JB's picture in the laundry room

[Userid]

^ Yes. I never thought the R's were smart enough to invite people over for the sole purpose to contaminate the crime scene. In my view, they invited people over to distract police, or to separate themselves from police. They knew the police were on their way, and that scared the s... out of them.

 

[UKGuy]

Its possible JOhn already knew about her murder at that point. Having said that, I don't think he was sitting there assisting her with its writing. He likely had bigger fish to fry during that time. Once he read it, he would not have been happy. Mr. CEO man is certainly smart enough to see what she is doing to him in this note. She is blaming him and laying all the responibility for the nightmare on him. Its passive agressive, lets the control freak know he's not in control now, and is also another layer of domestic violence. Someone has to be blamed. Its not surprising he was cold and distant towards her all day while the house was filled with people. A lot of people think they invited friends over just to contaminate the crime scene. Possible but I think its just as likely she invited them over to save her own from getting pummeled by John in the aftermath of the nightmare that transpired in that house of horrors.

THis note is not some united front and a pact written in blood. Its a power play by one spouse to another and like Corolarro said, Patsy is serving up her revenge stone cold.....in the form of her daughter's corpse downstairs and the coldness of the note itself. Burke practically doesn't even exist in their world during this timeframe. He's not even worthy of an afterthought.

THis isn't a loving couple protecting their son and putting on a united front to do just that. These are two people who were on the verge of tearing each other limb from limb and I'm not the least bit surprised Burke admitted to pretending he was asleep upstairs. This is what children who live with domestic violence do. They stay in bed or hide under the bed until it goes away and the next day starts fresh....only to have to continually repeat this process again and again.

singularity,
If at this distance in time you can read Patsy and John's mind via the Ransom Note, why does Patsy not think that the police might do the same?

Given they might do this, what is the purpose of the Ransom Note if it is really a surrogate narrative of complaint ?

.

 

[Miz Adventure]

Wow! We have some real psychology going on here. I'm impressed.

Patsy wrote the note, I think we all agree on that. John probably wanted the 'kidnapper/murderer' to sound deranged so he let his mad missus get on with the job.

D'you know....when I think of the shock, mayhem and panic that must have gone on in their home that night, I almost feel sorry for them. We've probably all tried to put ourselves in PR's place (a very difficult thing to do) - how much she loved JBR and now she finds her - murdered, - her own son having her killed her in the most horrendous way. (If indeed that is what happened).

There couldn't have been much time to grieve for their beloved daughter - they had to get busy covering up the crime scene to make it look as though an intruder had come in.

In these circumstances I have to admire the fact that they DID in fact manage to do so much in such a short time, because time would have flown as they talked about what they should do. The RN itself would have taken half an hour, at least.

What I find unforgiveable is how they accused everyone and anyone, even their closest friends. They made the people of Boulder feel unsafe by going on TV and telling them a child killer was on the loose - "Keep your babies close to you".

 

[icedtea4me]

As a part of my theory, the mocking tone of the RN (toward JR) is a pretty clear indicator of PR's deep resentment toward him, especially because of the the then-recent birthday bash put together for PR 1996 where she was "roasted" pretty heavily according to some who attended. Deeply hurt. Paybacks are hell. That is how some people handle things. I think PR was one of those people - she enjoyed her sweet revenge.

[FONT=&quot]One final note ... thank you to all my 'friends' and my dear husband for surprising me with the biggest, most outrageous 40th birthday bash I've ever had!

[/FONT]http://www.acandyrose.com/1996christmasnewsletter.htm

birthday = Christmas (celebrating birth of Jesus)
bash= what happened to JonBenet's head

 

[AB1]

As a part of my theory, the mocking tone of the RN (toward JR) is a pretty clear indicator of PR's deep resentment toward him, especially because of the the then-recent birthday bash put together for PR 1996 where she was "roasted" pretty heavily according to some who attended. Deeply hurt. Paybacks are hell. That is how some people handle things. I think PR was one of those people - she enjoyed her sweet revenge.

