Jodi Arias recorded statements and interviews

[minor4th]

Originally posted by Ingra1327

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - *graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**

Jodi Arias Trial Day 21 Cross Examination Part 3: Accusation and Magazines
JM: Nowhere in your journal do you ever mention anything about Mr. Alexander and this incident that you claim involving masturbatory conduct, correct?
JA: That’s correct
JM: Take a look at exhibit 463 listing phone calls between you and Mr. Alexander or from Mr. Alexander to you
(1:30)
JA: Ok
JM: I understand those are not your phone records, right?
JA: That’s right
JM: And so I don’t expect you to vouch for the authentication aspect of it, but we did previously discuss the between you and Mr. Alexander and you indicated that that seems right. The calls that were previously discussed, they’re on that sheet, correct?
JA: Um, not all of the calls but yes some are
JM: All of the calls that are there are the one’s between you and him, correct?
JA: The ones highlighted are between him and I, yes
JM: There are other calls, but not between you and him, right?
JA: yes

JM: And the calls between you and him are the ones that you and I talked about and that you indicated that they seemed right, correct?
JA: They seem correct, that’s right
JM: That sheet bears that out, correct
JA: Yeah, the times are out of order, but
JM: The times are out of order; they’re out of order because they’re different switches that carried the calls, right?
JA: I don’t know
KN: Objection
JM: But they are out of order
JA: The times are out of order, yes
JM: But the, in terms of the calls themselves, for example we talked about you calling him at 3:53 pm, you could find that on there, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: There’s a blue marking for those, right
JA: Yes
JM: There’s that call, right and there is no other call on the 21st previous to 3:53 pm that you can see, right?
JA: You mean from me to him?
JM: Um, right or from him to you or from you to him
JA: From me to him, I don’t see any others before 3:53
JM: Right, and the last call that was made by Mr. Alexander on that telephone was at 7:11 pm, right?
There are no calls from his phone number after
JA: I don’t see the one at 7:11
JM: The last call period that he made, not just to you, but to anybody.
JA: On the 21sr
JM: to anybody
JA: Okay
JM: That is the last call, right? There may be others that have called him, but that’s the last call he made.
JA: Oh, I didn’t look at who was calling who. Um it looks like this is the last call from his cell phone on the 22nd,
JM: The 21st
JA: um the 21st, my apologies.
JM: Ma’am this issue regarding your allegation, if I may have that back, that Mr. Alexander was engaging in masturbation while viewing images of boys and girls, that was subject of a hearing back on August 8 of 2011 wasn’t it?
JA: Um, I believe it was, partly
JM: Well, ma’am let me show you a document to make sure we’re clear. If I can have it certified.

Attorneys at sidebar
(10:18)
JM: Ma’am look at exhibit 464 and see if this refreshes your recollection as to the date of the hearing, which is in the upper right-hand corner, and then take a look at page three to see if that refreshes your recollection that there was a hearing at all
(11:10)
JA: Yes, there is some language I don't understand but I can remember this
JM: Right, I’m just asking about the date, August 8th, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: And the purpose of that hearing involved at least an aspect of the allegation that Mr. Alexander had engaged in pedophilic conduct, correct
KN: Objection
Judge: Overruled
JA: an aspect, yes
JM: and 4 days, on August 4th before that, you tried to get somebody to lie at that hearing, didn't you?
JA: No
JM: Alright, let me show you some documents. I want you to take a look at exhibit 465.
KN: Judge we're gonna object, may we approach?
Judge: Yes, you may approach

(19:16)

Judge: Exhibit 465 is admitted
Ma’am, previously you talked to us yesterday during direct examination about being in jail and doing and interview with Inside Edition, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: And in fact you were in jail when you received this magazine, correct
JA: Yes
JM: It’s addressed to you, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: And with regard to this magazine, on August 4th, isn’t it true that an individual by the name of Ann Campbell came to visit you
JA: Yes
JM: And she came by and the visitation began at 1:36 but for you, roughly 1:30 in the afternoon, right?
JA: Yeah, it was in the afternoon.
JM: And that conversation between you and Ann Campbell lasted approximately an hour, correct?
JA: Um, it lasted a long time from what I remember
JM: And as part of the process while you were there, as part of the visitation one of the things that you wanted to do was to give two magazines to Ms. Campbell, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: and the way it works is that before you give that magazine, it has to go through a guard so that they can give it out to the person, right?
JA: It has to go through a sergeant
JM: Right, and in this case, that’s what happened with the magazine, correct?
JA: umm yeah, it goes through an officer, then a sergeant, then another officer.
JM: Bottom line is you wanted to give this magazine to Ann Campbell, right?
JA: That one and another one
JM: Right, Star magazine, correct?
JA: Yes, Star
JM: Well let’s look at the other magazine. Take a look at exhibit number 466.
JA: Is this the magazine that you wanted to give to Ann Campbell, exhibit 466?
JA: I don’t see
JM: Well, it’s got your name as the addressee, correct?
JA: Um, yes
JM: And it is a Star magazine, correct?
JA: Yes, that’s the one
JM: And it’s the one that went along with the photography magazine, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: Move for the admission of exhibit 466.
KN: No objection
Judge: 466 is admitted

