Jian Ghomeshi, well known, well respected radio host fired for Sexual Assault

[otto]

Lucy's non-disclosure undermines the credibility of all witnesses, and the prosecution's case.

 

[dotr]

Henein also presented a letter DeCoutere had handwritten to Ghomeshi after she returned to Halifax from Toronto, dated five days after the alleged assault.

In the letter, DeCoutere recounts the evening she had with Ghomeshi, saying how they hooked up for dinner and "you totally knocked me out."

She apologized if she sent Ghomeshi mixed messages, adding that "I loved spending time with you this weekend."

"Jian you're great and I want to know more, have more fun, easy times with you because it so very rare, right?

"I am sad we didn't spend the night together," DeCoutere wrote.

Henein made DeCoutere read the last line of the letter.

"I love your hands," DeCoutere said.

DeCoutere said she couldn't remember sending the email about wanting to have sex with Ghomeshi, but that it didn't change the fact that he assaulted her.

"Women can be assaulted by someone and still have positive feelings for them afterward," she said. "That's why there are emotionally abusive relationships that continue."

rbbm

http://www.cbc.ca/news/jian-ghomeshi-sexual-assault-trial-1.3434801

 

[otto]

rbbm

http://www.cbc.ca/news/jian-ghomeshi-sexual-assault-trial-1.3434801

I don't agree with applying domestic violence circumstances to what happened here. Lucy and Ghomeshi were not in a relationship. She went on a date with him and she claims that he assaulted her. Rather than report the assault to anyone, she immediately thereafter pursued a sexual relationship with him. At this time, there is doubt as to whether she truly objected to his behaviour during their date. I think that most people would steer clear of someone who was violent and aggressive during a date, but Lucy did the opposite. Domestic violence is something entirely different - where women are invested in a relationship as the violence escalates (honeymoon/violence cycle). The aggressor's honeymoon phase draws the victim back into the relationship, but in Lucy's case, as the alleged victim, she is the aggressor in pursuing a relationship. She looks more like a woman who was rejected, and who still wants attention, than a victim of a violent assault.

 

[bluesneakers]

rbbm

http://www.cbc.ca/news/jian-ghomeshi-sexual-assault-trial-1.3434801

"Women can be assaulted by someone and still have positive feelings for them afterward," she said. "That's why there are emotionally abusive relationships that continue."

For some reason this is hard for most people to understand. It's like women who stay in abusive relationships. From the outside it appears to make no sense and lots of people are quick to judge, and have little or no compassion.

 

[otto]

The first alleged victim sent him a photo of herself in a bikini after the alleged assault. That makes two witnesses who actively sought to seduce Ghomeshi after they claim they objected to his behaviour during dates. Is Ghomeshi supposed to be a mind reader, where women throw themselves at him after he allegedly harmed them, and he should know that they actually felt injured by his actions? There is no doubt that they were communicating to him that they wanted more contact with him, so how can they claim today that they didn't want more contact with him?

 

[Montjoy]

So, what's your point, Otto? Are you saying that what Ghomeshi did was justified because of what you seem to be suggesting are mixed messages?

 

[otto]

"Women can be assaulted by someone and still have positive feelings for them afterward," she said. "That's why there are emotionally abusive relationships that continue."

For some reason this is hard for most people to understand. It's like women who stay in abusive relationships. From the outside it appears to make no sense and lots of people are quick to judge, and have little or no compassion.

This is not a case of domestic violence. In cases of domestic violence, women are drawn back into an abusive relationship because they are invested in the relationship, and because the abuser transitions to the honeymoon phase. Ghomeshi did not transition to the honeymoon phase. One date does not make Lucy invested in a relationship with Ghomeshi. Women who are date raped or assaulted do not typically claim that after the assault they were uncontrollably drawn to the rapist, or that they wanted a sexual relationship with their rapist. Lucy is claiming that she was choked and hit violently in the head, that she objected to this but did not report the assault, and then the following day she did everything possible to pursue an intimate relationship with the violent man. Women have a responsibility to clearly communicate - there is no free ride by pretending that this is a case of domestic violence, or that she was playing mind games with her assaulter. Ghomeshi had every reason to believe that she was okay with his behaviour given her conduct after the alleged assault.

 

[otto]

So, what's your point, Otto? Are you saying that what Ghomeshi did was justified because of what you seem to be suggesting are mixed messages?

I'm saying that if Lucy objected to Ghomeshi's actions, she had a responsibility to report the assault, and to clearly communicate to him that she objected to his actions. She did neither. She did the opposite. She pursued a sexual relationship with him after his actions, and he was not interested.

 

[RandomName479]

http://news.nationalpost.com/toronto/jian-ghomeshi-trial-day-4

don't think this one has been posted......don't know what to say.....

