JBR, PR and UMI

[WHITEFANG]

Hahaha....really.....those who have known me here for very long know I don't have the temperament for "coy". But I AM very familiar with it as a personality trait in many clients I have worked with professionally over the years. ONELOVE


The temperament for coy? Temperament for coy?

Do you still have office hours?



Okay, kay kay, just tell me, whom should I read?

 

[WHITEFANG]

Hahaha....really.....those who have known me here for very long know I don't have the temperament for "coy". But I AM very familiar with it as a personality trait in many clients I have worked with professionally over the years.

Do you still have office hours?

 

[WHITEFANG]

i've known you long enough

 

[MurriFlower]

Hahaha....really.....those who have known me here for very long know I don't have the temperament for "coy". But I AM very familiar with it as a personality trait in many clients I have worked with professionally over the years.

Do you still have office hours?

Helllloooooo!!

She must be out to lunch!

 

[WHITEFANG]

Helllloooooo!!

She must be out to lunch!

I TAUGHT I TAW A PUDDY TAT. I DID I DID. I was walking through the park one rubber baby buggy bumpers

How ill does one have to be to get an appointment?

 

[WHITEFANG]

OneLove, you may not be licensed to diagnose, but you seem to have incredible insight. The reality is that although I believe Patsy did unintenionally harm JonBenet, I feel incredible pity for her. I always have. With all of our theories and beliefs, what matters most in the long run is that Patsy and JonBenet have now had the opportunity to reconcile (true believers know what I mean). I'm sure not one day went by that Patsy did not pray to the Father for forgiveness. Only He can judge her now. My opinion matters not one whit.

asking for forgiveness without confession and taking responsibility would be worthless. if patsy committed these acts (and she didn't) and she wanted to be forgiven, she would have had to turn herself in to complete the spiritual transaction.

yes god, forgive me for stealing that money. see you later. amen. don't work like that. return the money and surrender to authorities, then we'll talk.

 

[BBB167893]

I am talking about the cancer that eventually claimed Patsy's life. If you think it doesn't cause emotional problems, you have never known anyone with a terminal case.

As opposed to me, who has seen it happen TWICE.

 

[BBB167893]

"We see murders committed everyday by both mothers and fathers whose signs of mental illness were ignored or minimalized by people who thought it could NEVER get bad enough to lead to murder."

She was diagnosed with which one?

That's kind of the point that we're trying to make, Fang: she wasn't diagnosed because she was never treated. Because all too often, those close to the situation are either unaware of the warning signs or in willful denial, chalking it up to mere eccentricities of personality. They don't realize the problem until it's too late. That's what beck is saying and what I'm trying to say. My point is not that she even necessarily had a mental disorder. My point is that if she DID, nobody bothered to do anything about it.

 

[BBB167893]

Did she touch her body?

Hard to say, Fang. She said she did in the book, but her memory is "funny" to say the least, if not less. I mean, her main claim for not being able to remember the events of that day to the cops is because she was in too much shock, but she can remember that? I don't trust it as far as I can throw an aircraft carrier.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

That's kind of the point that we're trying to make, Fang: she wasn't diagnosed because she was never treated. Because all too often, those close to the situation are either unaware of the warning signs or in willful denial, chalking it up to mere eccentricities of personality. They don't realize the problem until it's too late. That's what beck is saying and what I'm trying to say. My point is not that she even necessarily had a mental disorder. My point is that if she DID, nobody bothered to do anything about it.

Dealing with a family member with mental illness is often times akin to dealing with an alcoholic or drug addict. The familial world revolves around that person's wants and needs. It's a bit like being caught up in an eddy. You are so caught up in trying to keep your head above water that you have no time to stop and determine the source of the swirling. You just deal with what's tossed at you from moment to moment. You deal with confusion and hurt and guilt. Are you doing something to make the person act this way? How can YOU fix it? And of course the person with the problem is urging you to have these feelings. And the swirling goes on and on. It's not until you are out of that chaos and have sorted your own feelings that you can truly look back and say, "yes, there was a definite problem there."

Dealing with someone with a mental disorder is not like dealing with someone with a broken arm. You can see the broken arm. You can see how it incapacitates the person, and you have a pretty good idea how to help that person.

 

[joeskidbeck]

As opposed to me, who has seen it happen TWICE.

I know what you mean SD. I'm sorry about the loss of your parents. In my case it was my mil and sil, at the same time. They died within months of each other. To act as though real emotional stress were something to make light of is pathetic, to say the least. Until you have lived it, your opinion is just that: opinion. You have the right to it, but don't expect caring people to respect it. Thanks, SD for caring and having the class to get your point across without tearing other people to shreds.

 

[BBB167893]

OneLove, you may not be licensed to diagnose, but you seem to have incredible insight. The reality is that although I believe Patsy did unintenionally harm JonBenet, I feel incredible pity for her. I always have. With all of our theories and beliefs, what matters most in the long run is that Patsy and JonBenet have now had the opportunity to reconcile (true believers know what I mean).

