Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000

[Charlot123]

I am a dunce when it comes to science -- don't they also use saliva to determine ancestry? 23andMe etc.

Because there would have been saliva in the house as well as faeces, blood, and hair.

Not a professional in genealogy (worked at own family trees in pre-Covid times), just my two cents:
they can extract nuclear DNA from saliva, blood and hair bulbs. Of interest, as early as in 2002 scientists reported isolating nuclear DNA, of various quality, from feces. (I don’t know how good old stool samples might be, though). In general. it would seem that the murderer left enough.

Just my observation, commercial companies like 23@me and even big genealogy bases like Gedmatch, still work better for European ancestry as opposed to Asian. However, there exist huge Asian databases. I know WeGene, and it is excellent for Asian ancestry. JMO. In cases of mixed Asian/European heritage, it would seem prudent to use different databases for different components. (Again, MOO and experience). But any good commercial company would be able to provide the percentages, so one could tell if the European component is from one of parents, or grandparents, or more ancient ancestors.

 

[Sillybilly]

Pretty sure blood has DNA in it

White blood cells contain DNA, red blood cells don't.

Blood is an excellent source of human DNA. DNA is present in white blood cells of humans, but not red blood cells which lack nuclei. A dime-sized spot of blood, approximately 50 µl in volume, is enough DNA for a typical VNTR analysis.

and

Which of the following is NOT a potential source of DNA for forensic analysis?

A. hair roots
B. red blood cells
Although blood is an excellent source of DNA, the DNA does not come from the red blood cells, as these cells have no nuclei. Rather, the DNA comes chiefly from white blood cells in the blood.
C. epithelial cells in urine
D. muscle tissue
E. saliva

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Dear @FacelessPodcast,

Thank you very much for this wealth of knowledge about Miyazawa’s murders. I found out about the case about a week ago, it is very tragic. I have a question, I linked a part of your post. Excuse me for cutting the part I needed for brevity; it is about “witnesses”.



Here is my question. If, and it seems so, Tokyo police considered this episode most significantly related to the murder case, surely the station workers who helped the injured man could tell if he was a native Japanese speaker? He refused to go to the hospital, he should have said enough.

It would rule out some questions regarding the assailant having cursory knowledge of Japanese, or even being fluent, but non-native, speaker, as opposed to Japanese being his mother tongue.

Thank you for your kind post, Charlot! In answer to your question, I'm afraid I don't know how seriously the TMPD took the witness at Tōbu-Nikkō Station. As I understand it, they took some time to send someone out to take a statement there. Which makes no sense to me, it could be that because this was NYE or maybe the 1st of Jan, this one fell through the cracks?

So, I can't confirm that the TMPD considered this lead to be promising or not. Only that the other two 'witnesses' seemed like they were dismissed.

But yes, in theory, even if the killer had a brief conversation with the station employee, they would have surely noticed an accent or some such. I've never been able to get a description of the man with the injured hand at the station. (It is on my list of places to visit to find out more, though...)

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Not a professional in genealogy (worked at own family trees in pre-Covid times), just my two cents:
they can extract nuclear DNA from saliva, blood and hair bulbs. Of interest, as early as in 2002 scientists reported isolating nuclear DNA, of various quality, from feces. (I don’t know how good old stool samples might be, though). In general. it would seem that the murderer left enough.

Just my observation, commercial companies like 23@me and even big genealogy bases like Gedmatch, still work better for European ancestry as opposed to Asian. However, there exist huge Asian databases. I know WeGene, and it is excellent for Asian ancestry. JMO. In cases of mixed Asian/European heritage, it would seem prudent to use different databases for different components. (Again, MOO and experience). But any good commercial company would be able to provide the percentages, so one could tell if the European component is from one of parents, or grandparents, or more ancient ancestors.

And thanks again, Charlot! I'd never heard of WeGene. And yes, I would love to know if the TMPD have tried international databases / CODIS so on. It would seem strange to mention his European heritage but then NOT follow up on that so I have to imagine they've tried...

