Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #2

[fridaybaker]

Lilykaluva, I read your commented after I posted mine. Great points. You make my point about "layers" much better than I. There is much more going on around this case than simply evidence.

 

[Sillybilly]

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[dotr]

2022

Faceless

True Crime Podcast · Weekly Series · In December of the year 2000, an unknown male broke into a suburban Tokyo home and killed an entire family. Despite leaving thousands of pieces of evidence in the house, including his clothes, the mur…

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9 episodes
In December of the year 2000, an unknown male broke into a suburban Tokyo home and killed an entire family. Despite leaving thousands of pieces of evidence in the house, including his clothes, the murder weapon, his DNA, his blood, even his excrement—we are no closer to knowing this man’s identity. There’s no clear motive. And no sign of the case being closed. The Miyazawa family murders are a paradox. They’re a case which has haunted Tokyo police for 22 years now. A case which should be solved. But one which has far more questions than answers.''

 

[lilykaluva]

Lilykaluva, I read your commented after I posted mine. Great points. You make my point about "layers" much better than I. There is much more going on around this case than simply evidence.

Once upon a time I was a teacher for troubled kids and now I work in political science, so this case taps into a lot of areas I'm familiar with. Unfortunately, yeah, there are... a lot of political layers here that are very much land mines waiting to go off. And as much as it should be the case that this case is a case itself alone and Niina, Rei, Yasuko, and Mikio deserve justice just because they were human beings, politics have a way of complicating concepts like justice. Which is infuriating. But I at least want Setsuko to have an answer, and for the killer to face some modicum of justice.

 

[Charlot123]

Not to mention if he's not a US serviceman himself, but the child of one. US servicemen in Japan is already a tense issue (and was also a major tension in the wake of the Okinawa incident when this case broke; there were protests, and there have been on and off since, and the tensions have increased in recent years again). There's a whole host of legal and ethical and political complications that could quite honestly blow this case up in the news on both sides of the world and bring potential serious ramifications.

RSBM.

JMO: We are discussing the perpetrator being from a US military base because Nic’s poi has this background and clicks some points. Where does it lead? - Nowhere. We still 100% depend on the Japanese police doing modern DNA work.

My opinion is known: new Japanese immigration laws, while necessary, will soon bring in new problems. And then, watch how fast Japan will turn to DNA criminology. It will be great for the relationship between the two countries if their genetic criminologists will be trained here in the US.

The elephant in the room of this thread is US military base. Controversial as they are, they won’t exist were it not for politics and economy. And like railroads, they bring in economy… A purely personal opinion from a trip to Iceland. Iceland’s main Keflavík airport used to be a US naval base between WWII - 2006. What did Keflavík airport inherit from the base? Great runways and infrastructure. Google, and you’ll see. Iceland is becoming a major hub for travels between NA/Europe. Due to layovers, tourism is developing. In short: as long as bases are dire necessity, they exist. Economically, they leave fully developed infrastructure.

Coming back to the Setagaya murders. Too early to discuss the potential “tension”, because we know nada about the killer. It is the obscurity that brings in the tension, and the speculations. Japan has not approached the US for help. Asking Korea for help backfired, so we have to learn from it. In my layperson’s opinion, should Japan ask US for help in identifying the Setagaya murderer, complete transparency, good PR consultants, full help, and treating the suspect as any mass murderer is the only way to go. (The situation could be like the murder of Christine Jessop: for years, a neighbor was accused because he fit too well, and it ended up being someone outside of Canadian LE radar.)

We are unaware if the murderer is an American citizen. If he is, it is our tragedy, too, because he might be a serial killer here. Not our fault, because no one gave us the killer’s DNA. But for today, the families, Japan and the world simply need the name.

 

[lilykaluva]

RSBM.

JMO: We are discussing the perpetrator being from a US military base because Nic’s poi has this background and clicks some points. Where does it lead? - Nowhere. We still 100% depend on the Japanese police doing modern DNA work.

My opinion is known: new Japanese immigration laws, while necessary, will soon bring in new problems. And then, watch how fast Japan will turn to DNA criminology. It will be great for the relationship between the two countries if their genetic criminologists will be trained here in the US.