(24:54)
JM: Exhibit 465 is called Digital Photo Pro magazine, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: You previously indicated to us that you’re very interested in photography and that sort of thing, right?
JA: I, yes, I was
JM: And that for many years prior to your arrest that you were involved in that sort of thing?
JA: Yes
JM: You took photographs at weddings and other kinds of photographs, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And here is the tag that’s on there, it does have your name on there, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And inside this magazine on page 6, if you just look at it, would be the printed numbers to the side and the red numbers to the side. There is some writing in pencil can you see it?
JA: Yes
JM: And can you tell us, if you can, what that says.
JA: Mark Stanach 520-256-1178, ABC in parentheses
JM: And you know who Mark Stanach is, right?
JA: Yes
JM: Mark Stanach is a producer for at that time was a producer for ABC news, correct?
JA: Yes, well I don’t know if he was a producer at that time
JM: But he had visited you on occasion, right?
JA: Um, yes about four years ago
JM: Right about the same time that it’s going on, let me just show you exhibit number 467. Does that refresh your recollection as to when this individual from ABC news was visiting you?
JA: Um, yes
JM: And what dates did he visit you?
JA: July 8 2009 and September 17, 2009
JM: Okay and that’s the same individual that’s mentioned there, right?
JA: Yes
JM: You previously indicated to us that in regards to Inside Edition that they came to visit you and that you really didn’t solicit them coming out to the jail to talk to you, right?
JA: That’s right
JM: And that you believe that the guard pushed you into that interview, right?
JA: Inside Edition, yes
JM: And what was that guard’s name?
JA: I don’t remember her name, it was 5 years ago, almost, she didn’t push me, she just encouraged me.
JM: Well who, what’s the name of this person that encouraged you?
JA: I don’t remember her name, they don’t wear nametags.
JM: But with regard to the visit involving to Mark Stanach at ABC news she had nothing to do with that, right?
JA: No, nothing to do with that one
JM: And you took his visit, right?
JA: Yes I did
JM: You can refuse a visit from anybody you want, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: And you did not refuse his visit, right?
JA: That’ right
JM: Now, let’s take a look at another page, page 20 and there are some words there are page 20 and they’re kind of hard to find, but they’re in pencil, right. The writings?
JA: I haven’t seen them
JM: Those are in pencil, right?
JA: It looks like it, yes
JM: Pardon
JA: It looks like it, yes
JM: Well, no, take a look at it, I want to make sure.
JA: Yes, it is.
JM: and where you are living currently they do not allow pens, right?
JA: That’s right
JM: They only allow pencils, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And on this page number 20 it says, read it for me
JA: you testify so
JM: Page 37, you would agree that the one on page 20 is kind of hard to find.
JA: It seems like it, yeah
JM: Page 37 has some more writing on it, see that, right there. Again if the glare is too much let me know and I’ll
JA: It looks like it says, oh you want me to read it, sorry?
JM: yes, please
JA: It looks like it says “we can fix this”
JM: “we can fix this”, right?
JA: Right
JM: Page 40 has some more writing on it, and the lighting’s not so good, but it says. What does it say?
JA: It looks like it says directly contradicts what I've been saying for over a year
JM: ok and the publishing date on this item is August 2011 correct?
JA: That's correct
JM: Page 43 says what?
JA: It says you ****ed up what you told my attorney the other the next day
JM: ok and page 54 says, what
JA: Interview was excellent, must talk ASAP
JM: and 56 says what
JA: get down here ASAP and see me before you talk to them again and before
JM: It doesn't seem to make much sense but let me mark exhibit for you.

(32:42)
Take a look at exhibit 468 this contains the pages of what was written on them, doesn't it?
And if you need the book let me know.
JA: Yes
JM: I move for the admission of exhibit 468
KN: Objection as to foundation
Judge: approach

(34::50)
Judge: 468 is admitted
JM: In summary this is what we've just covered, correct, in the magazine
JA: That’s correct
[Exhibit 468: Digital Photo Pro Magazine
Page 6: March Stanoch (520)256-1178 (ABC)
Page 20: You testify so
Page 37: We can fix this
Page 40: directly contradicts what I've been saying for over a year
Page 43: You ****ed up. What you told my attorney next day
Page 54: Interview was excellent! Must talk asap!
Page 56: Get down here asap and see me before you talk to them again and before]
JM: Let’s take a look at the Star magazine, which is exhibit 466, and this is addressed to you correct?
JA: Yes
JA: I see July 2011 up in the corner and Feb 6 2012 there
JM: If we go to page 82, because if we look at this exhibit number 468, what is written here doesn't seem to make sense, right?
JA: Not offhand, not
JM: But if we then go to exhibit 466, there are some numbers on the bottom of that and they are in pencil, aren’t they?
JA: Um, yes
JM: What are the numbers?
JA: My understanding is that they’re page numbers
JM: That may be your understanding but what are the numbers
JA: 43, 40, 56, 20, 37, 54
JM: ok. If we then combine with exhibit 468, according to those numbers, ma’am, I want you to take a look at an exhibit: 469. Does exhibit 469 have those statements in the order that was set up in Star magazine?
JA: Yes
JM:
JM: Move for the admission of exhibit number 469
Objection your honor.
Judge: Overruled, exhibit 469 is admitted.

(38:52)
JM: Take a look at, read it please
JA: You ****ed up. What you told my attorney next day directly contradicts what I've been saying for a year. Get down here asap and see me before you talk to them again and before you testify so we can fix this. Interview was excellent! Must talk asap!
JM: so ma’am this was written in these two magazines four days, when you attempted to transfer them, four days before a hearing on August 8, 2011, right?
JA: I don't know where they were written
JM: Well, this magazine the Star magazine as well as the photography magazine, You attempted to transfer those on August 4 four days before this hearing, right?
JA: Just the magazines, yes
JM: I know you keep saying just the magazines, the magazines have your name on them, correct?
JA: Yes, I’m only allowed to release my own property
JM: Ma’am, I understand that, but those magazines have your name on them, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And those magazines were in your possession on August 4th of 2011, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And those magazines you had with you when you went to meet with Ann Campbell, right?
JA: I brought them almost to the visit, but they don’t go with me to see her
JM: Excuse me?
JA: They don’t go with me to see her they get passed off to several officers.
JM: I understand, but you brought them there yourself, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: And you, at some point during the visit requested that these magazines be given to Ann Campbell, right?
JA: Yes
JM: These two magazines that we’re talking about, correct?
JA: Correct
JM: And that was actually done, and you’re trying to tell us about the process. Why don’t you tell us what the process is
JA: The process is when you want to release property, you have to fill out a request, you have to state your request fairly specifically, what you’re releasing, the title of what you’re releasing. Um at least those are the rules now, they’ve updated it. It was more generic then. And it is given to an officer who inspects it and when it passes inspection it’s given to a sergeant who approves then it’s passed off to, um, either I think it’s called there’s a control center it’s given to that officer, then it’s given to a visitation officer so when the visitor leaves, they pick up the property and go.
JM: And that’s how this, and you attempted to use that process to get these magazines to Ann Campbell, right?
JA: Yes

 

[minor4th]

Originally posted by ingra1327

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - *graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**

