Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000

[kittythehare]

Found this on YouTube. It doesn't have any information that would be new to anyone familiar with the case, but I did find the CGI walkthrough in the first part of the video very interesting. Gives you a good idea of what the inside of the house was like.

That was very good, thanks.

 

[Charlot123]

Many thanks for your post, TokyoSleuth! And very kind of you to say about the podcast, so glad you enjoyed it. Apologies for the delayed response, I've been in South America. Anyhow, taking your points in turn:

*Filling the bath tub 1: I think what's weird about this is filling it with items belonging to the family. Papers, ID cards, so on. I can only assume he wanted a place to sort through it and toss what did interest him. But then that suggests he's LOOKING FOR something. And if so, that hints at a motive potentially. And if after 22 years and thousands upon thousands of TMPD man hours they haven't shared that theory, then I'm doubtful... (It's possible they don't want to. But at this stage, frankly, that would be ridiculous).

*The outfit worn by the killer: I don't find it unusual, either. Whether the year 2000 or even today. What is interesting is 1) where he bought certain things from, such as his top from M/X. E.G., despite its rarity, the police could only ever track down one or two owners. And 2) the fact that he left most of it there. It makes total sense if it's covered in blood. But on the other hand, in the dark of night, he could've just made a cursory attempt to clean that off his dark jacket, zip it up, and hurry away. He chooses not to do that, steals a sweater belonging to Mikio, and leaves his stuff there. That tells me either he didn't GAF about the cops tracing his items or he had no choice because his clothes were beyond salvage. Alternatively, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, he's not in his right mind. Maybe a combination.

*The airman theory: I've seen the TMPD / local media blame crime on foreigners many times. But they actually didn't do that here. At least not the TMPD. If you look at their page on this crime on the TMPD website, nowhere does it mention anything about this. They actually didn't WANT Wikipedia to mention the potential DNA 'link' to a Korean (it really isn't, as covered several times throughout this thread) precisely because the science was junk. A chance of 1 in 4 Korean, 1 in 10 Chinese, and 1 in 13 Japanese -- this simply isn't evidence. There's a chance my Aunt Hilda could've been my Uncle Harry etc. The reason why the USAF theory (or son of USAF member most likely) could be credible is that there is sand from a part of the Californian desert where there is very little else beyond the USAF base. And it just seems to be a coincidence that thousands upon thousands of miles away, there is another USAF base relatively close to the crime scene. If you delete USAF, there isn't a solid explanation for it. That's not a smoking gun, as I've said many times, but it's also unexplained by the TMPD. Post-podcast, our sand specialist confirmed that there is no way the TMPD could confuse sand from Japan (such as from Miura) with sand near Edwards AB.

RE: your distances, I'm a bit confused because my maps are telling me different? From Yokota AB West Entrace to Fussa Station is like 1km (maybe 10 mins walking?) and then it's a little over an hour on public transport to Soshigaya Park. I've done that route myself and can vouch. Also, from Fussa to Ogikubo (the area I believe most likely for a first contact point between the killer in the airman theory and the Miyazawas) it's under an hour. According to the family, the Miyazawas did their shopping there and it's also the location of M/X and various other stores selling items of clothing the killer left behind. So again, another coincidence. Zama is another option, of course, one we didn't look at for time reasons in the podcast. But google is telling me it's 1 hour 20 mins from Zama to Soshigaya Park via buses and trains.

Also, re: the folding of clothes, where did you read the killer did that? I don't think that's ever been confirmed, only ever rumoured. In any case, the Chief rejected the idea and simply said his clothes were 'left' behind. The wrapping of the knife was something that the police looked at being 'Chinese' or 'Filipino', so again, I don't think that's exactly concrete (not there is anything concrete in this case except for his DNA). And as for barley tea, I have one British parent and one Spanish and I always drink it whenever I'm in Japan. So sure, it could well point to a Japanese person. But it also could well not.

