James Kolar's New Book Will Blow the Lid off the JonBenet Ramsey Investigation

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I am only responding to posts about the case from this point forward. I won't be picked at or harassed for my beliefs about the case.
Moving on.

 

[Ausgirl]

Sometimes where there is smoke, there is just someone blowing it.

^ That's my new sig.

I have stated before - I was firmly RDI, for a time. As time has passed and I have had a chance to read and observe more, I became one of those non-RDi-but-don't-have-a-theory people.

If pressed, I'd say it was somebody who'd been in the house prior to the murder , who knew the house layout, and who'd come to know the Ramseys and their habits quite well, either directly or without their knowledge.

I do notice RDI's are flexible - until it comes to people who don't think the Ramseys did it. Well. I don't think they did. The end.

You know, there have been families who've lived for weeks, months, with somebody LIVING in their ceiling or walls... No joke. The stalker -moved IN- to their house and walked around touching all thier stuff while nobody was home. This stuff really happens. I am NOT for goodness' sake (NOT, to be REALLY clear) saying that's what I think happened to JonBenet, but I DO allow for the possibility of an obsession with the child, and somebody watching the family over a period of time, for an opportunity.

Anyways, I find it highly hypocritical that people can accuse Burke up and down this board however they damn please, but other non-suspects are off the menu. I really needed to say that, as it gets a bit frustrating.

I have to agree, however, because it's just right there in history all over the place that kids can kill, and they do it all the time. As sad as that is.

BUT I also have to agree that the convoluted and just disgustingly degrading staging of the crime does not come across at all to me as something a parent would do, in trying to protect either themselves or another child. JonBenet was --loved-- in that house. Who could love that tiny girl and then let her body be found as it was, garrotted and violated?

The Ramseys are not perfect people, and I am betting they were not perfect parents. But I have only the most profound doubt that they'd treat the body of their daughter that way, for any reason.

I hope this crime is truly and 100% solved some day. I fear it won't be any day soon. But no matter what any of us believe and how much or how loudly or how strongly we disagree on our theories, I am supposing that we're here because of our grief for that beautiful child, and our outrage over her murder.

Sometimes I just have to take a step back and remember that. We're all here, because we all care. We have that much in common.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

What I find most troubling about any BDI theory is that if you believe he was molesting JBR then who killed her? The parents? Upon finding JBR assaulted by BR They kill her to cover it up? What is the most troubling is the death. That JR would garrote his child is really hard to believe.. That PR would do it? No way. That BR would do it, No not for me.

So what happened that this child went to be Christmas night and ends up dead at the hands of her family?

IT makes no sense.. The whole PR was losing control does not work. That would have been a beating and heat of passion killing. That is not what this was. That she was killed over Bedwetting? Equally erroneous.

So give me the motive for this family putting to death one of it's own with no prior abuse history, in their house on Christmas night.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

^ That's my new sig.

I have stated before - I was firmly RDI, for a time. As time has passed and I have had a chance to read and observe more, I became one of those non-RDi-but-don't-have-a-theory people.

If pressed, I'd say it was somebody who'd been in the house prior to the murder , who knew the house layout, and who'd come to know the Ramseys and their habits quite well, either directly or without their knowledge.

I do notice RDI's are flexible - until it comes to people who don't think the Ramseys did it. Well. I don't think they did. The end.

You know, there have been families who've lived for weeks, months, with somebody LIVING in their ceiling or walls... No joke. The stalker -moved IN- to their house and walked around touching all thier stuff while nobody was home. This stuff really happens. I am NOT for goodness' sake (NOT, to be REALLY clear) saying that's what I think happened to JonBenet, but I DO allow for the possibility of an obsession with the child, and somebody watching the family over a period of time, for an opportunity.

Anyways, I find it highly hypocritical that people can accuse Burke up and down this board however they damn please, but other non-suspects are off the menu. I really needed to say that, as it gets a bit frustrating.

I have to agree, however, because it's just right there in history all over the place that kids can kill, and they do it all the time. As sad as that is.

BUT I also have to agree that the convoluted and just disgustingly degrading staging of the crime does not come across at all to me as something a parent would do, in trying to protect either themselves or another child. JonBenet was --loved-- in that house. Who could love that tiny girl and then let her body be found as it was, garrotted and violated?

