Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #4

[CliffDagger]

1) Respectfully, how do you know there was much of anything to be noticed in the first place?

My research made it clear that these murders were NOT common knowledge on-base. Back then, there was only one English language newspaper in Japan to my knowledge. American newspaper readership, while not as low as today, was not high in 2000. I don’t think there was an English language Japanese news channel. It follows, then, that many of the people that I spoke to who had been on Yokota had never heard of the Miyazawa case.

One single boy leaving around, say, graduation, or one family being rotated suddenly off base — not only does that seem like something that would go UNnoticed, it seems entirely in-keeping with the conversations I’ve had with USAF folks. I think it’s more likely someone would remember a sudden scar, let’s say, though almost certainly one with some excuse or other.

2) I’m yet to see a single poster here show me how the TMPD would even get on to a US military installation in the first place — let alone start questioning kids as young as 15.

3) My own view is this: the love of a parent for their son is often going to be stronger than ‘doing the right thing’ in the name of justice. I picture that, upon finding that his son was mixed up in a terrible crime (let alone murders that could incur execution by hanging), a parent decides to get him out of the country. This wouldn’t be the exception to the rule. I think phoning a foreign police force to turn him in would be the exception to the rule. And that’s assuming the parent even knew of the Miyazawa murders. I can envisage a scenario where the killer’s father, let’s say, sees the injury, knows the boy has been mixed up in a violent crime but buys a BS story. Maybe the father intuits it’s all lies but chooses to believe them anyway because that’s an easier world to live in.

I couldnt agree more with all of this. Especially point 3. Reading over all the details of the case the past few weeks this is exactly what's been going through my mind.

Yokota AFB appears to be like it's own self contained mini American city. It wouldn't surprise me at all that people who lived on base at the time didn't even hear about the murders.

Even if a parent was aware of what happened and realizes the true extent of what their child has done, they are going to put them on a plane back to the States. I can't see anyone handing their child over to the Japanese Police.

 

[cenazoic]

2) I’m yet to see a single poster here show me how the TMPD would even get on to a US military installation in the first place — let alone start questioning kids as young as 15.

This seems to indicate there are such provisions:

The Japanese authorities will normally not exercise the right of search, seizure, or inspection with respect to any persons or property within facilities and areas in use by and guarded under the authority of the United States armed forces or with respect to property of the United States armed forces wherever situated, except in cases where the competent authorities of the United States armed forces consent to such search, seizure, or inspection by the Japanese authorities of such persons or property.

See Article XVII for police cooperation broadly, “Accepted Minutes” for art. XVII (lower down on page) for above quote:

https://www.mofa.go.jp/region/n-america/us/q&a/ref/2.html

 

[FacelessPodcast]

This seems to indicate there are such provisions:



See Article XVII for police cooperation broadly, “Accepted Minutes” for art. XVII (lower down on page) for above quote:

https://www.mofa.go.jp/region/n-america/us/q&a/ref/2.html

Yes, @cenazoic, I’m aware of the mutual agreement. My point is: how do they, the TMPD, actually make this happen? Unless you have links or examples where this has happened in the past? Happy to be proved wrong.

I’ve spoken to a few senior journalists in Japan and they told me the same thing. The idea of the TMPD getting the permissions to get on that base to start questioning kids? “Impossible.”

I also highly doubt USAF would consent to such a venture. JMO

 

[Bobban]

@FacelessPodcast I was a little unclear but the scenario i speculated about would be if the family wasn't connected to the base and lived on japanese soil with no direct exit to the US via military.

1) Respectfully, how do you know there was much of anything to be noticed in the first place?

Yea good point. A son returning home without his jacket isn't really a big deal. The cut too would probably be easily excusable if that was even noticed.

In moo it seems more likely if they helped him that they did so unknowingly or that there already was a date set to leave the country. I would like to think parents wouldn't keep a secret like that even for their son but I would also like to think that a person can't murder an entire family.

 

[Incoherent]

His hand injury was significant enough to need medical attention. I have seen the crime scene photos myself of his blood splashed and dripped across the kitchen, landing, and toilet. If it were the family’s knife he cut himself on doubly so, as bowls of mushrooms and food were left nearby the knife and it may have been dirty already before he used it.
He used sanitary pads, tissue, and bandaids to stem the bleeding and then cling wrap to seal it all. This in itself shows he hurt himself rather badly.

There were zero reports of anyone seeking medical attention for a sliced up hand in Tokyo following the murder, besides the man in Nikko (Tochigi) who the TMPD have ruled out.
So if he did not seek any attention then the wound would have continued to be noticeable for far longer than if he had, and potentially infected too.

As for the kids at Yokota, once they graduate they have no more reason to be in Japan and will usually fly home to the US for college. Unless their family’s placement has ended they often do just fly back alone.
The murder occurred a mere few months before the end of the school year so it is likely the kids graduating already had their plans in place to leave and colleges chosen. They also fly out from the base.
It is such an easy way to avoid all detection and just leave the country.

To date there have been zero reports of the TMPD investigating the base or even going on it over this. It is the only line of questioning Nic himself has said the chief avoided. Even the comments from the Japanese public on news videos and articles about it all say the same thing: foreigner who left Japan.