The elephant in the room of this thread is US military base. Controversial as they are, they won’t exist were it not for politics and economy. And like railroads, they bring in economy… A purely personal opinion from a trip to Iceland. Iceland’s main Keflavík airport used to be a US naval base between WWII - 2006. What did Keflavík airport inherit from the base? Great runways and infrastructure. Google, and you’ll see. Iceland is becoming a major hub for travels between NA/Europe. Due to layovers, tourism is developing. In short: as long as bases are dire necessity, they exist. Economically, they leave fully developed infrastructure.

Coming back to the Setagaya murders. Too early to discuss the potential “tension”, because we know nada about the killer. It is the obscurity that brings in the tension, and the speculations. Japan has not approached the US for help. Asking Korea for help backfired, so we have to learn from it. In my layperson’s opinion, should Japan ask US for help in identifying the Setagaya murderer, complete transparency, good PR consultants, full help, and treating the suspect as any mass murderer is the only way to go. (The situation could be like the murder of Christine Jessop: for years, a neighbor was accused because he fit too well, and it ended up being someone outside of Canadian LE radar.)

We are unaware if the murderer is an American citizen. If he is, it is our tragedy, too, because he might be a serial killer here. Not our fault, because no one gave us the killer’s DNA. But for today, the families, Japan and the world simply need the name.

I agree this is what should be done! The problem is that politics doesn't operate like that--it's intentionally concerned with the factors around an event and precedent. So, I don't think it's too early to discuss tensions, mostly because I'm quite certain the TMPD and other parties have considered them, and these considerations likely influenced the investigation even if not intentionally.

Like, I would guess the TMPD were thinking early on that it was more likely than not a Japanese citizen (which would have made sense until they got the sand samples analyzed, and then DNA too), so better not to rock the boat when things were still very tense after the Okinawa incident in 1995.

I'm not intending to argue for or against US military presence in other countries or about cultural perceptions and historical conflicts either! Just stating that they do exist and that certain conflicts that people in America aren't well-versed in still exist, and that some conflicts Americans by and large consider "over" are not considered that way in other nations. So I'm not arguing about this, just stating that these perceptions exist whether rightly or not.

Plus, a lot of politics requires looking at things through a different ethical lens that often defaults back to "the common good" or "least harm for most people." (Which I personally don't think is exactly awesome ethically, but again I'm not arguing that here--just trying to explain where I think they're coming from.) And a killer who killed one family isn't necessarily a priority when compared to ongoing tensions in the region and certain countries' stakes therein. Which if you ask me is really messed up.

The ramifications of the killer being X or Y or Z have definitely occurred to those directly involved in the investigation, including the TMPD. Since early on the odds were that they didn't have to rock this boat and set off this tensions, they didn't. Now that they might need to, those old ramifications are still there, and cultural barriers around asking for help from certain groups also exist as well. All of this creates a situation where things like, if the killer is someone with a similar profile to Nick's POI, or who even overlaps in one or two areas, the implications could be dicey. The hope that they don't have to deal with these ramifications is pretty small at this point, though, so imo they should--but that's where the DNA law creates problems, as you said.

It's messy, and I wish people could just do what you said - take this as a case by itself and think that Niina, Rei, Mikio, and Yasuko deserve justice in this world, and assert that their lives mattered and we're worse off without them.

 

[BatataPoha]

Hello guys. New member here.

My biggest point of contention is the neighbours. After the gruesome things that happened over the other side, all they heard was the thud of the ladder. Nic and his sound guy are not convinced, and while you can factor in additional rot and decay of a wooden house that's not been in a good state for years, even the TMPD are not wholly sure about it. Acc to Nic and I am paraphrasing, there are still details there that bothers them.

What exactly are those things? And why would they not pursue that harder? Seems incredible to me. They don't even have to reveal what they glean off that investigation publicly if it somehow damages the social reputation of the victims (a bit farfetched but still just for the sake of brevity) but yet they haven't, atleast what I gathered from the podcast. Just to clarify, not blaming the neighbors for anything. MOO

 

[dotr]

Hello guys. New member here.

My biggest point of contention is the neighbours. After the gruesome things that happened over the other side, all they heard was the thud of the ladder. Nic and his sound guy are not convinced, and while you can factor in additional rot and decay of a wooden house that's not been in a good state for years, even the TMPD are not wholly sure about it. Acc to Nic and I am paraphrasing, there are still details there that bothers them.

What exactly are those things? And why would they not pursue that harder? Seems incredible to me. They don't even have to reveal what they glean off that investigation publicly if it somehow damages the social reputation of the victims (a bit farfetched but still just for the sake of brevity) but yet they haven't, atleast what I gathered from the podcast. Just to clarify, not blaming the neighbors for anything. MOO

Welcome to Ws @BatataPoha, so much about this case is still a mystery!