Hi CorallaroC,
I recalling reading about PR strutting around and smoking a cigar, but perhaps that was a different birthday/event? Please could you point me to who mentioned her being "roasted"?

 

[AB1]

Wow! We have some real psychology going on here. I'm impressed.

Patsy wrote the note, I think we all agree on that. John probably wanted the 'kidnapper/murderer' to sound deranged so he let his mad missus get on with the job.

D'you know....when I think of the shock, mayhem and panic that must have gone on in their home that night, I almost feel sorry for them. We've probably all tried to put ourselves in PR's place (a very difficult thing to do) - how much she loved JBR and now she finds her - murdered, - her own son having her killed her in the most horrendous way. (If indeed that is what happened).

There couldn't have been much time to grieve for their beloved daughter - they had to get busy covering up the crime scene to make it look as though an intruder had come in.

In these circumstances I have to admire the fact that they DID in fact manage to do so much in such a short time, because time would have flown as they talked about what they should do. The RN itself would have taken half an hour, at least.

What I find unforgiveable is how they accused everyone and anyone, even their closest friends. They made the people of Boulder feel unsafe by going on TV and telling them a child killer was on the loose - "Keep your babies close to you".

BBM
Snap! Exactly how I was picturing it.

 

[icedtea4me]

Hi CorallaroC,
I recalling reading about PR strutting around and smoking a cigar, but perhaps that was a different birthday/event? Please could you point me to who mentioned her being "roasted"?

I'm doing my best to remember the source, but here's what I recall about Patsy's surprise party:

- It was on a Saturday night in November.
- It was held at the Hotel Boulderado.
- A bus had been used to transport guests.
- A band called The Four-Nicators (sp?) performed.
- There was a drag queen who looked like Patsy.
- Patsy strutted around smoking a cigar.
- Burke and JonBenet stayed at home with a babysitter (Suzanne?).

 

[singularity]

^ Yes. I never thought the R's were smart enough to invite people over for the sole purpose to contaminate the crime scene. In my view, they invited people over to distract police, or to separate themselves from police. They knew the police were on their way, and that scared the s... out of them.

Yeah and the cherry on top is they were the ones who decided on the timing of the arrival of police.

I've always found the moment of arrival to be interesting as well and it gives us a peak of the dynamic between the two that night/morning. Patsy is at the door greeting them while John is back in the distance. It shows who is "wearing the pants" in the family that morning.

It wasn't John.


UK....

If at this distance in time you can read Patsy and John's mind via the Ransom Note...

Sarcasm noted.

why does Patsy not think that the police might do the same?

Good question. Patsy and John deserve to be in the Guiness Book of World Records for having the most amount of luck on their side.

What makes that an even better question is the risk they took by staging it as a kidnapping. They had to know this instantly brings the FBI into the equation and if anyone is going to see through this facade wrapped in a paradox, its the feds. They have no idea at that point the case will be bungled to such a degree and the feds sent home so quickly.

Given they might do this, what is the purpose of the Ransom Note if it is really a surrogate narrative of complaint ?

Another great question. Making the note so personal in light of what happened in that house is mindblowing and IMO a risk not worth taking. Having said that, emotions were likely in overdrive and as she's venting on paper, it simply flows through without much thought in any attempt at grand deception. Tossing in pop culture catchphrases and other assorted movie lines does not override the personal nature of the note. Maybe in her state of mind that night/morning it did.

She got lucky though....it worked. That note will be analyzed for centuries.

Your question could also be asked about the general existence of the note itself. What's its real purpose? A ransom note attempting to ransom a body that is one floor beneath the note is obviously not a ransom note even if it appears to be at face value.

Like I said earlier, if you strip away the kidnapping references and movie lines, what do you have staring you in the face?