The Ramseys are not perfect people, and I am betting they were not perfect parents. But I have only the most profound doubt that they'd treat the body of their daughter that way, for any reason.

I hope this crime is truly and 100% solved some day. I fear it won't be any day soon. But no matter what any of us believe and how much or how loudly or how strongly we disagree on our theories, I am supposing that we're here because of our grief for that beautiful child, and our outrage over her murder.

Sometimes I just have to take a step back and remember that. We're all here, because we all care. We have that much in common.

BBM, that is a big issue. If they had the ability to treat her like that the other option of taking and getting rid of her would have been an easier option and fit more with the kidnapping. To say they were staging a kidnapping and then left the body there and that was their cover up is ludicrous. They are not dumb people. They know then that the police are going to find the body in their house.

It just makes no sense to me.

I agree completely on your sentiments about BR.

 

[renah]

Arrgh. Just when

Nevermind.

Could someone point me to the How to Use the Ignore button, please.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Arrgh. Just when

Nevermind.

Could someone point me to the How to Use the Ignore button, please.

Here's a link.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9818252&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - How to put a poster on ignore[/ame]

 

[otg]

Arrgh. Just when

Nevermind.

Could someone point me to the How to Use the Ignore button, please.

:laugh: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221474"]How to put a poster on ignore - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Chelly]

:laugh: How to put a poster on ignore - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Well this assuredly tidies things up. My blood pressure is lowering as I type.

 

[Nom de plume]

:laugh: How to put a poster on ignore - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Welcome Home OTG!!

 

[Nom de plume]

^ That's my new sig.

I have stated before - I was firmly RDI, for a time. As time has passed and I have had a chance to read and observe more, I became one of those non-RDi-but-don't-have-a-theory people.

If pressed, I'd say it was somebody who'd been in the house prior to the murder , who knew the house layout, and who'd come to know the Ramseys and their habits quite well, either directly or without their knowledge.

I do notice RDI's are flexible - until it comes to people who don't think the Ramseys did it. Well. I don't think they did. The end.

You know, there have been families who've lived for weeks, months, with somebody LIVING in their ceiling or walls... No joke. The stalker -moved IN- to their house and walked around touching all thier stuff while nobody was home. This stuff really happens. I am NOT for goodness' sake (NOT, to be REALLY clear) saying that's what I think happened to JonBenet, but I DO allow for the possibility of an obsession with the child, and somebody watching the family over a period of time, for an opportunity.

Anyways, I find it highly hypocritical that people can accuse Burke up and down this board however they damn please, but other non-suspects are off the menu. I really needed to say that, as it gets a bit frustrating.

I have to agree, however, because it's just right there in history all over the place that kids can kill, and they do it all the time. As sad as that is.

BUT I also have to agree that the convoluted and just disgustingly degrading staging of the crime does not come across at all to me as something a parent would do, in trying to protect either themselves or another child. JonBenet was --loved-- in that house. Who could love that tiny girl and then let her body be found as it was, garrotted and violated?

The Ramseys are not perfect people, and I am betting they were not perfect parents. But I have only the most profound doubt that they'd treat the body of their daughter that way, for any reason.

I hope this crime is truly and 100% solved some day. I fear it won't be any day soon. But no matter what any of us believe and how much or how loudly or how strongly we disagree on our theories, I am supposing that we're here because of our grief for that beautiful child, and our outrage over her murder.

Sometimes I just have to take a step back and remember that. We're all here, because we all care. We have that much in common.

Thanks for stating why you think this is not RDI, and for who you think might have done this.

Here's something to think about: When a crime is staged, it's a pretty well known and accepted fact that covering the body is something only some one close to the victim does. It's "undoing" and showing remorse, also an attempt to "comfort" the victim so to speak, when in reality it's to comfort the killer.

The fact that JB was cleaned, redressed, and wrapped in a blanket certainly points towards a family member that loved and cared for her. How do you reconcile this behavior with an intruder?

 

[2 percent]

^ That's my new sig.

