Jason Young to get new trial #3

[Madeleine74]

This area seems to have a cluster of spousal homicides in the past several years, but no idea if that number is way above average or not. It feels like a lot, but that could be misleading.

It appears only white males (especially spouses) are being "railroaded" in this state and country, garnering outrage and support. Different heritage/race or female spousal killers are, by and large, on their own. As an example, don't see anyone here claiming either Melanie McGuire or Harish Patel have been railroaded. Patel lived in NC. McGuire lived in NJ.

 

[Madeleine74]

At the time of the civil cases, both wrongful death and custody, JY was not indicted for murder and there was no indication he would be. Two years had passed and civil litigation was the only recourse available to the Fisher family. No reason for a judge to not rule in the civil action. The defendant defaulted and that was that. JY knew the deadline. It would not have taken hundreds of thousands of dollars to respond to the filing. It would have taken one letter. An attorney could have requested more time for discovery. When it came to bailing out JY before trial #2, his mommy managed to come up with over $1M to get her son out. Also, JY gave $12K in monies to his sister and mommy back in the 2006/07 timeframe. Financially he absolutely could respond to a civil complaint. He had posession of 2 vehicles, he gave his wife's Lexus to his sister to drive.

Had JY not barred CY's aunt and maternal grandma from all contact with CY, then I bet they would not have gone on to file a civil custody suit. Their lawyer, on the stand, said under oath, they wanted visitation and had to go the legal route when they were cut off. Why were they cut off? Their visits were few and far between and supervised from the moment CY was whisked away after her acting out her mommy's murder with the little dolls at daycare.

I'd like someone to point out and provide a link where LF or MF made public statements about JY. I didn't know about this case until late 2008 so it's possible I never saw those statements, but I can say I've never seen or read anything publicly stated by either of them before the 2011 trial.

BTW, I don't consider civil suit filings in assertions of "negative public statements by the family." Those are legal documents and there's no way for an individual plaintiff to control the distribution of a legal document and keep the media from getting their hands on it. It's up to the lawyers to submit motions to keep legal filings secret or at least try to defer their publication.

 

[minor4th]

http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi...turl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpage=1



Then why is JY still in prison.......an innocent man would not be incarcerated.

He will continue to be detained because he remains under indictment on murder charges. He'll stay there til he makes bond or the charges are dismissed or he gets acquitted in his third trial.

 

[minor4th]

At the time of the civil cases, both wrongful death and custody, JY was not indicted for murder and there was no indication he would be. Two years had passed and civil litigation was the only recourse available to the Fisher family. No reason for a judge to not rule in the civil action. The defendant defaulted and that was that. JY knew the deadline. It would not have taken hundreds of thousands of dollars to respond to the filing. It would have taken one letter. An attorney could have requested more time for discovery. When it came to bailing out JY before trial #2, his mommy managed to come up with over $1M to get her son out. Also, JY gave $12K in monies to his sister and mommy back in the 2006/07 timeframe. Financially he absolutely could respond to a civil complaint. He had posession of 2 vehicles, he gave his wife's Lexus to his sister to drive.

Had JY not barred CY's aunt and maternal grandma from all contact with CY, then I bet they would not have gone on to file a civil custody suit. Their lawyer, on the stand, said under oath, they wanted visitation and had to go the legal route when they were cut off. Why were they cut off? Their visits were few and far between and supervised from the moment CY was whisked away after her acting out her mommy's murder with the little dolls at daycare.

I'd like someone to point out and provide a link where LF or MF made public statements about JY. I didn't know about this case until late 2008 so it's possible I never saw those statements, but I can say I've never seen or read anything publicly stated by either of them before the 2011 trial.

BTW, I don't consider civil suit filings in assertions of "negative public statements." Those are legal documents and there's no way for an individual plaintiff to control the distribution of a legal document and keep the media from getting their hands on it. It's up to the lawyers to submit motions to keep legal filings secret or at least try to defer their publication.

Exactly so.

 

[oenophile]

http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/opi...turl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpage=1

Then why is JY still in prison.......an innocent man would not be incarcerated.

Two reasons. First, he remains under indictment, just like he was before either trial. He is accused, but still innocent until proven guilty. Second, the state has asked the Supreme Court to review the case, so while the appeal is in effect, it is essentially on hold until the Supreme Court decides whether they review it or not. If they decide not to review it, which is highly likely, then JY comes up for a bond hearing again.