Jodi Arias Trial Day 23 Morning Cross part 1

*JM:* Ma’am when you were 17 years old, you moved out of your parents’ house and you moved into Bobby Juarez, correct?
JA:* Yes
JM:* And you and he were living at his grandmother’s house, correct?
JA:* Um, I believe they were his grandparents, but he called them his parents
JM:* And this was in Montague, correct?
JA:* Yes
JM:* And the address actually was 611 N. 9th street in Montague, California, in Montague, correct?
JA:* I don’t remember the house number, but ninth street is correct
JM:* And part of what happened when you were living with him was that you and he became much closer, right?
JA:* Um we just continued our relationship
JM:* Yeah, but it got to a point though that you felt something, right, that something was wrong.
JA:* Umm, yes, oh yeah that’s right
JM:* and you felt that something was wrong and so it was something that was inside you and so that for a period of time you kept it inside you but there was a feeling that something was wrong involving Mr. Juarez, right?
JA:* It was more than a feeling, but
JM:* When you say it was more than a feeling, what are you talking about, did you see something else, or what?
JA:* I saw and heard, yes
JM:* And you saw, before you did anything, what did you see?
JA:* Um, he used to talk on the phone a lot with a woman that he was friends with prior to our relationship that he had been interested, said he was no longer interested, but their conversations were long, kind of a little over the line for what I feel is appropriate for a boyfriend of mine.
JM:* So, you had this sense that something was wrong, he was talking on the telephone to somebody that he previously knew before, correct?
JA:* Yes
JM:* And this individual was in New Orleans, Louisiana then, correct
JA:* Yes
JM:* And because the conversations took a long time,that was something that sort of gave a rise to you, to feel that something was wrong additionally, right?
JA:* That and he had a prior interest in her
JM:* Ok, so he had a prior interest in her and he was on the telephone and you believed also that the subject matter that he was addressing on the telephone was something that was also inappropriate, right?
JA:* Somewhat, yes
JM:* When you say somewhat it means it wasn’t, so what are you talking about, what is the subject matter, don’t tell me what he said, what subject matter did they discuss that you thought was inappropriate?
JA: Um, it was more, I don't remember the specific subject matter, it was the tone, and the way he spoke to her, that kind of thing
JM: Okay so now it wasn't subject matter, it was just the tone that you are talking about, right
JA: No, it was subjectmatter, I just don't remember the specific subject matter
JM: And as a result of that one of the things that happened is that you had a car, right
JA: Yes
JM : And you were driving around occasionally
JA: All the time
JM: so you were driving around then, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And at some point one day you were going to go to work, right
JA: Yes
JM: And when you were going to work, one of the things that happened was you stopped at the library, right?
JA: That's right
JM: And you stopped at the library so that he could go onto a computer there at the library and log on and look at whatever he was going to look at
JA: Both of us, yes
JM: Well, did you get on that same computer with him?
JA: Yes
JM: So at the same time that you're on there, you go onto that computer and you're looking at what's going on, right?
JA: Yes for one period of time
JM: When you say long period of time how long were you on there that's a long period of time when you're at the library?
JA: I didn't say long, I said one
JM: So one period of time, is that what you say?
JA: Yes
JM: Are you saying it was just one time
JA: That day, yes
JM: So that day, as I understand what you're saying is, you go to the library with him and he gets on the computer and you're looking at this computer too?
JA: we get on the computer together
JM: Okay, both of you get on the computer, did you use a code, a password, how is it that it work?
JA: Um, there was not code necessary for the websites we were visiting at the moment.
JM: Anbody can get on the computers there at the library and get into someone's, for example, hotmail account?
JA: I think there would be a password necessary for hotmail, but Id on't know you could get on the computer for something without a password necessary or a login in Yreka in 1997, at that time, yes,or that was '98, excuse me.
JM: So you in order to login, what you're saying is you did or you didn't need a password to get onto the computer
JA: Um, did not need a password to get onto the computer
JM: But you did need a password to get onto, for example, hotmail, a specific hotmail account, right?JA: that's right
JM: or a gmail account if that was around?
JA: Um, yes, I would think, I don't know about gmail.
JM: but it was hotmail back then, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And both of you went onto this computer and he looked at whatever he was looking at and you looked at whatever you were gonna look at and you dropped him off at a friend's house, I think is what you said, right
JA: Well there was one thing that happened in between that
JM: Pardon
JA: There was one thing that happened in between that
JM: I understand that you want to tell me about that, but you did drop him off at some point, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And after you dropped him off, you were supposed to go to work, weren't you?
JA: Umm, yes
JM: That's what you told us on direct examination, right?
JA: That' right
JM: And after you went to work, you didn't tell us about anything that was in between there on direct examination, did you?
JA: Um, I don't know
JM: Do you have a problem with your memory, I mean this was approximately no more than two weeks away
JA: I don't think I had a problem
JM: But you don't remember things that happened two weeks, within two weeks, do you?
JA: Sometimes yes, sometimes no
JM: And in this case, you don't, right?
JA: Um, I don't remember if I gave you the details
JM: So the answer is either yes or no, do you remember
JA: Remember what?
JM: What are we talking about?
JA: We're talking about the incident
JM: Right, and what specifically of the incident are we talking about?
JA: I'm not sure
JM: So you're having trouble focusing on what's being asked of you today? Having memory problems?
JA: Yes
JM: So, when I asked you about what was going on with Mr. Juarez, you had no problem understanding about Mr. Juarez, right
JA: That's right
JM: And you had no problem understanding that we're talking about the time you and he went to thelibrary so that you could get onto the computer and look at the computer, right?
JA: That's right
JM: And during that time after you looked at the computer, you were going to go to work, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And on the way to work, you dropped of Mr. Juarez wherever it was you dropped him off, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And after you dropped him off, you, because of whatever reason decided to go back to that computer, right?
JA: That's right
JM: And what you're telling us, is that when you went to that computer, you hit backspace, right?
JA: Yes
JM: That's what you told us on direct examination, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And when you hit backspace you were able to access Bobby's hotmail account, right
JA: Yes
JM: Even though that's password protected, right?
JA: Only if you log out
JM: So if you don't log out you can get right back on, right
JA: as long as your not logged out, yes
