Japan: 9.0 Earthquake-Tsunami-Nuclear Reactor Developments #1

[wfgodot]

Japan ministers ignored safety warnings over nuclear reactors
Seismologist Ishibashi Katsuhiko claimed that an accident was likely and that plants have 'fundamental vulnerability'

Two new Guardian articles

Japan's fears of nuclear mayhem recede as nuclear reactor starts to cool
Physicists feared second explosion would create radioactive cloud as residents panicked, jamming city's exit roads

 

[Quiche]

Millirems is what we're talking about here, or millirems in regard to what I'm saying? I have the hospital sheets, stating 500 rads. That's what I'm going off of, because that's the only reference point that I personally have for radiation.

I'm not doubting you, you seem a lot more knowledgeable about this stuff than me, I'm just trying to get my head on straight.

Really? Wow, okay I'm still looking around... hopefully it's not too bad.

 

[not_my_kids]

Really? Wow, okay I'm still looking around... hopefully it's not too bad.

Go ahead. If you find anything let us know. I don't know that much about radiation. Such as, if there were fallout, I don't know how to keep it out of my home, I don't know how long it takes to leave the body or how long it would take to disperse if we did get a cloud.

I aldo don't know the difference between a controlled dose like they give you for x rays or body scans, and a huge cloud of the stuff coming at us...
I think there might be some people that are exaggerating the threat, but if this were to be bigger than Chernobyl, there's a possibility that no one knows what it will cause, since Chernobyl is pretty much the global reference point for radiation.

 

[tehcloser]

I don't know about this site, I'm just posting what I found, it is one of the only ones I have found that made it easy to understand.


For radiation exposure to really make you sick and die, you have to receive a lot of it in a short time. In terms of the Rad unit where 1 Rad of X-rays equalled 1000 millirem, we can estimate the various levels of sickness and death from different radiation dosages that are administered in a short period of time over the entire body (from an atomic bomb blast for example):

0-50 rads - No obvious short-term effects

80-120 rads - You have a 10% chance of vomiting and experiencing nausia for a few days

130 -170 rads - You have a 25% chance of vomiting and contracting other symptoms

180-220 rads - You have a 50% chance of vomiting and having other severe physical effects

270-330 rads - 20% chance of death in 6 weeks, or you will recover in a few months.

400-500 rads - 50% chance of death

550-750 rads - Nausia within a few hours ; no survivors

> 1000 rads - immediate incapacitation and death within a week or less.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...=12&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

 

[tehcloser]

Go ahead. If you find anything let us know. I don't know that much about radiation. Such as, if there were fallout, I don't know how to keep it out of my home, I don't know how long it takes to leave the body or how long it would take to disperse if we did get a cloud.

I aldo don't know the difference between a controlled dose like they give you for x rays or body scans, and a huge cloud of the stuff coming at us...
I think there might be some people that are exaggerating the threat, but if this were to be bigger than Chernobyl, there's a possibility that no one knows what it will cause, since Chernobyl is pretty much the global reference point for radiation.

From the same link........

Cancer treatments in chemotherapy routionly use hundreds of rads of radiation, but the area involved is very small and the entire body is not involved. Because radiation damage is cumulative, you have to consider your total radiation exposure over a lifetime.

 

[tehcloser]

Meltdown Caused Nuke Plant Explosion: Safety Body


TOKYO (Nikkei)--The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA) said Saturday afternoon the explosion at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant could only have been caused by a meltdown of the reactor core.

http://e.nikkei.com/e/fr/tnks/Nni20110312D12JFF03.htm

 

[Quiche]

Okay, so that number of rads would be awful, so now the accuracy of that fallout map needs to be called into question, imo.

http://gramercyimages.com/blog1/2011/03/12/map-of-potential-fallout-from-fukushima-reactor/

 

[tehcloser]

I'm thinking that for something like that to happen, we would have to be looking at the "worst of the worst case". I don't think that has happened, or even will happen at this point. However even thinking about it and looking around, I'm learning a lot. And in this day and time, WTH, can ya ever really be to prepared? Knowledge is power........

 

[tehcloser]

(Reuters) - Thousands of people evacuated from areas around a crippled nuclear power plant were scanned for radiation exposure as Japanese authorities struggled to cope with the aftermath of a massive earthquake and tsunami.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/12/us-japan-quake-evacuees-idUSTRE72B32L20110312

 

[Melanie]

Okay, so that number of rads would be awful, so now the accuracy of that fallout map needs to be called into question, imo.

http://gramercyimages.com/blog1/2011/03/12/map-of-potential-fallout-from-fukushima-reactor/

yup -- other message boards are saying the same thing. (fallout map needs to be called into question). If the map is accurate, Japan will have 0 population.

MOO

Mel

 

[Quiche]

Okay, so that number of rads would be awful, so now the accuracy of that fallout map needs to be called into question, imo.

http://gramercyimages.com/blog1/2011/03/12/map-of-potential-fallout-from-fukushima-reactor/

Quoting myself: I took this link down to just .com, and I have to say it's not credible. I'll look around and see if there is something more trustworthy.

