JBR, PR and UMI

[BBB167893]

Might the University in Boulder be a possible source of a SFF (real or not)?

It would be the first place I'd look. They're just behind Al Qaeda on the Hate America hit parade.

 

[MurriFlower]

It would be the first place I'd look. They're just behind Al Qaeda on the Hate America hit parade.

Sheese!! How dumb am I?? No SFF in that University at all. SD you know everything, thank goodness you're here to guide us.

http://www.colorado.edu/studentgroups/index.html

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Might the University in Boulder be a possible source of a SFF (real or not)?

Only if JBR's exposure in pageants was limited to Boulder, but they weren't.

IOW if someone targeted JBR (which they did) for publicity (which it got), then its probably got more to do with JBR's pageant exposure. Student groups that exist now may not have existed then, and probably didn't know JR from Adam.

"JonBenét was enrolled by her mother in a variety of different beauty pageants in several states. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JonBenét_Ramsey

 

[cynic]

Wecht is pretty good at what he has been doing for 50 years, too.

Just so you are aware, the other people mentioned as experts, do deserve the title, they are not exactly interns.
Dr Werner Spitz “Veteran medical examiner Werner Spitz has seen it all in 47 years on the job” - July 11, 2000
Dr. Kerry Brega, MD (Neurological Surgeon in Aurora, CO Grad year:1989
Dr. Ronald Wright, director of the forensic pathology department at the University of Miami School of Medicine: 26 years of experience as of 2000
Dr. Robert Kirschner “For 17 years I served as a forensic pathologist at the Office of the Medical Examiner, Cook County, Illinois, retiring as Deputy Chief Medical Examiner in April, 1995.”

if i understand him, is that the damage done was so severe it should have bled considerably more than it did.

It is very difficult to predict what will happen with regard to brain trauma.

33-year-old meth user attempted suicide using nail gun, doctors say
An Oregon man who went to a hospital complaining of a headache was found to have 12 nails embedded in his skull from a suicide attempt with a nail gun, doctors say.
The unidentified 33-year-old man was suicidal and high on methamphetamine last year when he fired the nails — up to 2 inches in length — into his head one by one
No one before is known to have survived after intentionally firing so many foreign objects into the head, according to the report, written by Dr. G. Alexander West, the neurosurgeon who oversaw the treatment of the patient.
The nails came close to major blood vessels and the brain stem but did not pierce them.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12425803/

Delayed traumatic extradural hematoma is a new pathological dimension. Thirteen patients with delayed traumatic extradural hematoma were seen 70 treated cases of extradural hematomas for a frequency of 18.6%. The hematomas were insignificant or not present on the initial CT scanning. All patients had a skull fracture at the site of delayed extradural hematoma formation. Ten hematomas were surgically evacuated and three were reabsorbed spontaneously. Repeated CT scanning was performed if the patient has any new focal neurological deficits or clinical status was not improved despite of minimal extradural hematoma after head injury. Delayed extradural hematoma were classified into two groups based on the presence of hematoma in initial CT scan : delayed bleeding type(newly formed xtradural hematoma/4 cases : 5.7%) & delayed expansion type(enlargement of initial thin hematoma/9 cases : 12.6%).
http://www.koreamed.org/SearchBasic.php?RID=605505&DT=1&QY=%22Repeated+CT+scan%22+%5BKW%5D

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

It is very difficult to predict what will happen with regard to brain trauma.

33-year-old meth user attempted suicide using nail gun, doctors say
An Oregon man who went to a hospital complaining of a headache was found to have 12 nails embedded in his skull from a suicide attempt with a nail gun, doctors say.
The unidentified 33-year-old man was suicidal and high on methamphetamine last year when he fired the nails — up to 2 inches in length — into his head one by one
No one before is known to have survived after intentionally firing so many foreign objects into the head, according to the report, written by Dr. G. Alexander West, the neurosurgeon who oversaw the treatment of the patient.
The nails came close to major blood vessels and the brain stem but did not pierce them.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12425803/

Hospital spokeswoman Janet Frank said there was an "accident" in the actor's Utah home that caused an intracranial hemorrhage. She cited the
wishes of Coleman's wife, Shannon Price, 24, and declined to give details.

http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2010/05/30/2010-05-30_coleman_kin_ask_what_killed_gary.html

 

[BBB167893]

Sheese!! How dumb am I?? No SFF in that University at all. SD you know everything, thank goodness you're here to guide us.

http://www.colorado.edu/studentgroups/index.html

I'll let that one pass. Meanwhile, all I'll say is that it helps to remember that Boulder U is the home of people like Ward Churchill.

 

[WHITEFANG]

I agree WF. I mean, one can not move an inch in 15 years while pondering the most remote possibilities! When we consider the most likely scenario as probably correct, then JBR had already been strangled before she was struck in the head, and there was no accident.

This redundancy is common in murders, to prevent the rescue attempt.

How much weight do you give to Wecht's critics? Why?