I have stated before - I was firmly RDI, for a time. As time has passed and I have had a chance to read and observe more, I became one of those non-RDi-but-don't-have-a-theory people.

If pressed, I'd say it was somebody who'd been in the house prior to the murder , who knew the house layout, and who'd come to know the Ramseys and their habits quite well, either directly or without their knowledge.

I do notice RDI's are flexible - until it comes to people who don't think the Ramseys did it. Well. I don't think they did. The end.

You know, there have been families who've lived for weeks, months, with somebody LIVING in their ceiling or walls... No joke. The stalker -moved IN- to their house and walked around touching all thier stuff while nobody was home. This stuff really happens. I am NOT for goodness' sake (NOT, to be REALLY clear) saying that's what I think happened to JonBenet, but I DO allow for the possibility of an obsession with the child, and somebody watching the family over a period of time, for an opportunity.

Anyways, I find it highly hypocritical that people can accuse Burke up and down this board however they damn please, but other non-suspects are off the menu. I really needed to say that, as it gets a bit frustrating.

I have to agree, however, because it's just right there in history all over the place that kids can kill, and they do it all the time. As sad as that is.

BUT I also have to agree that the convoluted and just disgustingly degrading staging of the crime does not come across at all to me as something a parent would do, in trying to protect either themselves or another child. JonBenet was --loved-- in that house. Who could love that tiny girl and then let her body be found as it was, garrotted and violated?

The Ramseys are not perfect people, and I am betting they were not perfect parents. But I have only the most profound doubt that they'd treat the body of their daughter that way, for any reason.

I hope this crime is truly and 100% solved some day. I fear it won't be any day soon. But no matter what any of us believe and how much or how loudly or how strongly we disagree on our theories, I am supposing that we're here because of our grief for that beautiful child, and our outrage over her murder.

Sometimes I just have to take a step back and remember that. We're all here, because we all care. We have that much in common.

What about the prior sexual assault? Are you saying JB was assaulted by a stranger in her house and said nothing to her parents?
I find a stranger in the attic successfully assaulting her in the home with no mention extremely unlikely.

Also, this stranger in the walls or attic would have had to scour his existence from the house after killing JB. Again...just don't see it.

 

[Chrishope]

Thanks for stating why you think this is not RDI, and for who you think might have done this.

Here's something to think about: When a crime is staged, it's a pretty well known and accepted fact that covering the body is something only some one close to the victim does. It's "undoing" and showing remorse, also an attempt to "comfort" the victim so to speak, when in reality it's to comfort the killer.

While this is certainly true, family members do that sort of thing, it might be that the blanket simply makes it harder to determine that it's a body. It might also be that it's easier to carry a body in a blanket than with the arms/legs sticking out and weird angles. It might also be easier to carry the body w/o having to look at the face. Either way it tends to suggest a family member.

[quote}
The fact that JB was cleaned, redressed, and wrapped in a blanket certainly points towards a family member that loved and cared for her. How do you reconcile this behavior with an intruder?[/quote]


The cleaning and redressing and wrapping might well suggest caring. It might also just be and attempt to hide evidence of what happened. Either way, it's hard to reconcile with an intruder.


As an aside, I've been thinking about your idea that JR wanted the body found in the house to keep the FBI and LM out of the investigation. How do you think the SSF stuff in the RN plays into that ? I'd think mentioning SFF makes it, at least superficially, look like a possible security issue (not sure JR was working on anything sensitive, but maybe) thus making LM involvement more likely? I don't know much about how LM's security dept. works or the kinds of things they might respond to.

 

[Tricia]

Arrgh. Just when

Nevermind.

Could someone point me to the How to Use the Ignore button, please.

I would strongly recommend to everyone to put posters on ignore you feel are here not to discuss but to disrupt.

Not saying anyone is doing that here but just in general

Here is the link again with instructions on how to put someone on ignore.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9818252&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - How to put a poster on ignore[/ame]

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

What about the prior sexual assault? Are you saying JB was assaulted by a stranger in her house and said nothing to her parents?
I find a stranger in the attic successfully assaulting her in the home with no mention extremely unlikely.

Also, this stranger in the walls or attic would have had to scour his existence from the house after killing JB. Again...just don't see it.