 

[not_my_kids]

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/12/japan.nuclear.quesions/?hpt=C2

The reactors that we are all so worried about are boiling water reactors (I don't know what other kinds of reactors there are, so I don't know if that's good or bad.)the reactor that was the site of the explosion went online in November 1970, so it's an oldie. Of the six reactors at that plant, it is the oldest.
The reactor works through nuclear fission resulting from Uranium 235. It emits a lot of heat, which makes steam, which turns a turbine to make the electricity. (At least that part seems simple.)
3 reactors at the plant were in operation at the time of the quake. They shut down when it hit, just like they were supposed to, switching to diesel backup generators for cooling. They quit after an hour (I don't think that was supposed to happen.) They quit because tsunami damage.
(Supposedly) the blast at the plant was not caused by damage to the reactor, but failure of a pumpin system as they tried to get water into the reactor to cool it. (I posted a link last night though that says that if the reactor had hit 2000 degrees F, it would hvae been expected that there be an explosion due to hydrogen when the water made it in, not so much a malfucntion, but an expected explosion, so...)Once again, they say no damage to the containment chamber.
There are good quotes at the link from a nuclear expert saying essentially the same thing.
Japanese government is saying that the cesium found at the plant was due to the melting of a fuel rod. (That does sound possible and logical, but not necessarily the full truth, IMO). One definition of meltdown provided here is that the liquid coolant boils away, exposing those fuel rods, leading to temps of over 5000 degrees F.
There are two factors that determine whether or not it will melt down completely, those being whether they can get coolant pumping and whether the steel containment chamber can withstand the heat if they can't get coolant flowing.
Once again, some good quotes from the experts regarding that aspect of the issue and comparisons to Three Mile Island, which it turns out was a totally different issue.

I also looked up cesium:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesium
The radioactive isotope caesium-137 has a half-life of about 30 years and is used in medical applications, industrial gauges, and hydrology. Although the element is only mildly toxic, it is a hazardous material as a metal and its radioisotopes present a high health risk in case of radiation leaks. (The rest of the info on that page I don't even understand.)
Health risks include hyperirritability, spasms, and it is highly explosive when it touches water. It creates a lot of hydrogen gas and a great big explosion. It is corrosive, and even corrode glass pretty fast. The one good thing that I'm reading is that it doesn't build up in the body as well as some other radioactive materials. It passes through sweat and urine fairly quickly if it does enter the body. As I understand it cesium is one of the things they are worried about, since it is in high levels at that control room in the plant.

 

[peeples]

(Reuters) - Thousands of people evacuated from areas around a crippled nuclear power plant were scanned for radiation exposure as Japanese authorities struggled to cope with the aftermath of a massive earthquake and tsunami.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/12/us-japan-quake-evacuees-idUSTRE72B32L20110312

Here is this

At 22:53 JST (13:53 GMT) Tokyo Broadcasting System (TBS), quoting Fukushima representatives, has reported that there was an evacuation of 30 staff members and 60 patients due to the explosion. From those evacuees three patients received a checkup for radiation exposure by the hospital staff at Futaba, a town 3.5 miles from the power plant. One out of three people who received the checkup showed an exposure of "100,000 counts per minute" (about 45 nanocuries) while the other two people showed exposure of 40,000 (≈18 nCi) and 30,000 (≈14 nCi) counts per minute. According to experts, this is a level of radiation from which an individual needs to be decontaminated. While all three patients were decontaminated, they may have contaminated the other individuals who were evacuated and those evacuees may also require decontamination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_I_Nuclear_Power_Plant

 

[not_my_kids]

From the same link........

Cancer treatments in chemotherapy routionly use hundreds of rads of radiation, but the area involved is very small and the entire body is not involved. Because radiation damage is cumulative, you have to consider your total radiation exposure over a lifetime.

Thank you. That's what I was wondering, a controlled release into the body, versus a cloud of radioactive material that would be hitting the skin, the lungs, and everything at once. Doesn't sound good.

 

[Quiche]

That map is all over the place-- I think it originated at a company in Australia who sells radioactivity protection/detection stuff. So... I call BS.

the link I was led to: http://www.australian-radiation-services.com.au/index.php

 

[peeples]

tepco press release.. font small Don't think they are being 100% truthful but worth reading

To make font bigger hold down control button on the keyboard and use the scroll button on your mouse and roll it up

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031229-e.html

 

[not_my_kids]

US Nuclear Regulatory Commission: Deploying two experts as part of team to try to deal with the nuclear problems.
US government saying they will do "whatever they are asked to do."

1500 pounds of rice and bread have been delivered.
2 ships U S Naval ships there now, 8 others on it's way, and a sub and helicopters are on the way, (If "Amphibious ship" means sub, that is.)

We will only do what we are asked to do.

Muai is in a state of disaster. All ports in HI have been re-opened, except for that one.
Four counties in CA are in a state of emergency.

per CNN international. Taking notes from their live stream.

 

[peeples]

Thanks not my kids!

 

[not_my_kids]

On top of aftershocks, that could continue for months, there have been 51 mudslides.
CNN experts saying that they can't fully predict, and that this might not have even been the "big one". It is possible that there could be worse, and what we have seen are foreshocks, as opposed to the big quake and then some aftershocks.

I don't even want to consider that.

 

[hockeymom]

On top of aftershocks, that could continue for months, there have been 51 mudslides.
CNN experts saying that they can't fully predict, and that this might not have even been the "big one". It is possible that there could be worse, and what we have seen are foreshocks, as opposed to the big quake and then some aftershocks.

I don't even want to consider that.

OMG,been away from the news all morning. Sounds like I missed nothing but bad news!