 

[BatataPoha]

Welcome to Ws @BatataPoha, so much about this case is still a mystery!

Thanks for the welcome. I understand that perfectly. Which is why this is so infuriating coz its the easiest line of questioning to pursue.

As a GP, I have some of my own personal theories regarding the killer and his mental state, but those are mere speculations whereas with this, the sister neighbour still very much lives there.

 

[Incoherent]

Hello guys. New member here.

My biggest point of contention is the neighbours. After the gruesome things that happened over the other side, all they heard was the thud of the ladder. Nic and his sound guy are not convinced, and while you can factor in additional rot and decay of a wooden house that's not been in a good state for years, even the TMPD are not wholly sure about it. Acc to Nic and I am paraphrasing, there are still details there that bothers them.

What exactly are those things? And why would they not pursue that harder? Seems incredible to me. They don't even have to reveal what they glean off that investigation publicly if it somehow damages the social reputation of the victims (a bit farfetched but still just for the sake of brevity) but yet they haven't, atleast what I gathered from the podcast. Just to clarify, not blaming the neighbors for anything. MOO

The house was built in the early 90’s, and although wooden would have still been in decent shape by the time of the murders in 2000. Now 24 years later with no renovation it is very dilapidated.

We have discussed the potential noise discrepancies at length here, but basically what it boils down to is the TMPD were satisfied that the Irie’s had nothing to do with the murder and were all cleared after investigation.
That’s not to say they got a pass, they will have been investigated thoroughly and fingerprinted to be cleared.
Whether they heard more than they said is up for debate. But the end result is still the same: cleared.

the sister neighbour still very much lives there.

I’m not sure if I’m misunderstanding you here but no one has lived there for decades.

 

[penelopeb]

I think the fact that soundproofing was installed at some point and that Mikio paid for *both* houses is a clue. Why wasn’t the cost split by household? Maybe noise was only an issue on one side and so he was accepting responsibility for that by paying for all the soundproofing.

I’m not sure what kind of disability Rei had but having worked with kids with disabilities in the past, it tends to cause a lot of stress in marriages. Most of the kids I worked with had divorced parents.

For whatever reason, maybe the neighbours were used to hearing screaming fights and ignored the screams and shouts that night. Maybe they turn the TV on really loud when they start to hear fighting to drown out the noise and did so that night too. And instead of admitting that, they simply said they hadn’t heard anything to save face for themselves and the Miyazawas.

I haven’t read anything about the state of the Miyazawas’ marriage…but totally understand why that would’ve been kept out of the Japanese press. Would the extended family even have been honest about that with the police?

As to the killer’s motive… I wonder if he found out his parents were divorcing and that’s why he wanted to destroy what he thought was a happy family. Maybe the Miyazawas had a family make up that was very similar to his own - older daughter, younger son, and two parents. He reserved the most rage for mother and daughter because his mom initiated the divorce? And he always had to live in his sister’s shadow?

Or he somehow found out that the Miyazawas were going to get a divorce, initiated by Yasuko. Was that the real reason why they hadn’t moved out yet? Maybe what he was looking for in the house were the divorce documents? I mean all speculation here. Don’t know if I buy that they were on the verge of divorce though.

 

[penelopeb]

As a GP, I have some of my own personal theories regarding the killer and his mental state, but those are mere speculations

When we get into the why, speculation is unfortunately all we have until and unless the killer comes forward and starts answering questions. Would love to hear your speculations @BatataPoha!

 

[fridaybaker]

Penelopeb,

I’ve also thought recently that maybe the killer targeted the family due to its makeup. I’m not thinking as much along the lines as the makeup being the same as whatever family situation he may have had, but simply that the Miazawa’s, as a family, seem sort of remarkable for being…unremarkable. They are to my eye what one might think of as “the perfect family”: Married husband and wife with two children, a boy and a girl each. They seem, from my point of view, to have been a happy and close family, celebrating birthdays and such together with much laughter and bonhomie. They lived comfortably in their own, quite nice, home.
A very cozy, and perhaps to some, enviable, situation.

I’m thinking that if a particular person had a goal to cause as much destruction as he could, he just might pick such a perfect looking family, with two, innocent children upon which to vent his rage. Maybe saw them out somewhere, followed them home…

 

[Tiger Stripes]

In this case, there is just so much that is "layered" onto the case that makes action or inaction hard to cipher, such as Japanese culture vs. American culture...