The Californian Sand: Simply put, the TMPD refuse to tell us where this clue came from but also refuse to discount it. The Chief was VERY vague about it to me when he was vague about almost nothing else and very forthcoming. He made it clear he suspects the killer was Japanese until there is something more against the idea. Which is totally fair and logical. But then we are talking about a 'teenaged' killer who somehow transported a Japanese bag to the middle of nowhere in the Mojave Desert, picked up some sand, then brought it back to suburban Tokyo... by mistake? It's possible he stole the bag as I've said many times. But some of his clothes are brand new (and not cheap) so he would have to have stolen a bag (without it being reported) from someone who had been to Edwards or to the nearby desert. It's possible, of course. But like many have said, it feels a lot more likely it simply belonged to him and he left it behind like everything else. So, in short, I think the sand thing was leaked in the same way the 'mixed' DNA thing was leaked. The TMPD mention neither on their website. I have no idea why, at this point. Nor do I understand why they don't do further testing on the DNA, but that's a whole other can of worms... But in short, until proved otherwise, I do believe this is concrete evidence. FAR more concrete than BS footprint in blood evidence that the TMPD used to go to Korea with. Despite the shoes also being available in various other countries...

*Bath 2: I agree with you, the window would have been very difficult to enter the house from and the TMPD said themselves there were no fibres in the frame. Then again, they can't prove he came through the front door. That leaves the balcony which they have never mentioned. The front door for exit would've meant blood though and there was none at the door. So either he found some way of cleaning his tracks from Mikio's body to exiting the house or he left some other way. Possibly the balcony. It's maddening that 22 years after the case, the investigators can still be so unsure about something so basic.

*Timeline: We simply don't know the timeline for sure other than the TMPD say Rei was first based on him having no blood on his body (though there was a lot of blood in his room on the floor, presumably from the killer pacing around afterwards). It seems impossible the killer could've gone up the ladder to the attic to attack mother and daughter with Mikio still downstairs on the computer and him not hearing. Those wooden pull-down ladders are noisy, as well as the house in general. I think Mikio would've even heard the killer's footfalls leaving the room. I think in the darkened panic, Niina and Yasuko, who were likely asleep, simply didn't know what to do. They were both stabbed and in their shock, probably assumed that the killer leaving was because he was leaving. Not going to look for another knife. I'm not sure that speculating what makes sense while bleeding and terrified after being attacked in your own home is something that is particularly fruitful. Maybe their actions are confusing because they were confused?

Cat killings: I don't have a link to the 2chan post but I'm fairly certain it's been posted in the thread previously. It's somewhere in my research files but I don't have them to hand. The Chief seemed convinced the ones occurring at the time of the murders were NOT linked to the murders though and I'm fairly sure the guy was caught. (Given Japan's conviction rate, though, there's no certainty it was the actual culprit). But for sure, the killer would almost certainly have acted out violently in some form or another. This was part of what first made me think of a USAF airman's son -- the TMPD wouldn't have access to disciplinary files in the high school on-base etc. It's quite possible the killer did act out at school but they just simply didn't know about it. Alternatively, this simply happened in another country and it never was connected by the TMPD (or the killer simply got away that past behaviour as well as these murders). And I also agree, it's more likely the killer had some knowledge of the area. To carry out such violence in an unfamiliar area feels like a much bigger risk than doing it somewhere he knows. Then again, he took some wild risks so who knows.

Also, going back to the 2Chan post. It's worth seeking out because, although the Chief discounted it as BS basically, the poster does make an uncanny prediction. If nothing else, it's a chilling guess...

*RE: the family hiding their son's actions, hard agree. Especially if you thought he could be facing the death penalty and, as I understand it, 4 murders of this nature is the noose almost guaranteed. Of course, sometimes, people simply don't want to see the obvious. So he could've said he was attacked and picked up a sweater from the trash, who knows...

Thanks again for your great post, TS. Let me know if you have any other thoughts!

I have a question about Californian sand. I am not sure there is a database of the composition of all desert sands in the world. They probably thought Mojave because it is large and touristy, but there are many places on earth with landlocked red dunes, which are less known. I simply doubt that the Tokyo police checked all sands from such deserts. If the sand is not from Mojave desert, then all connection to airbase theory falls apart, unless there is something else.

 

[kittythehare]

I'm wondering whether it was a gang initiation?
What known gangs were active in japan at that time?

The other thing that crossed my mind while watching the vid above is whether he was a visitor and whether similar crimes occurred in other countries where he or a fellow gang member had allegedly travelled?

I'm completely bamboozled on this so reaching..

No apparent motive or they would have found him.
A kill for the sake of a kill?

A copycat kill?
Was he a fan of a serial killer by any chance?

He slept on their couch.
No rush.
How weird?
Or entitled he felt?