JM: And so in this particular case, the security at the library is such that if they didn't log out anybody could have come in and looked at what's going on, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And in this case, that's what you're telling us happened, right?
JA: Yes, he did not log out
JM: And you didn't think of telling him to log out either, right?
JA: By that point I was on another computer
JM: Yes or no, yes or no
JA: No
JM: And with regard to the portion of the hotmail you were obviously looking at the hotmail account, the two of you together, right
JA: No
JM: Well if you need a password to get into the hotmail account and you say both of you were looking at this account
JA: I didn't say that
JM: Well didn't you tell us that you and he went onto this computer together?
JA: That's right
JM: And that you were there when he was looking at this computer, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And you're also telling us that you need a password to look at the hotmail account, right
JA: That's right
JM: So while you're sitting there and while he puts the password in for the hotmail account, he accesses or looks at his hotmail account in front of you, right?
JA: No
JM: Well I thought you were sitting next to him
JA:* I was at one point
JM:* And now you’re not sitting next to him when he's looking at his hotmail account, right
JA: No, I went to my own computer to login to my email
JM:* So the answer is no you weren’t sitting next to him to look at his Hotmail account, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And you went over to another computer to look at at this point, right?
JA: Yes
JM:* How long were the both of you there at the library?
JA: I don't remember, but it wasn't too long
JM: And after that is when you dropped him off somewhere, right?
JA: Yes, at his friend's house
JM: And that's when you had this idea to go back and look at his computer, right?
JA: That's right
JM:* And, did you think of asking him what he was doing?
JA: I did ask him
JM:* And you weren’t satisfied with his responses, were you?
JA: that's right
JM: You were suspicious, right
JA: Very
JM: And so you were, at that point very direct about, or focused about what you were going to do, right?
JA: Yes
JM: You were going to go back to that library to see what was in that computer, right?
JA: Yes
JM: Even though that was not your account?
JA: Yes
JM:* You, in a sense, were snooping in someone’s mail, weren't you?
JA: I guess you could put it that way
JM: No, I want to know how you would put it?
JA: That's not how I would put it
JM: Ma'am is there any other way to put it other than you were looking at things that were not yours to look at?
JA:* I would put it a different way
JM: You would put, it’s not snooping, then even though that's not your accout
JA: That's not how I would put it
JM: I know that's not how you would put it, but that's what you were doing, right?
JA: It could be looked at that way
JM: Well, I’m asking how you you would look at it, did you tell Bobby, hey, I'm going back to look in your account, you didn't do that, right
JA: No
JM: You didn’t say to him and then when I go back to look at this account I'm gonna look to see if there are any letters between you and this woman, right
JA: No
JM: And in fact you didn't tell him if I find something, I’m going to print those letters out, right?
JA: I didn't know him that
JM: Well, you didn't tell him that you, any of that before you went there, right
JA: No, I did not
JM: And you did all of this without his permission, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And so you go back and you tell us that you hit the backspace button and your there into his hotmail account, right?
JA: That's right
JM: So how much time passed between the time he was on there and you came back?
JA: Well it's Yreka, so not much time, he wasn't far
JM: Give me a time, it may be doesn’t matter where you are, I just want to know how much time
JA: Between what and what again?
JM: What are we talking about, Ma'am?
JA: We're talking about the incident
JM: Right, a nd we’re talking about where you took him, right
JA: Yes
JM: And we're talking about you coming back, right?
JA: Okay
JM: And we’re also talking about the time he logged in initially, right?
JA: Okay
JM: And we're talking about how much time elapsed between the time he logged in and the time you came back and hit that backspace button.
JA: I don't know
JM: Could it have been an hour?
JA: No, it was not an hour, I almost had to be at work, like, right then
JM: What's that?
JA: I had to be at work almost right then, so it was only a matter of minutes
JM: So you decided to, so it's only a matter of minutes, your saying it's about five minutes then?
KN: Objection, mischaracterizes her testimony
Judge: restate your question.
JM: How many minutes?
JA: I don’t know, I wasn’t timing it.
JM: Did you, after that, Did you go to work and say hey, I'm not gonna come and do work or did you go back to the library
JA: At what point
JM: At the point that you decide to go back to the library
JA: I went to the library first before going to work
JM: I'm not asking you that, did you notify work, ma'am, that you were going to be late?
KN: Objection, relevance
Judge: Overruled
JA: I notified them afterward I did, I didn't notify them that I'd be late, I notified them that I wasn't coming in that day.
JM: In other words you didn’t even have the courtesy to tell them that you weren't going to come in until after this computer issue was
KN: Objection argumentative, relevance
JM: presented
Judge: Sustained
JM: So you didn't tell them that you weren't going to work until after the this computer issue, right?
KN: Objection, argumentative and relevance. He restated the same question.
Judge: Overruled
JA: After the computer, is that what you asked?
JM: Yes
JA: Yes, I was too upset
JM: And how long, did I ask ou if you were upset?
JA: mm mmm,
JM: Is that no?
JA: no
JM: So did you then go to the computer and you started looking at it, right, you hit the backspace button, right?
JA: Yes
JM: Did it take you directly to his correspondence?
JA: Yes
JM: And you started reading things, right
JA: Yes
JM: What was the name of this woman?
JA: I don't remember
JM: And you did print out some of the letters, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And you believed they were inappropriate, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And they were inappropriate, they weren't of a sexual nature, were they
JA: Umm, no
JM: They were just sortof friendly kind of letters, right
JA: They were beyond friendly
JM: Well, they weren't sexual, though, right
JA: No
JM: And they didn't indicate that they had met recently, or anything like that, right?
JA: They had never met before
JM: And they had never had any sort of , I don't know, physical contact the point is they hadn’t met before, correct?
JA: Not by that point
JM: They hadn’t before at the point that you are looking at these letters, right?
KN: objection argumentative
JA: Yes, not by that pont.
Judge: overruled
JM: And you then, however, decided that there was a problem, that he was cheating on you, right
JA: Yes
JM: And that sort of validated what you’d been feeling, right
JA: Yes, very much
JM: And so you decided to do something about it right then and there, right?
JA: Yes
JM: You didn’t go into work, right?
JA: Umm, I did not
JM: You did notify them them that you were not going to go into work that day, that's what you told us, right?
JA: Yes I did
JM: Where were you working?
JA: I think I was working at the Purple Plum
JM: And then you went to where Mr. Juarez was and you started to talk to him about these letter, right?
