Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #4

[brow3665]

I have a question.

I think that indeed, he is a hedonistic-killer type, but I have read, in conjunction with a local “cat killer”, that such murders - of soft, kind animals - would be the precursor to killing women. But in this case, I am thinking of Rei as a small, soft subject, and an expected move from a “precursory behavior” that you have mentioned.

What I can’t understand is whether the observation of mutilated/dead animals in the Soshigaya park is real. The police has ruled out conversations on “pet-hating boards”, it seems, but what about stories about mutilated cats around the house? Were there dead animals around? Because if there was such an incidence, at least once, then the chain I see is: the feathers and guano of birds in his bag (probably smothering the birds) ——> cats in the park ——-> Rei. The rest of the family is different, and maybe the anger has to do with him being “interrupted” by Mikio?

I can’t tell who he is, no clue about the base. I do think there should be a mother/grandmother in the picture; I have an intuitive feeling of how he comes across. Not the traits, but the general impression. And, I, too, feel that he is a loner, but of a quiet and typical sort, so if he is walking down the river, no one would get scared, but he is the one to carry a half-alive bird in his bag and none the wiser. JMO.

Did he tell anyone about it? You think he did. MOO, if he is smart - then, no. But he is the type to hint at “urges” or say things to girls implying autoerotic play. Such stuff. So people are left scared and somewhat confused, but hoping it was a joke, you know? I am sure that his family has heard something, but hopes these are his strange jokes, because he makes them, too. JMO.

I agree with your intuition of how he comes across and I feel the same about how he probably makes sick "jokes" and comments... and this is how I would imagine he has "told" someone about the murders.

The animal abuse seems unrelated in this situation but I personally do not believe this was his first or last attack.

 

[Charlot123]

I don't know how common this belief is among people very familiar with this case, but from what I have seen so far, I do not believe that the sand actually came from Edwards AFB. When we're talking about bullet or blood evidence, that's one thing, but soil/sand is completely another. I'm far from familiar with anything related to sand forensics, but given the obviously quite vast amount of it out there, I would need to see an extremely detailed breakdown of how they know the sand came exactly from there, and, even more importantly, how they know it could not have come from anywhere else. It just doesn't seem possible to me; this is not something like ballistics where the process for tracing it is relatively straightforward because there's a much more limited number of possibilities and you can trace a casing or whatever to just one weapon. I still think it is certainly possible given that they were able to match it to the sand at that base, but that is far from enough to say with certainty that it is from there and could not have been from anywhere else in the world.

I am ready to accept any version because, honestly, the police has the main key to the case - the DNA! - and doesn’t know much about the killer. So any version fits. The airbase as much as a local guy.

BTW, I checked the cruises to Yokohama. From any country of the world, the best time is Sep-Nov but they sail in winter, too. The biggest attraction in winter is the cheaper cost. There are even cruises from California. Some of them sail via Alaska to see the gleisers but probably not a super funny thing in winter, some sail through other Asian countries or directly. Some ships moor in Yokohama but some in Tokyo. BTW the drive from Yokohama to central Tokyo is 33 min and to Setagaya 30 min. Anyhow, much as I don’t like cruises, on “closed loop” ones the passports are not even needed. As to Asian cruises, I don’t know how the security is/was. Of course you need the passport if you are left behind. But when do you disembark/embark, how well do they check the passports? In short, honestly, I am not sure that the plane from one base to another one was the only way to leave Japan unnoticed/unfingerprinted after the Setagaya murders. The airports have better border control, this is true, but boats or car/ferries are available. I am wondering if there is/was lax security between, say, Japan and Taiwan, or such?

 

[Eliver]

I don't know how common this belief is among people very familiar with this case, but from what I have seen so far, I do not believe that the sand actually came from Edwards AFB. When we're talking about bullet or blood evidence, that's one thing, but soil/sand is completely another. I'm far from familiar with anything related to sand forensics, but given the obviously quite vast amount of it out there, I would need to see an extremely detailed breakdown of how they know the sand came exactly from there, and, even more importantly, how they know it could not have come from anywhere else. It just doesn't seem possible to me; this is not something like ballistics where the process for tracing it is relatively straightforward because there's a much more limited number of possibilities and you can trace a casing or whatever to just one weapon. I still think it is certainly possible given that they were able to match it to the sand at that base, but that is far from enough to say with certainty that it is from there and could not have been from anywhere else in the world.