 

[Smkd]

I don’t mean to be rude or dismissive when I say this, but I’ve been wondering if since this happened in Japan the investigators working the case are a bit less experienced in dealing with cases of this nature. Japan has famously low rates of violent crime, and from what I’ve read they rely a lot on confessions. So maybe, the average investigator in Tokyo is less experienced in dealing with crimes like this one, compared to an investigator in NYC or London for example. I wonder if they have considered bringing in investigators from other countries, since this seems like the type of case that would benefit from being looked at by a fresh pair of eyes.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I don’t mean to be rude or dismissive when I say this, but I’ve been wondering if since this happened in Japan the investigators working the case are a bit less experienced in dealing with cases of this nature. Japan has famously low rates of violent crime, and from what I’ve read they rely a lot on confessions. So maybe, the average investigator in Tokyo is less experienced in dealing with crimes like this one, compared to an investigator in NYC or London for example. I wonder if they have considered bringing in investigators from other countries, since this seems like the type of case that would benefit from being looked at by a fresh pair of eyes.

Yes, Smkd. Clearly, violent homicides are few and far between in Japan. And home invasion murders of this nature are extremely rare occurrences anywhere, let alone in Japan. As I said to Evilwise, I want to be very clear it's not my intention to criticise anyone here but just going on the statistics alone, you wonder if there was a 'playbook' for the local police responding to this. Particularly given the time of year it happened.

And totally agree, I think one of the things that people not familiar with the Japanese legal system don't realise is that the conviction rate sits above 99%. I spoke to a court reporter in Japan (although not in Tokyo) and he told me that in a typical year, of about 800 cases, he would see 1 person go free.

 

[Jade]

These may be repeat postings but here are links with some information I found to be of interest:

Twice a week, Miyazawa had traveled for two hours by train and bus from her home in Saitama Prefecture to take care of the children while her son and daughter-in-law worked.

When she exited the bus at a stop nearest to the house, the two children who were waiting outside would run toward her, saying, “Grandma.”

She let the children play in a park before she prepared dinner. They always ate all the food she cooked. The grandchildren baked cakes for her for Christmas and her birthday.
​

‘Why can’t it be solved?’ Still no suspect in 2000 killing of family | The Asahi Shimbun: Breaking News, Japan News and Analysis

The MPD suspects the motive was money and goods because bank cards and other items were found spread out in the home.
>>>>
The perpetrator is believed to be a male around 170 centimeters tall​

Ex-detective in Setagaya family murders still supports mother | The Asahi Shimbun: Breaking News, Japan News and Analysis

around that same time, an eyewitnesses walking by the park that ran directly behind the Miyazawas’ house claimed to have heard the sounds of a family argument. The sounds, the eyewitness said, were coming from the Miyazawa house. Another eyewitness said that they saw some unidentified man run behind the Miyazawa house.[3]
>>>>>



Police found that the killer’s clothes had been purchased in Kanagawa Prefecture but had been washed in a manner that was not common in Japan. This latter fact led many to believe that the killer was a foreign national.
>>>>>


Prior to the murders, Mikio Miyazawa had engaged in several heated arguments with young skateboarders who frequented the skate park behind the family’s house. In particular, eyewitnesses said that Mikio often confronted the teenage skateboarders for making too much noise. One eyewitness also said that
that Mikio had done the same thing to members of a local motorcycle gang who were hanging out in the skate park.[7]
>>>>>


Also, forensic testing of the clothes left behind by the killer at the crime scene indicated that they had been washed with mineral-rich hard water, a type of cleaning water common in South Korea but uncommon in Japan.
​

10 Gruesome Facts Of The Setagaya Family Mystery - Listverse

On his clothes, there were traces of zelkova leaves and bird droppings. In his bum bag, there were sand grains from the Mojave desert, the other side of the planet.​

The real life story behind Blue Light Yokohama: Part 2

the mother of Yasuko Miyazawa, who lived next door, repeatedly buzzed her daughter on the intercom.
​

New book claims to shed light on Setagaya family murders in 2000 - Japan Today


~The children waited on Grandma by themselves and played in the park by themselves twice a week presenting an opportunity for observation or contact.

~ Bank cards had been handled.

~ Is there something about the silhouette that isn’t right so no recognition? He looks tall and thin in the image, imo.

~ Argument heard in home: Perp comes to door is admitted some kind of argument takes place perp is ejected and runs behind the house to find access for revenge?

~Question: EAFB is on the western edge of the Mojave. Sand blows.

Could the sand have blown from EAFB into another area out of their bounds?

~ South Korean cleaning water?! Is it sold in Japan?

~This looks like Zelkova Trees in the picture of the skate park. Pictured next to 5
https://listverse.com/2018/08/04/10-gruesome-facts-of-the-setagaya-family-mystery/

Starling flocks, prolific poopers, roost in Zelkova. Evidence of perp spending time in the skate park?