 

[Charlot123]

@FacelessPodcast

I listened to two of your podcasts. Plan to listen to more. Amazingly done, and thank you very much! I am poscast-challenged, as I read fast and rely on it, but your wonderful British accent surely made a difference. In general, what a beautiful touch, to interview the old lady Haruko, who has been waiting for 22 years to ask, why? Breaks my heart.

I have a couple of questions. From what I understand, you are inclined to think that the perpetrator might be living in the US. And also, according to Japanese laws, your DNA is your privacy. From these two facts, one question emerges:

- if the perpetrator is a US citizen, would the Japanese privacy laws include his DNA? Simply put, if he is living in Japan, that might somehow precludes extensive investigation/comparison of his DNA, but if Japanese police has valid reasons to believe/assume that he is out of the country, what could prevent that country from in-depth work with his DNA only?

(Hopefully it is kept, or can be lifted from some objects found on the CS).

Two thoughts: FTDNA's big Y-700.

DNA Testing for Ancestry & Genealogy | FamilyTreeDNA

Discover your DNA story and unlock the secrets of your ancestry and genealogy with our Autosomal DNA, YDNA and mtDNA tests!

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This is an in-depth evaluation of paternal Y. Often such level might show the matches having the same last name. Not always, because different countries started using surnames at different times, plus, two related Asian-Americans might have different last names because the same name was translated differently. Yet, it might be a good approach if Japanese laws prevent comparison of the perp's DNA even with US open-source databases. In other words, if you can not run someone's DNA for matches, you could hopefully work solely with perp's DNA, but in-depth.

Same about maternal DNA. The same company, FTDNA, does FMS (full mitochondrial sequence). This narrows the comparison group. In my family, some people have the commonest mitoDNA, but FTDNA revealed a private mutation that makes this mitochondrial subgroup extremely rare, for example.

The only thing, they usually work with collected saliva, but the company is more science-based than most commercial DNA companies. And, today science has learned to isolate autosomal and mitochondria DNA from rootless hair.

These are the first considerations. Please disregard my earlier post about Mojave, I probably don't know the same details that you do.

I think the situation might be regarded from a different angle. If the person is indeed living here, the goal is not only to provide the victim's mother with the answer, although we owe her. The goal is to protect other people living here from the perp's activity. There is a high chance he might have committed similar crimes here.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

There was such a large pool of men who voluntarily submitted their DNA sample, could the Japanese police use genetic genealogy on those samples? I understand the privacy rights in Japan are more conservative than in North America, but these men may consent to have their samples used that way.

As I understand it, it's not even about consent. It's just that legally the TMPD are constrained to ONLY using DNA in the traditional way -- they match the DNA found at the crime scene to the database. If it pops with an existing offender on the database, great, they've got their man. If not, that's as far as DNA goes. So, essentially, it means the killer would have to be arrested for something *else* in order for a DNA sample to be taken. Or, of course, his fingerprints are taken. Either through law enforcement or when entering a Japanese airport from abroad.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I have a question about Californian sand. I am not sure there is a database of the composition of all desert sands in the world. They probably thought Mojave because it is large and touristy, but there are many places on earth with landlocked red dunes, which are less known. I simply doubt that the Tokyo police checked all sands from such deserts. If the sand is not from Mojave desert, then all connection to airbase theory falls apart, unless there is something else.

Hi Charlot, this is covered later on in my podcast, we speak to the world's foremost expert in this field. But she told me privately that, basically, it is not possible for the Tokyo MPD to confuse sand from the Miura Peninsula in Japan with sand from the Mojave Desert -- even if there are similarities. We took various sand samples in the area surrounding Edwards AFB, only a few miles apart, and she told me they were all completely distinct with their own characteristics. So no real chance of confusing Mojave sand with Miura sand.

Now, all that said, this is covering the *possibility* of sand analysis. If the TMPD wanted to, they could identify its origin. (They may well have already done this, I don't know). But from my many interviews with the ex-police chief running the Miyazawa homicide case, it was one of the few topics he was cagey about. He would not confirm:

1) where the sand came from
2) where the idea of it being from California came from
3) whether or not the TMPD had done analysis on the sand

He also generally voiced skepticism about the sand in the killer's hip bag being from America. But he could not say why. Lorna, the expert, did tell me that there is an extensive catalogue of American sands with a lot of research done on them. This would have been freely available to the TMPD for comparison. But maybe this is assuming an openness to collaboration that was not (and is not) perhaps there on the part of the TMPD.