And besides that, innocent men are incarcerated all the time. The U.S. justice system has some pretty radical flaws, some of which benefit the guilty and some of which punish the innocent.

In this case, the guilty have gone free while the innocent man sits in jail.[modsnip]

 

[minor4th]

I agree wholeheartedly. The Wake County sheriff department and Raleigh PD are outstanding, and do an amazing job at apprehending and prosecuting criminals. I'm very impressed with their detectives. The prosecutors' passion for justice is obvious. They have tough jobs and could make a lot more $ in private practice. I really admire them.



I'm not familiar with all the judges, but I have the utmost respect for Judge Donald Stephens.

That's good to hear.

I like Judge Stephens a lot and his rulings have been sound and well reasoned. He erred when he allowed the custody petition to be read to the jury -- but I have come to realize it's not as egregious as I first thought because even the defense was talking about the custody case all over the place, during cross examination of the state's witnesses and direct examination of their own witnesses.

Does anyone know if this was the subject of a pre-trial motion in limine? I would be surprised if it was not. If like to read the minutes and order if there was a pre-trial motion and hearing.

 

[oenophile]

I can speak for others when saying "The Civil Suit did not sway our opinion at all as we formed an opinion as to JY's guilt way before this action!"

Many formed an opinion as to JY's guilt before there was any evidence heard. And some of those have stated that there is nothing that would change their mind that he is guilty.

 

[Madeleine74]

That's good to hear.

I like Judge Stephens a lot and his rulings have been sound and well reasoned. He erred when he allowed the custody petition to be read to the jury -- but I have come to realize it's not as egregious as I first thought because even the defense was talking about the custody case all over the place, during cross examination of the state's witnesses and direct examination of their own witnesses.

Does anyone know if this was the subject of a pre-trial motion in limine? I would be surprised if it was not. If like to read the minutes and order if there was a pre-trial motion and hearing.

Judge Stephens is wicked smart and I was impressed when I saw him in person at a different hearing. He's quiet, but no nonsense. He appears to garner respect from both sides of the aisle and his rulings in the hearing I saw did not favor one side over the other. Both sides won some and lost some. He's the most senior superior court judge. I've heard he's going to retire "soon," but I've not seen a specific timeframe for that.

 

[SteelerGirl43]

Many formed an opinion as to JY's guilt before there was any evidence heard. And some of those have stated that there is nothing that would change their mind that he is guilty.

They sure did.... One could have a video of someone else murdering MY & some would still say it was JY because they have said nothing will make them change their minds.. So sad!!! In America its no longer innocent until proven guilty its guilty until proven innocent.... Such a shame...

 

[minor4th]

I agree there was a close relationship between Michelle's family and her child prior to her murder. My reference was to the years of time between Michelle's murder and the custody agreement. Nearly three years for a motherless child to be with her biological dad and some pretty nasty things were said about him in public documents that she can find and read. I think it would be terribly traumatic to the child to lose daily contact with her only remaining parent after all that time.



My thoughts are with the child's best interest only. In my opinion it is cruel to do that to any child and may have long term emotional impact on her.



JMO

First of all, Cassidy is going to be long-term emotionally impacted no matter what. Her mother was murdered (possibly in her presence), and her father has been incarcerated.

You say it's "cruel" to separate a child from her parent - but who put Cassidy in that position to lose both her parents so cruelly?Not Michelle;; she's dead. Not the Fishers; they agreed to joint custody with Jason.

Not the police or prosecutors; they had probable cause to arrest Jason, and he was duly indicted, bound over for trial, and detained.

Who's left? Jason, the murder suspect and defendant who remains incarcerated.

If Jason murdered Michelle, I think we can all agree that Jason inflicted terrible cruelty on his daughter by depriving her of both parents. Or can your mind not allow Jason to be responsible or accountable even if he murdered Michelle?

He had three years in which to help the police verify his alibi and his story; he had an opportunity to talk to the Fishers and the attorneys and courts and counsellors about the details of his activities on Nov 2 and 3. Of course he is not legally required to clear his name or help police or talk to the Fishers - but his failure to do so creates a reasonable inference that he murdered Michelle -- whether that's true or not.


Since you are so passionate in your conviction that it's cruel to take a child away from a parent - then you should be angry and outraged at Jason Young because he inflicted this cruelty on Cassidy. She loves her dad! How could Jason be so heartless to put Cassidy through these ongoing traumatic upheavals?