~Ym’s Mother used intercom not phone to try to reach family



All imo

​

 

[FacelessPodcast]

These may be repeat postings but here are links with some information I found to be of interest:

Twice a week, Miyazawa had traveled for two hours by train and bus from her home in Saitama Prefecture to take care of the children while her son and daughter-in-law worked.

When she exited the bus at a stop nearest to the house, the two children who were waiting outside would run toward her, saying, “Grandma.”

She let the children play in a park before she prepared dinner. They always ate all the food she cooked. The grandchildren baked cakes for her for Christmas and her birthday.
​

‘Why can’t it be solved?’ Still no suspect in 2000 killing of family | The Asahi Shimbun: Breaking News, Japan News and Analysis

The MPD suspects the motive was money and goods because bank cards and other items were found spread out in the home.
>>>>
The perpetrator is believed to be a male around 170 centimeters tall​

Ex-detective in Setagaya family murders still supports mother | The Asahi Shimbun: Breaking News, Japan News and Analysis

around that same time, an eyewitnesses walking by the park that ran directly behind the Miyazawas’ house claimed to have heard the sounds of a family argument. The sounds, the eyewitness said, were coming from the Miyazawa house. Another eyewitness said that they saw some unidentified man run behind the Miyazawa house.[3]
>>>>>



Police found that the killer’s clothes had been purchased in Kanagawa Prefecture but had been washed in a manner that was not common in Japan. This latter fact led many to believe that the killer was a foreign national.
>>>>>


Prior to the murders, Mikio Miyazawa had engaged in several heated arguments with young skateboarders who frequented the skate park behind the family’s house. In particular, eyewitnesses said that Mikio often confronted the teenage skateboarders for making too much noise. One eyewitness also said that
that Mikio had done the same thing to members of a local motorcycle gang who were hanging out in the skate park.[7]
>>>>>


Also, forensic testing of the clothes left behind by the killer at the crime scene indicated that they had been washed with mineral-rich hard water, a type of cleaning water common in South Korea but uncommon in Japan.
​

10 Gruesome Facts Of The Setagaya Family Mystery - Listverse

On his clothes, there were traces of zelkova leaves and bird droppings. In his bum bag, there were sand grains from the Mojave desert, the other side of the planet.​

The real life story behind Blue Light Yokohama: Part 2

the mother of Yasuko Miyazawa, who lived next door, repeatedly buzzed her daughter on the intercom.
​

New book claims to shed light on Setagaya family murders in 2000 - Japan Today


~The children waited on Grandma by themselves and played in the park by themselves twice a week presenting an opportunity for observation or contact.

~ Bank cards had been handled.

~ Is there something about the silhouette that isn’t right so no recognition? He looks tall and thin in the image, imo.

~ Argument heard in home: Perp comes to door is admitted some kind of argument takes place perp is ejected and runs behind the house to find access for revenge?

~Question: EAFB is on the western edge of the Mojave. Sand blows.

Could the sand have blown from EAFB into another area out of their bounds?

~ South Korean cleaning water?! Is it sold in Japan?

~This looks like Zelkova Trees in the picture of the skate park. Pictured next to 5
https://listverse.com/2018/08/04/10-gruesome-facts-of-the-setagaya-family-mystery/

Starling flocks, prolific poopers, roost in Zelkova. Evidence of perp spending time in the skate park?

~Ym’s Mother used intercom not phone to try to reach family



All imo

​

Great post, Jade! Thank you

(I actually wrote one of those articles you link to a few years back). I've seen many of these before and I guess the questions I'm still left with going through them again:

*If the killer's motive is money and goods, why are the bank cards left in the house and simply spread about? We know he spread many different items about, why didn't he take the bank cards? And if his motive was money, why did he leave any behind in the house (particularly because I think there was some prominently displayed near the computer, I believe).

*If the clothes are washed in a manner that is not common in Japan then how much does this really tell them? If we know the clothes came from Japan but the water used to wash them was uncommon in Japan how can the conclusion be a foreigner? Obviously, I don't discount this at all. If I'm a betting man, I would say that the killer most likely has ties to other countries. But I'm curious as to why they think cleaning the clothes in a Korean way makes him Korean but buying clothes in Japan doesn't make him Japanese?

