JLM: Psych Thread - Professional and Non-Professional Opinions/Theories

[tlcya]

moving my own over from the general hannah found thread to be more on topic - deleted the one at the general thread.

MOO, JM is no sociopath. He is simply a horrid person who felt great power and sadistic pleasure when controlling and terrorising young females. I think he often felt small and awkward and discovered a way to feel powerful and in control. A feeling he rather enjoyed and so continued to evolve into the predator we now see.

 

[SolVol]

These links were posted on an earlier thread and I found them very helpful:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath
http://m.wikihow.com/Spot-a-Sociopath
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...who-discovered-he-was-a-psychopath-180947814/

 

[SolVol]

SolVol, thank you for including this quote from your friend, with which I entirely agree. (OT a bit, but just want to say that those of us with backgrounds in psychology/science often embrace spirituality. They are not mutually exclusive.)

I have read many posts beginning last night that made me appreciate the thoughtfulness and obvious intellect of so many of our websleuths. And thank you so much, Bessie, for opening this thread....I think it will be extremely helpful. I would just caution all, (myself included as Bessie has said: Let's be careful to include links when possible and refrain from making blanket statements that are too over-reaching. This whole topic is delicate, and there is a lot of pop psychology and pseudo-psychology out there, which we would want to avoid if possible. Looking forward to the discussion........

I've seen many cases, where a person was undergoing trauma beyond bearing, or surgery, that the conscious soul and spirit was lifted from the body and observed paramedics and physicians working to save them. There are other cases where a soul encountered a light that exuded love, understanding, wisdom, peace...and other cases where the soul/spirit went to heaven and returned. I have personal experience, not of a near death experience, but of stress and pain, circumstances I could not bear alone and of being lifted and comforted. I believe with all my heart that GOD is love, truth, life, peace, redemption, mercy and goodness... and that He wants to give Himself as our help, comfort, peace in all our sufferings.

 

[LI-Mom]

My view is that labeling disturbing or heinous intent and behavior, talking with individuals who express those feelings and impulses, or developing medications that dull the thoughts and impulses of these individuals, are not 'treatments'. They are simply an attempt at social management and control of unacceptable behavior.

It's the only treatment we have at the moment. If these treatments don't work incarceration is the only choice and that can only happen after those thoughts have become behaviors. Maybe some day medical science will be able to flip the switch of the genes that effect those thoughts and behaviors but until that time we have to work with what we've got. And if we had that ability, is that treatment or social management?

A citizen has a social contract with their fellow citizens. They are expected to behave within the bounds that that society considers acceptable. I am less concerned with the social management of those outside the norm than I am with the social management of an entire society.

 

[MtnLaur]

Not to belabor the nature vs. nuture, genetics vs. environment, there's something I read awhile back that I think could explain a lot of it. It's of course a simplistic overview, but it was “Genetics loads the gun and environment pulls the trigger.” Not necessarily true in all cases but it's my opinion that it's true in a majority of cases.

http://blog.pathway.com/genetics-loads-the-gun-and-environment-pulls-the-trigger-dr-francis-collins/

I agree! It may be a simplified notion, but I don't know of any reputable person in the field who would state that human behavior is completely due to genetics (nature), nor completely due to the environment (nurture.). It will always be a complex mix. The article you mention speaks of genetic testing as being PREDICTIVE, not DETERMINISTIC.

Just jumping off a bit, now: I, for one, also like to discuss, not the individual as a whole, but the individual's behavior. It's the behavior that can be observed and measured and treated in a scientific way. So, when my emotions tell me that someone is a monster, I try to refrain and remember that his BEHAVIOR is monstrous. Humans are greater than the sum of their parts. There are many intangibles, many unknowables.


I respect all opinions here, but to think that a precious baby can be "born evil"-- that concept sends chills down my spine. Yes, there are congenital and genetic anomalies.....but they serve to predict a possibility of problems down the line, not an assurance of problems down the line. Recognizing that there are always exceptions to any rule, I still believe we need to be very, very hesitant to go down the road of saying that monsters are born, and not made. It is likely a combination of both.

(And no! I am not "blaming the parents," at least not in most cases.). Just saying that children are our last vestige of purity and innocence on the planet. Let's don't equate them with some scifi version of "Chucky."

 

[tlcya]

I am very intrigued by the idea that the 2002 rape allegations and the subsequent fizzle of the anticipated football career played into his development into a sadistic predator.

JM strikes me not as having some sociopathic/narcissistic qualities.

