Jason Young to get new trial #3

[minor4th]

Not only can one argue it, it was argued in his trials and, if there's a 3rd trial, will be argued again. He didn't need to tamper with ALL the cameras in the hotel and not even all the cameras on one floor. He only needed to tamper with the one camera that covered the one stairwell entrance. This has been detailed many times over the years and there are plenty of pictures on WS because I remember seeing some of them a few years ago.

I wish I had seen this post before I used so many words detailing all the camera anomalies, or non-anomalies, depending on one's perspective

 

[otto]

Otto,

You've been following this case many years longer than I have and in much greater detail. There are probably hundreds of posts on WS over the years talking about the various cameras in the hotels, with some in depth analysis. You'll need to review prior posts, including the ones you wrote, and the testimony on wral.com to determine the facts of the case.

I'm not here to do homework for others, nor will I. I formed my opinions based on what I saw during the trials. I watched the testimony. The video testimony is available for one and all on wral.com. It's a helpful resource and no one has to take the word of anyone else, as they can watch testimony for themselves and come to their own conclusion. In fact, when there's an opportunity to do so, it's the best way to determine a case. Why take anyone else's word for anything if you have the chance to see and hear it for yourself? It's rare that case followers have that opportunity.

I was asking for clarification regarding the comment made where it was stated that I was mistaken about the cameras. My recollection is that the prosecution argued that the camera at the exit was tampered with by Jason because he did not want anyone to see him returning to his hotel room at 6:35AM. We know that there are cameras on the fourth floor at each end of the hallway. If he was going to tamper with cameras, he should have tampered with all of them, not just 1/3. Tampering with 1/3 cameras does nothing to avoid being captured by the cameras.

I do not recall any testimony about anyone tampering with cameras on the fourth floor, so if I am wrong, then I would ask for clarification. Otherwise, I'll return to my belief that there was no evidence that the cameras on the fourth floor were tampered with ... and therefore, the theory that Jason tampered with cameras falls apart if only one camera on the main floor was unplugged, and all other cameras could have captured his movements as he allegedly traveled to the fourth floor of the hotel to retrieve his newspaper and receipt.

In short, I've stated that there is no testimony about tampering with the fourth floor cameras. I've been told I'm wrong. I'm open minded, but I do need more than a recommendation to view many hours of trial testimony to accept that I'm mistaken.

 

[otto]

Yes there was a lot of testimony about the cameras that were tampered with, but there was essentially no testimony or explanation of what it means that:

1. There are no camera captures of Jason entering his room on the 4th floor 6 minutes after he checked in, No pictures of him taking the elevator to the 4th floor.

2. No camera captures of Jason leaving his 4th floor room, traveling down the stairwell, or leaving through the emergency exit with the security camera to retrieve his charger from his car

3. No camera captures of Jason re-entering the hotel back through the propped open emergency exit next to the stairwell at roughly the same time the stairwell camera was unplugged

4. No surveillance footage of Jason arriving back on the 4th floor with his charger around 11:20 and no captures of him re-entering his propped open 4th floor hotel room.

5. No captures of Jason leaving his 4th floor room or walking on the 4th floor around midnight when he took a different route without being captured by any of the hotel's 14 cameras - somehow appearing at the lobby desk at midnight in different clothes than his Cracker Barrel attire and getting a newspaper

6, Video of Jason walking down the hall towards the side exit ( even though he was only a couple of feet from the main entrance/exit at the lobby) and towards the now- inoperable stairwell camera. But no video of him leaving the hotel to smoke a cigar and read the paper, no video of him returning through the propped open door or otherwise, no video of him on the 4th floor or re-entering his propped-open -door hotel room to nestle on for the whole night.

7. No video of Jason leaving his 4th floor room at around 6:30 a.m., no video of him anywhere on the 4th floor, no video of Jason taking the elevator downstairs with his luggage or leaving the hotel (through any door, by any camera)

8. No video of Jason anywhere in the hotel the morning of Nov 3, and a conspicuous absence of Jason on any video shot of the breakfast buffet area where he claims to have sat down and eaten breakfast.

Really think about all of these circumstances and tell me how this is possible if Jason did all the coming and going he testified about.

The question has been raised as to how Jason could possibly leave the hotel at midnight for several hours and return at 6:30 and grab his receipt without ever being captured on camera. My answer is he obviously was able to enter and leave the hotel at least twice without being captured on video and enter and leave his 4th floor hotel room at least three times according to Jason's story and never be caught on video.

That's amazing! It's even more amazing than Jason entering and leaving his room once at around 11, eluding all cameras, getting a newspaper at midnight and leaving the hotel through a propped open side door with no operable camera -and returning around 6-6:30 pointing the stairwell camera up and entering and leaving his 4th floor room once more at 6:30 -ish to grab his receipt and exit through the door with the tampered with camera.

Really chew on this because I suggest the only camera evidence that means anything is the two shots of him at the front desk and in the side hallway (established two points of reference for charting his location at specific times). And the timing of the stairwell camera being tampered with twice. Other than that the absence of Jason in any other surveillance neither proves that he was in his room all night, nor does it prove that he was not in his room.

