makes us just as guilty as pushing our faith on others as some say Christians do everyone else. I, for one, certainly don't want to be accused of that. Our ceremonies have nothing to do with Christmas. I feel we should stay out of wanting to be included.

Yeah, look what it's done to Christmas - it's no religious holiday anymore, not in a lot of ways.

 

[Marthatex]

I thought the Rabbi asked for a Mennorah to be displayed? At the beginning. Then some idiot decided to take all the Christmas trees down. Adding the Mennorah is inclusive, taking Christmas trees down was saying, "Our way or the highway..."

We are a pluralistic society; Christmas trees are not a religious symbol perse and the Mennorah is a symbol of religious freedom, actually.

I can't see the need for 15 or so Christmas trees in an airport - certainly there is room for other displays - Hannukah, Kawanza (sp)?, whatever; inclusivity should be the word for a public place; not exclusivity.

Evidently Sea-pac is going to work with the Rabbi next year to help decide on their Holiday displays.

 

[natasha-cupcake]

Marthatex, I agree with you. An airport is a big place and there is plenty of room for inclusive displays. I am a Catholic who manages to get to church on a semi-regular basis. Fundamentalist Christians do not speak for me and do not speak for the majority of Catholics. I don't consider a Menorrah or a Kwanzaa display to be excluding me from anything. I like to see Christmas trees (which are cultural, not religious, by the way) and Santa Claus in public places and I don't think anyone should be offended by those either. I do think that it's arrogant and unkind not to acknowledge other notable celebrations that occur during the Christmas season.

Nativity scenes belong on Church property and private property only, and not on any government agency property, in my opinion. Now, as far as retailers go, I think they do have the right to put religious symbols in their establishments but should obviously weigh their right to free expression with the need to keep customers of all faiths happy. Bottom line is that if I walk through an airport and see a Christmas tree display, followed by a beautiful menorrah, followed by a colorful Kwanzaa table, I feel happy that people care enough to be thoughtful, loving and joyful. That's what this season is all about, no matter who you believe in.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Marthatex, I agree with you. An airport is a big place and there is plenty of room for inclusive displays. I am a Catholic who manages to get to church on a semi-regular basis. Fundamentalist Christians do not speak for me and do not speak for the majority of Catholics. I don't consider a Menorrah or a Kwanzaa display to be excluding me from anything. I like to see Christmas trees (which are cultural, not religious, by the way) and Santa Claus in public places and I don't think anyone should be offended by those either. I do think that it's arrogant and unkind not to acknowledge other notable celebrations that occur during the Christmas season.

Nativity scenes belong on Church property and private property only, and not on any government agency property, in my opinion. Now, as far as retailers go, I think they do have the right to put religious symbols in their establishments but should obviously weigh their right to free expression with the need to keep customers of all faiths happy. Bottom line is that if I walk through an airport and see a Christmas tree display, followed by a beautiful menorrah, followed by a colorful Kwanzaa table, I feel happy that people care enough to be thoughtful, loving and joyful. That's what this season is all about, no matter who you believe in.

You express my sentiments exactly. Nice to hear from another secure spiritual practicioner who happens to be Catholic.

 

[Details]

I saw the other day, that the Supreme Court said Menorah's are not 'sufficiently religious' to make them a religious display (same decision as the one that said Christmas Trees are OK), so it sounds like they aren't as religious as I thought.

Watching House last night, I saw an interesting idea. They focused for a minute on a Christmas tree going up, and on one of the ornaments, was a menorah. Since Christmas trees are generic, why not call it a holiday tree, put ornaments and decorations of all holidays on it? Maybe one tree for each theme (colors of red and green with santa, colors of blue with menorah ornaments, colors of Kwanzaa, etc.), and the big tree in the middle with a bit of everything.

 

[Dark Knight]

I saw the other day, that the Supreme Court said Menorah's are not 'sufficiently religious' to make them a religious display (same decision as the one that said Christmas Trees are OK), so it sounds like they aren't as religious as I thought.

Watching House last night, I saw an interesting idea. They focused for a minute on a Christmas tree going up, and on one of the ornaments, was a menorah. Since Christmas trees are generic, why not call it a holiday tree, put ornaments and decorations of all holidays on it? Maybe one tree for each theme (colors of red and green with santa, colors of blue with menorah ornaments, colors of Kwanzaa, etc.), and the big tree in the middle with a bit of everything.

Speaking as a Catholic, my religious viewpoint has always been that a Christmas tree is religious in nature, not secular. The evergreen represents the everlasting life Jesus gives us, and the tree itself is a harbinger of the tree that Jesus was crucified on for our sins. So even though legally it is secular, for some Christians it isn't.

And Kwanzaa isn't even a religious holiday! It's a modern-day rip-off of Judaism/Hannukah with their own version of a menorah, etc. I always found the mimicking of Hannukah and the timing of it to be offensive. The founder could have chosen any number of ways to celebrate black history.

It's also offensive that the court called menorah's not sufficiently religious, and I have heard many Jewish people say the same thing. It represents a miracle of God, how could it not be religious????? :doh:

 

[BhamMama]

It's also offensive that the court called menorah's not sufficiently religious, and I have heard many Jewish people say the same thing. It represents a miracle of God, how could it not be religious????? :doh:

Really? I'm shocked! The Menorah is not only used just for Hanukkah but as a symbol of the Jewish faith to be "a light unto the nations" Isaiah 42:6. A reminder that we are to walk softly and be an example. "Not by might, not by power, but by My spirt" Zechariah 4:1-6. Of course it also stands for the miracle of one day of oil lasting 8 days. It's a tangible symbol of what G-d did for us. Hanukkah even means rededication! I agree, how is that not religious?