IIRC, Faceless podcast actually goes into detail on this, explaining something I had no idea about (and I remember even Nicolas expressing his surprise), which is the fact that an expert geologist is capable of telling with certainty where sand comes from thanks to unique characteristics of the sand and the terrain it comes from, therefore finding out the sand almost certainly came from Edward Air Base.

According to the expert on the podcast, sand has very unique characteristics that ties them to specific terrains with little to no margin of error.

I don't remember all the details discussed in Faceless but it was something among those lines.

 

[Frankie Hellis]

I don't know how common this belief is among people very familiar with this case, but from what I have seen so far, I do not believe that the sand actually came from Edwards AFB. When we're talking about bullet or blood evidence, that's one thing, but soil/sand is completely another. I'm far from familiar with anything related to sand forensics, but given the obviously quite vast amount of it out there, I would need to see an extremely detailed breakdown of how they know the sand came exactly from there, and, even more importantly, how they know it could not have come from anywhere else. It just doesn't seem possible to me; this is not something like ballistics where the process for tracing it is relatively straightforward because there's a much more limited number of possibilities and you can trace a casing or whatever to just one weapon. I still think it is certainly possible given that they were able to match it to the sand at that base, but that is far from enough to say with certainty that it is from there and could not have been from anywhere else in the world.

IIRC, sand is made up of fragments of crustaceans and cartilages and bones and stuff (the scientific word “stuff”). It is those fragments that allow an expert to trace it to a specific location.

 

[Incoherent]

Not directly related but bears some similarities that I thought others might find interesting.

The Sora no kai website just linked a searchable map of unresolved murder cases in Japan, and when I checked Setagaya it lists the murder of an old woman just 3 months before the Miyazawa family murder on September 27th 2000. She lived about a 15 minute walk away from them.
The victim was strangled to death in her bed and the culprit stole her bank books and also withdrew cash. On the sofa and floor in the Miyazawa house were a collection of their bank books and cards too.
The difference here is that the person was caught on a security camera withdrawing cash and appears to be a woman.

I’m sure we’d have heard it if this was related in any way but I found the circumstances eerily similar.

If your devices support translation it might be an interesting source for some to check out.

 

[Charlot123]

Not directly related but bears some similarities that I thought others might find interesting.

The Sora no kai website just linked a searchable map of unresolved murder cases in Japan, and when I checked Setagaya it lists the murder of an old woman just 3 months before the Miyazawa family murder on September 27th 2000. She lived about a 15 minute walk away from them.
The victim was strangled to death in her bed and the culprit stole her bank books and also withdrew cash. On the sofa and floor in the Miyazawa house were a collection of their bank books and cards too.
The difference here is that the person was caught on a security camera withdrawing cash and appears to be a woman.

I’m sure we’d have heard it if this was related in any way but I found the circumstances eerily similar.

If your devices support translation it might be an interesting source for some to check out.

Did they collect any DNA? Vacuumed fingerprints? What if that woman’s DNA and the Miyazawas killer’s DNA are “relatives”? Plus, the woman withdrawing the cash may not necessarily be the killer.

It may be unrelated, of course, but you know what’s interesting?

How many break-ins with violent murders used to happen in Setagaya in 2000?

P.S. I can’t search the map now, but hopefully, will be able soon. Sometimes the system works, at other times, it doesn’t.

 

[Charlot123]

I agree with your intuition of how he comes across and I feel the same about how he probably makes sick "jokes" and comments... and this is how I would imagine he has "told" someone about the murders.

The animal abuse seems unrelated in this situation but I personally do not believe this was his first or last attack.

I agree. I wonder, though, if he changed the modus operandi. Turned into a trail killer or such.

It might have been his first human attack, because he made quite a mess, tbh. But I agree that it probably wasn’t his last one.

You know what surprises me? They have his excrements. If they wonder whether he was living in Japan/not in Japan/typical Japanese/not Japanese, why didn’t they analyze his gut microbiota?