24 years, 280,000 people on the case, millions fingerprinted, Interpol contacted, and even today people are stopped on the street and asked about this case.

And what does the TMPD have? Nothing and no one.

 

[Incoherent]

I would also like to add this:
Everything in that house and even in the behavior of the killer shows us he was no criminal mastermind by any means.
In any way one looks at it, it is clear a series of unlikely and unrepeatable circumstances aligned for him in order to get away with it.

Agree.

Unless he tied himself to rocks and was pulled to the bottom of the ocean and died never to resurface again, there has to be a reason why this man has seemingly vanished and remained out of sight for 24 years without so much of an inkling of suspicion about him from anyone.

He’s either the greatest mastermind of the last two decades or he isn’t in Japan.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

One single boy leaving around, say, graduation, or one family being rotated suddenly off base — not only does that seem like something that would go UNnoticed, it seems entirely in-keeping with the conversations I’ve had with USAF folks. I think it’s more likely someone would remember a sudden scar, let’s say, though almost certainly one with some excuse or other.

RSBM: This is I get but I think it would matter if the killer left right after the murder (January) or did stay until graduation. I think a wound that big would get some attention from a teacher, teammates or group of pals as it would likely take forever to heal with or without stitches. I was injured/cut in a car accident and as well by an old lock on a door in a heritage home that jammed (weird I know, it shocked me!) and sliced me open pretty good. One injury had stitches, the other did not - and they still took a long time to heal. We would assume the killer maybe wore long sleeves to cover up a wound but if he was an avid sports player, that might be hard to hide. Just my thoughts!

3) My own view is this: the love of a parent for their son is often going to be stronger than ‘doing the right thing’ in the name of justice. I picture that, upon finding that his son was mixed up in a terrible crime (let alone murders that could incur execution by hanging), a parent decides to get him out of the country. This wouldn’t be the exception to the rule. I think phoning a foreign police force to turn him in would be the exception to the rule. And that’s assuming the parent even knew of the Miyazawa murders. I can envisage a scenario where the killer’s father, let’s say, sees the injury, knows the boy has been mixed up in a violent crime but buys a BS story. Maybe the father intuits it’s all lies but chooses to believe them anyway because that’s an easier world to live in.

My take is this - if the parents didn't know it was something as grave as a murder, there would be no need to leave the country in a hurry. Even petty crime, would someone really leave their post if son wasn't caught for something minor? If he did BS his folks (sporting, skating, motorcycle or 'dumb fun' accident), they might fix him up or laugh it off but they would feel no need to leave the country. The parents must've known the severity if a planned leave. Unless they were already scheduled to leave and the killer did the crime knowing that.

 

[Bobban]

@Incoherent ah right and getting the medical records of people treated on base would be a bureaucratic nightmare for TMPD and major privacy concern for the US.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

His hand injury was significant enough to need medical attention. I have seen the crime scene photos myself of his blood splashed and dripped across the kitchen, landing, and toilet. If it were the family’s knife he cut himself on doubly so, as bowls of mushrooms and food were left nearby the knife and it may have been dirty already before he used it.
He used sanitary pads, tissue, and bandaids to stem the bleeding and then cling wrap to seal it all. This in itself shows he hurt himself rather badly.

RSBM: I can't remember if already mentioned/asked. They have a hospital on base, he could have went there with a BS story. Of course those files would be private too.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

@Incoherent ah right and getting the medical records of people treated on base would be a bureaucratic nightmare for TMPD and major privacy concern for the US.

Haha I was typing a similar comment about the base hospital but you beat me to it!

 

[Eliver]

RSBM: This is I get but I think it would matter if the killer left right after the murder (January) or did stay until graduation. I think a wound that big would get some attention from a teacher, teammates or group of pals as it would likely take forever to heal with or without stitches. I was injured/cut in a car accident and as well by an old lock on a door in a heritage home that jammed (weird I know, it shocked me!) and sliced me open pretty good. One injury had stitches, the other did not - and they still took a long time to heal. We would assume the killer maybe wore long sleeves to cover up a wound but if he was an avid sports player, that might be hard to hide. Just my thoughts!

My take is this - if the parents didn't know it was something as grave as a murder, there would be no need to leave the country in a hurry. Even petty crime, would someone really leave their post if son wasn't caught for something minor? If he did BS his folks (sporting, skating, motorcycle or 'dumb fun' accident), they might fix him up or laugh it off but they would feel no need to leave the country. The parents must've known the severity if a planned leave. Unless they were already scheduled to leave and the killer did the crime knowing that.

But what if only he left and the parents stayed in Japan (even just for a while, aka one or two years)?
If he really graduated but the military parent still had time to serve, why not just send the son to college in advance to the States?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

But what if only he left and the parents stayed in Japan (even just for a while, aka one or two years)?
If he really graduated but the military parent still had time to serve, why not just send the son to college in advance to the States?

True that! And most likely the case.