 

[MurriFlower]

Only if JBR's exposure in pageants was limited to Boulder, but they weren't.

IOW if someone targeted JBR (which they did) for publicity (which it got), then its probably got more to do with JBR's pageant exposure. Student groups that exist now may not have existed then, and probably didn't know JR from Adam.

"JonBenét was enrolled by her mother in a variety of different beauty pageants in several states. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JonBenét_Ramsey

I expect that the pagents may have been a reason for her to get publicity in her home town, just as JR recently received publicity for the AG $1B sales. I think there would have been foreign students then, perhaps not the number of 'social groups' on campus as there is now. The student accommodation is just a couple of miles from the R's home. Remember, someone also saw a person resembling JAR in the vicinity, so might have been any young, white man.

 

[DeeDee249]

I expect that the pagents may have been a reason for her to get publicity in her home town, just as JR recently received publicity for the AG $1B sales. I think there would have been foreign students then, perhaps not the number of 'social groups' on campus as there is now. The student accommodation is just a couple of miles from the R's home. Remember, someone also saw a person resembling JAR in the vicinity, so might have been any young, white man.

More than in the "vicinity". Neighbor (the late) Joe Barnhill, who knew JAR since the Rs moved in across the street from him, claimed to have seen him walking up the walk to the R house at a time when JAR was supposed to be in Georgia.

 

[MurriFlower]

More than in the "vicinity". Neighbor (the late) Joe Barnhill, who knew JAR since the Rs moved in across the street from him, claimed to have seen him walking up the walk to the R house at a time when JAR was supposed to be in Georgia.

Perhaps, but he more likely saw someone of a similar build,colouring etc, and just assumed it was JAR.

Hmm, just thinking. As JAR was JR's son by his previous marriage, he wouldn't have lived with the R's full time anyway would he? Did he go to University in Boulder? Did he live on campus or with the R's during term? I've never thought of this angle before, I just assumed JAR lived with his mother.

 

[WHITEFANG]

That explains a lot.



Roger.



Majority of what?

Americans

 

[DeeDee249]

Perhaps, but he more likely saw someone of a similar build,colouring etc, and just assumed it was JAR.

Hmm, just thinking. As JAR was JR's son by his previous marriage, he wouldn't have lived with the R's full time anyway would he? Did he go to University in Boulder? Did he live on campus or with the R's during term? I've never thought of this angle before, I just assumed JAR lived with his mother.

JAR "lived" with his mother in Georgia. But he did go to the University right there in Boulder, very close to his father's house. He spent a great deal of time in Boulder, and it seems he went to Georgia for brief periods. If he wasn't on campus, he was often at the R house. So though he wasn't supposed to live there "full-time" at the R house, he lived in Boulder pretty much full time, either on campus or at the R house. He did have a dorm room, though. I'd definitely put him on the list of people who had regular access to JB.

 

[MurriFlower]

JAR "lived" with his mother in Georgia. But he did go to the University right there in Boulder, very close to his father's house. He spent a great deal of time in Boulder, and it seems he went to Georgia for brief periods. If he wasn't on campus, he was often at the R house. So though he wasn't supposed to live there "full-time" at the R house, he lived in Boulder pretty much full time, either on campus or at the R house. He did have a dorm room, though. I'd definitely put him on the list of people who had regular access to JB.

Yes, and I suppose he brought people from University and other local friends home with him at times. Probably even female company. Might have had parties when the family was away.

I guess this is a question for IDI to consider. I did think when I first read the RN that it said 'your daughter' quite a bit and also the 'Mr and Mrs' note was discarded for the Mr R, as if the 'target' might have originally been Melinda. I wonder if it's a possibility that they expected MR to have been home for Christmas and when she wasn't there, they took JBR instead? The angle I'm thinking here might have something to do with JAR and 'someone else's sister'? Retaliation perhaps?

 

[WHITEFANG]

I guess this is a question for IDI to consider. I did think when I first read the RN that it said 'your daughter' quite a bit and also the 'Mr and Mrs' note was discarded for the Mr R, as if the 'target' might have originally been Melinda. I wonder if it's a possibility that they expected MR to have been home for Christmas and when she wasn't there, they took JBR instead? The angle I'm thinking here might have something to do with JAR and 'someone else's sister'? Retaliation perhaps?

Might motivate someone to get the hell out of the area as soon as humanly possible.

 

[BBB167893]

Americans

Okay. "Do the majority of Americans believe they did it?"

That's possible. I really don't know. I know they did once, but there haven't been too many polls on this case lately. It just doesn't spark people's interest like it used to. Most have moved on.

Sorry, Fang, but that's the only true answer I can give you.

 

[DeeDee249]

Yes, and I suppose he brought people from University and other local friends home with him at times. Probably even female company. Might have had parties when the family was away.

Yes, that is very possible.

