James Bisset / Shannan Gilbert connection

[observation]

Maybe that info being referred to is in the book?

Nope- not in the book. Just an FYI having read it and re-read the last few chapters last night. Hmm


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[dc20015]

BBM I've never heard this before. When/where was this reported?

She handed him the phone?? Why didn't he tell the 911 operator exactly where she was?? Why didn't he request an ambulance for her?? Did he just calmly hand the phone back to her??!

Do not recall him getting on the phone as part of the story either. Recall the story from Pak that she hid behind the sofa and he asked her if she'd seen Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (to reorient her I guess), but never her handing the phone to either one of them.

 

[observation]

I havent read the book but common sense tells us that he most likely turned on the lights to see what the awful smell was about. Common sense also tells us that you cant really go into a dark basement without finding some light source.

I suspect it was his way of writing the book and not wanting to admit he saw what he really saw.

This makes me wonder if the mystery caller who said something about "watching her rot" may have had the body in the basement until there was the perfect opportunity to take the body to the fields not far away.

For the Gilgo beach bodies I have always felt the killer had to have lived near there as a child. Thinking about it more that in order to know when the perfect time to go there to dump the body and not be seen they may have had to have the body stored nearby too.

So maybe it wasnt just a childhood home. Maybe the bodies were kept very close by too until dumping time.

The episode where Josh and Rachel parked right near the cross where the bodies were found at night showed us that cars do travel down that road even at night. The LISK killer may have been more local than I thought even during the killings and after the killings.

You would think LE would have found out if one of the main subjects homes was involved but it seems that LE may have not done a thorough job in the beginning and LISK had plenty of time to cleanup evidence by the time they got serious about this case.

In regard to the lighting in the basement and the smell. There was a house fire right in the vicinity of JB's home (up in flames) and JB ordered the drifter to turn off the breaker in the basement. This is when he noticed the awful odor. He said he could not wait to get out of there.


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[Neptune]

Yes it is well documented that there was a Drifter at the house. He even wrote a book about it. Go back and read all the discussions. The Drifter wrote about it in a book.

I can’t agree with you on this, ps149. Anyone can write pulp fiction that exploits a news story. That doesn’t make it credible documentation. Brewer may well have a “drifter” friend – but that doesn’t make him the person there that night. In fact the ad hoc book only seems to add more fiction to an already highly fabricated story told by the SCPD. Despite the two 911 calls (Coletti and Brennan) of a girl running scared and screaming for help, when SCPD arrived at Oak Beach that morning they didn’t bother to secure the front gate surveillance tapes. Shannan ran directly past the cameras (40°38'26.19"N 73°16'40.28"W – Bingmaps street view). There was a reason this incident was disregarded in May 2010. I spent years doing PR for a major company – so I know how media relations works. If that third person at Brewer’s was not important and he truly was a nobody “drifter”, his name would not have been so guardedly kept out of the press. His presence at the scene of what became a major news story is just as crucial as Brewer’s or Pak’s. As far as I know, 3rd guy’s name has never been disclosed and his presence that morning at Brewer's has barely been acknowledged – and what has been acknowledged was discounted for us. That’s significant to me.

I think it’s possible whoever was at Brewer’s got dressed, got in his vehicle to go home, took a right onto Anchor Way, and when he got to the intersection of Anchor and Hatch he realized the girl who got hysterical at Brewer’s was now in Brennan’s driveway. I think he knew what had made her hysterical at Brewer's and that's why he pulled her into his car. That intersection (40°38'20.36"N 73°16'37.47"W) is where Shannan’s jacket was found.

 

[fred&edna]

What's kind of goofy is that in 2011 someone posted on the (now defunct) LISK site - so take it for what it's worth - about going to see JB's home (it was on the market and they were considering buying it), then in April 2012 they shared the same post (with a little more info) here on WS. And, they talk about the smell of the whole house.

Here's a snip of the post:

A quite strange individual let me in the house, he appeared almost nervous (IMO), and he stated I am here to show the house for the owner. When I entered the house the utmost strongest odor of urine permeated throughout the ENTIRE house. The house was empty except for one back room where the man that let me in was definitely living. Clothes strewn about, TV on, lived in. But only that room. I was very creeped out, not even knowing where I was! Maybe he was the drifter. In his room was a young woman he claimed to be his girlfriend. He also wanted me to see all the kittens he had. Apparently they piss wherever they wanted in the house.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?163230-Joseph-Brewer&p=7769610#post7769610

 

[fred&edna]

