Japan: 9.0 Earthquake-Tsunami-Nuclear Reactor Status #4

[Allusonz]

If they can't cool it with water and I wasn't scared of cracking the reactor vessel, I might try some experimental use of liquid nitrogen. :waitasec:

Have to run this by the WS engineers, they keep me from blowin stuff up.

You know maybe you are on to something there...if you cant fix it blow it up

Sorry not trying to seem heartless or anything as I have grave concerns for the Japanese people but what they are presently doing is simply not working

We still have had no word from our friends there thus we do fear the worse

 

[Peliman]

Doesn't super cold onto super hot, mean CRRRRRRACK?


Wait, or is it just the other way around?

Welllll it works for cracking marbles

 

[Quiche]

Welllll it works for cracking marbles

Okaaay, then it should work! :floorlaugh:

They need to go with the KISS model...

 

[not_my_kids]

http://www.nytimes.com/cwire/2011/0...s-blame-fukushima-1-explosions-and-19903.html

Reactor 1 explosion in a nutshell: They tried to send the gases that were building out through the ventilation system...the ventilation system that is made of pipes, fans, valves, guages, and all kinds of other fascinating parts that need electricity to operate. Electricity that they didn't have. Outcome: It went boom.

Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for the plant workers, and they are the little guys, just following their orders. But don't the guys giving the orders have any clue what they're doing? We have cooling problems now more than ever because the salt water solution only made it worse in the long run. The idea to vent the reactors backfired in a big way, and they are losing workers to radiation now, because they endangered them by sending them back in with what I see to be less than substandard precautions.

 

[not_my_kids]

Hopes that the worst was over when Japanese authorities re-established electricity Tuesday were soon dashed — when it was announced Iodine 131 had been found in drinking water near the site. The solution of cooling down the plant’s six reactors with seawater also began fears about the buildup of salt, which could damage the zirconium coating around the uranium cores, creating more concern about further release of all kinds of radiation.
As officials continue to track general radiation levels in Oregon, the public can view daily levels at public.health.oregon.gov.
http://www.oregonlive.com/argus/index.ssf/2011/03/officials_japan_reactor_radiat.html

So technically, it's not just colling problems from the salt buildup, it's actually eating away at yet another layer of protection, which is the coating on the uranium rods themselves. Just freakin awesome.

 

[Quiche]

http://www.nytimes.com/cwire/2011/0...s-blame-fukushima-1-explosions-and-19903.html

Reactor 1 explosion in a nutshell: They tried to send the gases that were building out through the ventilation system...the ventilation system that is made of pipes, fans, valves, guages, and all kinds of other fascinating parts that need electricity to operate. Electricity that they didn't have. Outcome: It went boom.

Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for the plant workers, and they are the little guys, just following their orders. But don't the guys giving the orders have any clue what they're doing? We have cooling problems now more than ever because the salt water solution only made it worse in the long run. The idea to vent the reactors backfired in a big way, and they are losing workers to radiation now, because they endangered them by sending them back in with what I see to be less than substandard precautions.

From your link:

Quote: Barrett predicted that the melted reactor cores at the three Fukushima units resemble those of Three Mile Island's reactor 1: "a bed of rubble with localized melting of composite materials of steel, zirconium, and uranium. Sort of like a highly radioactive steel mill slag-like material. These cores are likely still in the reactor vessels, and are being cooled by seawater injection using highly pressurized fire engine pumps," he said. Venting continues to contain pressures in the primary containment.

"This current 'feed and bleed' method of cooling with salt water is not a sustainable long term cooling method. Salt deposits are likely building up in locations in the thermally heterogeneous core rubble pile. This configuration is completely unknown. But the Fukushima reactors, I believe, are much more damaged and contaminated than TMI was and there are three of them in this state."


I've seen around the google mill, that they are using fresh water now, because of the corrosive potentials. Where are they getting fresh water in that amount? And if it's available, why didn't they use it to begin with?

 

[Daisyjane]

Hopes that the worst was over when Japanese authorities re-established electricity Tuesday were soon dashed — when it was announced Iodine 131 had been found in drinking water near the site. The solution of cooling down the plant’s six reactors with seawater also began fears about the buildup of salt, which could damage the zirconium coating around the uranium cores, creating more concern about further release of all kinds of radiation.
As officials continue to track general radiation levels in Oregon, the public can view daily levels at public.health.oregon.gov.
http://www.oregonlive.com/argus/index.ssf/2011/03/officials_japan_reactor_radiat.html

So technically, it's not just colling problems from the salt buildup, it's actually eating away at yet another layer of protection, which is the coating on the uranium rods themselves. Just freakin awesome.