Poor guy - if he had only taken his key arc with him on all those trips outside and back into his room, he could have totally exonerated himself and proved his alibi was airtight!!

It seems to me that the only still shots released by police, and only time period of interest, is after Jason stopped at the front desk ... after he had been to his room. What is the point of presenting still shots of Jason checking in and going to his room?

 

[minor4th]

We don't know why Jason decided to transfer day to day care of his daughter to Meredith. We can't judge that. He certainly wouldn't be the first parent to completely back away from an acrimonious custody dispute that was ugly at the outset.

Seriously - I certainly can judge that by making logical inferences and drawing rational conclusions. Justice does not require us to abandon reason or deny us the use of our understanding and experiences of the world.

The only logical inference is that Jason gave primary custody to Meredith to avoid having to answer questions of plead the 5th while his criminal trial was still pending. If it was just too much trouble or too stressful to go through a custody fight, he could have just said that. Instead he claimed he didn't have the money, but that wasn't true.

Really - he didn't just have a sudden and spontaneous change of heart, concluding that Cassidy is better off with Meredith when he had previously thought it was best for Cassidy to have no contact with MF.

 

[minor4th]

It seems to me that the only still shots released by police, and only time period of interest, is after Jason stopped at the front desk ... after he had been to his room. What is the point of presenting still shots of Jason checking in and going to his room?

Same point in showing stills of him at the front desk and walking toward the side exit. It puts Jason in a particular at a particular time. The defense was free to use any other video or stills of Jason during his hotel stay - but they didn't so we can assume there weren't any that corroborate Jason's story.

 

[minor4th]

My brain is tired from thinking and writing about this case tonight. I'm going to go do something fun and social now

Goodnight.

 

[Madeleine74]

I'm not sure there were cameras at the stairwell exits on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th floor. Something I read said there was a camera pointed at the elevator on each floor. I've read nothing to indicate any cameras on any other floor except at the elevator. There may only have been cameras at the entrance/exit on the first floor doors, along with whatever other cameras were in the lobby, breakfast area, etc.

Minor,

JY was seen on video at the elevator, with his luggage, heading up to his room. He was wearing a different outfit than what he was seen wearing about an hour later.

I agree it's sadly ironic that the camera that could have captured him going back to his room, since he said he used that stairway, which would have made for an airtight alibi, had first been unplugged then later pushed away from that very stairwell. And darn it, the one night to decide to not fully close the hotel room door where a key card would otherwise have to be used to show entrance into a room, which would have further corroborated an alibi, on top of cameras being moved. All on the same night in which a stop with no reservation at a hotel halfway to a business appointment still allows a person to be in striking distance of the victim. Those are some bad odds.

 

[otto]

Same point in showing stills of him at the front desk and walking toward the side exit. It puts Jason in a particular at a particular time. The defense was free to use any other video or stills of Jason during his hotel stay - but they didn't so we can assume there weren't any that corroborate Jason's story.

We cannot assume that there were no video stills showing Jason entering the hotel in the evening, checking in, and traveling to his fourth floor room. There is no value in showing those stills during a murder trial as there was no dispute about the time that he arrived at the hotel. There is also no value in showing stills of him heading to the front desk. The stills that were released show Jason at the front desk at about midnight and heading towards the exit where he smoked a cigar. That's the extent of the still shots that were released. The prosecution claims that Jason got in his car and drove back to Raleigh, Jason stated that he stepped out to smoke a cigar and retrieve his laptop power cable. No other still shots were relevant to the case, but that doesn't mean that there were no other still shots.

 

[JusticeFever]

How did the night clerk/auditor go to Jason's room 2 times and not just walk past his door, but put something on his door and under the door, but, not see the door open or ajar either time?

 

[JusticeFever]

I was asking for clarification regarding the comment made where it was stated that I was mistaken about the cameras. My recollection is that the prosecution argued that the camera at the exit was tampered with by Jason because he did not want anyone to see him returning to his hotel room at 6:35AM. We know that there are cameras on the fourth floor at each end of the hallway. If he was going to tamper with cameras, he should have tampered with all of them, not just 1/3. Tampering with 1/3 cameras does nothing to avoid being captured by the cameras.

I do not recall any testimony about anyone tampering with cameras on the fourth floor, so if I am wrong, then I would ask for clarification. Otherwise, I'll return to my belief that there was no evidence that the cameras on the fourth floor were tampered with ... and therefore, the theory that Jason tampered with cameras falls apart if only one camera on the main floor was unplugged, and all other cameras could have captured his movements as he allegedly traveled to the fourth floor of the hotel to retrieve his newspaper and receipt.

In short, I've stated that there is no testimony about tampering with the fourth floor cameras. I've been told I'm wrong. I'm open minded, but I do need more than a recommendation to view many hours of trial testimony to accept that I'm mistaken.

There was no tampering with cameras on the 4th floor.

 

[otto]

There was no tampering with cameras on the 4th floor.

