Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #4

[Lalalacasbah]

These are spaces at the top of the houses, usually with a ladder acting as a staircase that are usually specifically extra bedroom spaces. So in the western sense I suppose we would call it an attic, but in Japan it is called a loft and is designed as a bedroom. In this case it was Mikio and Yasuko’s bedroom.

RSBM: So it is typical in Japanese culture these lofts are commonly used as bedrooms most of the time? I think that's what you mean when you say it is typically "designed as a bedroom".

I saw this question on another forum that I never thought of but was perhaps discussed here way back (I don't recall it being asked recently):

1. How would the killer know to check the attic for the females unless they knew the family used it for a bedroom? How did he even know that's where they were?

2. How did he know the females were even home? I know typical for that day for families to stay home in the culture it sounds like (would an outsider know this and know the families are always home and together?)... the killer knew to pull down the ladder and go up there to find them. How and why? Was he roaming the house looking in every room and closet for victims to kill? No, he knew 2 victims were missing and there was a bedroom upstairs.

He must've been in the house before, no? Or just thought, the other 2 must be there?

If he was silent killing the boy and father and the females were assumed asleep, if the killer was an outsider or stranger might not think to even check the loft for victims. He must've known. So many questions! MOO, JMO

 

[BatataPoha]

Do the sisters look similar? Ann and Yasuko I mean? Could people mistake one for the other, especially back then?

 

[Eliver]

Do the sisters look similar? Ann and Yasuko I mean? Could people mistake one for the other, especially back thent

Just my opinion, but they don't look similar at all.
Also Ann Irie has a mole between her mouth and her left cheek that Yasuko didn't have.

Of course I don't know if 24 years ago they looked more similar but I don't see the resemblance nowadays.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Do the sisters look similar? Ann and Yasuko I mean? Could people mistake one for the other, especially back then?

Are you thinking wrong person was targeted?

I used to think possibly more or less a stranger that had a brief, whimsical conflict/interaction between killer and family maybe by the fish markets/mall and the killer stewed on a diss or put down, then followed then possibly and retaliated in violence...

Now I'm thinking he had more intimate knowledge of the family and knew one of them in some way. Too many things don't make sense. The whole display of the house seems almost staged/propped to look like robbery, the drawers, documents, costume/clothing sprawled everywhere, etc.

To be so comfortable to hang out and to know no one would walk in/wake up from next door or wherever. Possible he knew about the sound proofing? Possible he 100% knew no one from next door would walk over and check about any noise? To know for sure the loft was indeed a bedroom and 2 females sleeping up there?

I think TPMD know their man but their hands are tied. Hoping Nic can work some magic and get some movement with the DNA!

 

[Eliver]

I think TPMD know their man but their hands are tied.

Hard agree here.

Even more so that in other posts I've made, I want to clarify that this is only my opinion - and I think I never said it clearly here - but my stance is that the TMPD know who the perpetrator is. Or if they don't, at the very least they have strong suspicions/lead they can't pursue until the whole DNA situation changes.

Yes, they are just so top notch that I think they know everything.

All of this MOO.

 

[Eliver]

To know for sure the loft was indeed a bedroom and 2 females sleeping up there?

Re: the loft thing.

The way I see it this is not too strange.

The loft used as a bedroom is not at all uncommon here and even if the killer didn't know that, quickly roaming around the house (even 1 or 2 minutes), would have revelead that a whole bedroom was missing.

That, I think, would have triggered the search of the attic/loft even if he didn't know the women were there.

JMO.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Hard agree here.

Even more so that in other posts I've made, I want to clarify that this is only my opinion - and I think I never said it clearly here - but my stance is that the TMPD know who the perpetrator is. Or if they don't, at the very least they have strong suspicions/lead they can't pursue until the whole DNA situation changes.

Yes, they are just so top notch that I think they know everything.

All of this MOO.

Yes all MOO too I should disclaim lol....and if they know their man, must be extremely frustrating to stay tight lipped all these years.

I have to wonder if this was in North America there would be info leaks... maybe even some ex-LE would give interviews on their suspected POIs like some do with unsolved high profile cases. TPMD will stay tight lipped though.

 

[Charlot123]

Re: the loft thing.

The way I see it this is not too strange.

The loft used as a bedroom is not at all uncommon here and even if the killer didn't know that, quickly roaming around the house (even 1 or 2 minutes), would have revelead that a whole bedroom was missing.

That, I think, would have triggered the search of the attic/loft even if he didn't know the women were there.

JMO.

If people leave their shoes at the entrance, quick look at that area, and you’ll see how many people are in the house?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Re: the loft thing.

The way I see it this is not too strange.

The loft used as a bedroom is not at all uncommon here and even if the killer didn't know that, quickly roaming around the house (even 1 or 2 minutes), would have revelead that a whole bedroom was missing.