You are right, though. If the sand in the killer's hip bag was not from the Mojave then the connection to Edwards AFB falls apart. Although there is coincidentally another US airbase not all that far from the Miyazawa's home. If you time it right, you can make the journey in under 1 hour on public transport. I also believe the river that runs past the house actually winds its way up to the airbase so in theory bicycle is another option. All conjecture on my part.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I'm wondering whether it was a gang initiation?
What known gangs were active in japan at that time?

The other thing that crossed my mind while watching the vid above is whether he was a visitor and whether similar crimes occurred in other countries where he or a fellow gang member had allegedly travelled?

I'm completely bamboozled on this so reaching..

No apparent motive or they would have found him.
A kill for the sake of a kill?

A copycat kill?
Was he a fan of a serial killer by any chance?

He slept on their couch.
No rush.
How weird?
Or entitled he felt?

A gang initiation is possible. At this point, very little can be discounted. From what I know of organised crime in Japan, I think slaughtering an entire innocent family that have nothing to do with the underworld seems unlikely, though. Unless it's a more disorganised, informal gang -- Bōsōzoku or some such. But even then, murdering two adults and two children and then hanging out all night to eat ice cream and browse the family computer -- that's a hell of an initiation. And surely, if this were not a one-off, there'd be other murdered families.

There are of course various other family murders across the world but I've never seen anything with the elements on display here. And the seeming lack of motive is the crown on this crap heap.

As for his resting there or apparent comfort in the home, this has been mentioned throughout the thread. It's quite possible he was beyond caring. BUT then he also displays self-preservation various times throughout the night. He patches himself up with first aid, he has never handed himself in etc. So, it's also quite possible that his injuries sapped his energy or even affected his decision-making. The police confirmed he lost a significant amount of blood, after all. Or he simply assumed the nearby houses were empty (they were not). Alternatively, he knew if could hold his nerve and stay there, maybe he had a getaway of some kind and had nowhere else to stay in the meantime. Perhaps he figured better to hide in the house rather than risk being spotted late at night in suburbia with a bad injury? At any rate, the fact that the Miyazawa's relatives were right next door at the time of the murders has raised questions that have never been answered.

1. How does Ann Irie's son hear a 'banging noise' (later shown to be the fold-down ladder from the attic being put back up). But then none of Ann Irie's family hear a single scream or struggle. My own sound guys confirmed how thin the walls were, how evident the noises travelling between the walls would be.
2. As you say, if the killer was stupid enough to somehow miss the family right next door --especially when it seems he was watching beforehand-- then it raises the possibility he knew they were there but did it anyway. That is a can of worms.

So, with no hard or fast facts on either point, I'll defer to your word -- WEIRD

 

[FacelessPodcast]

@FacelessPodcast

- if the perpetrator is a US citizen, would the Japanese privacy laws include his DNA? Simply put, if he is living in Japan, that might somehow precludes extensive investigation/comparison of his DNA, but if Japanese police has valid reasons to believe/assume that he is out of the country, what could prevent that country from in-depth work with his DNA only?

You're very kind, Charlot! I'm so pleased you're enjoying it, I hope you like the rest of the episodes.

To answer your question: yes, I think there is a possibility the killer is in the US, or at least outside of Japan. My other thought is that he's simply dead. This almost seems more likely to me seeing as there seem to be no other similar crimes throughout the world. (Though the experts I spoke to told me that it is actually possible for killers to commit this kind of crime and simply never re-offend, so that can't be discounted). Then again, if the TMPD is correct on the killer's age range, it's possible he's still in his late 30s -- so if he's dead, it won't be due to old age. In any case, I find the idea of him blending in amongst the Japanese people, like some kind of Jason Bourne-figure, hard to believe. Though it is possible, of course.

As for the legal side of TMPD barriers to using his DNA. I actually think it's that:

1) there IS no legal framework for *investigating* the DNA in Japan. It simply hasn't been put together yet.
2) as people as very protective of their privacy and crime rates are so low, there isn't a big public push to remedy this situation and bring Japan in-line with countries like the US/EU in this area.
3) Whereas historically Japan had quite a positive outlook / favourability rating of its own police, this is changing in recent years due to various scandals. So now, the TMPD saying 'we actually need to be able to rifle through public DNA databases' or some such would be met with more vocal resistance than in the past.