 

[Captain Hastings]

I agree with @FacelessPodcast. Parents will go to great lengths to protect their children, and there's no guarantee they would even suspect he was involved at the time. Something as simple as saying he fell off his bike could be enough for them to dismiss the wounds. Perhaps he told them he cut himself chopping some food? Plenty of excuses are available. I certainly don't think you would jump straight to the conclusion that he's been involved in a mass murder, especially if you haven't even heard about the deaths and the son is only 15-18. Without clear cut evidence I think it would take a while before you suspected such a thing and it's even possible they never got to that point. My personal view is the killer was probably scheduled to leave soon anyways, perhaps why he chose that time to commit the murders. Either the parents didn't suspect anything immediately or they did but didn't question anything in order to protect their son.

Look at the Harry Dunn case in the UK. Anne Sacoolas (the wife of an intelligence agent working on a US base) killed him driving on the wrong side of the road and very shortly afterwards fled the country to avoid justice. And that was with the US and UK authorities knowing what had happened.

 

[Incoherent]

But what if only he left and the parents stayed in Japan (even just for a while, aka one or two years)?
If he really graduated but the military parent still had time to serve, why not just send the son to college in advance to the States?

This is the exact case for those military kids sometimes. If they have family back in the US to help out, like grandparents, it’s even easier to do.

@Incoherent ah right and getting the medical records of people treated on base would be a bureaucratic nightmare for TMPD and major privacy concern for the US.

Exactly. And now what if his parent was part of medical on the base, and very high ranking? Would anyone have to know anything about cleaning his kid up?

 

[lilykaluva]

I think it would matter if the killer left right after the murder (January) or did stay until graduation. I think a wound that big would get some attention from a teacher, teammates or group of pals as it would likely take forever to heal with or without stitches.

I agree to an extent--I do think it's most likely he left sooner rather than later post-crime. Though I do think that if the person's parent was medical and patched up the injury themselves, then while friends and teachers might notice a bandage, they may not know anything beyond that and that's not the kind of thing people tend to remember without a reason. The perpetrator could easily have concocted a boring story about how they got it; especially if it's concealed by a bandage, he could lie about the severity too. If he saw a limited number of people and those people had no reason to really take note of it (again going by Nic's statement that most people on Yokota didn't know about the case, and with no knowledge of the severity), they may have not had any reason to think very in-depth about seeing a bandage that he says happened from a broken beer bottle or a cooking accident or something, and may no longer remember it...

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I agree to an extent--I do think it's most likely he left sooner rather than later post-crime. Though I do think that if the person's parent was medical and patched up the injury themselves, then while friends and teachers might notice a bandage, they may not know anything beyond that and that's not the kind of thing people tend to remember without a reason. The perpetrator could easily have concocted a boring story about how they got it; especially if it's concealed by a bandage, he could lie about the severity too. If he saw a limited number of people and those people had no reason to really take note of it (again going by Nic's statement that most people on Yokota didn't know about the case, and with no knowledge of the severity), they may have not had any reason to think very in-depth about seeing a bandage that he says happened from a broken beer bottle or a cooking accident or something, and may no longer remember it...

I know we've all been talking about his hand being wounded, has this been 100% confirmed it was his hand anyone know? And was it TMPD that said this?

Not wrist, forearm, upper arm or other body part? I imagine this is in the thread somewhere... forgive my laziness (more lack of time haha) to look!!

 

[Incoherent]

I know we've all been talking about his hand being wounded, has this been 100% confirmed it was his hand anyone know? And was it TMPD that said this?

Not wrist, forearm, upper arm or other body part? I imagine this is in the thread somewhere... forgive my laziness (more lack of time haha) to look!!

Right hand yes, his glove was full of blood in the lower part and the wound was not insignificant.
Nic has the exact places he was wounded and there was somewhere else I believe but I think again on his hand.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Right hand yes, his glove was full of blood in the lower part and the wound was not insignificant.
Nic has the exact places he was wounded and there was somewhere else I believe but I think again on his hand.

Thanks @Incoherent I couldn't remember at all the details on that injury.

 

[Incoherent]

Thanks @Incoherent I couldn't remember at all the details on that injury.

In the documentary it’s said he injured his right hand after attacking Niina, but from what I recall it doesn’t elaborate on whether that was the loft or landing or why her specifically. Perhaps some of her blood was on the glove too.

It also doesn’t say which knife he injured himself with, however from pictures it doesn’t seem there’s any blood on the snapped half of the sashimi knife with the handle so it may have been the kitchen knife that cut him.

But it does mean that until the final attacks he still had his gloves on.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

In the documentary it’s said he injured his right hand after attacking Niina, but from what I recall it doesn’t elaborate on whether that was the loft or landing or why her specifically. Perhaps some of her blood was on the glove too.

It also doesn’t say which knife he injured himself with, however from pictures it doesn’t seem there’s any blood on the snapped half of the sashimi knife with the handle so it may have been the kitchen knife that cut him.

But it does mean that until the final attacks he still had his gloves on.

I didn't finish the documentary and thought maybe not a good watch if translation is so off.

Oh wow, that is sad to hear Possible kitchen knife wasn't as 'grippable' with gloves so his hand slid or he was using more force. Maybe her blood wasn't just on the glove but in the glove?

Excellent point about gloves remaining on up until the end sounds like.