That, I think, would have triggered the search of the attic/loft even if he didn't know the women were there.

JMO.

Precisely, but only if actually a robbery don't you think? Only reason to look for other rooms would be to burgle?

But this perp wanted to kill not rob.

So I guess I see it that if a random thrill kill, he could have been satisfied and left after 2, maybe not even knowing there were 2 more.

If he was familiar with the family he would know 4 lived there and yes, true he'd go looking... but so risky to pull down the ladder, make all that noise and still not feel threatened or in a hurry to leave after!

What you say makes total sense of course, but there's still something off about this with me. MOO

 

[Eliver]

If people leave their shoes at the entrance, quick look at that area, and you’ll see how many people are in the house?

Possible.
That of course would depend of the Miyazawa's family habits: they could have either put all of their shoes at the entrance, or in a drawer/shoe cabinet (also at the entrance).

I personally do not know this information, and right now I can't recall if any picture of the entrance door from the inside exists.
I might check that later.

Or perhaps there could be an answer to this in Ann Iris's book.

 

[Charlot123]

Just my opinion, but they don't look similar at all.
Also Ann Irie has a mole between her mouth and her left cheek that Yasuko didn't have.

Of course I don't know if 24 years ago they looked more similar but I don't see the resemblance nowadays.

The walkaround movie would not show much in terms of faces, but An Irie has high nervous energy that could be viewed as attractive IRL. People who easily cry could have infectious laughter in other situations, such things. I wonder if Yasuko was of the same type, and the perpetrator could be hopelessly infatuated with her. I think the real contact was minimal. Could it be so that he hated her for generating these emotions in him?

In short: I just went and Googled, “do male hair stylists in Japan work with women’s hair?” I know so little about the customs. The answer was, yes. The reason I thought it could be someone like this is because there was something symbolic in targeting women’s faces. I don’t think he hated women. I think they attracted him but in a way, were unattainable.

ETA: something like, “you think you’re so beautiful, now get it” attitude. Also, it would seem that at least once, he was inside the house and is very observant. Unless the loft and the ladder were so typical that it was “seen one and seen them all” situation. Another thought as I am thinking, did Mikio isolate the house himself or invited someone? People working at isolation would see a lot.

As to the people and the habits, would there be a house maybe from the other side of the park, or on the opposite side, far but close enough to observe the Miyazawas? Perhaps the situation when he could not see them close up, but through binoculars or a small telescope, he could? Yasuko was complaining of the car following them; women can feel if someone observes them. Perhaps the person needed to come closer once or twice to see the details, once he had the general idea? I don’t know why the perp decided to kill them, maybe he needed to choose someone and they were easy? That was the very end of 2000, and after the Columbine, there was a surge of interest to Doom, the game EH and DK played. What do we know about young people being interested or sucked into it? Wanting to kill someone? I know that pet hating boards communications have been ruled out, but all Internet interactions are impossible to trace.

 

[Janitor101]

Why would Yasuko retract the ladder into the ceiling knowing Mikio would be needing the ladder soon in order to get to bed in the loft?

I guess he could have planned on using the couch or the empty bunk bed instead?

 

[Charlot123]

Why would Yasuko retract the ladder into the ceiling knowing Mikio would be needing the ladder soon in order to get to bed in the loft?

I guess he could have planned on using the couch or the empty bunk bed instead?

Good question. I was asking it myself. I don't know the reality of Japanese houses, but if loft is used only for sleep, the ladder should be potentially retractable from both sides, no? But that night, as i read here, Niina was sick so she slept with the mom.

 

[Incoherent]

The ladder was not retracted into the ceiling it was kept down. There isn’t a way for someone in the loft to pull it up themselves, the person would need to close it from the landing below.

Upon discovery the bottom section was found slightly retracted, making it easier for the killer to pass by on the narrow landing.

Here is an example of what I mean:

 

[Charlot123]

The ladder was not retracted into the ceiling it was kept down. There isn’t a way for someone in the loft to pull it up themselves, the person would need to close it from the landing below.

Upon discovery the bottom section was found slightly retracted, making it easier for the killer to pass by on the narrow landing.

Here is an example of what I mean:
View attachment 556045

Thank you! Makes sense and very convenient. How are they called, if you know? In Japanese?

I am reading different comments - from Slavic sites as well. Due to their heights, my family members did not feel convenient in Japan during the trip. I can't get much from them about the Japanese culture, they just went for a short time. So I have to read.

Some ideas I have never met here:

- because Japan is so safe, lots of people living there would not lock front doors or leave windows open. So the possibility of Miyazawas simply not closing the front door since Mikio was still working downstairs - is it possible to consider?
(Maybe they were not such a family, but what do we know? Any recent change of habits would be interesting, too.)