Shouldn't they have KNOWN that salt in seawater would have this effect?

 

[not_my_kids]

Shouldn't they have KNOWN that salt in seawater would have this effect?

I think they did, but they were so much more concerned with the fact that they wouldn't be able to use their reactors anymore.

They have been saying since the beginning that the salt water would corrode "key elements" and "crucial parts" of the reactors. They just never told us which ones. I think we know now.

 

[Allusonz]

Shouldn't they have KNOWN that salt in seawater would have this effect?

I believe that they were well aware of this. It could of been that there was damage to water pipes etc, the logistics of getting fresh water there immediately etc, even with all the logistics involved I still feel they should of been more up front

OT i dont presently have a link but I do recall reading right after this happened that they were monitoring around Chernobyl right away that should tell us something

 

[Quiche]

Okay, I found something--

TEPCO injects fresh water into Daiichi nuclear reactors


Quote: The company started injecting saltwater, the only water source available soon after the earthquake, to cool the cores of the reactors and the spent fuel pools.

TEPCO said the source of freshwater was the Sakashita Dam in Fukushima Prefecture.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/25/us-japan-tepco-daiichi-idUSTRE72O3IH20110325

 

[trigger]

I'm praying for these brave men. raying:

I remember watching a movie Cher had done, it was really scary. This is 10x more scary. I cannot remember the name of the movie though, but it was a true story.

 

[Peliman]

Okay, I found something--

TEPCO injects fresh water into Daiichi nuclear reactors


Quote: The company started injecting saltwater, the only water source available soon after the earthquake, to cool the cores of the reactors and the spent fuel pools.

TEPCO said the source of freshwater was the Sakashita Dam in Fukushima Prefecture.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/25/us-japan-tepco-daiichi-idUSTRE72O3IH20110325

Something else here, maybe in combination.

Kitazawa: US to help avoid salt damage in reactors

Japan's defense minister says the government plans to switch from seawater to fresh water to cool the crippled reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, with the support of US forces.

The US forces and Japan's Self-Defense Forces have drawn up plans to anchor off the Fukushima coast US Navy barges capable of carrying large amounts of water, and send water via pipelines to the plant.
The US military is also to provide a high-powered pump to send water through the pipelines, and Japanese SDF vessels are to be mobilized to refill the barges with water.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/25_22.html

 

[tk71texas]

at radiationnetwork.com, there are lots more readings than there were last week.

 

[tk71texas]

I'm praying for these brave men. raying:

I remember watching a movie Cher had done, it was really scary. This is 10x more scary. I cannot remember the name of the movie though, but it was a true story.

that was silkwood. It was Karen Silkwood that was the exposing a plant's safety issues i think and someone exposed her to plutonium. On her way to the EPA people i think she was found dead in her car in a ditch. Been a long time since i've seen that movie. I was a kerr mcgee plant in oklahoma.

 

[tk71texas]

I really tore up that explanation.....lol, here ya go

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Silkwood

 

[tk71texas]

here is the EPA radiation reports....

http://www.epa.gov/japan2011/rert/radnet-data-map.html

 

[Quiche]

Something else here, maybe in combination.

Kitazawa: US to help avoid salt damage in reactors

Japan's defense minister says the government plans to switch from seawater to fresh water to cool the crippled reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, with the support of US forces.

The US forces and Japan's Self-Defense Forces have drawn up plans to anchor off the Fukushima coast US Navy barges capable of carrying large amounts of water, and send water via pipelines to the plant.
The US military is also to provide a high-powered pump to send water through the pipelines, and Japanese SDF vessels are to be mobilized to refill the barges with water.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/25_22.html

Awesome, Peli! I'm so glad we can help this situation in a critical way.

 

[Quiche]

Status report: Reactor-by-reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi plant

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/25/japan.nuclear.status/


(I wish they'd give us the numbers, instead of generalities like "high"...)

 

[trigger]

that was silkwood. It was Karen Silkwood that was the exposing a plant's safety issues i think and someone exposed her to plutonium. On her way to the EPA people i think she was found dead in her car in a ditch. Been a long time since i've seen that movie. I was a kerr mcgee plant in oklahoma.

TY.... What a movie that was. Those poor people working under those horrible conditions. And when the siren rang out, they knew one of their worker were contaminated.

 

[tk71texas]

TY.... What a movie that was. Those poor people working under those horrible conditions. And when the siren rang out, they knew one of their worker were contaminated.

merryl streep was fabulous in that movie