Jason Young to get new trial #3

[Madeleine74]

Such absolute B.S. Responding to a civil complaint costs the amount of 1 or 2 stamps, paper and envelope. This was in testimony. Doesn't even require a lawyer to do so. A continuance can be requested which buys a respondent time. In fact it's possible to get several continuances. Lorren Freeman (candidate for the DA's office) testified in this case as the Clerk of the Court. She talked about the options available for civil responses.

The idea that it costs thousand and thousands of dollars to respond to a civil complaint is simply not true.

But even if it was true, JY had many thousands of $$ at his disposal and that's not even counting momma's money. Momma was more than willing to bail him out when the time came. They had money and lots of it.

For the custody case had JY not removed his daughter from her maternal relative's lives, there wouldn't have been a custody case in the first place. JY gets the blame for that one. He and his momma tried to blackmail MY's family into making public statements proclaiming JY's innocence. They were told if they didn't make public statements that JY was innocent, he and his momma would remove access to CY for good. And that's exactly what they did. MY's family had made no public statements at all about JY. This is in testimony in both trials. Just vile for JY and his momma to use CY as a pawn to protect mamma's boy.

 

[MyBelle]

We can't forget that any information Jason provided in a custody dispute was going to be used by investigators per the murder. As with Brad Cooper, investigators were going to provide questions for which they wanted answers. Investigators wanted the information for the sole purpose of finding grounds to impugn him. For example, when Jason admitted that he used the medicine dropper to give diluted adult medication to the child, everyone from social media to investigators attempted to use that against him ... that is, now he allegedly drugged the child.

I don't understand this view of law and investigative techniques that it is all above board and kind. That is not how it works, especially when investigators have tunnel vision. Police were desperate for some sort of evidence to use against Jason and everyone knew it. Why should Jason walk onto trap doors when everyone could see them from miles away?

Seriously, if this was nothing more than an innocent visitation application, why was everyone so disappointed that Jason walked away from being pushed into a corner. Why should anyone care, or criticize, that he decided that Meredith was a suitable parent for his daughter? That answer seems to be that police didn't get what they wanted ... which means that this was about pinning Jason to a story rather than visitation.

BBM. That's more than obvious. And who better would know this fact other than Alice Stubbs who used it on Brad Cooper AND advised Jason Young to settle?

The Fishers failed in their quest to get full legal custody. They, too, settled for joint legal custody. They agreed to allow Jason unsupervised visitation. Ms. Stubbs knew exactly what she was doing.

all, JMO

 

[otto]

But the debt wasn't to a bank or collateralized by property he might lose. His family would not likely file a suit for past rent against him if he didn't pay that money to them so there were no looming consequences.

Jason considered it a higher priority to pay his relatives than to fight for custody or defend against a wrongful death lawsuit and exponentially higher debt/judgment that can be executed by seizing his property. It's his choice to spend his money as he finds suitable. In this instance his choices make him look guilty. And it's not true that he did not have funds to pay lawyers

That correct. It was Jason's decision that Meredith would be a suitable mother for his daughter. Apparently that is grounds for criticism. It is suggested that he should renege on all existing debt, borrow more money even though he was unemployed, and that he should fight to retain custody of his child even though he was having difficulties caring for his daughter and securing work.

When struggling parents make sound decisions regarding the care of their children, is that legitimate grounds for criticism?

 

[citygirl]

First of all, Cassidy is going to be long-term emotionally impacted no matter what. Her mother was murdered (possibly in her presence), and her father has been incarcerated.

You say it's "cruel" to separate a child from her parent - but who put Cassidy in that position to lose both her parents so cruelly?Not Michelle;; she's dead. Not the Fishers; they agreed to joint custody with Jason.

Not the police or prosecutors; they had probable cause to arrest Jason, and he was duly indicted, bound over for trial, and detained.

Who's left? Jason, the murder suspect and defendant who remains incarcerated.

If Jason murdered Michelle, I think we can all agree that Jason inflicted terrible cruelty on his daughter by depriving her of both parents. Or can your mind not allow Jason to be responsible or accountable even if he murdered Michelle?

He had three years in which to help the police verify his alibi and his story; he had an opportunity to talk to the Fishers and the attorneys and courts and counsellors about the details of his activities on Nov 2 and 3. Of course he is not legally required to clear his name or help police or talk to the Fishers - but his failure to do so creates a reasonable inference that he murdered Michelle -- whether that's true or not.


Since you are so passionate in your conviction that it's cruel to take a child away from a parent - then you should be angry and outraged at Jason Young because he inflicted this cruelty on Cassidy. She loves her dad! How could Jason be so heartless to put Cassidy through these ongoing traumatic upheavals?

You are an objective voice of reason. This just sums it up, IMO. So glad you are here.