The “maps” of typical gut microbiomes for different countries exist, moreover, they have not only samples from different Asian/African/European/Etc countries, but differences between high-and low-income groups. I bet Japanese scientists themselves contributed, too.

Moreover, they can tell if he is a vegetarian or not, and predominant diet.

I hope they did it or at least kept the “product” in a frozen form.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

IIRC, Faceless podcast actually goes into detail on this, explaining something I had no idea about (and I remember even Nicolas expressing his surprise), which is the fact that an expert geologist is capable of telling with certainty where sand comes from thanks to unique characteristics of the sand and the terrain it comes from, therefore finding out the sand almost certainly came from Edward Air Base.

According to the expert on the podcast, sand has very unique characteristics that ties them to specific terrains with little to no margin of error.

I don't remember all the details discussed in Faceless but it was something among those lines.

I remember that as well I think on this thread somewhere too - they can nail down a grain of sand pretty much which is pretty amazing.

Now I'm wondering though, was it actually traced to Edwards Air Base or only the Mojave desert area? I'll have to try to go look that up, I can't remember.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I remember from An’s book she said that although she and her son returned from the UK in April 2000 her husband didn’t until less than a week before the murders occurred. They had been away for around 8 years at that point. If it were anything related to the husband I’m not sure the window of time would be big enough for an overseas disgruntled coworker to act on him and his family by the 30th. JMO.

RSBM: The timing is interesting though.... less than a week... I do think the house could look like one residence from the outside, but that's just me and not fully knowing this is commonplace in Japan.

You also mentioned the names were on the plates/house. Unless someone wasn't super versed in Japanese language, living arrangements and names (like the internet search) - could be mistaken family.

But it's a hard sell, I agree. The logistics don't make sense. I still find it interesting to ponder though and still might keep this angle in mind!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Not directly related but bears some similarities that I thought others might find interesting.

The Sora no kai website just linked a searchable map of unresolved murder cases in Japan, and when I checked Setagaya it lists the murder of an old woman just 3 months before the Miyazawa family murder on September 27th 2000. She lived about a 15 minute walk away from them.
The victim was strangled to death in her bed and the culprit stole her bank books and also withdrew cash. On the sofa and floor in the Miyazawa house were a collection of their bank books and cards too.
The difference here is that the person was caught on a security camera withdrawing cash and appears to be a woman.

I’m sure we’d have heard it if this was related in any way but I found the circumstances eerily similar.

If your devices support translation it might be an interesting source for some to check out.

IF related do you think a practice run or just someone comfortable and living around the area doing B&E's?

Not to be too morbid but strangling someone might be easier (and less messy) on someone more defenseless/weak or vulnerable but very hard if a victim is fit or strong. If this was related, maybe for the next break in/attack the culprit brought a knife to be more armed?

 

[Eliver]

RSBM: The timing is interesting though.... less than a week... I do think the house could look like one residence from the outside, but that's just me and not fully knowing this is commonplace in Japan.

You also mentioned the names were on the plates/house. Unless someone wasn't super versed in Japanese language, living arrangements and names (like the internet search) - could be mistaken family.

But it's a hard sell, I agree. The logistics don't make sense. I still find it interesting to ponder though and still might keep this angle in mind!

The Miyazawa name plate was written (and still is) in Latin alphabet

 

[Incoherent]

Did they collect any DNA? Vacuumed fingerprints? What if that woman’s DNA and the Miyazawas killer’s DNA are “relatives”? Plus, the woman withdrawing the cash may not necessarily be the killer.

The case seems to have made no noise at all. Surface level searching only produces a yearly tweet from the Seijo police requesting any help or tips for the case, that’s it. No more info about it.

Now I'm wondering though, was it actually traced to Edwards Air Base or only the Mojave desert area? I'll have to try to go look that up, I can't remember.

It isn’t explicitly reported as from EAFB, but from the surrounding Mojave desert. The sand in question does exist and is reported on the TMPD’s official page, but it’s reported that it couldn’t be matched to any sand sample in Japan and bears a “very close” likeness to sand found in California.

