Japan: 9.0 Earthquake-Tsunami-Nuclear Reactor Developments #1

[gitana1]

Can someone explain to me what exactly is meant by "meltdown"? I mean, what exactly, physically happens in such a process?

 

[JBean]

Can someone explain to me what exactly is meant by "meltdown"? I mean, what exactly, physically happens in such a process?

OH there are some good posts in her explaining it. Maybe I can find them for you.
ETA: LOL Actually I think Quiche can explain it just fine.

 

[Kat]

gitana Dr. Fessel posted some really good info on these specific types of reactors. I'll see if I can find them to bump them for you.

 

[scandi]

I also heard on the news today that a nuclear cloud will not kill you outright. It will however affect you, in that down the road you might come down with cancer.

We all have cancer in our bodies as I learned on Letterman's show last week from Michael Douglas, as told to him by his doctor. It takes hold in some, not others. So being exposed to a nuclear cloud would just up the possibilities of a higher cancer rate among us. xox

 

[Quiche]

Can someone explain to me what exactly is meant by "meltdown"? I mean, what exactly, physically happens in such a process?

I tried, but I started talking in circles, lol. There's this--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_meltdown

 

[Kat]

It's been a few years since I've discussed it but Japan would not allow nuclear Navy ships in their ports, to dock for repairs or any reason.

I've heard somewhere they have now invited the USS Ronald Reagan in to help and broken that restriction.

I'm glad you're safe and sound Kat, your location sounds beautiful.

It is very nice Peliman, it's different. Very different. Although it's the USA the cultural influence is almost exclusive to Asia with minor influence remaining from the South Pacific. This state is the gateway to Asia. Japan being one of the predominent influences.

I can't tell you how unnerving ( I was never scared or alarmed because I am on very high ground here) to hear sirens go off and to only know that the tsunami you saw just wipe out Japan is on it's way to visit you and your in the middle of the ocean on a small island. That'll make your gut clench up for sure.

But every single person here on the Islands has their eyes facing East because we know we were lucky. Not blessed because that implies others that suffered weren't blessed. We were just plain lucky as h3ll.

What bothers me most about the last few hours of watching the news is that the focus is being shifted from the true victims in Japan to sensational media which is creating "what if" scenarios. Thereby taking the focus off of the victims. I really can't state how very upset that makes me to see that. It illustrates one of the reasons why the US is so deeply hated in a great many areas of the world. We appear very self centered. May not be an accurate portrayal but the US media as of today isn't helping that image. JMHO.

I might go to bed soon and watch TV coverage. I know it's getting late for all of you all. Thanks for staying up late and keeping us up to date on this thread!

 

[gitana1]

Hi Gitana, I've had the news on all day, and according to them you get your animals ready to take with you at first warning and keep liquid cash in your pocketbook. xox

We had a small earthquake here last year. About 4.3 or something. But my house is on stilts, or whatever. It's elevated (100 years old) and no basement, just space underneath the house. So it really, really shook! In fact, I was online here at Websleuths when it happened and posted awhile later that we just had a massive earthquake! But, it was actually pretty small. Nevertheless, I watched as pretty much everything not tacked down came off the walls, shelves, and tables. Luckily, most of my heavy stuff I have tied down or glued down. Like bookshelves are screwed and strapped to the walls, my t.v. likewise and I have earthquake tape holding my pottery and stuff onto shelves. But I still lost several vases and wine bottles and had a huge clean up of food items from the pantry, cleaning supplies, toiletries, etc. It was kind of good because it showed me new areas I needed to be aware of to reinforce and make more earthquake safe.

Anyhow, my poor cats! One, the really smart one, came running out to where I was, looked around and then ran and hid under a bed. The other one (who is special needs, seriously), hid for hours, I'm not sure where. I could never locate her until she came out that night. It always worries me how I will be able to find and grab them in case of emergency. One time there was a small fire in my house. I came home, opened the front door and saw tons of smoke. I left the door open, called 911 and quickly looked for my babies. One (the canny cat) was on the bed, enveloped in smoke. I grabbed her and threw her outside where she began vomiting from smoke inhalation. I could not find the other one and waited outside for the fireman. I was practically hysterical, thinking she would die of smoke inhalation. (The fire was very small and contained - not my biggest concern). When the firefighters came, six of them, they flung beds over to try and get her. They found her but she ran like crazy and not one could catch her! So, I always worry about what would happen should I need to grab them and go. I actually dream about it sometimes.