*The problem I've had with articles / videos (particularly in English) is that they blend in stories about eyewitnesses and heated arguments and the like into the known facts. Motorcycle gangs and heated arguments are just simply never substantiated anywhere else. That's not to say none of that happened or that the police didn't look into these elements. Just that I don't want to take Listverse or Unresolved Podcast at their word if none of the major Japanese newspapers have reported on it.

*The detail about the intercom is fantastic -- I don't know how I missed that. I had always wondered about that. If the grandmother couldn't get through on the phone, that would mean the killer HAD cut the phone line. But then if that was true, how did he go online at 1:18am? (Assuming their connection was dial-up and looking at a timeline of internet usage in Japan it seems like December 2000 was too early for broadband). If she never calls them on the phone and simply goes over to the house at 10:00am the next morning then that solves that problem. However, one caveat: if this article is based on that book it mentions, it's worth saying it's written by a guy who never uses his real name. And he claims, spectacularly, to have solved the case himself. So hopefully the detail about the intercom isn't coming from him but is coming from Japan Today.

*As for your final points, I think it's very probable the killer had observed the family / the children. A park would make a good spot to do this from as it's full of hiding places, a man wouldn't stand out in a park just walking around the way he might if it was a quiet residential back street.

*Agree that the silhouette / mannikin gives the impression of a tall or imposing man yet we know our killer was only 5 ft 6.

*I've never seen anything via the local press or TMPD that substantiated arguing, whether inside the home or outside with skateboarders / gang members.

*Until the TMPD comment on exactly where the sand was from, this point will remain unclear. But I DO know for a fact that sand can be identified by its geography pretty accurately these days.

*RE: the Korean cleaning water. They say it's uncommon. But I suppose that doesn't mean it's impossible for it to be local.

*I definitely agree that it's likely he watched them prior to the murders.

 

[evilwise]

I'm literally shaking my head at the suggestion that because the killer's clothes had been washed in hard water, he was probably Korean.

"Anybody who doesn't have a water softener is probably a damn Korean"

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I'm literally shaking my head at the suggestion that because the killer's clothes had been washed in hard water, he was probably Korean.

"Anybody who doesn't have a water softener is probably a damn Korean"

I'd actually never seen the thing about the hard water leading the TMPD to think he was Korean.

This article is the first time I've seen it. But they give no supporting links or sources, despite saying it's been 'fact-checked'. If it's never been in any of the credible newspapers, I would love to know how Listverse has fact-checked that.

In any case, a quick search shows that even within Japan there seems to be significant variety in water hardness. If there was uniform hardness throughout the country, that might be one vague detail we could accept as *maybe* pointing away from the country. But as it is...

(Side note: this graph seems to suggest Tokyo has the 13th highest water hardness in the country anyway??)

https://media.springernature.com/lw...bjects/41598_2021_92949_Fig3_HTML.png?as=webp

 

[Charlot123]

Police still hoping killer's DNA will break 20-year-old Setagaya multiple murder case - Japan Today

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Police still hoping killer's DNA will break 20-year-old Setagaya multiple murder case - Japan Today

Thank you, Charlot. Former Chief Tsuchida is a very honourable man who I have the deepest respect for. I'm sure you've seen in various other articles, he still stays close to the case and stays in touch with the relatives of the victims, hands out flyers near the local station, so on.

It's interesting to me, however, that it's a retired TMPD man who's talking about solving this case in that article.

 

[Cryptic]

In fact, the wealthiest Japanese girl I've ever known had a rich Korean/Indonesian father who very much wanted her to integrate into Japanese society

this crime probably did occur after winter exams (which can basically ruin a Japanese teen's whole life) does increase the likelihood to me that this was the son of a wealthy international who could have just immediately fled the country to wherever he had dual citizenship.

I really like this scenario.

The DNA results included possibilities for Korea, China, and Japan and Europe.

As you stated in your example of a wealthy Korean with ties to Indonesia, there are ethnic Chinese communities that have existed for centuries in Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia etc. Such a suspect could be of Chinese descent from one of these countries.

In addition.... Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia were British and Dutch colonial possessions with European presence. The European DNA was associated with the Adriatic and not UK or Netherlands.

But... it was fairly common for the French, British and Dutch to recruit people from poorer European countries to fill lower level colonial administrative / technical positions if there were not enough English etc. recruits.