A wife putting pen to paper spewing venom at her husband. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Miz Adventure]

I think the main reason they got away with murder was the fact they were rich and influential. They had friends in high places and money talks. There's one law for the rich and one for the poor. I'm 100% certain the LW and the other lawyers, plus the DA knew exactly what happened that night.

Another thing that worked in their favour - the Boulder police were not used to dealing with kidnappings and murders. From the very outset they bungled the investigation - and that is another point that worked well in the R's favour. The R's complained that the police were useless.... but hey! if they had been efficient and handled things properly then the couple would be have been behind bars.

I absolutely believe the couple knew exactly what they were doing when they invited their friends over to contaminate the scene. The R's were not meant to be stupid people yet they sat by and watched their friends wipe down surfaces and toast bagels. Then there was John picking up his daughter (when he could see she was beyond help) and carrying her upstairs. I can't help think that he probably would have left her in situ and called Linda Arndt to come down to the basement.

 

[Miz Adventure]

Regarding the birthday bash - I'm going from memory now - I think Steve Thomas mentioned something about it in his book. It cost tens of thousands of dollars and John wasn't happy about that.

And I think it was Nedra who told ST that Patsy hired a (female) clown to dress like a parody of the girl who had won the Miss America contest.

That's what you call a sore loser.

 

[UKGuy]

singularity,

A wife putting pen to paper spewing venom at her husband. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sounds like the case is really JDI with Patsy covering for BR's sake?


.

 

[kanzz]

Regarding the birthday bash - I'm going from memory now - I think Steve Thomas mentioned something about it in his book. It cost tens of thousands of dollars and John wasn't happy about that.

And I think it was Nedra who told ST that Patsy hired a (female) clown to dress like a parody of the girl who had won the Miss America contest.

That's what you call a sore loser.

I was searching for info about Patsy coloring her hair and came across this:

acandyrose

PMPT Page 249sb

Portion of Judith Phillips Letter:

“Early last November there was a surprise birthday party for Patsy. Her birthday is in late December, but the family was going to be back east, so the party was in November. Priscilla White organized the entire thing. John told her "Wherever you want it to be--the sky's the limit."

We all met at the Safeway Shopping Center and were loaded into a large bus-all kinds of people. Nedra, Don, john, Patsy's sisters, the Whites, Walkers, Stines, Fernies, Reverend Rol Hoverstock, and Patsy's entire softball team. Then the bus drove to their home and parked while John went up to the door. Patsy was flabbergasted.

PMPT Page 250sb

"Should I change?" were her first words.

"No, no, come along right now," he told her.

Lots of laughing. Patsy didn't have a clue where we were going. Patsy and John sat in the back. There was an open bar.

At the Brown Palace in Denver we had a private room. Fifty people. A band called the 4-Nikators. Sit-down dinner, open bar, huge bottles of Dom Perigon, and even cigars on the tables for everyone. Patsy was striding around big as life, puffing on a cigar like she owned the place.

The MC was a guy in drag-tiara, fluffy fur around his Collar. Talked in a southern accent and did a monologue on Patsy-the Patsy Paugh Experience, from birth to the present. The family must have coached him. Lots of in-jokes and innuendo that I didn't understand. Then at midnight we were back on the bus. Patsy opened her presents on the way back. Everyone else was dropped off along the way, and Patsy and John were left alone on the bus.

That was probably the last time I saw JonBenet alive. Early that evening, before we left Patsy and John's home, both kids got on the bus to say hello to their grandparents and their aunts and uncles.

-Judith Phillips”

 

[DeDee]

I'm doing my best to remember the source, but here's what I recall about Patsy's surprise party:

- It was on a Saturday night in November.
- It was held at the Hotel Boulderado.
- A bus had been used to transport guests.
- A band called The Four-Nicators (sp?) performed.
- There was a drag queen who looked like Patsy.
- Patsy strutted around smoking a cigar.
- Burke and JonBenet stayed at home with a babysitter (Suzanne?).

To the bullet points, shall we add that it was PW who was responsible for the planning of the surprise party for PR?