I can’t agree with you on this, ps149. Anyone can write pulp fiction that exploits a news story. That doesn’t make it credible documentation. Brewer may well have a “drifter” friend – but that doesn’t make him the person there that night. In fact the ad hoc book only seems to add more fiction to an already highly fabricated story told by the SCPD. Despite the two 911 calls (Coletti and Brennan) of a girl running scared and screaming for help, when SCPD arrived at Oak Beach that morning they didn’t bother to secure the front gate surveillance tapes. Shannan ran directly past the cameras (40°38'26.19"N 73°16'40.28"W – Bingmaps street view). There was a reason this incident was disregarded in May 2010. I spent years doing PR for a major company – so I know how media relations works. If that third person at Brewer’s was not important and he truly was a nobody “drifter”, his name would not have been so guardedly kept out of the press. His presence at the scene of what became a major news story is just as crucial as Brewer’s or Pak’s. As far as I know, 3rd guy’s name has never been disclosed and his presence that morning at Brewer's has barely been acknowledged – and what has been acknowledged was discounted for us. That’s significant to me.

I think it’s possible whoever was at Brewer’s got dressed, got in his vehicle to go home, took a right onto Anchor Way, and when he got to the intersection of Anchor and Hatch he realized the girl who got hysterical at Brewer’s was now in Brennan’s driveway. I think he knew what had made her hysterical at Brewer's and that's why he pulled her into his car. That intersection (40°38'20.36"N 73°16'37.47"W) is where Shannan’s jacket was found.

I like this post... a lot!! ITA

 

[forensicsguy76]

I haven't ruled anyone out, known to us or not known to us. James Bissett is still on the table for me. That said, I wonder if he was involved in one or more murders of sex workers, including Shannan, it may have been "prudent" of him to choose women whom he believed would not have been missed if he was planning to kill them. Additionally, there are well off men who troll for less expensive sex workers. It's not uncommon from all I've read.

I would agree with you here. Even of the SK could afford high class call girls, he most likely prefer the lower class ones because they are easier targets and often not missed. This is especially true if this person is a Mission Serial killer who beleives that he is doing good by ridding the world of those he sees as unworthy.

 

[dc20015]

Right. Upscale sex workers would be more likely to be missed. Retaliation for losing a worker could be more of a risk because serious escort services have more resources. Or maybe going downscale is a turn on for certain customers. Who knows? I can't rule anyone out based on that. Also, I don't necessarily agree that CL/BP workers are the equivalent of yesterday's street walkers. Some may be, but I think the internet created a...shall we say...middle class of sex workers. As mentioned on the show these are girls who would never have walked the streets, but seeing how easy it is to make a buck by posting an ad and not having to have a pimp they try it. They're not living the glamourous life of an upscale escort, but they're not living the life like the lot lizards either.

 

[Super Sleuth]

From my understanding, serial killers do not feel remorse or sadness and it would be extremely rare and not of their nature to ever harm themselves, commit suicide. They do not care about much. This one seems to enjoy harassing and enjoys killing. I am not too sure he would go out like that.

However, look at someone like Israel Keys who killed himself after he was already caught. I'm not saying Bissett is LISK. I truely believe Shannan Gilbert has nothing to do with the GB4. But Bissett may have known he was going to be caught for something.

If if we had the suicide letter I think we would know a whole lot more. But SCPD doesn't want to share anything with anyone. I'm so glad the FBI is finally involved now.

 

[Super Sleuth]

I think it's important to point out that Bissett's has at least one wholesale (trade only) nursery and it's in Dix Hills located here 40°48'14.70"N 73°20'30.59"W.

That means many professional landscapers and contractors source their plant material from Bissett Nursery and have access to the burlap sacks and the burlap from the balled-and-burlapped trees.

Not for nothing. But can't someone just order burlap sacks online from anywhere in the nation? What's with these burlap sacks that we keep saying they're from Bissett? Do they say "Bissett" on them or something?

 

[Super Sleuth]

Not for nothing. But can't someone just order burlap sacks online from anywhere in the nation? What's with these burlap sacks that we keep saying they're from Bissett? Do they say "Bissett" on them or something?

Here's an example of a supplier right from the Bronx: http://www.ace-bag.com/burlap.html

 

[PositiveLight]

This is just a thought if there were human hunting clubs. It may be like "fight club". Maybe JB didn't kill himself but was killed because he was threatening to go to the police. He knew too much and was made an example of.