So, all that to say, I think if the killer were arrested right now abroad, let's say in the Californian desert, the TMPD would be looking at his fingerprints first and foremost. I'm not a lawyer, much less in Japan -- but I suppose if they still building their criminal case against the killer based around DNA when their DNA laws are 1:1, this could present problems. Essentially, they would just arrest him and use his sample to link him to the scene. But it's chicken and egg because for that to happen, they would need to arrest him. And for THAT to happen, they would need to find him. Which brings us back to DNA. Which they are limited in...

 

[Charlot123]

You're very kind, Charlot! I'm so pleased you're enjoying it, I hope you like the rest of the episodes.

To answer your question: yes, I think there is a possibility the killer is in the US, or at least outside of Japan. My other thought is that he's simply dead. This almost seems more likely to me seeing as there seem to be no other similar crimes throughout the world. (Though the experts I spoke to told me that it is actually possible for killers to commit this kind of crime and simply never re-offend, so that can't be discounted). Then again, if the TMPD is correct on the killer's age range, it's possible he's still in his late 30s -- so if he's dead, it won't be due to old age. In any case, I find the idea of him blending in amongst the Japanese people, like some kind of Jason Bourne-figure, hard to believe. Though it is possible, of course.

As for the legal side of TMPD barriers to using his DNA. I actually think it's that:

1) there IS no legal framework for *investigating* the DNA in Japan. It simply hasn't been put together yet.
2) as people as very protective of their privacy and crime rates are so low, there isn't a big public push to remedy this situation and bring Japan in-line with countries like the US/EU in this area.
3) Whereas historically Japan had quite a positive outlook / favourability rating of its own police, this is changing in recent years due to various scandals. So now, the TMPD saying 'we actually need to be able to rifle through public DNA databases' or some such would be met with more vocal resistance than in the past.

So, all that to say, I think if the killer were arrested right now abroad, let's say in the Californian desert, the TMPD would be looking at his fingerprints first and foremost. I'm not a lawyer, much less in Japan -- but I suppose if they still building their criminal case against the killer based around DNA when their DNA laws are 1:1, this could present problems. Essentially, they would just arrest him and use his sample to link him to the scene. But it's chicken and egg because for that to happen, they would need to arrest him. And for THAT to happen, they would need to find him. Which brings us back to DNA. Which they are limited in...

I was thinking about him being dead. It is not unlikely. However, it doesn’t mean that people of Japan should not get their answers. Of course, family shame is viewed differently. I am thinking that the victim’s family needs closure, and i would never blame the relatives, not even remotely. So I hope that like any country, Japan is changing, and the young generation is more open to the world.

Perhaps we shall never fully understand, why, but will at least know, who.

About the sand. I googled Mojave desert. Landlocked red dunes. Then I looked up “landlocked deserts with dunes and red sand”, and the list was so huge. Starting with India. In short, we simply don’t know where he travelled, or who could have given him the sand.

Perhaps there is some other connection with the base that Tokyo police doesn’t want to reveal. It might be true. It might also be the reflection of the wish to “make the perpetrator not Japanese”, for the same reason, shame. The same way they assume he might be Korean because his Y is more common in Korea.

BTW, this Y. An in-depth Y can possibly tell "Korean vs Japanese ancestor", although not where recent relatives might be living. (I know, the laws. Sad).

Lastly - there may be no question of extradition even if he is found because the person has probably some crime history here, or is mentally ill. Simply - the relatives need closure.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Hi WS,

Apologies for radio silence. Would appreciate your advice tonight as something has come up. Maybe nothing but also potentially quite exciting.

Following my podcast, a listener reached out. Someone involved in the legal system in Asia. We've spoken for a little while now and he's given me a name. Now, this person is of course innocent of any crimes until proved otherwise. And to say up front there is no evidence of any wrongdoing at all on his part. But after 22 years of zero clear leads, I'm willing to speculate and bark up the wrong trees. I also don't want to break any house rules so I'm not giving out names or making any kind of unfounded accusations here. I just want your opinions.

Hi all,

Question on my previous post / the possible person of interest. What would be the best place to look into an individual living on (or with big links to) the State of Texas? I no longer live in the US (and without agreeing a season 2 of the Miyazawa mystery podcast, can't lean on Universal/USG resources).

To be clear, I have nothing solid on which to base a suspicion regarding this person -- only several interesting coincidences. I've reached out to former classmates and teachers but so far had little back. Really, I'd just like to ascertain:

1) is there any kind of history of criminality?
2) has this individual ever returned to Japan after the dates of the murders?
3) have they ever had any links to Edwards AFB / the Mojave region?