 

[minor4th]

Many formed an opinion as to JY's guilt before there was any evidence heard. And some of those have stated that there is nothing that would change their mind that he is guilty.

AFAIK only one has said that there is nothing that could change their opinion that JY is guilty.

For those who are convinced he's innocent, is there anything that would change your mind that he is innocent (short of a video tape of him committing the murder and another video of him yelling at Gracie at 5:30 a.m.)?

Show of hands - whose minds are really still open?

 

[minor4th]

Are there any verified insiders posting about this case? TIA.

 

[MyBelle]

The conviction no longer exists. He is innocent again.

I guess this is a good example of how damaging the civil suit was in prejudicing the public. Judge Stephens did not have to issue a declaration when JY didn't respond. He could have waited until after the criminal proceedings. That would have been the proper thing to do.

The appellate court agrees with you and so does probably anybody with common sense. It might be time for the Judge to step aside and retire. The system seems to have lost its integrity plus the lawsuits being filed by those wrongfully convicted are starting to mount up in costs to taxpayers.

In other murder cases, the civil suit was set aside until after the criminal trial. O.J Simpson and Scott Peterson to name two high profile ones.

JMO

 

[otto]

That's good to hear.

I like Judge Stephens a lot and his rulings have been sound and well reasoned. He erred when he allowed the custody petition to be read to the jury -- but I have come to realize it's not as egregious as I first thought because even the defense was talking about the custody case all over the place, during cross examination of the state's witnesses and direct examination of their own witnesses.

Does anyone know if this was the subject of a pre-trial motion in limine? I would be surprised if it was not. If like to read the minutes and order if there was a pre-trial motion and hearing.

I don't know the answer to that question, however ...

I recall the comments he made after the verdict was read and it came through loud and clear that he was not impartial, and that he had strong opinions about Jason's guilt on grounds that were not really raised during the trial. I haven't listened to his comments since then, but I remember his stance that Jason was an abusive husband that treated Michelle poorly throughout the marriage. What surprised me about these remarks was that this was not a point that was stated by the prosecution.

 

[otto]

Are there any verified insiders posting about this case? TIA.

No ... in the time that I've followed the case (Nov 3, 2006) I have never come across a verified insider. I believe there are some people that followed the case and met the family after the murder, but none that knew Michelle and the family prior to the murder.

 

[otto]

AFAIK only one has said that there is nothing that could change their opinion that JY is guilty.

For those who are convinced he's innocent, is there anything that would change your mind that he is innocent (short of a video tape of him committing the murder and another video of him yelling at Gracie at 5:30 a.m.)?

Show of hands - whose minds are really still open?

I was convinced that he was guilty for years. It is only in watching the case unfold that I have revisited the foundations of the case and developed doubt about his guilt. I was always aware of the tunnel vision nature of the case, but that isn't always a mistake. At this time, I'm inclined to think it was a mistake. It now appears to me that police have put together a list of information that they believe is sufficient for guilt, but when examining that list, we discover that the much of the circumstantial evidence does not connect to Jason.

1. I have always had problems with the gas station identification of Jason because the attendant described a man that is 5' tall, a photo line up was not used, and the attendant has a life long history of severe memory problems. In fact, other information that she provided about events and customers for that day could never be corroborated.

2. At the Hillsville hotel, one camera was moved in the evening. It could not be connected to Jason and prints on the camera belonged to someone else

3. At the Hillsville hotel, the same camera was unplugged. Again, no connection to Jason. There were 14 cameras in the hotel and Jason was on the fourth floor. Why was only one camera tampered with at 6:35AM if Jason had to pass several cameras to return to his room in the morning.

4. Police claim that Jason left his hotel room door propped open. Eye witness testimony from the person that placed a receipt under the door, and at another time hung a newspaper from the door handle, is that the door was securely locked. Police claim the eye witness is mistaken.

5. Police claim that Jason used a rock to prop open the exit door so that he could enter the hotel between 6 and 7AM. The door was automatically unlocked each morning at 6AM, so Jason did not need to prop open the door. Given the timelines, he would return after the door was unlocked.

6. Jason had no way of knowing that the gas station where he allegedly purchased gas had no cameras.

7. Bloody prints at the crime scene belong to someone with a shoe size two sizes smaller than Jason's shoe size. Police have attempted to connect those shoes to him, without success.