Watching this unfold, I think about people asked to evacuate who have disabled relatives, or elderly family members and realize how hard it is to actually flee when you have someone who can't move fast. It's so scary!

 

[gitana1]

It is very nice Peliman, it's different. Very different. Although it's the USA the cultural influence is almost exclusive to Asia with minor influence remaining from the South Pacific. This state is the gateway to Asia. Japan being one of the predominent influences.

I can't tell you how unnerving ( I was never scared or alarmed because I am on very high ground here) to hear sirens go off and to only know that the tsunami you saw just wipe out Japan is on it's way to visit you and your in the middle of the ocean on a small island. That'll make your gut clench up for sure.

But every single person here on the Islands has their eyes facing East because we know we were lucky. Not blessed because that implies others that suffered weren't blessed. We were just plain lucky as h3ll.

What bothers me most about the last few hours of watching the news is that the focus is being shifted from the true victims in Japan to sensational media which is creating "what if" scenarios. Thereby taking the focus off of the victims. I really can't state how very upset that makes me to see that. It illustrates one of the reasons why the US is so deeply hated in a great many areas of the world. We appear very self centered. May not be an accurate portrayal but the US media as of today isn't helping that image. JMHO.

I might go to bed soon and watch TV coverage. I know it's getting late for all of you all. Thanks for staying up late and keeping us up to date on this thread!

Wow. That is a powerful post! You're right. We have this scare tactic media. It's all about trying to inflame the public and bump up ratings. It makes me mad too. It makes me not trust the media at all! But I never thought about it the way you did until your post. By shifting the tragedy to what could remotely happen to us, due to a hysterical media, the real and current victims can get lost in our self-indulgent fears. I'm going to try to keep this in mind from now on! And if I can, I'm going to delete a recent post where I bought into the fear spread by the fallout article so it won't spread farther! They really get us sometimes, the media, don't they!

P.s., I think BBC News is usually pretty good at keeping calm and keeping perspective.

 

[scandi]

We had a small earthquake here last year. About 4.3 or something. But my house is on stilts, or whatever. It's elevated (100 years old) and no basement, just space underneath the house. So it really, really shook! In fact, I was online here at Websleuths when it happened and posted awhile later that we just had a massive earthquake! But, it was actually pretty small. Nevertheless, I watched as pretty much everything not tacked down came off the walls, shelves, and tables. Luckily, most of my heavy stuff I have tied down or glued down. Like bookshelves are screwed and strapped to the walls, my t.v. likewise and I have earthquake tape holding my pottery and stuff onto shelves. But I still lost several vases and wine bottles and had a huge clean up of food items from the pantry, cleaning supplies, toiletries, etc. It was kind of good because it showed me new areas I needed to be aware of to reinforce and make more earthquake safe.

Anyhow, my poor cats! One, the really smart one, came running out to where I was, looked around and then ran and hid under a bed. The other one (who is special needs, seriously), hid for hours, I'm not sure where. I could never locate her until she came out that night. It always worries me how I will be able to find and grab them in case of emergency. One time there was a small fire in my house. I came home, opened the front door and saw tons of smoke. I left the door open, called 911 and quickly looked for my babies. One (the canny cat) was on the bed, enveloped in smoke. I grabbed her and threw her outside where she began vomiting from smoke inhalation. I could not find the other one and waited outside for the fireman. I was practically hysterical, thinking she would die of smoke inhalation. (The fire was very small and contained - not my biggest concern). When the firefighters came, six of them, they flung beds over to try and get her. They found her but she ran like crazy and not one could catch her! So, I always worry about what would happen should I need to grab them and go. I actually dream about it sometimes.

Watching this unfold, I think about people asked to evacuate who have disabled relatives, or elderly family members and realize how hard it is to actually flee when you have someone who can't move fast. It's so scary!