OR maybe SG was his only kill and couldn't live with himself? She was after all found in a different area of the Island and killed differently.
I've often wondered if there are groups like this. It wouldn't surprise me honestly.
The area most of the victims were found was desolate. Perfect area to have a hunt basically.
Another thing I've often wondered about SG is this: We only have the driver and the one man who supposedly hired her who said that there was only one man in the house that night. Maybe she was telling the truth about many people after her.
The driver could have been paid to keep his mouth shut.
The doctor that supposedly medicated her may very well have medicated her but with nefarious reasons. Maybe she was being chased into that swampy area by multiple people. That area is so dense that even if the cops did an initial search, they wouldn't see anyone out there.
There had to have been a VERY good reason SG ran into that area. Maybe she hoped she could get away from the men?
Otherwise she would have stayed on the road or close to it.
By the time the cops arrived, the other possible men could have easily left the area when SG freaked out. She wasn't going quietly. Maybe the other victims were told not to bring their phones on the call. The " John/Jane does" could very well be from a totally different area and brought by vehicle to the "hunt". Just a thought though.
But if there was such a club, they would use people who lived on the outer edges of society. Like prostitutes. The difference with SG is there were people that DID miss her immediately. The Johns were probably regulars and were probably building up trust with the victims before their last "call". By then the victims didn't feel nervous around the John and let down their guard. So if the John said not to bring their phone then they felt safe enough not bringing it.
JMOO and random thoughts. :thinking:

 

[AC_Lucky1]

Not for nothing. But can't someone just order burlap sacks online from anywhere in the nation? What's with these burlap sacks that we keep saying they're from Bissett? Do they say "Bissett" on them or something?

No one knows where they came from. It is just a theory that they could have come from Bisset Nursery. JB was said to be a customer of SG. Even if that is true, it doesn't necessarily connect him to the other victims.
One of my relatives is in the Nursery business and they use burlap to wrap the root balls after they dig the trees. I have heard "burlap sacks" being used a lot while reading through these threads, but "sacks" are not used by landscapers (at least I have never seen them used) They are sheets of burlap that come in different sizes. I have also read in many articles that they were "wrapped in burlap". That would make more sense to me assuming I believed the theory that JB, who owned a Nursery, was the SK.

 

[maddalena1]

Brilliant sleuthing and I sense that this is the key.

 

[maddalena1]

This is just a thought if there were human hunting clubs. It may be like "fight club". Maybe JB didn't kill himself but was killed

because he was threatening to go to the police. He knew too much and was made an example of.

OR maybe SG was his only kill and couldn't live with himself? She was after all found in a different area of the Island and killed differently.
I've often wondered if there are groups like this. It wouldn't surprise me honestly.
The area most of the victims were found was desolate. Perfect area to have a hunt basically.
Another thing I've often wondered about SG is this: We only have the driver and the one man who supposedly hired her who said that there was only one man in the house that night. Maybe she was telling the truth about many people after her.
The driver could have been paid to keep his mouth shut.
The doctor that supposedly medicated her may very well have medicated her but with nefarious reasons. Maybe she was being chased into that swampy area by multiple people. That area is so dense that even if the cops did an initial search, they wouldn't see anyone out there.
There had to have been a VERY good reason SG ran into that area. Maybe she hoped she could get away from the men?
Otherwise she would have stayed on the road or close to it.
By the time the cops arrived, the other possible men could have easily left the area when SG freaked out. She wasn't going quietly. Maybe the other victims were told not to bring their phones on the call. The " John/Jane does" could very well be from a totally different area and brought by vehicle to the "hunt". Just a thought though.
But if there was such a club, they would use people who lived on the outer edges of society. Like prostitutes. The difference with SG is there were people that DID miss her immediately. The Johns were probably regulars and were probably building up trust with the victims before their last "call". By then the victims didn't feel nervous around the John and let down their guard. So if the John said not to bring their phone then they felt safe enough not bringing it.
JMOO and random thoughts. :thinking:

Not sure of the players but you took the words right out of my heart.

 

[maddalena1]

Correct me if I am wrong, weren't slaves hunted during the Civil war period?

 

[Roy Batty]

Was Lanieri's name ever tossed around in the discussions/rumor mongering surrounding possible Bisset connection to any involvement in the Gilbert case?

 

[deedee21]

Was Lanieri's name ever tossed around in the discussions/rumor mongering surrounding possible Bisset connection to any involvement in the Gilbert case?

His suicide was the only thing mentioned.

 

[PositiveLight]

Correct me if I am wrong, weren't slaves hunted during the Civil war period?

I believe so. Especially if they were runaways. To make examples of.

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[browntabby1226]

I think this is a group of sick people not just one.There maybe a female (s) in the mix also i feel.I dont think it is a drug cartel even though drugs may be the bait.I think the group may have other groups within the US and who knows other countries.Look at some of the motorcycle chapters all over the world. I dont think its about money but about the kill.Maybe you only get in when invited by someone within the group.Is it about sex? maybe not thats how he lures them in and because they want the money it falls into place.Maybe they think its a hobby . My theory