That is not at all uncommon. Many children are molested by people close to them and they say nothing. Nothing..

It is absolutely possible.

 

[2 percent]

That is not at all uncommon. Many children are molested by people close to them and they say nothing. Nothing..

It is absolutely possible.

I'm talking specifically about about the theory a stranger who is hiding in their house molested her. Not an acquaintance or friend who visits or drops by and decides to molest her.

 

[StrayKat]

Most people I have ever discussed molestation with said, they never told anyone.

 

[Nom de plume]

While this is certainly true, family members do that sort of thing, it might be that the blanket simply makes it harder to determine that it's a body. It might also be that it's easier to carry a body in a blanket than with the arms/legs sticking out and weird angles. It might also be easier to carry the body w/o having to look at the face. Either way it tends to suggest a family member.

The fact that JB was cleaned, redressed, and wrapped in a blanket certainly points towards a family member that loved and cared for her. How do you reconcile this behavior with an intruder?

The cleaning and redressing and wrapping might well suggest caring. It might also just be and attempt to hide evidence of what happened. Either way, it's hard to reconcile with an intruder.

As an aside, I've been thinking about your idea that JR wanted the body found in the house to keep the FBI and LM out of the investigation. How do you think the SSF stuff in the RN plays into that ? I'd think mentioning SFF makes it, at least superficially, look like a possible security issue (not sure JR was working on anything sensitive, but maybe) thus making LM involvement more likely? I don't know much about how LM's security dept. works or the kinds of things they might respond to.

Chrishope you know this case well enough to know that her head, arms & legs were sticking out of that blanket.

I've yet to see one single case of an intruder breaking into a house, sexually molesting a child, bashing her in the head, garroting her, cleansing her, redressing her, wrapping her in a blanket, AND leaving a RN. Come on now....

IF his intention was to have her found in the house, and I'm not so sure it was now, LM would only get involved if he called them! IF his intention was for her to be found in the house, he would surely have expected LE to find her in a matter of minutes, no? So even if they heard about the murder later, no reason for them to get involved. No reason for the FBI to get involved either.

*I think JR really panicked when the FBI showed up!

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Chrishope you know this case well enough to know that her head, arms & legs were sticking out of that blanket.

I've yet to see one single case of an intruder breaking into a house, sexually molesting a child, bashing her in the head, garroting her, cleansing her, redressing her, wrapping her in a blanket, AND leaving a RN. Come on now....

IF his intention was to have her found in the house, and I'm not so sure it was now, LM would only get involved if he called them! IF his intention was for her to be found in the house, he would surely have expected LE to find her in a matter of minutes, no? So even if they heard about the murder later, no reason for them to get involved. No reason for the FBI to get involved either.

*I think JR really panicked when the FBI showed up!

Aren't most cases pretty unique if you get that specific?

 

[BOESP]

You're assuming that it would have been leaked by now.
And it is possible that it would have been leaked by now but just as possible that it hasn't.

Venom, I think some posters may have forgotten that enough evidence for a true bill of "child abuse resulting in death" was presented in a court of law. It is, imo, totally unreasonable and illogical to dismiss those findings as irrelevant.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The Wall Street Journal has a murder database, that gives you very interesting facts on murders from 2000-2010 using FBI data. You can see information relating to the race, sex and age of the victim and killer, the weapon used, the relationship of the victim to his or her killer, the state it happened in, etc.

http://projects.wsj.com/murderdata

I looked at the year 2000 since it's the closest to 1996. In the year 2000, there were:

13,856 murders
1,196 victims under age 17
353 female victims under age 17
32 female children killed by their mother
45 female children killed by their father
7 female children killed by their brother
23 female children killed by a blunt object
16 female children killed by strangulation

Most homicides in this country are related to inner city crime. It just seems like sensational cases happen all the time because of the media. No matter what happened to JBR, who killed her, her murder is very rare. Of the 32 mothers who killed their daughters in 2000, how many of those mothers were over the age of 35, how many were from a high income bracket? Of the 7 brothers who killed their sister, how many were under age 10? Of the 16 female children killed by strangulation, how many were killed in their own basement while their family slept?