A famous example is Mother Theresa. Ethnically Albanian (Adriatic), joins an Irish order of teaching nuns. British government is secular, but facilitates Irish nuns teaching in India as they conclude it serves their over all interests. Mother Theresa then winds up in India.

So.... replace Adriatic "teaching nun" with say, recruited Albanian or Croatian clerk at a Royal Navy supply depot (Europeans preferred for security reasons- but little UK interest in lower clerical positions overseas) 3-4 generations ago.

Adriatic clerk then marries a member of the local Chinese community. In 2000, perpetrator has residual European DNA- but little European features. In 2000, the perpetrator's family is also wealthy- does not need to be "jet set". Rather they see Japan as a source of education, advancement potential etc. and have enough money to fund "junior's" studies / residency there.

After a few years in Japan, Junior is fluent in Japanese, loves Japanese night clubs, sake, and mini skirted Japanese girls. But... Junior has little love for intensive studying and fears a "crash n' burn" on the all important winter examinations.

The shame and punishment for wasting opportunity and family money will not be pleasant. Junior then hires a cram teacher to salvage his situation. Junior then blames her when the crash 'n burn still occurs.

He then flees the country after the murders, informs his family that he failed the examinations and does not want to return to Japan- for any reason. His father accepts Junior's explanation at face value and lets "sleeping dogs lay".

 

[Jade]

All imo

The bank cards left about make no sense but I was so curious as to what papers the killer was digging through and handling.

Korean traditions in washing and ironing tie him [and Mama] more closely for identity?

Compared with 27 other countries, Japan exhibited soft water with low-mineral content.​

A survey of monitoring tap water hardness in Japan and its distribution patterns | Scientific Reports

Seoul tap water contains more than one hundred and thirty-three minerals in total, more than in any other city in the world. The ten most common minerals found in this municipal water are calcium, magnesium, manganese, sodium, potassium, calcium carbonate, iron, and sulfate.​

Is Seoul Tap Water Safe To Drink?


Evidence of hard water and an ironing block or stick using the traditional way to iron?

Dadeumi - Wikipedia
Korean ironing sticks, clubs, blocks, Japanese fulling mallets


Water from certain sources are very important to the Koreans:

>>>and a strong belief in the special medicinal effects of some CDWs >>>community drinking water (CDW) facilities, defined as naturally flowing water, springs, or developed wells for supplying drinking water to the public, called “Yaksu” in Korean (Lee, 2013), have been gaining popularity over the years. Many Koreans believe that Yaksu has medical value or mysterious effectiveness for healing certain diseases.​

http://www.kpubs.org/article/articleMain.kpubs?articleANo=JGSTB5_2013_v18n6_56


Water use traditions go back over 500 years:
A dragon’s tears bubbling out of the ground

There’s folklore attached to the waters:
Sacred Waters


If because of the hard water mineral deposits remained in the clothing that, I presume, with examination revealed amounts not seen in local water supplies.

Thus perp would be presumably clothed with dingy, stiff, faded clothing having been washed in specially hard water and beaten with a Zelkova [!] stick or smoothed flat with a block while being cloaked in medicinal properties and blessings petitioned from a deity for what I am sure are mental problems of some sort.

Coupled with the Zelkova leaf bits and bird droppings on his jacket he probably cut a less interesting figure than depicted.

Imo

 

[evilwise]

All imo

The bank cards left about make no sense but I was so curious as to what papers the killer was digging through and handling.

Korean traditions in washing and ironing tie him [and Mama] more closely for identity?

Compared with 27 other countries, Japan exhibited soft water with low-mineral content.​

A survey of monitoring tap water hardness in Japan and its distribution patterns | Scientific Reports

Seoul tap water contains more than one hundred and thirty-three minerals in total, more than in any other city in the world. The ten most common minerals found in this municipal water are calcium, magnesium, manganese, sodium, potassium, calcium carbonate, iron, and sulfate.​

Is Seoul Tap Water Safe To Drink?


Evidence of hard water and an ironing block or stick using the traditional way to iron?