You also mentioned the names were on the plates/house. Unless someone wasn't super versed in Japanese language, living arrangements and names (like the internet search) - could be mistaken family.

The Miyazawa nameplate is written in English and the Irie nameplate (not real family name) is written in Japanese. It’s just a personal preference which to use and you can see both types everywhere here.

IF related do you think a practice run or just someone comfortable and living around the area doing B&E's?

I’m gonna say no it isn’t related at all or we’d hear about it. But despite the similar circumstances and closeness in time has made little to no noise and info seems hard to come by online, at least now. I can barely find anything but if I search harder maybe I can. I’m sure it made the newspaper back in 2000 but perhaps due to overshadowing it quickly faded out as a story.

 

[RobertCatesby]

Not directly related but bears some similarities that I thought others might find interesting.

The Sora no kai website just linked a searchable map of unresolved murder cases in Japan, and when I checked Setagaya it lists the murder of an old woman just 3 months before the Miyazawa family murder on September 27th 2000. She lived about a 15 minute walk away from them.
The victim was strangled to death in her bed and the culprit stole her bank books and also withdrew cash. On the sofa and floor in the Miyazawa house were a collection of their bank books and cards too.
The difference here is that the person was caught on a security camera withdrawing cash and appears to be a woman.

I’m sure we’d have heard it if this was related in any way but I found the circumstances eerily similar.

If your devices support translation it might be an interesting source for some to check out.

Is the camera footage available on YT on anywhere online? I don't think the first killer looking like a women on probably grainy CCTV rules out a connection, they could have used some kind of disguise, be a male with long hair, etc.

 

[Charlot123]

Is the camera footage available on YT on anywhere online? I don't think the first killer looking like a women on probably grainy CCTV rules out a connection, they could have used some kind of disguise, be a male with long hair, etc.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a woman involved. A woman who has the alibi for the time of the murder and “found” the card somewhere. However, the card of an old woman has few DNAs on it - all can be lifted and compared to the killer in Setagaya. Also, if the woman is/was young, check her boyfriend, etc.

So what did they do with the footage? Just sit on it because of the privacy?

 

[Incoherent]

There doesn’t seem to be anything further on the case without potentially going to look through physical newspaper archives at a library, just this tweet from Seijo police requesting information. Nothing else I can find online as of yet.

 

[Charlot123]

IF related do you think a practice run or just someone comfortable and living around the area doing B&E's?

Not to be too morbid but strangling someone might be easier (and less messy) on someone more defenseless/weak or vulnerable but very hard if a victim is fit or strong. If this was related, maybe for the next break in/attack the culprit brought a knife to be more armed?

Well, I think no one does B&E without finding some information about the house. There has to be a certain “tipster” for the thief. Someone who knows that the old woman lives alone, is frail and has the money.

Someone speaking Japanese. And looking Asian enough.

Maybe it is a bank or a grocery store the old woman visited?

 

[Charlot123]

Here is a totally different theory. A young strong person probably a male who is sent to the houses of somewhat vulnerable people, to kill and steal. And he’s done it, once or twice.

What has changed in Miyazawa’s house?

Irie’s mother was living alone for a while. And, she was an old woman.

Perhaps the thieves had several addresses? And didn’t hit them immediately? And when they “tagged” the Miyazawa’s house, they knew that the mom was living alone?

And they sent the “muscleman”? Who, being young and not too smart, confused the adjacent the houses? His job, after all, is not to read the names, his job is to kill and steal.

Before the New Year, any house is a decent goal as they send cash in special envelopes in Japan. So the dude enters, tries to strangle who he thinks is a vulnerable person and soon, realizes that it is the next house? And he made a bloodbath and killed four people?

So he was shocked, too, as much as he could. Messed up. And probably soon, the group moved somewhere else. Just because it became dangerous to stay in the area.

As to the sand: does it make sense to check if there were similar patterns of break-ins around the Edward’s base or the Mojave desert, CA and Nevada, before 2000?

It can be a band of thieves and not a “thrill killer”, after all.