 

[singularity]

The R's were not meant to be stupid people yet they sat by and watched their friends wipe down surfaces and toast bagels.

If memory serves me correctly, it was mainly the victims advocates guilty of doing this. Besides, I doubt Patsy gave a rat's rump what anybody was doing. She's had her Scooby snacks and was contained to a small area of the house for most of the day. John was too busy doing his own spring cleaning.

Then there was John picking up his daughter (when he could see she was beyond help) and carrying her upstairs. I can't help think that he probably would have left her in situ and called Linda Arndt to come down to the basement.

It would be difficult to blame any parent for doing this although technically it was wrong to do it. I would've picked her up as well and been crying uncontrollably although the main difference between me and JOhn is I wouldn't have been holding her like she had the bubonic plague.



UK....

Sounds like the case is really JDI with Patsy covering for BR's sake?

Not necessarily....although a case could be made for it(and some people have of course). Over the past 20 years, most JDI theories seem to have John doing just about everything with Patsy in the dark on key events.

For the sake of this particular discussion, lets say its PDI and it played out similar to SuperDave's theory. For any noobs here or people lurking, Dave's scenario involves Jonbenet telling Patsy something about the abuse and this causes Patsy to fly into a rage and attacking Jonbenet.

In this type of scenario or even a domestic dispute gone out of control, even if Patsy is the one who attacked Jonbenet, she certainly has plenty of reasons to blame John even if he himself didn't lay a hand on her. If something happened between John and Patsy Christmas morning causing them to drop their standard Christmas events(filming, photos, lunch, etc.), there is immediate tension between the two as the day starts off. John leaving for hours for the airport could be considered a "cooling off" period in the dispute. How is Patsy handling this period? What about Burke and Jonbenet? We know very little of this specific timeframe and I doubt its because they all have amnesia. Later on when the family unit is intact, it's to go to the Whites party.....a tradition that they were unlikely to back out of.

Within minutes to a couple hours after leaving that party, all hell breaks loose.

In the Christmas photo of Patsy we have seen, she does not look happy to say the least. I wish we could see at least one of the photos taken at the Whites party to see if there was any improvement in her mood. Its possisble that she was happy and something set her off either at the party, the ride home, or after they made it home.


Whether its BDI, PDI, or whomever, if the purpose of the note is to cover for Burke's sake, why all the hostility?


I wish we knew more about Burke. He revealed a few things in his interview but he's the enigma in this group. He lacks the track record of John and Patsy. Do we take his statements at face value or is there an agenda behind the statements. If Patsy did indeed go "psycho", why is she putting on a show for Burke concerning Jonbenet? If he heard that, what else did he hear? How about his comment placing the flashlight in John's hands? Where's he going with that? His admittance of going downstairs is interesting and while I certainly don't consider it a smoking gun like some BDI members do, I'd certainly like to know how long he was down there, what was he doing and more importantly, what did he witness. He didn't even specify what time he went back down there unfortunately.

I'm in the group that doesn't believe anyone in that house was asleep when the poop hit the fan and while I certainly believe him when he says he went downstairs, I'm not sold on this being the perfect American apple pie family where everyone is in bed with sugar plums dancing in their heads while the innocent boy climbs out of bed when everyone else is asleep to play with one of his toys and then after he goes back to bed, the gates of hell open out of the blue and a six year old girl loses her life.

In the least, Patsy is awake on the 2nd or 3rd floor as she's not even finished packing.

 

[kanzz]

If memory serves me correctly, it was mainly the victims advocates guilty of doing this. Besides, I doubt Patsy gave a rat's rump what anybody was doing. She's had her Scooby snacks and was contained to a small area of the house for most of the day. John was too busy doing his own spring cleaning.

It would be difficult to blame any parent for doing this although technically it was wrong to do it. I would've picked her up as well and been crying uncontrollably although the main difference between me and JOhn is I wouldn't have been holding her like she had the bubonic plague.