Dadeumi - Wikipedia
Korean ironing sticks, clubs, blocks, Japanese fulling mallets


Water from certain sources are very important to the Koreans:

>>>and a strong belief in the special medicinal effects of some CDWs >>>community drinking water (CDW) facilities, defined as naturally flowing water, springs, or developed wells for supplying drinking water to the public, called “Yaksu” in Korean (Lee, 2013), have been gaining popularity over the years. Many Koreans believe that Yaksu has medical value or mysterious effectiveness for healing certain diseases.​

http://www.kpubs.org/article/articleMain.kpubs?articleANo=JGSTB5_2013_v18n6_56


Water use traditions go back over 500 years:
A dragon’s tears bubbling out of the ground

There’s folklore attached to the waters:
Sacred Waters


If because of the hard water mineral deposits remained in the clothing that, I presume, with examination revealed amounts not seen in local water supplies.

Thus perp would be presumably clothed with dingy, stiff, faded clothing having been washed in specially hard water and beaten with a Zelkova [!] stick or smoothed flat with a block while being cloaked in medicinal properties and blessings petitioned from a deity for what I am sure are mental problems of some sort.

Coupled with the Zelkova leaf bits and bird droppings on his jacket he probably cut a less interesting figure than depicted.

Imo

I feel like we've seen the actual clothing and it wasn't faded. Perhaps it doesn't get washed that often like only when he travels back home toting all his dirty laundry from the previous semester that his mom lovingly washes, irons and packs back up, enough to last for three months - so much that it seems disposable to him and he doesn't really think twice about leaving it somewhere if it becomes hopelessly stained or cut.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Flipping the TMPD website to English, I've noticed something potentially interesting. Under crimes where the suspect has fled abroad, the Miyazawa case is not listed. They're filed, instead, under murders.

公開捜査一覧(事件・罪種別)　警視庁

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I really like this scenario.

The DNA results included possibilities for Korea, China, and Japan and Europe.

As you stated in your example of a wealthy Korean with ties to Indonesia, there are ethnic Chinese communities that have existed for centuries in Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia etc. Such a suspect could be of Chinese descent from one of these countries.

In addition.... Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia were British and Dutch colonial possessions with European presence. The European DNA was associated with the Adriatic and not UK or Netherlands.

But... it was fairly common for the French, British and Dutch to recruit people from poorer European countries to fill lower level colonial administrative / technical positions if there were not enough English etc. recruits.

A famous example is Mother Theresa. Ethnically Albanian (Adriatic), joins an Irish order of teaching nuns. British government is secular, but facilitates Irish nuns teaching in India as they conclude it serves their over all interests. Mother Theresa then winds up in India.

So.... replace Adriatic "teaching nun" with say, recruited Albanian or Croatian clerk at a Royal Navy supply depot (Europeans preferred for security reasons- but little UK interest in lower clerical positions overseas) 3-4 generations ago.

Adriatic clerk then marries a member of the local Chinese community. In 2000, perpetrator has residual European DNA- but little European features. In 2000, the perpetrator's family is also wealthy- does not need to be "jet set". Rather they see Japan as a source of education, advancement potential etc. and have enough money to fund "junior's" studies / residency there.

After a few years in Japan, Junior is fluent in Japanese, loves Japanese night clubs, sake, and mini skirted Japanese girls. But... Junior has little love for intensive studying and fears a "crash n' burn" on the all important winter examinations.

The shame and punishment for wasting opportunity and family money will not be pleasant. Junior then hires a cram teacher to salvage his situation. Junior then blames her when the crash 'n burn still occurs.

He then flees the country after the murders, informs his family that he failed the examinations and does not want to return to Japan- for any reason. His father accepts Junior's explanation at face value and lets "sleeping dogs lay".

Thanks for your thoughts as ever, Cryptic. I enjoyed reading!

Having spoken with DNA experts (and I've said before, science is NOT in my wheel house), one of the problems with the mother's DNA is that we don't know how far back it goes to Europe. Is it her direct parent or is it her grandparent, or is it Marco Polo?

Now I'm assuming with 2022 technology, we could probably take what was in the killer's diet, traces from his hair, his blood - mix it all together today, and come up with a more refined origin than simply 'he's from somewhere around the Adriatic on his mother's side, and East Asian on the father's side -- probably Korean, Chinese, or Japanese'.

And even then, let's say it turned out that his grandparents were from Albania on his mother's side, and his father was full Korean genetically -- there's still nothing to say that he couldn't be a born and bred Angeleno, or from San Diego. Not to say it wouldn't be highly valuable of course!

 

[FacelessPodcast]

All imo

The bank cards left about make no sense but I was so curious as to what papers the killer was digging through and handling.

Korean traditions in washing and ironing tie him [and Mama] more closely for identity?