Hi Gitana, I have never felt an earthquake and have no pets so am on a different plane than you are. I sure enjoyed reading your post though, picturing your situation and how you and your pets would react to it.

Unfortunately it is not a perfect science yet to name the time of an earthquake that will affect us. With the Tsunami situation we were very fortunate we were at the long end of the trail. We had about an 11 hour notice of what was about to come upon our shores. It was not an immediate action for us but a delayed one. There is another word to express that situation.

I know what you are saying tho, that cats and other animals have an intuitive feeling about something that is about to happen and they go into survival mode.

I guess all you can do is talk to them in a soothing voice so they will respond in like and come to you to be safe. Hopefully, eh? If not they are in God's hands. And remember with cats, they do have 9 lives. Ya Ya

ETA: As to your last paragraph I agree how challenging it would be to effectively care for disabled relatives in such a situation. I think the speaking to them in a soothing and positive voice would be paramount. Alley their fears so they would allow you to take charge of them.

 

[gitana1]

I tried, but I started talking in circles, lol. There's this--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_meltdown

Awesome, Quiche. So essentially, it's an overheating that damages the core, causing nuclear fuel assemblies to melt. And that can cause radioactive materials to be released into the environment and can cause great cost to the operator when they have to dispose of the destroyed core. But, modern reactors are designed to contain any meltdown so the radiation should be contained within the reactor's containment structure, severely damaging the reactor but not causing environmental damage. So in reality, the most likely pressing issue we face from a melt down of a modern reactor is the ridiculous cost of destroying the core and cleaning up the mess inside the reactor, not environmental damage. That's good to know.

 

[scandi]

Awesome, Quiche. So essentially, it's an overheating that damages the core, causing nuclear fuel assemblies to melt. And that can cause radioactive materials to be released into the environment and can cause great cost to the operator when they have to dispose of the destroyed core. But, modern reactors are designed to contain any meltdown so the radiation should be contained within the reactor's containment structure, severely damaging the reactor but not causing environmental damage. So in reality, the most likely pressing issue we face from a melt down of a modern reactor is the ridiculous cost of destroying the core and cleaning up the mess inside the reactor, not environmental damage. That's good to know.

Don't you wish the media would tell that to the public instead of letting the unknown possibilities scare all of us to death? So protection is built into the meltdown possibility. This is the first I have heard of that. Ta

 

[JBean]

We had a small earthquake here last year. About 4.3 or something. But my house is on stilts, or whatever. It's elevated (100 years old) and no basement, just space underneath the house. So it really, really shook! In fact, I was online here at Websleuths when it happened and posted awhile later that we just had a massive earthquake! But, it was actually pretty small. Nevertheless, I watched as pretty much everything not tacked down came off the walls, shelves, and tables. Luckily, most of my heavy stuff I have tied down or glued down. Like bookshelves are screwed and strapped to the walls, my t.v. likewise and I have earthquake tape holding my pottery and stuff onto shelves. But I still lost several vases and wine bottles and had a huge clean up of food items from the pantry, cleaning supplies, toiletries, etc. It was kind of good because it showed me new areas I needed to be aware of to reinforce and make more earthquake safe.

Anyhow, my poor cats! One, the really smart one, came running out to where I was, looked around and then ran and hid under a bed. The other one (who is special needs, seriously), hid for hours, I'm not sure where. I could never locate her until she came out that night. It always worries me how I will be able to find and grab them in case of emergency. One time there was a small fire in my house. I came home, opened the front door and saw tons of smoke. I left the door open, called 911 and quickly looked for my babies. One (the canny cat) was on the bed, enveloped in smoke. I grabbed her and threw her outside where she began vomiting from smoke inhalation. I could not find the other one and waited outside for the fireman. I was practically hysterical, thinking she would die of smoke inhalation. (The fire was very small and contained - not my biggest concern). When the firefighters came, six of them, they flung beds over to try and get her. They found her but she ran like crazy and not one could catch her! So, I always worry about what would happen should I need to grab them and go. I actually dream about it sometimes.

Watching this unfold, I think about people asked to evacuate who have disabled relatives, or elderly family members and realize how hard it is to actually flee when you have someone who can't move fast. It's so scary!

we did have that 7.2 last April and that was a real shaker.