<<respectfully snipped>>

Right, I remember that it was the VAs. Why on earth LEOs allowed that is beyond me! (Scooby snacks - LOL!)

By the time she was found, IIRC, JBR was in full rigor... so, stiff as a board. I suppose he could have carried her long-ways under his arm, but at 45#, it would have been a little difficult. So it probably required that he center her her body over his while climbing the stairs. I'm just thinking about the body mechanics. 48" and 45# would be fairly unweildy.

Yes, he should have left her right where she was. I can't imagine why he didn't. Maybe he didn't know what happened during the night. Until today, I thought I might be the only one who considered that possibility. Then I read that LHP page. Althought I don't agree with her kill theory, I was surprised that I agreed with the last paragraph.

But, I will say that none of us knows what we would do in any given situation. Even if you had been in the exact same situation once, you don't know what you'd do the next time.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

About John carrying the body upstairs instead of leaving it alone, I agree that no one knows what they'd do when confronted with that situation. I'm not even a parent. I can't imagine.

What makes me think there's some bs about this situation, whether he always knew she was in the basement or discovered it during his missing period from 10-ish to 12-ish, was the way he carried her. Up and away from his body like a plank of wood as Linda Arndt described it. Not cradled against himself. But away with her head above his so he didn't have to make eye contact.

Indulge me for a second. All my life when I watched tv and someone cradled their dead loved one, I was slightly repulsed. That's a corpse! It's just gross and unsettling! But when my mom died, I didn't feel that. I watched her die in that hospital room and she was not a dead body to me, she was my mother. Intellectually I knew she was dead because the machine was beeping but emotionally I didn't believe it and I needed to be near her.

By LA's account, JB was in rigor, blue, cold, and smelling of death - a state very different from when I last saw my mother. I can't even IMAGINE finding a loved one in that state, but I expect I would be more repulsed than I was embracing my mother on her deathbed. Yet JR claimed he didn't realize she was dead and thought she needed medical attention, so he took her upstairs. If that's the case, why did he hold her away from him like she was contaminated? If he truly thought her stiff body was possibly alive and didn't notice the abundant signs she was deceased, why didn't he want to hold her close? Why couldn't he look her in the eye?

To me, it just seems like he knows exactly what was going on with her and the idea of cradling his very dead daughter in his arms was distressing as I'm sure it would be to me as well.

 

[kanzz]

About John carrying the body upstairs instead of leaving it alone, I agree that no one knows what they'd do when confronted with that situation. I'm not even a parent. I can't imagine.

What makes me think there's some bs about this situation, whether he always knew she was in the basement or discovered it during his missing period from 10-ish to 12-ish, was the way he carried her. Up and away from his body like a plank of wood as Linda Arndt described it. Not cradled against himself. But away with her head above his so he didn't have to make eye contact.

Indulge me for a second. All my life when I watched tv and someone cradled their dead loved one, I was slightly repulsed. That's a corpse! It's just gross and unsettling! But when my mom died, I didn't feel that. I watched her die in that hospital room and she was not a dead body to me, she was my mother. Intellectually I knew she was dead because the machine was beeping but emotionally I didn't believe it and I needed to be near her.

By LA's account, JB was in rigor, blue, cold, and smelling of death - a state very different from when I last saw my mother. I can't even IMAGINE finding a loved one in that state, but I expect I would be more repulsed than I was embracing my mother on her deathbed. Yet JR claimed he didn't realize she was dead and thought she needed medical attention, so he took her upstairs. If that's the case, why did he hold her away from him like she was contaminated? If he truly thought her stiff body was possibly alive and didn't notice the abundant signs she was deceased, why didn't he want to hold her close? Why couldn't he look her in the eye?

To me, it just seems like he knows exactly what was going on with her and the idea of cradling his very dead daughter in his arms was distressing as I'm sure it would be to me as well.