RSBM

You've just said it all in a nutshell...
(And without much additional commentary here, I'll simply add that, to the outsider/gaijin ["outside person", literally], Japanese culture/thought appears to be "Western"; the reality, however, is that it is not. Mentioning this one small aspect of the case with regard to those affiliated with the TMPD, and the manner in which they might oversee a case v. how those in the West/Western hemisphere might oversee the same case...)

 

[BatataPoha]

The house was built in the early 90’s, and although wooden would have still been in decent shape by the time of the murders in 2000. Now 24 years later with no renovation it is very dilapidated.

We have discussed the potential noise discrepancies at length here, but basically what it boils down to is the TMPD were satisfied that the Irie’s had nothing to do with the murder and were all cleared after investigation.
That’s not to say they got a pass, they will have been investigated thoroughly and fingerprinted to be cleared.
Whether they heard more than they said is up for debate. But the end result is still the same: cleared.


I’m not sure if I’m misunderstanding you here but no one has lived there for decades.

Hello Incoherent. First of, very coherent work in the threads here.

As I mentioned in the post, I never said I thought the neighbors did it. They were one of the first ones to be cleared. All I said was everyone from Nic, his sound guy and the TMPD don’t accept that the ladder thud was the only sound that they could have heard. That mystery has not been cleared up.

I harp onto this, because they are the only witnesses of the action (indirect) and yet their version of events doesn’t line up with what we know happened inside the house. As I said, there could be a rather simpler explaination to it, that a lot of people have speculated over here, but yet the TMPD are not convinced by it for some reason.

Its definitely a thing to consider, though ultimately might not have any bearing onto the case.

Also when I said she was there, I meant she was accessible for questioning, unlike some mystery foreigner in farway lands. Sorry for the miscommunication.

 

[Incoherent]

Hello Incoherent. First of, very coherent work in the threads here.

As I mentioned in the post, I never said I thought the neighbors did it. They were one of the first ones to be cleared. All I said was everyone from Nic, his sound guy and the TMPD don’t accept that the ladder thud was the only sound that they could have heard. That mystery has not been cleared up.

I harp onto this, because they are the only witnesses of the action (indirect) and yet their version of events doesn’t line up with what we know happened inside the house. As I said, there could be a rather simpler explaination to it, that a lot of people have speculated over here, but yet the TMPD are not convinced by it for some reason.

Its definitely a thing to consider, though ultimately might not have any bearing onto the case.

Also when I said she was there, I meant she was accessible for questioning, unlike some mystery foreigner in farway lands. Sorry for the miscommunication.

Apologies for misunderstanding there! And thank you for the compliment.

Yes, I actually do agree with you about the noise discrepancies - this comes from personal experience living in wooden buildings in and around Tokyo for multiple years too.
You can hear a pin drop. Even when someone coughs. The cold air from outside seeps in like there’s no wall at all. It was incredible to me too, even with soundproofing, that the ladder thud was the only sound heard. There are some interesting explanations posted around the thread.

But alas, that version of events was ultimately accepted and 24 years later the TMPD has found no further reason to question the Irie’s since.

 

[BatataPoha]

When we get into the why, speculation is unfortunately all we have until and unless the killer comes forward and starts answering questions. Would love to hear your speculations @BatataPoha!

Hey penelopeb. Sorry for this rather long post.

First of, I have read most of the points discussed here already. And I am not going to be rehashing them. I have a slightly different perspective, as a doctor, which I want to share here, for the benefit of the public. They ofcourse might all be completely bogwash, but since this is a cold case, I wanted to share this.

So basic premise - my speculation is based only on the actions that the killer does inside the house. Nothing of before or after. I am also not including any inferences from the physical evidence recovered from the scene of the crime.

My reasoning for not using it is fairly obvious. 1) I am not an expert on sands, shoes or skaters. 2) They have already been speculated ad nauseum.

So with that I begin with my BASIC PRINCIPLES OF THE MIYAZAWA KILLER -

1] This was the Killer’s first kill - fairly obvious. Bad knife, bad knife skills.

2]This might not have been the killer’s first break in and entering.

Some circumstantial evidence to support this. Perfect break in. Near perfect exit ( save a shoe mark - will come to that later). No evidence around either. Work of a complete novice , with no nerves, no evidence? - Difficult to accept.