 

[katydid23]

Thank you Quiche, it is a comfort to see rescue numbers rise. I worry that all of the radiation talk is going to start pushing outside groups to not want to go in there, when those poor people need help ASAP.

I think there are still a lot of rescue groups going over there, but they are just having to be more prepared. The group out of So California that my son was going with reorganized their plans, but are still sending help. They just dropped the younger less experienced volunteers and are going with the experienced Hazmat trained paramedics instead. So help is on the way, it is just taking a bit longer to get their gear together.

 

[Elphaba]

I think there are still a lot of rescue groups going over there, but they are just having to be more prepared. The group out of So California that my son was going with reorganized their plans, but are still sending help. They just dropped the younger less experienced volunteers and are going with the experienced Hazmat trained paramedics instead. So help is on the way, it is just taking a bit longer to get their gear together.

That is good to hear, K!

 

[gitana1]

I've got to say that if this was to happen in any other country, I think we would likely see more casualties. Japan is one of the most safety conscious countries on earth and as prepared as any can be. They don't seem to put money above safety. I'm impressed with their response to this disaster.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Awesome, Quiche. So essentially, it's an overheating that damages the core, causing nuclear fuel assemblies to melt. And that can cause radioactive materials to be released into the environment and can cause great cost to the operator when they have to dispose of the destroyed core. But, modern reactors are designed to contain any meltdown so the radiation should be contained within the reactor's containment structure, severely damaging the reactor but not causing environmental damage. So in reality, the most likely pressing issue we face from a melt down of a modern reactor is the ridiculous cost of destroying the core and cleaning up the mess inside the reactor, not environmental damage. That's good to know.

Respectfully, I wouldn't say it's that simple. All nuclear plants are near water because the reactors have to be cooled down. Radiation released into water will kill anything in there, plus if we're talking about the ocean it becomes a worldwide problem. Water spreads out and of course humans need it to survive, too.

The problem too is that so far we don't know how much structural damage there is to these reactors, and even if they make a statement that "All is Well" I'll be cynical. The radiation might or might not be contained.

You might want to read about Chernobyl, which is still a radioactive wasteland. BBC has a good slideshow of what it looks like now. The fallout cloud from that disaster threatened all the northern countries of Europe - I recall the "radioactive reindeer" in Lapland and Finland.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/in_pictures_chernobyl0s_lost_city/html/1.stm

 

[Daisyjane]

I just read that those nuke plants were built to withstand a 7.9 quake. This 8.9 quake is a whole other animal. Now there are reports of rising radiation levels around two additional nuke plants named Mekawa and Onagawa. My question is this: why did they build a nuke plant there at all, if they knew the area was THAT prone to large quakes?

Here's an interesting site where you can monitor radiation levels at various locations in the US.

http://www.radiationnetwork.com/RadiationNetwork.htm

Since last night, Calif has gone from 15 to 31. But dollars to donuts, that site will go down the second anything out of the ordinary begins to show up.

 

[Trident]

I just read that those nuke plants were built to withstand a 7.9 quake. This 8.9 quake is a whole other animal. Now there are reports of rising radiation levels around two additional nuke plants named Mekawa and Onagawa. My question is this: why did they build a nuke plant there at all, if they knew the area was THAT prone to large quakes?

Here's an interesting site where you can monitor radiation levels at various locations in the US.

http://www.radiationnetwork.com/RadiationNetwork.htm

Since last night, Calif has gone from 15 to 31. But dollars to donuts, that site will go down the second anything out of the ordinary begins to show up.

Would you really expect anything different, like the truth?

Once upon a time there was a bit more truth - now even that is covered over with the leaving of the barn gutter.

Of course this is my opinion only and I'm sure all of the powers that be are straight forward, honest, believable, have our best interests in mind, and never, ever, CTOA, meaning, cover their own hind quarters.

 

[tehcloser]

Seems "quieter" this am. Maybe a good sign?

 

[daisy7]

Just got a CNN alert:

-- U.N. agency: State of emergency at nuclear power plant in Onagawa, Japan, where excessive radiation levels reported.