8. There is evidence of blood on the carpet between the master bedroom and the child's bedroom. This carpet goes in front of the bathroom where there were child's bloody prints. Investigators then state that it is logical to believe that the child was carried to the bathroom. For me, that is not logical. It is not possible to state that although there is blood on the carpet, the child did not transfer that blood.

9. In the bathroom, there is clearly evidence of one person: a child. If the child was cleaned up in the bathroom, how did the person that carried her and cleaned her manage to avoid stepping in the bloody prints?

... I could go on, but that is some of the circumstantial evidence that is used to convict Jason, but which is not clearly connected to him. It seems that police decided that Jason was guilty, and then looked at anything and everything that could be used to bolster that belief.

 

[MyBelle]

They sure did.... One could have a video of someone else murdering MY & some would still say it was JY because they have said nothing will make them change their minds.. So sad!!! In America its no longer innocent until proven guilty its guilty until proven innocent.... Such a shame...

It is a shame but my adult children are quite aware the concept still exists. Jason's friends were obviously tuned in to it. TV lawyer and cop pundits have become a joke to that generation to the point one has been openly mocked on SNL for years.

I don't believe it is a coincidence that all these wrongful convictions coming to light now are in roughly the same time frame beginning with O.J.'s not guilty verdict.

JMO

 

[otto]

First of all, Cassidy is going to be long-term emotionally impacted no matter what. Her mother was murdered (possibly in her presence), and her father has been incarcerated.

You say it's "cruel" to separate a child from her parent - but who put Cassidy in that position to lose both her parents so cruelly?Not Michelle;; she's dead. Not the Fishers; they agreed to joint custody with Jason.

Not the police or prosecutors; they had probable cause to arrest Jason, and he was duly indicted, bound over for trial, and detained.

Who's left? Jason, the murder suspect and defendant who remains incarcerated.

If Jason murdered Michelle, I think we can all agree that Jason inflicted terrible cruelty on his daughter by depriving her of both parents. Or can your mind not allow Jason to be responsible or accountable even if he murdered Michelle?

He had three years in which to help the police verify his alibi and his story; he had an opportunity to talk to the Fishers and the attorneys and courts and counsellors about the details of his activities on Nov 2 and 3. Of course he is not legally required to clear his name or help police or talk to the Fishers - but his failure to do so creates a reasonable inference that he murdered Michelle -- whether that's true or not.


Since you are so passionate in your conviction that it's cruel to take a child away from a parent - then you should be angry and outraged at Jason Young because he inflicted this cruelty on Cassidy. She loves her dad! How could Jason be so heartless to put Cassidy through these ongoing traumatic upheavals?

BBM

Police were always well aware of Jason's alibi. They had hotel receipts from the car. They knew every detail about his alibi, and then they attempted to demonstrate that it was a false alibi. He must have talked with the Fishers as he went to Meredith's house after the crime scene was isolated, and there were arrangements for visitation from the time of the murder until the arrest.

 

[oenophile]

AFAIK only one has said that there is nothing that could change their opinion that JY is guilty.

For those who are convinced he's innocent, is there anything that would change your mind that he is innocent (short of a video tape of him committing the murder and another video of him yelling at Gracie at 5:30 a.m.)?

Show of hands - whose minds are really still open?

I think I've stated before the things that would make me convinced of his guilt, but happy to provide again:

1. Any irrefutable evidence (e.g. video, etc) that puts him on the road to Raleigh on the night of the murder.
2. Physical evidence such as MY's blood on JY's clothes.
3. A ton of additional circumstantial evidence and elimination of the major pieces of exculpatory evidence (e.g. the gas mileage problem). The additional circumstantial evidence would include things like his customer saying that he looked exhausted like he hadn't slept all night.
4. A verified confession.

 

[MyBelle]

I don't know the answer to that question, however ...

I recall the comments he made after the verdict was read and it came through loud and clear that he was not impartial, and that he had strong opinions about Jason's guilt on grounds that were not really raised during the trial. I haven't listened to his comments since then, but I remember his stance that Jason was an abusive husband that treated Michelle poorly throughout the marriage. What surprised me about these remarks was that this was not a point that was stated by the prosecution.

BBM. ITA. I was flabbergasted when the Judge proclaimed it a case of domestic violence. The therapist testified Michelle told her Jason was never violent. There was not one witness who related an act of violence. The best they could muster was an old girlfriend who tussled over a ring and stayed in the relationship. But then, it was the same Judge who wanted the Jury to know he had previously proclaimed Jason to be a "slayer."

JMO