I guess this is a question for IDI to consider. I did think when I first read the RN that it said 'your daughter' quite a bit and also the 'Mr and Mrs' note was discarded for the Mr R, as if the 'target' might have originally been Melinda. I wonder if it's a possibility that they expected MR to have been home for Christmas and when she wasn't there, they took JBR instead? The angle I'm thinking here might have something to do with JAR and 'someone else's sister'? Retaliation perhaps?

Can't see this angle at all. Melinda was older than JAR and engaged to be married at the time. She had never lived in Boulder. And I can't understand what you mean by "someone else's sister" and retaliation against JAR. JB was his sister, too, though a half-sister. Do you mean you think it was JAR they were trying to hurt? Because the note seems to clearly indicate his father.

 

[MurriFlower]

Can't see this angle at all. Melinda was older than JAR and engaged to be married at the time. She had never lived in Boulder. And I can't understand what you mean by "someone else's sister" and retaliation against JAR. JB was his sister, too, though a half-sister. Do you mean you think it was JAR they were trying to hurt? Because the note seems to clearly indicate his father.

Ok, well, I can see that I have to spell these things out. I'm wondering if JAR had some 'involvement' with a girl and one of her family members was seeking 'an eye for an eye' (and got carried away).

Let me explain why. I'm thinking here of a murder that I'm aware of, where a person was shot dead by another. The motive was apparently racial. The shooter went to jail for quite a long time for manslaughter. However, the story never told went like this. The shooter's older brother was a small time drug dealer. He fell foul of a few other fellows who called to see him one night (to settle some business) when he wasn't home. High on drugs, they found his youngest (13-14yo) brother home alone, and proceeded to rape and torture him (cigarette burns) for several hours. This crime was never reported. The killing by the 'middle' brother was actually retrabution for what they (the dead one being the leader) had done, however, to admit to this (eventhough most of us would say it was probably deserved or at least understandable) was to admit to premeditated murder. As it happened the shooter was convicted of a lesser charge due to no motive for murder being presented in evidence as he claimed he just wanted to 'scare' the group. The shooter wasn't going to tell the real story, nor were the associates of the man killed.

If JAR was involved in some illegal or shameful activity, he is hardly going to confess, especially if it was what lead to JBR's death. I think that many people believe the killing not to have been deliberate and I do think this is quite possible. BUT try as I might, I have so far not been able to imagine a scenario that led to her being bashed and garrotted in this fashion and especially the RN. There are just so many variables that make no sense at present.

Someone may have thought the older sister would be there at Christmas and if JAR had been involved in something that required a score settled, perhaps they targeted her, but in her absence JBR was substituted. The reason I wondered if MR had been the target was she was 'equivalent' to a sister of JAR's age (whereas JBR was a baby) and the use of the 'Mr Ramsey' as well as 'your daughter' in the RN, when JBR was clearly the daughter of Mr and Mrs R. The reason I thought of University students was the RN and it's contents sounds rather like a sick prank.

 

[DeeDee249]

Sounds preposterous in this case. Sneak in on Christmas night with the entire family home, feed JB pineapple, strangle and bash her head, and sexually assault her all with risk of discovery at any time.
Then why write the 3-page note (remarkably similar handwriting to the mother- was that planned, too?)

Yours case involved thugs coming into a home for revenge and not expecting to find the young boy. You did not mention a RN or kidnapping. Your case involved drugs.
In this case, anyone would know that the entire family would be at home, EXCEPT possibly JAR (the target).
JAR was a student at the college right there. He wouldn't be hard to find by someone looking for him. There would be no need to break into a house where his entire family was home. Seems a bit much to revenge an angry ex-girlfriend.

 

[MurriFlower]

DeeDee249;5275286]Sounds preposterous in this case.

Hardly more preposterous than the RDI case.

Sneak in on Christmas night with the entire family home

Sneak into the home after the family went out.

feed JB pineapple

in order to hide the drug GHB that makes girls 'horny' and compliant.

sexually assault her

see GHB above.

Then why write the 3-page note

Prank? High on drugs? Subliminal meaning for JAR?

(remarkably similar handwriting to the mother- was that planned, too?)

Or, perhaps nothing like her writing at all. Experts couldn't agree. It certainly looks nothing like it to me.

Yours case involved thugs coming into a home for revenge and not expecting to find the young boy. Your case involved drugs.

You are assuming that someone who head bashed, garrotted and sexually assaulted a 6yo girl is not a ? You are also assuming there were no drugs involved.

In this case, anyone would know that the entire family would be at home, EXCEPT possibly JAR (the target).

I did not suggest that JAR was the target, I was suggesting that it MAY have been MR. JAR was the REASON or at least something that he was involved in may have been the reason.

Seems a bit much to revenge an angry ex-girlfriend.

Not to revenge an angry girlfriend, but as revenge for something that was 'done' to her (for example 'gang raped').

strangle and bash her head

Yep, I can't quite work out why this happened either , regardless of who did it!

 

[DeeDee249]

No drugs of any kind were found in JB. Not to mention how the intruder would get her to eat it.
Responding to the rest is pointless.