Now I know he is not a career criminal, coz his fingerprints aren’t there in the database. But what if he doesn’t break in to steal, but as a sort of opposition or rule breaking. He derives his pleasure from violating the sanctity of someone’s personal space, maybe even watching them sleep. He doesn’t steal anything, maybe he ruffles up some files as a sort of F u. But nothing more, no crime, so no police report.

3] Something in his life changed during the holiday season - leading to an escalation in crime - fairly self explanatory.

4] The uniqueness of the stressor meant this was a one and done crime - fairly self explanatory.

In my next post, I will come onto the events of the crime itself and what inferences I draw from them.

 

[BatataPoha]

Inferences from the crime itself -

1] The first kill (Rei) was planned and executed just as the killer wanted.

The kill again is the example of a perfect crime. I find it hard to believe it wasn’t planned atleast slightly ahead. I also have a reasoning for it, which is slightly more nefarious than what has been speculated here which is this -

Rei was killed silently so that the rest of the Miyazawas won’t know he has died already. They would not bolt out of the house if something went wrong for the killer, and would always circle back to Rei’s bedroom and be within the killer’s grasp.

2] The document search was staged.

Not much physical or circumstancial evidence to prove it. Ultimately it doesn’t seem like the the father of the house would have something of a secret nature in his household, and if it was about some object , that would imply a personal connection which would have been found out now.

3] The use of the computer meant that the killer was back to his oriented self, and was again making the right decisions.

His kills were frenzied, he hurt himself and there was blood loss. But the human body can survive blood losses upto 30% before hypotension and its effects kicks in. That would amount to roughly 1.7-1.8 L of blood in a healthy young male.

People have speculated that a lot of his actions post the murders are some sort of frienzied and blood loss induced. While his initial actions might be, he clearly returns to his senses enough that he feels good enough to use a computer. You don’t use computers in someone else’s home if you are feeling dizzy, disoriented or panicking.

This is again also confirmed by his perfect exit from the house.

4] The killer is an intelligent guy, although suffering from maybe a a conduct disorder at an earlier point in life during his teens.

Pure speculation. Excellent entry and exit planning seems to again indicate a certain degree of proficiency. The disregard for rules, the safety of oneself or someone else, putting one in self harm would indicate certain tendencies of a conduct disorder although this is a wild speculation I admit.

5] My last one - The killer might be used to seeing blood in daily life.

I remember the first time I saw a lot of blood. I felt nauseous and some of my classmates fainted. However this killer is not only not perturbed by the site of dead bodies and copious amounts of blood, but also quite level headed into staging this crime and making the perfect exit.

Could this have been the work of a medical student, or someone working in the morgue? Or a slaughterhouse or meat industry?

 

[BatataPoha]

Apologies for misunderstanding there! And thank you for the compliment.

Yes, I actually do agree with you about the noise discrepancies - this comes from personal experience living in wooden buildings in and around Tokyo for multiple years too.
You can hear a pin drop. Even when someone coughs. The cold air from outside seeps in like there’s no wall at all. It was incredible to me too, even with soundproofing, that the ladder thud was the only sound heard. There are some interesting explanations posted around the thread.

But alas, that version of events was ultimately accepted and 24 years later the TMPD has found no further reason to question the Irie’s since.

I disagree with the notion that TMPD have accepted their version of events. I think they have accepted the fact that thats the max they are gonna get out of those family, and they don’t want to pursue it further which was the gripe I expressed in my original post.

I remember from Nic’s podcast that he felt the Chief wasn’t entirely convinced by the neighbour’s explaination which to me indicates that they don’t agree with that version internally, and yet for whatever reason won’t pursue it unfortunately.

 

[Incoherent]

I disagree with the notion that TMPD have accepted their version of events. I think they have accepted the fact that thats the max they are gonna get out of those family, and they don’t want to pursue it further which was the gripe I expressed in my original post.

I remember from Nic’s podcast that he felt the Chief wasn’t entirely convinced by the neighbour’s explaination which to me indicates that they don’t agree with that version internally, and yet for whatever reason won’t pursue it unfortunately.

By “accept” I mean the Irie’s did not commit or have anything to do with the murder of their family next door. They have been cleared. That is the reason.

It is possible to be unsatisfied with an explanation but to also be satisfied that there is no connection or further investigation into to the murder needed at the same time. If there were it would have been looked into already.