- the sequence of events after the first attack on the women is unclear to me. If I understand correctly, when the perpetrator
left for the other knife, the women either felt that he was gone, or they needed urgent help, so they went downstairs to the bathroom and locked themselves in there. But then, all articles say, he went back upstairs? But then he walked to the bathroom? Can it be explained? Did he go upstairs to check and then went down? Who left the blanket hanging? Going back to the bathroom he was accurate not to slip on blood so he walked in an odd way? Did he break down the door to the bathroom?

Also, the question about the cellphones. From what I understand, there were some in the family in 2000. Why not grab one and call the police?

One more interesting idea. I could never understand why a person who could seemingly organize it, so, was smart enough, have no clue about DNA and fingerprints. Why did he stay so long, left traces. Someone mentioned- and I wouldn't discount it - that he could well feel suicidal and planned to kill himself in the house. Homicidal people often feel closer to suicide than most of us. Take Israel Keys, for example. So could the killer have stayed that long because he did not plan to leave at all? Just planned to spend the night in an unknown home and then commit suicide there. Then this semi-lucid state went away and he changed his mind. It is not impossible. Thoughts?

Another question, do we know if Mikio or Yasuko had life insurances?

Last: if indeed the perp was Korean, did he plan to have plastic surgery afterwards? I Googled - it can alter fingerprints now, so maybe fingerprints are a nonissue. DNA is necessary.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Why would Yasuko retract the ladder into the ceiling knowing Mikio would be needing the ladder soon in order to get to bed in the loft?

I guess he could have planned on using the couch or the empty bunk bed instead?

Great question, I don't know why I thought it would be up!

 

[Charlot123]

Are you thinking wrong person was targeted?

I used to think possibly more or less a stranger that had a brief, whimsical conflict/interaction between killer and family maybe by the fish markets/mall and the killer stewed on a diss or put down, then followed then possibly and retaliated in violence...

Now I'm thinking he had more intimate knowledge of the family and knew one of them in some way. Too many things don't make sense. The whole display of the house seems almost staged/propped to look like robbery, the drawers, documents, costume/clothing sprawled everywhere, etc.

To be so comfortable to hang out and to know no one would walk in/wake up from next door or wherever. Possible he knew about the sound proofing? Possible he 100% knew no one from next door would walk over and check about any noise? To know for sure the loft was indeed a bedroom and 2 females sleeping up there?

I think TPMD know their man but their hands are tied. Hoping Nic can work some magic and get some movement with the DNA!

Very good questions. Yours and @BatataPoha 's one.

I don't think the killer would confuse the houses.

However, looking at the families... they were not 100% traditionally Japanese, were they? An Irie's family spent the time in GB, Mikio traveled a lot, Yasuko was teaching English, among other classes. Maybe to most of us, they'd appear "typically" Japanese, but from Jspanese standpoint, they must have been more exposed and open to the Western world. Curious, too?

I understand that An's family was ruled out and I don't suspect them internally. At all. But could they have European or half-European friends living in Japan? Could it include the circumstances when ha-fus could be invited into the house, because ha-fus of foreign extraction do it? Perhaps the guests could even visit Mikio's house, which is not traditional, but for the family to practice in English?

How uncommon would it be? Could such people be ruled out? Could they even be under someone's radar?

Mikio, himself being so talented, was probably in top 2% in giftedness. You don't expect such people to be "average in behavior." An's family probably spoke good English.

 

[Incoherent]

@Charlot123 the Irie’s highly likely did have friends in the UK and in Japan that were international due to their almost decade-long stint in England.

However, Yasuko in particular certainly did have people close to her who were from outside of Japan.

 

[Charlot123]

@Charlot123 the Irie’s highly likely did have friends in the UK and in Japan that were international due to their almost decade-long stint in England.

However, Yasuko in particular certainly did have people close to her who were from outside of Japan.

Thank you. That partially gives an answer - it is usually a woman who either brings friends to the house, or not. So, probably no international friends in Yasuko's house.

Do you think it is possible that she went to An's house to brush up her English with some guests of international descent?

I don't want it to be misinterpreted - An was more than likely asked all these questions. But, she may have not paid attention to the situation if it was random. Could it be one of the cases when the person was in the house, seldom, but no one realized who it was? Statistically, it is not uncommon.

 

[atomicsciencegal]

If people leave their shoes at the entrance, quick look at that area, and you’ll see how many people are in the house?

I like this thought, @Charlot123 .

I would very much appreciate if one of our thread members here could answer a question for me regarding this.

In Japanese culture, would you only ever keep the current (or that-day) pair of shoes you were currently wearing in the dedicated shoe area? Or would you tend to leave whatever shoes had made it down there since you last tidied?

In my house, eventually all the shoes end up at the front door because no one ever takes them back to their rooms, lol.