Instead I see him as someone who always deeply wanted approval and to fit in and always seemed to come up short with attempts to win those things. Then when he exhibits some prowess with athletics, he seems to feel he has gained a measure of acceptance. He finds his "role", his way of being perceived. But in other aspects of his life I am betting the awkward, not sure how to chat up girls or carry himself in general portion of his personality became even more frustrated. Now that he is somebody he feels like everything should fall into place and yet he is still not able to assimilate. Still square peg round hole.

After the rape accusation in 02 "ruined" his life, his aspired career, brought shame upon him and his family I feel he began to resent women and their seeming power over him. How dare they walk around looking all cute, making him notice them, making him want them. They had to know what they were doing, they were cruel and held all the power. Unfair. Flag on the play. HE was the powerful one and they would soon learn to respect that power. That is what they get for making him feel stupid, inadequate and emasculated. He knows how to assert his power and he is happy to show it.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Actually people had made statements regarding how no amount of nurture could have saved JLM because he was a psychopath, that's what I was referring too.

Conversation about what a psychopath is etc, is understandable and open to discussion and opinion of course! Not disputing that. I was just asking that we lay off labeling JLM with a specific disorder because it may blind as to the larger picture.

I was one of those people you are referring to, perhaps the only one, and I agree with you. In my earlier posts on the topic I was careful to qualify my statements that I believe JLM is a psychopath but in that one post I got sloppy. It's too late for me to edit it now however.

 

[tlcya]

maybe the possible foot fetish/fascination plays into that. In his view, women, dainty little pretty women walked all over him, made him feel small.

ETA not petite mind you. but smaller than he and feminine, dainty, attractive, everything that spoke to him but he couldn't speak back properly to in an acceptable way.

 

[BirdycatNY]

I am very intrigued by the idea that the 2002 rape allegations and the subsequent fizzle of the anticipated football career played into his development into a sadistic predator.

It seems like with some of these type of serial killers (assuming JM is guilty) that there is a catalyst some defining moment of rejection, punishment, or failure that causes hypersensitive to acceptance/rejection/rage/sadistic behavior leading to murder. You're right, this is most likely exactly what set this JLM off. jmo

 

[psyquestor]

Study by Dobbs et. al.

Abstract
Testosterone, crime, and prison behavior were examined among 692 adult male prison inmates. Testosterone was measured from saliva samples, and behavior was coded from prison system records. Inmates who had committed personal crimes of sex and violence had higher testosterone levels than inmates who had committed property crimes of burglary, theft, and drugs. Inmates with higher testosterone levels also violated more rules in prison, especially rules involving overt confrontation. The findings indicate differences between low and high testosterone individuals in the amount and pattern of their misbehavior.

Link: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/019188699400177T

There are many others on the subject, including some that have proper control groups (vis a vis non-inmate males).

 

[MtnLaur]

I've seen many cases, where a person was undergoing trauma beyond bearing, or surgery, that the conscious soul and spirit was lifted from the body and observed paramedics and physicians working to save them. There are other cases where a soul encountered a light that exuded love, understanding, wisdom, peace...and other cases where the soul/spirit went to heaven and returned. I have personal experience, not of a near death experience, but of stress and pain, circumstances I could not bear alone and of being lifted and comforted. I believe with all my heart that GOD is love, truth, life, peace, redemption, mercy and goodness... and that He wants to give Himself as our help, comfort, peace in all our sufferings.

Solvol, I so agree with you.

As you say, there are many accounts out there of these out-of-body/near-death experiences. I personally believe many of them to be true, although people differ greatly in their opinions...I do believe scientists are beginning to study these, as well as related, phenomena. Stanford University comes to mind. Duke University has a well-known parapsychology department.

 

[MomnVA]

Solvol, I so agree with you.

As you say, there are many accounts out there of these out-of-body/near-death experiences. I personally believe many of them to be true, although people differ greatly in their opinions...I do believe scientists are beginning to study these, as well as related, phenomena. Stanford University comes to mind. Duke University has a well-known parapsychology department.

Ironically, UVA is at the forefront as well, with its Division of Perceptual Studies.

 

[human]

Brain and psychopaths. Love is the answer

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...who-discovered-he-was-a-psychopath-180947814/

 

[human]

I am religious. I do not believe God creates junk. We all have things we are born with and have to overcome. We have free will.

We must raise our children with love and use intelligent means. Responding to cries. Holding. Eye contact. There is research on what is good for infants and children.

People decide what they are going to do. But I would like to see one example of a serial killer who had a loving upbringing. Not Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer. They did not have good upbringings.

 

[MtnLaur]

Ironically, UVA is at the forefront as well, with its Division of Perceptual Studies.