Compared with 27 other countries, Japan exhibited soft water with low-mineral content.​

A survey of monitoring tap water hardness in Japan and its distribution patterns | Scientific Reports

Seoul tap water contains more than one hundred and thirty-three minerals in total, more than in any other city in the world. The ten most common minerals found in this municipal water are calcium, magnesium, manganese, sodium, potassium, calcium carbonate, iron, and sulfate.​

Is Seoul Tap Water Safe To Drink?


Evidence of hard water and an ironing block or stick using the traditional way to iron?

Dadeumi - Wikipedia
Korean ironing sticks, clubs, blocks, Japanese fulling mallets


Water from certain sources are very important to the Koreans:

>>>and a strong belief in the special medicinal effects of some CDWs >>>community drinking water (CDW) facilities, defined as naturally flowing water, springs, or developed wells for supplying drinking water to the public, called “Yaksu” in Korean (Lee, 2013), have been gaining popularity over the years. Many Koreans believe that Yaksu has medical value or mysterious effectiveness for healing certain diseases.​

http://www.kpubs.org/article/articleMain.kpubs?articleANo=JGSTB5_2013_v18n6_56


Water use traditions go back over 500 years:
A dragon’s tears bubbling out of the ground

There’s folklore attached to the waters:
Sacred Waters


If because of the hard water mineral deposits remained in the clothing that, I presume, with examination revealed amounts not seen in local water supplies.

Thus perp would be presumably clothed with dingy, stiff, faded clothing having been washed in specially hard water and beaten with a Zelkova [!] stick or smoothed flat with a block while being cloaked in medicinal properties and blessings petitioned from a deity for what I am sure are mental problems of some sort.

Coupled with the Zelkova leaf bits and bird droppings on his jacket he probably cut a less interesting figure than depicted.

Imo

Thanks again for your post, Jade. Always a great read

It would be good to know what actual condition the clothes were in when the killer left them. The TMPD gave us replica shirt, gloves etc. Do we know for sure that clothes were stiff and faded? (I know the bag has been described as worn before -- though it can't have been any older than 1995 if I recall correctly).

I'm wondering now if perhaps there's a Korean laundry place he / his mother goes to? Shin-Okubo is one such Korean neighbourhood in Tokyo off the top of my head.

And yes, I've always wondered about the bird droppings and the Zelkova leaves. Is he handling these things closely? Is he sleeping rough? Spending a lot of time in the bushes? None of that really tallies with a guy wearing nice aftershave, buying a brand new jacket from Uniqlo for like 50 bucks, buying a brand new knife for 30, and so on.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I feel like we've seen the actual clothing and it wasn't faded. Perhaps it doesn't get washed that often like only when he travels back home toting all his dirty laundry from the previous semester that his mom lovingly washes, irons and packs back up, enough to last for three months - so much that it seems disposable to him and he doesn't really think twice about leaving it somewhere if it becomes hopelessly stained or cut.

That's an interesting thought, evilwise.

Are the actual clothes modelled by the TMPD on the mannikin in their press releases? I'm assuming that was replica stuff from the same manufacturers and so on. Like I said to Jade just now, I would love to know what *actual* condition the clothes were in that the killer left them in (beyond covered in blood, of course).

 

[Charlot123]

Thanks for your thoughts as ever, Cryptic. I enjoyed reading!

Having spoken with DNA experts (and I've said before, science is NOT in my wheel house), one of the problems with the mother's DNA is that we don't know how far back it goes to Europe. Is it her direct parent or is it her grandparent, or is it Marco Polo?

Now I'm assuming with 2022 technology, we could probably take what was in the killer's diet, traces from his hair, his blood - mix it all together today, and come up with a more refined origin than simply 'he's from somewhere around the Adriatic on his mother's side, and East Asian on the father's side -- probably Korean, Chinese, or Japanese'.

And even then, let's say it turned out that his grandparents were from Albania on his mother's side, and his father was full Korean genetically -- there's still nothing to say that he couldn't be a born and bred Angeleno, or from San Diego. Not to say it wouldn't be highly valuable of course!

So from your post, I understand that they assume “Adriatic” basing on mitochondrial DNA, right? (If they used autosomal DNA, they’d know how many generations ago the killer had a European ancestor).

However, mitochondrial DNA says nothing about the ancestry of the person’s mother. My relative has a very rare mitogroup originating from Persia. (No connection with that country whatsoever).