Advice welcome!

 

[Cryptic]

1) is there any kind of history of criminality?
2) has this individual ever returned to Japan after the dates of the murders?
3) have they ever had any links to Edwards AFB / the Mojave region?

In regards to possibility one

- Arrest / Court records are public in the US. Several data search companies have automated access to these records. Searching them very likely involves paying a fee or 'subscribing'. But... common names will probably bring in results from all over.

 

[Tricia]

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[ninja1988]

Hi all,

Question on my previous post / the possible person of interest. What would be the best place to look into an individual living on (or with big links to) the State of Texas? I no longer live in the US (and without agreeing a season 2 of the Miyazawa mystery podcast, can't lean on Universal/USG resources).

To be clear, I have nothing solid on which to base a suspicion regarding this person -- only several interesting coincidences. I've reached out to former classmates and teachers but so far had little back. Really, I'd just like to ascertain:

1) is there any kind of history of criminality?
2) has this individual ever returned to Japan after the dates of the murders?
3) have they ever had any links to Edwards AFB / the Mojave region?

Advice welcome!

That is exciting if you have a person of interest in mind. You can look up the individuals name in the Texas inmate search. If he has committed a crime in Texas he will likely be in there system. Most states have an inmate search option available to the public. If this Person of Interest has lived in any other states you can search there too. Also if you pay a small fee you could do a national background check on this person to see if they were ever arrested. It would be worth it if the inmate search does not pan out.

If he has a social media presence you could dig through his history and see what he has posted or if he mentions his travels.

Please keep us updated, it is great to hear some good news on the case.

 

[MiniMoo]

I remember this story - this murder case, but didn't realise it still hadn't been solved.

Quite disheartening to learn and rather saddening.

What use to puzzle me, as I lived in Japan from mid-2000 for about 10 years, was how shocking some of the crimes were when it came to violence including what happened to this family.

I actually saw some of these stories on the tv news (translated for me) and sometimes in the Japan Times (newspaper). Also, two Criminal Lawyers filled me in on a few past stories as well.

Back then, from memory the victims names would be released most of the time, but never the perpetrator - if they had one.

The violence involved in some, if not most of these murders or out of the blue incidents, was extreme to the max!

I cannot believe that close to 250,000 policemen/investigators/detectives have worked on this particular case for over two decades with subtantial evidence at their hands yet have come up with next to zero.

Justice is long overdue!

Just a few thoughts:

Someone knocking or ringing a doorbell at 10:30pm in an area that is quite secluded seems rather odd unless that person is expected, of course. But that would be highly unusual. I also remember it not being so common for anyone to frequent others homes socially as well when I lived in Tokyo and that was normal.

I saw a movie (Japan) recently based on a true story that highlighted this exact point where these four boys in choir had known each other for about 2-3 years yet knew nothing about each other - 2017. They practised their instruments together, but never socialised. They knew each other's names and one knew roughly where one of the others lived and that one liked food, but that was all.

And if we look at the inside of the Miyazawa family home it wasn't t exactly designed really to entertain anyone.

My point is I don't feel the perpetrator walked through the front door that easily especially at a late time like 10:30pm and not in such an isolated location.

The second floor window is questionable as well as it should have had DNA or fragments of fibres whether on the wall, the box or the window frame.

Screaming:

Is there a possibility that Mikio, Yasuko and Niina had their throats xxxxx as to why no one heard any yelling or screaming with it being a poorly sound proofed environment?

That could explain why not much was heard.

Only it doesn't explain why Yasuko was quiet if there were indeed two attacks on her and Niina.

If in a stabbing frenzy, however, both could have been silenced easily within a matter of seconds and especially as he didn't succeed the first time.

Photos of the crime scene and the autopsies should be sent to the FBI (criminal profilers/forensics) as am sure they would be able to work out exactly what went down that night.

Back to reading more on it and catching up...

Keep up the good work!.

 

[MiniMoo]

I remember this story - this murder case, but didn't realise it still hadn't been solved.

Quite disheartening to learn and rather saddening.

What use to puzzle me, as I lived in Japan from mid-2000 for about 10 years, was how shocking some of the crimes were when it came to violence including what happened to this family.

I actually saw some of these stories on the tv news (translated for me) and sometimes in the Japan Times (newspaper). Also, two Criminal Lawyers filled me in on a few past stories as well.

Back then, from memory the victims names would be released most of the time, but never the perpetrator - if they had one. It did depend though.