Also, @Incoherent, maybe there is a way to look at the map between the two addresses? The stores, the banks, anything in between? Did both Haruko and the slain old lady have a similar hobby (e.g., painting and buying watercolors, or crafting?).

It could be a place like Jo-Ann Fabric in the US, where women come to buy materials and patterns, and talk between themselves.

 

[Same Old Stella]

Here is a totally different theory. A young strong person probably a male who is sent to the houses of somewhat vulnerable people, to kill and steal. And he’s done it, once or twice.

What has changed in Miyazawa’s house?

Irie’s mother was living alone for a while. And, she was an old woman.

Perhaps the thieves had several addresses? And didn’t hit them immediately? And when they “tagged” the Miyazawa’s house, they knew that the mom was living alone?

And they sent the “muscleman”? Who, being young and not too smart, confused the adjacent the houses? His job, after all, is not to read the names, his job is to kill and steal.

Before the New Year, any house is a decent goal as they send cash in special envelopes in Japan. So the dude enters, tries to strangle who he thinks is a vulnerable person and soon, realizes that it is the next house? And he made a bloodbath and killed four people?

So he was shocked, too, as much as he could. Messed up. And probably soon, the group moved somewhere else. Just because it became dangerous to stay in the area.

As to the sand: does it make sense to check if there were similar patterns of break-ins around the Edward’s base or the Mojave desert, CA and Nevada, before 2000?

It can be a band of thieves and not a “thrill killer”, after all.

Also, @Incoherent, maybe there is a way to look at the map between the two addresses? The stores, the banks, anything in between? Did both Haruko and the slain old lady have a similar hobby (e.g., painting and buying watercolors, or crafting?).

It could be a place like Jo-Ann Fabric in the US, where women come to buy materials and patterns, and talk between themselves.

If it was a band of thieves and this one guy messed up this badly, I would imagine that the gang "got rid of him". Could be why he's never been caught.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

1. Ignoring the fact that there is not a single trace of any other person of interest either inside or out of the house, what sort of thief would approach a family house at a time when it’s obvious people will be present? Speculation is one thing, but I’m yet to find a single compelling reason whatsoever to believe this was some sort of joint enterprise.

2. What sort of thief encounters a sleeping child and, instead of leaving, immediately commits murder?

3. If the murder of this elderly woman the previous September had *anything* to do with the Miyazawa case, we would already know about it. Does the DNA at that location match our case? Do the prints? In what world would a connection between these cases (or any other in the city) not be immediately eliminated? Moreover, it has been made explicitly clear that the Miyazawa’s murderer has not committed a known crime in Japan either before or after the massacre. Or, if he did, he left zero trace behind (which is not exactly his forte given Setagaya).

4. If the killer’s goal were financial, why did he leave a greater amount behind than the amount he stole? That larger stash was in plain view of him by the computer which we know he used. Whatever the identity of the killer of the elderly lady, what did they immediately do? Withdraw that cash. As @Incoherent
says, that case isn’t widely-known at all. Yet they found a trail for the killer. As of 2024, the TMPD has put 289,000 personnel on this case—moved heaven and earth. Yet not a single bit of CCTV or images from an ATM. Could it be that the Miyazawa murderer didn’t give a flying fig about their cash?

5. As per my podcast with an expert in break-ins, none of the details in this case made sense to him for that to be the motive. Why bring a lethal weapon along? Why bring a bag which will only allow you to carry a limited amount of valuables? If the goal were money, then why did it seem so important for the killer to enter this house in particular? Money is money, why kill a whole family and leave the majority behind? If there were any sort of evidence of some sort of murderous band of thieves, where is it?

 

[Charlot123]

If it was a band of thieves and this one guy messed up this badly, I would imagine that the gang "got rid of him". Could be why he's never been caught.

I was thinking of it, too. Perhaps, trained another one and changed the "style". But, we don't know. I think that it is possible to find out the place where the Miyazawas/or Haruko/that old woman could cross paths.

The Tokyo police has a lot to know more about the man. Even if he is dead, where was he last seen/who he was connected with.

Take stool samples. i would be shocked if they didn't study the microbiota. The best place in Asia to consult, per literature, should be the University of Singapore, but even to consult with the University of Tokyo is reasonable.