Wow, thanks for clueing me in!!!! (I gotta get out more -lol)

 

[Aeronomy]

Also read the FBI study on Serial Killers - http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/201...ses/serial-murder-pathways-for-investigations

SolVol, thank you for providing the link.

From the link: "This monograph is not intended to provide a &#8220;profile&#8221; of serial murder offenders who fall into each pathway. However, this monograph is intended to provide guidance, insight, and knowledge concerning the behaviors and activities of these types of offenders."<--and that is exactly what it does, exceptionally well. Even if no one wants to read through all the information, just taking a few minutes to scroll through the charts and graphs is informative in and of itself. Again, SolVol, thanks!

 

[Bonacker]

I've posted about this before, but at the risk of beating a dead horse: He appears to have had a thing about physically picking people up. He (apparently) did it during the Fairfax attack, he did it to random girls he didn't know in bars, he did it in high school. I find the high school account very telling: That would have been a very big "moment" for JLM, a moment of showing his power that brought positive social attention (if I'm reading the account right). That high school moment could have been emotionally and possibly even sexually arousing. Maybe he kept re-enacting it in some twisted way? That moment of power?

ETA: I don't subscribe to the theory that 2002 rape allegations fueled his rage, and set him off on his course as a sadistic killer. No. You don't become a sadist because of a single incident in early adulthood. He was a sadist long before that. And he reportedly savagely beat at least one of the college rape victims. If the allegation is true, he was already a sadistic rapist by college.

 

[Jmm124567]

If JLM is a sociopath, a psychopath or a combination thereof, he is incapable of sympathy and empathy or remorse for his compulsions and actions. I've read lots about the sexual abuser priests and other sexual offenders. They feel justified and rarely feel any guilt whatsoever.

Archbishop Diarmuid Martin in Ireland, who interviewed hundreds of sexual predator priests said he had only found one or two that had genuine remorse.

Another expert on violent sexual predators said, (paraphrase) 'once sexual gratification/urge is joined to violence, it usually escalates into murder and cannot be treated/cured.'

Such people are usually following a pattern they have observed or experienced in their earlier years.

JMO and opinion of experts in criminology and psychology.

The interview @ Inside C-ville with Dr. Jeffrey Farcher gives insight into the mind of a sexual predator - http://insidecville.com/city/dr-jeffrey-fracher/
Also read the FBI study on Serial Killers - http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/201...ses/serial-murder-pathways-for-investigations
---
As for my own feelings over this - as a parent of three daughters, three granddaughters (one a college freshman) - there is grief, tears, hurt for the family, anger, pity, all mixed up and alternating.

This quote from a friend says it best for me:

"I can assure you, Hannah Graham did not die abandoned and alone.
She was surrounded by The LORD GOD’s unfailing, unflinching, eternal LOVE and LIGHT and multitudes of ministering angels. Heavenly arms reached out for her, lifted and held her close.
Though her body was abducted and abused, her soul and spirit were kept and separated from evil and harm. ~ Psalm 121, Isaiah 55:1-2"

Didn't JM show remorse though immediately after he assaulted a guy in 2009? He apparently lost his temper then apologized and acted remorseful from what I have read. I think he even offered to drive the guy to the hospital. It could have just been all an act though.

 

[littlemaybaby]

Didn't JM show remorse though immediately after he assaulted a guy in 2009? He apparently lost his temper then apologized and acted remorseful from what I have read. I think he even offered to drive the guy to the hospital. It could have just been all an act though.

I believe that was more of an act of self preservation than remorse. Had he been arrested for assault they would have gotten his DNA into the database and undoubtedly he knew he left DNA behind at the 2005 crime scene. It *could* have been remorse, but I bet it was more of an "Oh s---, if I get arrested then I'm caught."

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I've posted about this before, but at the risk of beating a dead horse: He appears to have had a thing about physically picking people up. He (apparently) did it during the Fairfax attack, he did it to random girls he didn't know in bars, he did it in high school. I find the high school account very telling: That would have been a very big "moment" for JLM, a moment of showing his power that brought positive social attention (if I'm reading the account right). That high school moment could have been emotionally and possibly even sexually arousing. Maybe he kept re-enacting it in some twisted way? That moment of power?

ETA: I don't subscribe to the theory that 2002 rape allegations fueled his rage, and set him off on his course as a sadistic killer. No. You don't become a sadist because of a single incident in early adulthood. He was a sadist long before that. And he reportedly savagely beat at least one of the college rape victims. If the allegation is true, he was already a sadistic rapist by college.

Excellent post.
He is a sexual predator & sadist.
As the band "Talking Heads" called it -- Psycho Killer.

And I think more will come out in the near future......