 

[otto]

Yes and, iirc, he retained joint legal custody and only agreed Meredith would have full physical custody. He certainly is not going to have any trouble reuniting and obtaining full physical custody of his child should he be acquitted.

JMO

That's what I recall. All decisions about the day to day care of the child, such as education, religious, and medical decisions, would be joint.

 

[citygirl]

Are there any verified insiders posting about this case? TIA.

Good question. Not sure.

 

[minor4th]

The custody application affidavits documented rumors about Jason from his college years. That information was used to demonstrate that he was an unfit parent that required a psychological assessment. Visitation applications don't normally read like that, so this was not a straight forward visitation application.

That information was used to demonstrate nothing because the case never even had a hearing or went before the judge. It's only allegations and there's nothing out of the ordinary about that custody petition. It's ugly, nasty business.

I very seriously doubt a judge would have ordered a psychological assessment based solely on Jason's college behavior before he was married or had a child.


I do not believe the custody suit was a game for the Fishers, or some kind of strategy to force Jason to answer questions. I believe they knew he would not. If the purpose was something other than Cassidy's well being, they would not have settled for joint custody and an agreement not to conduct any discovery on Jason as well as allowing him to enter into an agreement without even filing an answer to the suit. They got nothing from this suit other than a custody and visitation schedule that allows Cassidy to maintain relationships with all the caring adults, including Jason.

 

[minor4th]

That's what I recall. All decisions about the day to day care of the child, such as education, religious, and medical decisions, would be joint.

It's actually joint legal and physical custody. Jason and Meredith both have rights to make decisions for Cassidy and participate in her upbringing.

 

[Madeleine74]

Unlike many I didn't know anything about this case when it happened back in 2006. My first awareness came a few years later. When I learned about the various actions that JY's family took to keep a young daughter away from a maternal side that clearly adored her, after she lost her mommy in a most brutal fashion, that's when I realized he was culpable. He and his family's actions helped paint the picture and drive home the point.

And then, giving away primary physical custody of a daughter just so he wouldn't have to take a psych exam and submit to being questioned showed me what and who was considered most important. JY was not under indictment when that occurred. Not for either civil action. I don't know of any parent who would agree to give away physical custody of a child just like that. Claiming $$$ as an excuse to do so is pitiful and a lie. And then, to see his momma easily put $1M+ up for bond, after claiming there wasn't any money to respond to a civil complaint during trial #1, really highlighted the lie.

On his own, without momma's help, JY had assets including: a rental condo, a house, a Lexus, a Ford Explorer, well over $12K cash (because he gave his momma & sister $12K). That's just off the top of my head. He had more. He had plenty of money to respond to any complaint. He and momma traveled, he dated, he had money. People sue each other every day in this country and it doesn't take hundreds of thousands. All it takes is showing up.

JY had already hired what is considered the top legal firm in town. Alice Stubbs happens to work for that firm as well. She is top notch. If you've got Alice Stubbs, you're going to get vigorous representation, regardless of what side you're on. But JY also had little Roger Smith as his first attorney. Wade's son.

 

[citygirl]

The appellate court agrees with you and so does probably anybody with common sense. It might be time for the Judge to step aside and retire. The system seems to have lost its integrity plus the lawsuits being filed by those wrongfully convicted are starting to mount up in costs to taxpayers.

In other murder cases, the civil suit was set aside until after the criminal trial. O.J Simpson and Scott Peterson to name two high profile ones.

JMO

I am so glad you brought up those two words: common sense. It seems to be lost in all these discussions. Where we differ is I think the judge is not only wise and experienced he is loaded with common sense. MOO.

 

[citygirl]

I don't know the answer to that question, however ...

I recall the comments he made after the verdict was read and it came through loud and clear that he was not impartial, and that he had strong opinions about Jason's guilt on grounds that were not really raised during the trial. I haven't listened to his comments since then, but I remember his stance that Jason was an abusive husband that treated Michelle poorly throughout the marriage. What surprised me about these remarks was that this was not a point that was stated by the prosecution.

I remember that. He is a man of principle that doesn't suffer fools gladly. He was disgusted after hearing the evidence that was presented. To say he was impartial is wrong.

 

[minor4th]

That correct. It was Jason's decision that Meredith would be a suitable mother for his daughter. Apparently that is grounds for criticism. It is suggested that he should renege on all existing debt, borrow more money even though he was unemployed, and that he should fight to retain custody of his child even though he was having difficulties caring for his daughter and securing work.



When struggling parents make sound decisions regarding the care of their children, is that legitimate grounds for criticism?

But do you really think Jason believed it was best for Cassidy if Meredith had primary custody and moved farther from him? I don't. If the Fishers had not brought the suit, Jason would still have Cassidy I'm his sole possession and she would have no contact with a the Fishers. That's not just a guess on my part - that's what Jason and his mother both told us and both demonstrated.