Thank you. That's what I said earlier today. The camera at the exit was tampered with, and on that basis, police stated that Jason tampered with the camera. If it was true that Jason needed to tamper with cameras to avoid being seen entering the hotel in the morning, why didn't he tamper with cameras on the fourth floor as well?

 

[JusticeFever]

Thank you. That's what I said earlier today. The camera at the exit was tampered with, and on that basis, police stated that Jason tampered with the camera. If it was true that Jason needed to tamper with cameras to avoid being seen entering the hotel in the morning, why didn't he tamper with cameras on the fourth floor as well?

You are welcome, and the same thing holds for his morning exit.....how did he miss all the cameras leaving in the am?

 

[otto]

You are welcome, and the same thing holds for his morning exit.....how did he miss all the cameras leaving in the am?

This is the angle of the cameras at the ends of the hallways. I don't understand why one of the cameras didn't capture his movements on the fourth floor.

https://stopwrongfulconvictions.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/jy-hallway.jpg

Also, if Jason wanted to be sure that no one knew that he left the building, why then, after stopping at the front desk, did he head for the exit dressed for going outside, rather than back up to his room? He left the building, yet he was sneaking back to Raleigh ... trying to be so sneaky that he moved and later unplugged a camera at the exit.

http://stopwrongfulconvictions.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/hi-shirt.jpg

 

[minor4th]

We cannot assume that there were no video stills showing Jason entering the hotel in the evening, checking in, and traveling to his fourth floor room. There is no value in showing those stills during a murder trial as there was no dispute about the time that he arrived at the hotel. There is also no value in showing stills of him heading to the front desk. The stills that were released show Jason at the front desk at about midnight and heading towards the exit where he smoked a cigar. That's the extent of the still shots that were released. The prosecution claims that Jason got in his car and drove back to Raleigh, Jason stated that he stepped out to smoke a cigar and retrieve his laptop power cable. No other still shots were relevant to the case, but that doesn't mean that there were no other still shots.

I think there are no other still shots, and I think any shots of him would be relevant.

 

[MyBelle]

Thank you. That's what I said earlier today. The camera at the exit was tampered with, and on that basis, police stated that Jason tampered with the camera. If it was true that Jason needed to tamper with cameras to avoid being seen entering the hotel in the morning, why didn't he tamper with cameras on the fourth floor as well?

I think the question jurors will have at the next trial is where are the security images from the fourth floor? If their theory is that Jason didn't return for hours on end, why weren't all the images collected from that fourth floor camera to cover his leaving his room and for the duration of his absence? Good grief, he testified he left his room TWICE. Jason had no control over what images LE seized in their investigation. The hotel staff testified the other cameras were functioning properly.

Next trial, his attorney will have a field day pointing all of this out....if there is a next trial.

JMO

 

[minor4th]

This is the angle of the cameras at the ends of the hallways. I don't understand why one of the cameras didn't capture his movements on the fourth floor.



https://stopwrongfulconvictions.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/jy-hallway.jpg



Also, if Jason wanted to be sure that no one knew that he left the building, why then, after stopping at the front desk, did he head for the exit dressed for going outside, rather than back up to his room? He left the building, yet he was sneaking back to Raleigh ... trying to be so sneaky that he moved and later unplugged a camera at the exit.



http://stopwrongfulconvictions.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/hi-shirt.jpg

No, he had already unplugged the camera

 

[otto]

I think there are no other still shots, and I think any shots of him would be relevant.

It was mentioned upthread that there's another photo of him at the elevator.

 

[otto]

I think the question jurors will have at the next trial is where are the security images from the fourth floor? If their theory is that Jason didn't return for hours on end, why weren't all the images collected from that fourth floor camera to cover his leaving his room and for the duration of his absence? Good grief, he testified he left his room TWICE. Jason had no control over what images LE seized in their investigation. The hotel staff testified the other cameras were functioning properly.

Next trial, his attorney will have a field day pointing all of this out....if there is a next trial.

JMO

Was the footage from the fourth floor reviewed? Wouldn't that be the first thing to review. Did investigators examine Jason's fourth floor hotel room door?

Why was his keycard only used once when he left to smoke a cigar once?

 

[otto]

No, he had already unplugged the camera

I didn't know that.
At what time was the camera unplugged?

 

[otto]

Wait a minute. The camera was tilted in the evening, not unplugged, so the theory is that he came down the stairwell from the fourth floor, tilted the camera near the exit, went to the front desk, then went back towards the exit (recorded on video), and left the building. Tilting the camera was supposed to cammouflage the fact that he was heading for the exit dressed like he was leaving to smoke a cigar on a windy evening - to prep for his meeting the following morning? Unplugging the camera in the morning was supposed to eliminate video still shots of him returning to the hotel, yet even though only one camera was tampered with, he supposed made it to his fourth floor room without a single still shot from any of the 14 cameras in the hotel?

Are there still shots of staff placing newspapers and receipts under doors? Surely that takes more than 14 seconds. Were the cameras working? Were the fourth floor video stills requested?