JA: First I printed them, then I went there with them
JM: You did go to talk to Mr.* Juarez, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: And you had these letters and you confront him with them, with the letters, right?
JA: Yes
JM: Ma'am, in your personal life, not in your professional life, but in your personal life, you’re very direct when you feel you’ve been aggrieved aren't you?
KN: Objection, argumentative
Judge: Overruled
JA: It depends on how comfortable I am with the person.
JM: Well, you were comfortable enough to immediately confront Bobby, right?
JA: Absolutely
JM: Because you had a relationship, right?
JA: Yes
JM: You didn't waste any time going right to him and saying, look,I have these letters and they're a problem for me, right?
JA: I didn't say that
JM: You didn’t go to him, you didn't go to him with these letters?
JA: I did but I didn't say what you said
JM: Well, so you told him you were okay with the letters, then, right?
JA: I didn’t say that either
JM: Well, you let him know that you had a problem with those letters, didn't you?
JA: I didn't say anything I handed them to him and cried and he read them
JM: So you went in there, you gave him the letters and you started to cry, right
JA: Yeah
JM: But that was after you had not gone into work, after you had sort of gone into his computer, his personal items and then immediately within minutes, cause Yreka’s really small according to you, you were there confronting him, right?
JA: I guess you could say confrontation
JM: No, I don't want you tosay, I don't want you to guess on anything. You were there showing him these letters, I don't know if you were saying a word or not, you were there, right?
JA: Define showing, I just handed them to him
JM: Okay, showing, giving someone the letters doesn’t mean showing them to you?
JA: They were folded up
JM: Giving someone the letters doesn't mean showing them to you, that person?
JA: It could
JM: It could, well you were there, if you gave him the letters your intent was to have him look at them, right?
JA: Yes
JM: So when you gave them to him, you showed him the letters, right?
JA: He reviewed them
JM: Ma'am did you show him the letters?
KN: Objection asked and answered
Judge: Sustained
JM: After you gave him the letters, he began to read them?
JA: Yes
JM: And you were standing there, right
JA: Yes
JM: And you did not waste, in other words, you immediately went to see him, there wasn’t anything intervening other than going to work and letting them know that you were not going to come into to work, right?
JA: Actually that’s not right, I did go home and get all my things and move it out
JM: So you were even more assertive you were not gonna put up with any of this you put the stuff that you had at his house and then you moved out, right?
JA: Yes
JM: That's assertive isn't it, even at the age of 17 or 18, isn't it
KN: Objection, argumentative
Judge: sustained
JM: you didn't waste any time at that tender age, did you
JA: No, I'd never been cheated on before
JM: Ma'am, did I ask you if you've been cheated on before?
JA: No
JM: I’m asking you whether or not at that moment you made that decision and you moved out, right?
JA: Yes
JM: you weren't gonna put up with it, right?
JA: No
JM: And then you went to talk to him about it, right?
JA: Yes
JM : And then you guys broke up about it, over it
JA: We actually didn't
JM: You stayed with him
JA: Yes
JM: Even though you felt that you had been cheated on, you decided to stay
JA: After some talking
JM: The answer is yes or not, did you decide to stay
JA: Eventually, yes
JM: Eventually means ah there was something that happened in between and you're telling us that you talked about it right?
JA: mmm hmm
JM: Is that yes
JA: That's yes
JM: Where did you go with your stuff, where did you actually spend the night that night after you took your stuff and put it in the car?
JA:* my grandmothers
JM:* And how long did you stay there?
JA:* I don’t remember, it wasn’t too long
*JM:* Was it days, was it hours?
JA:* Probably a few days
JM:* So after a few days, you decided to get back with Bobby, right?
JA:* Yes
JM:* And that was your decision, right?
JA:* To get back with him
JM:* Yes
JM:* That was after talking to him, right?
JA:* Yes
JM:* Whatever it was that he said, and whatever thoughts you were thinking, you felt comfortable enough to go back, right?
JA:* Yes
JM:* Additionally, do you remember when we talked about Matthew McCartney?
JA:* Yes
JM:* You sort of did the same thing with regard to him, didn’t you?
JA: In what way
JM:* In the way we are talking about
JA:* Be more specific
JM:* Okay, you had a feeling, you remember, after looking at a photograph?
JA:* Yes
JM:* And based on that feeling, you drove to Crater Lake, right?
JA:* No
JM:* Where did you drive to ma’am?
JA:* I drove to Crater Lake, but not based on a feeling.
JM:* Well, you saw a photograph with a little B on it, right
JA:* yes
JM:* And you believed something was going on, right?
JA:* Not at that point
JM:* Well at some point you did go to Crater lake what is it that you learned that allowed you to go to Crater Lake, right?
JA:* Um, two of his co-workers told me that he was with a girl named Bianca
JM:* You were at work, right?
KN:* Objection let her answer the questions
Judge:* give your response
JA:* A couple was, came into my work and they told me they wanted to tell me something and it was about Bianca
JM:* And so you saw the photograph, you heard this, and you immediately left work, right?
JA:* I went home early, yes
JM:* But you immediately left work isn’t that what I asked you?
JA:* No, I had to do some side work before I left
JM:* How much time elapsed between the time that you heard about this and the side work?
JA:* Probably five to10 minutes
JM:* And so then after the five to ten minutes, you left because you were going to go take care of this issue by speaking with Bianca, right?
JA:* First I drove to Ashland
JM:* Did I ask you where you went?
JA:* Yes
JM:* No, I asked you whether or not you confront, went to speak with Bianca.* Did you speak to her that day?
JA:* Yes
JM:* Did you tell us that you drove an hour and a half
JA:* I believe it was about that long
JM:* And so you weren’t going to put up with that, were you?
JA:* Put up with what?
JM:* Well, what is it that we’re talking about here
JA:* Which part put up with?
JM:* Were you gonna put up with what we just talked about, are you having problems understanding again what’s going on?
JA:* Sometimes, you go in circles
JM:* Ma’am, I’m asking you, Did you have any problem knowing that we were talking about Matthew McCartney?
JA:* No
JM:* Did you have any problem that we were discussing Bianca?
JA:* No
JM:* Did you have any problem after you told us that you were at work, right?
JA:* Did I have any problem?
JM:* Understanding that
JA:* No
JM:* Did you have any problems understanding that after five or ten minutes you left, right?
JA:* That’s right
JM:* And then after five or ten minutes, you went, drove an hour and a half to speak with Bianca, right?
JA:* No
JM:* What did you do in between?
JA:* I drove about 15 miles south to my home in Ashland changed out of my stinky work clothes, and just threw on some jeans and a t-shirt and hit the road.
JM:* Other than your stop at your house to change clothing, you did go straight to talk to Bianca, right
JA:* Yes
JM:* Because you, whenever you feel that something’s not right,* that’s your personality it appear, you are going to confront that person, right?
JA:* Not necessarily
JM:* Pardon, not necessarily, well the two occasions that we know of with the two boyfriends, isn’t that what you’ve done?
JA:* Um, yes