He WAS trying to retain full custody of Cassidy, despite the chaos and disruption and instability in his life, and he WAS trying to extricate the Fishers from Cassidy's life completely.

I do not criticize Jason for ultimately agreeing to joint custody with Meredith, and I applaud him for doing what's best for his daughter - irrespective of whether his motives were pure or not. He could have put everyone, including his daughter, through a prolonged and unnecessary custody battle that would have caused even more harm to Cassidy..

I wish he had done that by agreement before it became necessary for the Fishers to seek judicial intervention.

 

[oenophile]

Three things:

1. After reading the civil statute, I can understand why the family chose to pursue the wrongful death suit, as it had a 2 year statue of limitations. If they believed that JY was possibly the killer, then it made sense for them to file the suit as they did not know if the DA would file charges. I can't blame them for that, but I do think that there is something wrong with the statute if someone can use a civil suit to try to get around the fifth amendment.

2. Using the term "momma" to describe JY's mother is derogatory. She isn't on trial here.

3. I'd still like to have an explanation from someone who believes JY is guilty why JY would disable a single camera when he would have to pass multiple cameras in order to avoid being caught on film, and how he would ensure that the outside door would remain open all night for that identical route.

 

[MyBelle]

I am so glad you brought up those two words: common sense. It seems to be lost in all these discussions. Where we differ is I think the judge is not only wise and experienced he is loaded with common sense. MOO.

I think the Appeals Court found the Judge's professional judgment to be lacking, not his common sense.

JMO

 

[minor4th]

We can't forget that any information Jason provided in a custody dispute was going to be used by investigators per the murder. As with Brad Cooper, investigators were going to provide questions for which they wanted answers. Investigators wanted the information for the sole purpose of finding grounds to impugn him. For example, when Jason admitted that he used the medicine dropper to give diluted adult medication to the child, everyone from social media to investigators attempted to use that against him ... that is, now he allegedly drugged the child.



I don't understand this view of law and investigative techniques that it is all above board and kind. That is not how it works, especially when investigators have tunnel vision. Police were desperate for some sort of evidence to use against Jason and everyone knew it. Why should Jason walk onto trap doors when everyone could see them from miles away?



Seriously, if this was nothing more than an innocent visitation application, why was everyone so disappointed that Jason walked away from being pushed into a corner. Why should anyone care, or criticize, that he decided that Meredith was a suitable parent for his daughter? That answer seems to be that police didn't get what they wanted ... which means that this was about pinning Jason to a story rather than visitation.

Oh believe me, I do not have a view of all police and prosecutors as above board and ethically or morally superior. Most of them play dirty and play to win - truth and justice are lost in the shuffle.

Who was disappointed that Jason and Meredith settled on terms that are good for everyone, including Cassidy? Not me, not the Fishers, not Jason.

If the police were disappointed they didn't get any info through the civil case, too damn bad. It's not their case, they're not parties and have no standing or any right to control anything in those proceedings. Of course the police want as much information as possible, but I really really doubt anyone was expecting it to come out of the custody case. The settlement that resulted indicated that the Fishers initiated the suit only to do what they considered best for Cassidy.

 

[citygirl]

BBM

Police were always well aware of Jason's alibi. They had hotel receipts from the car. They knew every detail about his alibi, and then they attempted to demonstrate that it was a false alibi. He must have talked with the Fishers as he went to Meredith's house after the crime scene was isolated, and there were arrangements for visitation from the time of the murder until the arrest.

How do you know this? Is this your opinion? I've never seen any documentation of it.

 

[Nymeria]

AFAIK only one has said that there is nothing that could change their opinion that JY is guilty.

For those who are convinced he's innocent, is there anything that would change your mind that he is innocent (short of a video tape of him committing the murder and another video of him yelling at Gracie at 5:30 a.m.)?

Show of hands - whose minds are really still open?

:clap: :goodpost: :clap:

 

[Madeleine74]

JY did not have to pass multiple cameras. He had to pass one -- the same one -- to use the one door he selected. It's all in the testimony, exactly where the cameras were. How ironic the two cameras that could have verified his alibi beyond reproach -- the one by the stairwell door and the one covering the breakfast area, managed to either be tampered with twice on the very night/morning his wife gets murdered, when he put himself within possible striking distance by only going halfway to his appointment, or somehow failed to capture him getting his breakfast.

Momma is not a derogatory term. Neither is mommy or mother.

 

[citygirl]

AND earn their attorney $1 million and LF $250K.

That's all LF received for the death of her daughter? Did she actually receive that money?

 

[Madeleine74]

I believe the testimony is all the money (except for a standard executrix fee) went into trust for CY. That would be minus fees for the attorney and any other fee imposed. No idea the net amount, but I do remember hearing during testimony it's in trust.