Well, I sure don't want to defend him.. but I've seen a lot of people have a lot of different reactions when they first see someone dead. Most often, it's denial - just like the textbooks say.

She was a 45 pound, 5 ft (by the time you factor in her arms over her head) plank. It would be very difficult to hold it close while going up the stairs and watching your step as you go. And he would have had to lift it up to keep from tripping on the step ahead. Reacting and probably not thinking.

Also, the odors probably only started to emit after the tape was removed from the mouth, but especially after the corpse was moved. Again, I'm not defending him.

 

[Miz Adventure]

Yet JR claimed he didn't realize she was dead and thought she needed medical attention, so he took her upstairs. .

Yes, that seems strange.

JR: "She was blue and stiff and I was so afraid that she was gone"

Pretending that he thought JBR was still alive may have been his way of justifying why he picked her up and carried her upstairs.

The couple knew they had to contaminate the crime scene (and a body is considered to be a crime scene) and leave fibres etc. on the body. Patsy did so when she threw herself on top of JBR.

I reckon they knew what they were doing.

 

[Meara]

Not to ignore the Ramsey psychodynamics but, as detectives know, people often stage murder scenes not simply to point away from themselves but to make their guilt seem preposterous. 'There's no way the father (mother, sibling, relative, close friend) did that,' or 'If she was smart enough to hide this or that, why would she leave this other thing that puts her right in the frame?'

I think PR and JR covered both ends of the spectrum. Any staged injuries to JBR were meant to seem too shocking for any family member to have inflicted them. When the ransom note mocks JR, it inevitably raises the question of why either parent would be so clumsily obvious. At both extremes -- too awful, too dumb -- the staged elements succeeded in straining credibility and hamstringing a unified theory of the crime. I mean, look at us, 20 years on, still trying to connect all the pieces. That kind of success rarely comes by chance.

So again, not discounting possible subtexts (heh : ) I think the end of the ransom note and a number of other things were "duh" staging. I've wondered whether the Rams were capable of that much misleading detail under the circumstances, then realized I was trying again to understand them by thinking like a normal person - not the best method. Yes, I think the Rams were capable of that kind of spontaneous misleading detail, for two reasons.

In DOI, JR tells of how he began dating Patsy before breaking things off with the soon to be former girlfriend. The two women ended up walking towards John's apartment, Patsy with two soon to be used wine glasses in hand. Patsy avoided an altercation by saying (as John cowered behind the door) that she was a neighbor and was returning the glasses she'd borrowed. John was in awe of Patsy's ability to lie quickly, easily and well. In one way it's a funny story, but given JBR's horrendous injuries and murder, and the fact that the girlfriend Patsy headed off was the same one John had been cheating on his wife with for a year, we have to cross out "light-hearted anecdote" and say what was really going on; namely, that John and Patsy were bonding over shared values of pretense, avoiding blame, skillful lying, and pleasure in deceiving people they disliked or found inferior (This clannishness is to some degree rooted in Southern culture, but with the Rams there is some individual pathology too.)

The second reason I think the Rams were capable of many spontaneous staging details, verbal and visual, is that people whose egos are disordered in the way theirs were/are have a relationship with lying very different from other people's. Think for a moment about someone who sings well. This person has been a member of choirs and vocal groups off and on for years, and so on any singing occasion - around a bonfire on the beach, at holidays, just listening to music - this person can improvise harmonies, virtuality without thinking about it. Threading through the melody and chord structure is second nature. People like the Rams have the same sort of relationship with lying and deceiving. They've been doing it for years, they do it a little all the time; they blend in well. It's instinctive, second nature, no analytic thought required.

As to the pictures in the basement, although the police sound like they're recording the demo tape for How Not To Conduct An Interview, Patsy is marvelously unhelpful.

 

[Cranberry]

Excellent Meara. I noted that JR said PR was 'smooth as a cucumber' in that exchange, thinking it strange he didn't say 'cool as a cucumber'. Such a subtle difference and you nailed it exactly.