I do indeed.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Dealing with a family member with mental illness is often times akin to dealing with an alcoholic or drug addict. The familial world revolves around that person's wants and needs. It's a bit like being caught up in an eddy. You are so caught up in trying to keep your head above water that you have no time to stop and determine the source of the swirling. You just deal with what's tossed at you from moment to moment. You deal with confusion and hurt and guilt. Are you doing something to make the person act this way? How can YOU fix it? And of course the person with the problem is urging you to have these feelings. And the swirling goes on and on. It's not until you are out of that chaos and have sorted your own feelings that you can truly look back and say, "yes, there was a definite problem there."

Dealing with someone with a mental disorder is not like dealing with someone with a broken arm. You can see the broken arm. You can see how it incapacitates the person, and you have a pretty good idea how to help that person.

Wow, my tee mouse, there is no doubt in my mind that you have been through this as well. I have never been able to describe the "chaos" that I felt, but you summed it up very well. Thank you.
Becky

 

[BBB167893]

DD I think that's called 'speculation'.

We're all just spitballing, here. But, you never know what might yield insight.

 

[BBB167893]

The whole idea that PR snapped then snapped back again is fanciful to say the least.

Who says she came all the way back?

I think that if she DID suffer from some UMI before JBR's murder, the stress, remorse, anger, sadness of her precious daughter's killing followed by the media circus that followed would have tipped her over the edge.

How do we know it didn't? Just because a person's mind has broken doesn't mean they become like the stereotype of a drooling, laughing maniac. Mental breakdowns manifest themselves in many ways. Not to mention the fact that she seemed pretty heavily medicated for the next ten years.

Whilst we have no evidence of how PR behaved prior the the murder, we have plenty of evidence (including vision) of how she behaved after. It all seemed perfectly normal to me under the circumstances.

?????

 

[BBB167893]

asking for forgiveness without confession and taking responsibility would be worthless. if patsy committed these acts (and she didn't) and she wanted to be forgiven, she would have had to turn herself in to complete the spiritual transaction.

yes god, forgive me me for stealing that money. see you later. amen. don't work like that. return the money and surrender to authorities, then we'll talk.

Unfortunately, Fang, and you know this as well as I do, most people want forgiveness without redemption.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Unfortunately, Fang, and you know this as well as I do, most people want forgiveness without redemption.

Patsy, on one of their tv interviews actually mentions forgiveness. As I recall, she said that she and John had discussed the fact that the person who murdered JB could be forgiven. She may have even made this in the form of a question. I will find this footage and post asap. As for redemption, isn't that what comes after forgiveness? I think the Bible says that in order to be forgiven we must have confession and repentance. That's as far as I will take this post. Any further, to me, would be judging and I ain't gonna go there. :bang:

 

[BBB167893]

Patsy, on one of their tv interviews actually mentions forgiveness. As I recall, she said that she and John had discussed the fact that the person who murdered JB could be forgiven. She may have even made this in the form of a question. I will find this footage and post asap. As for redemption, isn't that what comes after forgiveness? I think the Bible says that in order to be forgiven we must have confession and repentance. That's as far as I will take this post. Any further, to me, would be judging and I ain't gonna go there. :bang:

If memory serves, in one of his interviews, JR was told that forgiveness requires confession, and he denied that.

 

[WHITEFANG]

Hard to say, Fang. She said she did in the book, but her memory is "funny" to say the least, if not less. I mean, her main claim for not being able to remember the events of that day to the cops is because she was in too much shock, but she can remember that? I don't trust it as far as I can throw an aircraft carrier.

It was in a police report.

Jackie Kennedy testified before the Warren Commission that she did not have any recollection whatsoever that she crawled onto the trunk of the presidential limousine when Jack's head was blown off.

I believe that it is disgraceful to mix theories, opinion, speculation and statements of fact together and to discuss Patsy's "undiagnosed mental illness" as a given, and simultaneously claim that no one is saying Patsy suffered from mental illness.

 

[WHITEFANG]

Who says she came all the way back?

"I think that if she DID suffer from some UMI before JBR's murder, the stress, remorse, anger, sadness of her precious daughter's killing followed by the media circus that followed would have tipped her over the edge." Madeline, I believe

How do we know it didn't? SD

Well, that's why I asked how many people did she kill after this tragedy. F

Just because a person's mind has broken doesn't mean they become like the stereotype of a drooling, laughing maniac. SD

Who says it does? F

Mental breakdowns manifest themselves in many ways. Not to mention the fact that she seemed pretty heavily medicated for the next ten years. SD

Not always.
Opinion.
And what if she was medicated? What does that mean? F

Robert Kennedy took medication to be able to sleep after Jack was murdered. F

For those who have had a child murdered in their homes while they slept, please tell us about your experience. F