The violence involved in some, if not most of these murders or out of the blue incidents, was extreme to the max!

I cannot believe that close to 250,000 policemen/investigators/detectives have worked on this particular case for over two decades with substantial evidence at their hands yet have come up with next to zero.

Justice is long overdue!

Just a few thoughts:

Someone knocking or ringing a doorbell at 10:30pm in an area that is quite secluded seems rather odd unless that person is expected, of course. But that would be highly unusual. I also remember it not being so common for anyone to frequent others homes socially as well when I lived in Tokyo and that was normal.

I saw a movie (Japan) recently based on a true story that highlighted this exact point where these four boys in choir had known each other for about 2-3 years yet knew nothing about each other - 2017. They practised their instruments together, but never socialised. They knew each other's names and one knew roughly where one of the others lived and that one liked food, but that was all.

And if we look at the inside of the Miyazawa family home it wasn't t exactly designed really to entertain anyone.

My point is I don't feel the perpetrator walked through the front door that easily especially at a late time like 10:30pm and not in such an isolated location.

The second floor window is questionable as well as it should have had DNA or fragments of fibres whether on the wall, the box or the window frame.

Screaming:

Is there a possibility that Mikio, Yasuko and Niina had their throats xxxxx as to why no one heard any yelling or screaming with it being a poorly sound proofed environment?

That could explain why not much was heard.

Only it doesn't explain why Yasuko was quiet if there were indeed two attacks on her and Niina.

If in a stabbing frenzy, however, both could have been silenced easily within a matter of seconds and especially as he didn't succeed the first time.

Photos of the crime scene and the autopsies should be sent to the FBI (criminal profilers/forensics) as am sure they would be able to work out exactly what went down that night.

Back to reading more on it and catching up...

Keep up the good work!.

Actually - it depended as to whether or not they would disclose the name of a perpetrator only sometimes it use to infuriate me as they seemed to have no problems releasing certain details about the victims, but seemed to protect the offender. I think when it came to anyone considered a minor that information was withheld or if the charges hadn't been made official.

Eventually I suppose all persons involved would be made public - if not initially.

 

[AC4RD]

First, apologies for a n00b's uninformed question. I'd heard of the Setagaya murders but didn't know details before yesterday when I saw this on WS. I've read the introductory detail from Faceless's first pages, and then read through a dozen of the most recent pages, trying to understand. Many questions came to me as I read and I found most of the questions were explained away with more reading.

One question that occurred to me that I haven't seen explained involves the murderer's entry into the house. I quite agree that the window seems like a VERY unlikely entry point. Though if the TMPD say it was the entry point, I suppose there may be factors or evidence they have not publically admitted. (The other question is how they're so certain about the sand. I accept TMPD's saying it's certain, I just wonder at the "how." Chemical spectrography perhaps? Do we know?)

But with regard to the front door as an entry point: I read somewhere in the pages that the family had been out shopping that day. Is it possible the murderer came WITH the family? That is, Murderer-San sees family out shopping, "Hello! Remember me?" Then he has a sad story about being alone for the day, he is invited home with the family, and enters WITH them, as an invited guest?

This would seem to be ruled out by the murderer's being seen on video buying the knife. But it seems at least possible ("unlikely" I'll agree with) that he said, "Say, why don't I run out and get us some snacks?" And returned, already welcome in the house, with a knife in his pocket and mayhem in his plans? Would his presence have been mentioned in the 10pm phone call if he were in the house with the family?

The photos caught me: such a beautiful young family, so happy looking. It's truly tragic and deserves to be solved, even if it is too late for the criminal to be punished. --ken (Oh, and I WILL certainly listen to the podcasts, though like many have said, I much prefer to read details rather than to hear them.)

 

[MiniMoo]

Still reading and finding out as much as possible and just want to ask about the garage.

I know it was ruled out, but what was so evident that it was eliminated as an entry point? exit point?

Does anyone know if it had an electronic or pull up garage door?

What if the perpetrator was waiting at the side of the building waiting for the car to be garaged and slid in undetected hiding underneath the car until all was quiet.

or...

Got in through the garage door, if a pull up style, as it may have been unlocked so the easiest way to enter the main house within seconds.

Not that this will change what happened inside the house - it will just address one question I have right now.

Anyhow, because of a parked vehicle would anyone really have looked or swabbed beneath it for traces of DNA or fibres especially if the window was strongly thought to be the point of entry due to Rei.