 

[minor4th]

Originally posted by ingra1327

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - *graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**

Jodi Arias Day 23 Cross Examination Morning part 2

JM:* And so, with regard to Mr. Alexander, sort of the same thing happened back in August of 2007?
JA: No, it was in June
JM: Pardon
JA: June
JM: Well do you remember talking to us about an incident in August of 2007 when you were looking inside and you saw him kissing a woman, do you remember that?
JA: okay that incident was in August
JM: Do you remember that
JA: Yes
JM: And you weren't happy with that incident, were you?
JA: No
JM: And you thought you were being courted
JA: I was being courted
JM: And you felt that you were being wronged, right?
JA: I wouldn't say wronged
JM: Well, you felt strongly enough about it to go and confront him the next day, didn't you?
JA: I don't even know if it was confrontation. It was very non-confrontational on my end.
JM: You went to see him, right?
JA: Yes
JM: You went to talk to him, right?
JA: Yes
JM: You went to clear things up, right
JA: Yes, exactly
JM: You just have a problem with the word confrontation, because you say you are not confrontational, right?
JA: No, it's because I wasn't allowed to be confrontational with Travis
JM: You're saying that, right now, that you're not allowed, how can he possible control how you acted?
JA: He had that control.
JM: You’re saying that he controlled you so much that when you were in his presence you had no free will, that's what you're telling us, right?
JA: That's not what I said.
JM: Well, you could have left anytime you were in his presence, couldn't you?
JA: Yes
JM: You did have the opportunity to never go there if you didn't want to, right?
JA:* Yes
JM:* And in fact you moved to Yreka when you wanted to?
JA: Not when I wanted to, but eventually
JM: Well, wait a minute, you said you were going to leave around March and you talked to him about leaving in March and by April you're gone, right?
JA: Yes
JM: So that’s leaving when you want, right?
JA: No, I wanted to leave much earlier.
JM: Well you could have made arrangements
JA: If I had the financial means
JM: Well, you spoke to your mom about it,didn't you?
JA: Eventually
JM: In your personal dealings, you don’t waste any time, do you?
JA: No, I’m an procrastinator.
JM: Even though these examples indicate that you acted immediately, you believe that you procrastinated, right?
JA: I didn't act immediately in August of 2007
JM: Well with regard to Mr. Juarez, you acted immediately right?
JA: Yes, I did
JM: With regard to Mr. McCartney, you acted immediately, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And with regard to Mr. Brewer, you acted immedately, too, right?
JA: Regarding what
JM: What are we talking about here, ma'am?
JA: Mr. Brewer never cheated on me to my knowledge
JM: Well, we're not asking, I'm not asking about cheating, I'm asking about getting out of relationships. You did get out of that relationship almost immediately after meeting Mr. Alexander, right?
JA: Um, no, I had already had one foot out the door on that relationship
JM: But once you knew you met Mr. Alexander you got back home and immediately that Thursday, you told Mr. Brewer that it was over, right?
JA: Immediately as in four days later
JM: Yes, immediately as in four days later, right
JA: Yes
JM: So you got home on a Sunday and by Thursday, he was on the outs
JA: No, he was in the same house
JM: No, by the outs, I mean he was no longer your boyfriend
JA: That's correct
JM: So you, when you decide something, you can do it if you want to, right?
JA: Yes
JM:* And in fact, with regard to, for example, with your mother, you feel you act the same way with her, ifthere’s something about that her that you don’t like, you act immediately on it, don’t you?
JA:* Yes
JM:* And in fact, your talking about moving, she assisted you, or attempted to assist you in moving, right?
JA:* Yes
JM:* She came out in May, right
JA:* I believe it was
JM:* I’m sorry, I apologize.* She came out in March, didn’t she?
JA:* It was late March or early April
JM:* Didn’t she come out on Sunday, March 20th of 2008?
JA:* Sunday doesn’t sound right
JM:* But she came out in March, didn’t she
JA:* yes, it might have been late March or early April
JM:* And she came out and when she came out and she was acting in a way that you didn’t like the way she acted, right?
JA:* during part of it, yes
JM:* She was making stupid excuses, wasn’t she
JA:* Yes, about her flight
JM:* Right, and she was also being negative, right?
JA:* Yes
JM:* And because of that, you made sure that she went back, didn’t you?
JA:* No, that was her decision
JM:* So it was her decision after you indicated to her that she was making stupid excuses and that she was acting negative and you didn’t need it around you, right
JA:* Yes
JM:* So in your personal life, it appears in these examples that we’ve been talking about if you feel something, again just based on these examples, it looks like you are able to act upon them very quickly
JA:* Depends on the individual
JM:* Well, I’m saying in these examples that we’ve talked about, it appears that you act very quickly, right?
JA:* In those examples
JM:* And so there’s an indication somehow when we were talking about Mr. Burns also that you acted quickly with regard to him to right?
JA: What do you mean quickly?
JM:* Well you and he are talking on the telephone, correct at some point during the beginnings of your relationship, right?
JA:* Yes
JM:* And then you and he are starting to text message each other, right?
JA:* Yes
JM:* You, almost, very quickly decide to make plans to meet him, right?
JA:* After a few months
JM:* Then you then decide to drive out there and you actually do go out to the West Jordan area, don’t you?
JA:* Yes
JM:* And on the very first date, first time that you’ve been alone, you very quickly are having some sort of sexual contact with him, right?
JA:* No, there was no sexual contact.
JM:* So your saying that based on your being on top of him and kissing him that is not sexual contact?
JA: I was on top of him sleeping
JM:* Pardon
JA:* When I was on top of him, we were sleeping
JM:* But you woke up and you kissed him didn’t you?
JA:* After I moved and he adjusted himself
JM:* So you’re saying he adjusted himself, you didn’t help with any of the
JA:* I assisted him, yeah
JM:* And basically that means putting your hands on his buttock area, right?
JA:* No it was his shoulders
JM:* So that additionally with regard to Mr. Alexander, you broke up with him at the end in June of 2007, right?
JA:* Yes
JM:* You were able to do that also, correct?
JA:* And you did it because what of you believe are trust issues, right
JM:* Let’s take a look at what you said are trust issues.* This is exhibit 479
Sidebar