 

[otto]

http://news.nationalpost.com/toronto/jian-ghomeshi-trial-day-4

don't think this one has been posted......don't know what to say.....

“I didn’t understand the importance of after-contact incidents,” DeCoutere explained."

This statement is a bit mind boggling. "After-contact incidents" with acquaintances are an indication of how people really feel about the contact.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Oh oh. This is not looking good for the accusers. Mind you, I think Jian is a pig since he was a college student, but these first two witnesses are not very convincing/consistent. I would have a hard time convicting on basis of this evidence so far

Remind me --- this is a bench trial, yes?

 

[otto]

Oh oh. This is not looking good for the accusers. Mind you, I think Jian is a pig since he was a college student, but these first two witnesses are not very convincing/consistent. I would have a hard time convicting on basis of this evidence so far

Remind me --- this is a bench trial, yes?

It is a bench trial.

It does not look good for the Crown at all. Both witnesses sent seductive messages to Ghomeshi after they allege that he was violent with them. No one seems to be able to make sense of the evidence so far:

http://news.nationalpost.com/toronto/jian-ghomeshi-trial-day-4

 

[bluesneakers]

So, what's your point, Otto? Are you saying that what Ghomeshi did was justified because of what you seem to be suggesting are mixed messages?

This sounds so familiar. A lot like what people say in the Bill Cosby rape cases. It's as if everyone who is a victim of violence should be given a manual: "How to Behave Properly Post-Assault."

 

[redheart]

This sounds so familiar. A lot like what people say in the Bill Cosby rape cases. It's as if everyone who is a victim of violence should be given a manual: "How to Behave Properly Post-Assault."

Yes. Thank you. As someone who has walked a mile in similar fitting shoes as these two witnesses, being assaulted by someone can elicit responses that don't make sense to many people, even including yourself. Especially if you've already been conditioned by previous abuse.

Not many people even try to understand that or have compassion, as evidenced by this thread and the general public's response.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Yes. Thank you. As someone who has walked a mile in similar fitting shoes as these two witnesses, being assaulted by someone can elicit responses that don't make sense to many people, even including yourself. Especially if you've already been conditioned by previous abuse.

Not many people even try to understand that or have compassion, as evidenced by this thread and the general public's response.

Untrue. I believe the victims. I believe Jian Gnomeshi is a predatory a-hole. But if I had to go by evidence presented so far, the Crown's case is not looking strong.

 

[matou]

I feel for these women. I think JG will get off on all charges. His career, however, is destroyed. Bigearsteddy made it happen. He needed to be outed. JMO

 

[eucalyptuz]

The Brits said it well - it's all about consent:

[video=youtu;pZwvrxVavnQ]http://youtu.be/pZwvrxVavnQ[/video]

ETA: an initiative of the Thames Valley Police. Well-played.

 

[otto]

This sounds so familiar. A lot like what people say in the Bill Cosby rape cases. It's as if everyone who is a victim of violence should be given a manual: "How to Behave Properly Post-Assault."

Wasn't it Mark Geragos who first said that everyone grieves differently in describing his client Scott Peterson's behaviour after he murdered his wife?

There is no manual about how to behave after being assaulted, but there is a manual for what to do. First, report the assault. Second, avoid contact with the perpetrator. How could a military officer not know that?

 

[redheart]

Untrue. I believe the victims. I believe Jian Gnomeshi is a predatory a-hole. But if I had to go by evidence presented so far, the Crown's case is not looking strong.

What's not true, seattlechiquita? I wasn't speaking about you personally. Many of the opinions I've read in the last few days are in disbelief and contempt that a true victim would act the way these two witnesses have. MOO

ETA: And I'm certainly not just talking about on here.

 

[seattlechiquita]

What's not true, seattlechiquita? I wasn't speaking about you personally. Many of the opinions I've read in the last few days are in disbelief and contempt that a true victim would act the way these two witnesses have. MOO

ETA: And I'm certainly not just talking about on here.

You said:

"Not many people even try to understand that or have compassion, as evidenced by this thread and the general public's response."

I completely disagree. This entire website is about trying to understand human behavior, and it houses some of the most compassionate and empathetic people I have ever known --- most times even more compassionate that I would ever be.

In this particular case however, the Crown's witnesses are not helping their own case, and JG's defense attorney is destroying them. I am not saying they were not assaulted by this a-hole. I believe they were. But their testimony in court is what the Judge will take into account. Not his/her (?) own feelings about them, or about JG.

And, about walking a mile in someone's shoes, I was a bused for years. Brutally abused. And I stayed. So I can understand the victims here just fine. But it doesn't change the fact that their testimony is being shredded like cheese. And it is sad.