I apologise if it has been asked and answered before about the garage.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Still reading and finding out as much as possible and just want to ask about the garage.

I know it was ruled out, but what was so evident that it was eliminated as an entry point? exit point?

Does anyone know if it had an electronic or pull up garage door?

What if the perpetrator was waiting at the side of the building waiting for the car to be garaged and slid in undetected hiding underneath the car until all was quiet.

or...

Got in through the garage door, if a pull up style, as it may have been unlocked so the easiest way to enter the main house within seconds.

Not that this will change what happened inside the house - it will just address one question I have right now.

Anyhow, because of a parked vehicle would anyone really have looked or swabbed beneath it for traces of DNA or fibres especially if the window was strongly thought to be the point of entry due to Rei.

I apologise if it has been asked and answered before about the garage.

Apparently, the police said there was no evidence that the killer entered the garage. Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Someone knocking or ringing a doorbell at 10:30pm in an area that is quite secluded seems rather odd unless that person is expected, of course. But that would be highly unusual. I also remember it not being so common for anyone to frequent others homes socially as well when I lived in Tokyo and that was normal. And if we look at the inside of the Miyazawa family home it wasn't t exactly designed really to entertain anyone. My point is I don't feel the perpetrator walked through the front door that easily especially at a late time like 10:30pm and not in such an isolated location. The second floor window is questionable as well as it should have had DNA or fragments of fibres whether on the wall, the box or the window frame.

Screaming:
Is there a possibility that Mikio, Yasuko and Niina had their throats xxxxx as to why no one heard any yelling or screaming with it being a poorly sound proofed environment? That could explain why not much was heard.

Only it doesn't explain why Yasuko was quiet if there were indeed two attacks on her and Niina.

If in a stabbing frenzy, however, both could have been silenced easily within a matter of seconds and especially as he didn't succeed the first time.

Photos of the crime scene and the autopsies should be sent to the FBI (criminal profilers/forensics) as am sure they would be able to work out exactly what went down that night.

Back to reading more on it and catching up...

Keep up the good work!.

Thank you for your thoughts, MiniMoo. In response:

*Whether or not the killer was expected, it's still unknown to this day. But I would think the Tokyo MPD by now --after all the time and money they've thrown at this-- would have uncovered the killer had he been known to the Miyazawas. I can't say that for sure but all logic points to the killer being a stranger. Either way, if the killer entered via the front door, he would have required Mikio's permission to go past him upstairs as Rei, the young son, was the first victim. This is certain according to the TMPD. We also know the killer clashed with Mikio on the landing -- with Mikio coming up the stairs. So all that suggests to me that the killer did NOT enter via the front door and he didn't know his victims.

*None of the victims had their throats slit and while I suppose shock or some other unexplained element could mean there was a scenario that four murder victims didn't make a peep as a stranger with a knife invaded their home... But that makes very little sense to me. It raises the problem as to why their family members next door heard NOTHING except for a banging sound (later proved to be the attic ladder). I can't really talk about Ann Irie here or her family. So, let's assume there were screams. I can tell you the sound guy during the making of my podcast on this case (FACELESS) said that categorically, it would be impossible for the family next door not to hear them. Make of that what you will...

*As for the stabbing frenzy: the killer went up into the attic and stabbed Niina and Yasuko in the bed but aborted the attack when he realised his knife was broken (damaged by Mikio's skull). He went downstairs to fetch a carving knife as Niina and Yasuko struggled down the ladder. He met them again at the landing where he went into his stabbing frenzy, stabbing them "long after the point of death". Again, I have a hard time believing that nobody screamed, or even that a struggle was not heard given how thin those walls were.

*Finally, without getting too much into the politics of the Tokyo MPD, I think cooperating with a foreign law enforcement entity -- particularly on the DNA front -- is just not going to happen. I spoke with the ex-chief leading this case multiple times during the making of the podcast. He certainly didn't think it was likely unless there were major changes.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Actually - it depended as to whether or not they would disclose the name of a perpetrator only sometimes it use to infuriate me as they seemed to have no problems releasing certain details about the victims, but seemed to protect the offender. I think when it came to anyone considered a minor that information was withheld or if the charges hadn't been made official.

Eventually I suppose all persons involved would be made public - if not initially.

Hard agree. The victims get no privacy, whereas the killer is completely shrouded. Particularly given the legal difficulties in employing new investigative DNA techniques.