JM:* I move for the admission of exhibit 479
Judge:* 479 is admitted.
*
48 hours Interview: Were you happy with your relationship with Travis?Yes, I was, during the relationship I was very happy, it wasn’t always perfect.* Our relationship was by no means perfect.* Just knowing him has taught me a lot. (This plays twice)
KN:* Objection, your honor, can we approach?
Judge: You may
Sidebar
(36:03)
JM: You do indicate that he's an amazing person, right?
JA:* Yes
JM:* And part of what's we’ve been told about in this particular proceeding is that you’ve been telling us about nothing but negatives, correct?
JA: that’s all I was asked about, that's correct.
JM: Well, the answer is yes, that's all you've been telling us about, but he is an individual that was somebody that you loved, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: and according to you he was an amazing person, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And with regard to this amazing person, one of the things we know is that when you broke up, you broke up because you believed he was unfaithful to you, right?
JA: I knew he was
JM: Alright, and you knew that he was being unfaithful because you did, when he was asleep you went into his telephone, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And you looked at what was on his telephone, right?
JA: That's right
JM: And you really didn't have permission to do that, did you?
JA: No, I didn't, actually, I did, sorry, I did
JM: Oh, while he was asleep, you had permission to go in there?
JA: He said offered, here look at my phone, and I said no
JM: So right before he went to sleep, he said to you, here have my phone, look at it?
JA: It wasn't right before he went to sleep
JM: Ma'am, right before he went to sleep did he say to you, here, take my phone?
JA: No, not before he went to sleep
JM: So, you decided though to go and look at that phone, right?
JA: Yes
JM: and when you looked at that phone, you believed you saw some text messages that were inappropriate
JA: I did see some text messages that were inappropriate.
JM: That you believed were inappropriate, right
JA: They were inappropriate
JM: A nd in fact these text messages involved some individauls, some females, right?
JA: I assumed they were females, there were no names attached to the phone numbers.
JM: Alright so it could have been guys, is that what you're saying?
JA: Not likely, but I guess it was possible
JM: So you looked at these text messages and according to you the subject matter is what disturbed you, right?
JA: Yes
JM: He was talking about meeting people, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And in fact what you told us was that one of the persons was married right
JA: No, that was his MySpace
JM: Oh, okay so that was something that occurred back at the time that you and he first started to date, right?
JA: No, prior to that
JM: right
JA: It occurred a few months, prior
JM: So the messages, what did they say? I'm not saying specifically, but what was the subject matter?
JA: Umm, things referencing specific sexual body parts interacting with other sexual body parts and things like that and plans in the making of meeting up at hotel rooms or his house, things like that
JM: And you were very offended by that, right
JA: Yeah, offended would be accurate.
JM: And you were so offended that you still decided to go on vacation with him, right
JA: That wasn't why
JM: You were very offended, you just told us that, right?
JA: I didn't say very, but yes I was offended
JM: You were offended, right
JA: I was hurt
JM: Ma'am didn't you just say you were offended?
JA: Offended would be accurate
JM: And didn't you just said it was a good word, right?
JA: Yeah, there's many descriptors to use
JM: But you just said just now it was a good word, right
JA: Umm, yes, I think
JM: You think, you mean you don’t remember what you just said
JA: I don't know
JM: What do you mean you just said offended was a good word and when I used it, then you took issue with it. Is it a good word or is it not a good word?
JA: It depends on how you used it
JM: Well I'm saying you're the one, I asked you the question you were offended and you said offended is a good word, right? That's what you said, right
JA: I think so, yes
JM: Well, you think so means you don't know, right
JA: I don't know
JM: Well this just happened, how is it that you’re not remembering what your saying
JA: Cuz you’re making my brain scramble
JM: I'm again making your brain scramble, so in this particular case, the problem is not you, it's the question being posed by the prosecutor?
JA: no, not the questions
JM: Yes or no, yes or no
JA: I was saying no and you interrupted me
JM: So in this case you’re looking to point the finger at somebody else again, right?
JA: No, it's my fault
JM: well, you're saying it's the prosecutor that's asking you the questions and that's creating a problem for you?
JA: That's not what I said
JM: Well you said it’s the way you’re posing the questions, you just said that, right?
JA: I don't know
JM: You don’t know what you just said, ma’am
KN: Objection, argumentative
Judge: Overruled
JA: I don't know
JM: Didn’t it just happen?
JA: Yes
JM: So how is it even if it just happened you can't even remember what you just said?
JA: I think I’m more focused on your posture and your tone and your anger so it's hard to process the question.
JM: So the answer is, it's again the prosecutor's fault because you perceive him to be angry, right?
JA: It’s not your fault
JM: Is somebody asking you whose fault it is?
JA: You did
JM: well, You seem to be pointing it at the prosecutor, right, so you believe that the reason you can’t be effective on the witness stand is because someone is asking you questions in a way you don't like
JA: I think that was a compound question
JM: Ma'am isn't it true that you are having problems on the witness stand because of the way the prosecutor is asking the questions, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And so according to you the truth with regard to this issue depends on the style that is being used, that's what the truth means, right
KN:* Objection, argumentative. Mischaracterizing her testimony and it’s continued badgering
Judge:* Sustained, rephrase
JM: You're saying you're having trouble telling us, you're telling us the truth from the witness stand, right?
JA: Absolutely
JM: You're telling us you're having problems telling us the truth because of the way the questions are being posed, right?
KN: Objection mischaracterizes her testimony
Judge: Overruled
JA: I have no problem telling the truth
JM: I’m not asking you if you have a problem telling the truth, but what you seem to be telling us now is that you have problems telling us the truth now because of the way the questions are being phrased, right?
JA: That's not right
JM: So it’s something else then, that the prosecutor is doing that’s borthering you, right?
JA: I don’t know how to answer that
JM: Well, it's something else that the prosecutor is doing that's stopping you from telling the truth, right?
JA: I don’t know how to answer that
JM: Why don't you know how to answer that, you're the one that brough it up, you're the one that pointed the finger at the prosecutor, right?
KN: Objection
Judge:* Sustained
JM: Ma’am you’re the one that complained about the way the questions were being posed to you by the prosecutor just now, didn't you?
JA: Yes
JM: And you indicated that the prosecutor's posture was aggressive
JA: I didn't say aggressive
JM: You indicated posture, though, right
JA: Yes
JM: And there was something with the prosecutor's posture that you have problems with, right?
JA: I don't know
JM: Well, no you're the one that used the word posture then, you're the one that said you have problems with the posture. So is it posture
JA: It's not the problem with your posture, it's that it creates a problem with me processing what you're saying because I'm focused more on your posture than the content of your question.
JM: So are you saying you need to take more time between questions, to answer them, is that what you're saying
JA: Umm, sometimes
JM: Well, no, is that what's going to help your memory to take more time between the questions?
JA: Sometimes
KN: Objection, asked and answered
Judge: overruled
JM: What's your answer?
JA: Sometimes
JM: Ma'am with regard to this issue of posturing, do you remember back on July 15 of 2008 when Det. Flores interviewed you, do you remember that?
JA: Yes
JM: And he was sitting down, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And his voice was very quiet, right?
JA: Um, yes
JM: And when he was asking these questions and his voice was very quiet, you still lied to him, didn't you?
JA: Yes
JM: So it isn't that it has anything to do with the volume of the question then, does it as to whether or not you'll tell the truth?
JA: I’ll always tell the truth
JM: Oh, so you'll always tell the truth so you told the truth to Det. Flores back then
JA: I mean here under oath?
JM: You said Ialways will tell the truth, right?
JA: I said I will always tell the truth
JM: Right, isn't it true you did not tell the truth to Det. Flores?
JA: That's true
*JM: And he had posture or a demeanor where he was sitting back, right?
JA:He was leaning forward
JM: He was sitting down
JA: Yes
JM: He wasn’t standing
JA: Not for most of the interview
JM: No he wasn't was he. And the reason you are having problems now, is it because the prosecutor's standing?
JA: It’s my own internal mental problem, I think.
JM: Well if it’s your own internal mental problem that means that what you are telling us are inaccurate answers.
JA: No
KN:* Objection, not telling the truth is mischaracterizing her testimony and it’s continued badgering
Judge:* Sustained as to the first objection, rephrase
JM:* Here are you having trouble because the prosecutor is standing?
JA:* having trouble what?
JM:* What are we talking about here?
JA:* You’re talking about the truth, I’m talking about memory.
JM:* Aren’t we talking about answering the questions?
JA:* You keep saying truth, I’m referring to memory
JM:* Aren’t we, though, basically talking about you answering the questions?
JA:* Both regarding answering questions
JM:* right, isn’t that what we’re talking about?
JA:* Umm, you keep mentioning truth, I’m not having a problem telling the truth.
JM:* Alrgiht, but you are having problems answering my questions, right?
JA:* I don’t have a problem answering your question if I remember the answer
JM:* But you just told us that you’re having problems answering the question because of the prosecutor’s posture; didn’t you tell us that?
JA:* That’s not the direct reason, but that’s a trigger.
JM:* Well that’s what you told us just now, right?
JA:* Something to that effect
JM:* Right, and so would you like it if I stood over here like your counsel is asking you the questions, would that make you feel more comfortable?
KN:* Objection, your honor, improper comment on counsel
Judge: Sustained,* rephrase
JM:* Would it make you feel more comfortable if I stood over here and used the lectern, ma’am
KN:* why don’t we approach before he does the same thing.
Judge:* Mr. Nurmi, are you asking to approach with an objection?*
KN:* Yes
Judge: You may approach.
*
Sidebar
JM:* Would you be comfortable if I stood back here?
JA:* where you stand won’t make a difference to my comfort
JM:* So, what you’re saying is, that you’re hampered in your ability to answer the questions, irrespective of where the prosecutor is, correct?
JA:* At times, yes.
JM:* Well, that’s not how you phrased it initially.* You’re saying that you are having problems answering the questions because of the prosecutor’s posture, right?
JA:* In that moment, that was correct
JM:* So it changes from moment to moment then
JA:* Sometimes, yeah
JM:* So in this case it changes from moment to moment depending on what the prosecutor is doing, right?
JA:* It’s not necessarily just dependent on the prosecutor
JM:* With regard to your conversation with Det. Flores on July 16th of 2008, he was pretty much sitting down in a chair back then wasn’t he?
JA:* Yes
JM:* And yet you lied to him then, right
JA:* yes
JM:* So it really doesn’t have to do anything with the posture or where the person is sitting whether or not he's sitting in terms if whether or not you lie, right?
KN:* Objection, over and over again he’s mischaracterizing her testimony.* She said it deals with memory, not telling the truth.
Judge:* Objection overruled, you may answer the question
JA: What was the question?
JM:* Mike could you please read it to her?
Court reporter, Mike:* Question:* So it really doesn’t have anything to do with the posture or whether the prtdon is sitting in terms of whether or not you’ll lie.
JA:* Umm, well sometimes, I lied to Travis based on his posture.
JM:* Objection she’s not responding to the question
Judge: ask another question
JM:* You understand we aren’t talking about right now about your relationship with Mr. Alexander, you understand that, right?
JA:* I understand we got very off track, yes
JM: Pardon
JA: I understand we got very off track the subject of my relationship with
JM: I'm asking you whether or not you undertsand that this line of questioning is not about your relationship with Mr. Alexander, do you understand that?
JA: I answered yes
JM: And this is about your ability to answer questions in the court room, right?
JA: Yes
JM: What we’re trying to determine, is what is it will allow you to answer the questions from the witness stand from the prosecutor
JA: Umm, I thought you said whether or not it's the truth it's not about, which part are you talking about?
JM: Ma’am, Mike will you please reread the question again.
Mike: What we're trying to determing also what it is that will allow you to answer questions from the witness stand from the prosecutor
JA: I don’t understand that question
KN: objection the questions not
Judge: restate the question
JM: Ma'am, you understand that we want your answers, whatever they may be, you understand that, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And you understand that we need as complete answers as possible, you understand that, right?
JA: No, that's not the impression I'm getting from you
JM: So the question is, so to you, unless you’re allowed to ramble on, then you’re being restricted, right
JA: No that’s not correct
JM: Well, in this particular case, you’re saying the prosecutor is cutting you off, right?
JA: In this particular case as in this cross-examination, yes
JM: And you’re saying that you aren’t getting a change to answer the questions fully, right?
JA: That's right

 

[minor4th]

Originally posted by ingra1327

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - *graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**

Jodi Arias Day 23 Cross Examination Morning part 3


JM: Well let's do this. With regard to you and Mr. Alexander, one of the things that happened was that you and he broke up, you understand that, back on June 29 of 2007
JA: Yes
JM: and the person that did the breaking up was you, right
JA: Yes
JM: And the reason you broke up with him, is because you snooped into his telephone, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And you did not have his permission on the day that you did it to go into his telephone, right?
JA: Not exclusively
JM: When you say not exclusively it means that you did have his permission to go into his phone, you understand what you're saying, right?
JA: Yes, at one point, I did.
JM: I’m not asking at one point, I’m asking on the day that you did it, did you have permission whether written or oral to go into his telephone and look at his text messages
JA: Um, he's told me to look at his phone, so I guess it's just a matter of interpretation
JM: Ma'am, ma'am, that day before he went to sleep did he tell you it was okay to look at his telephone
JA: Not that day
JM: And so you took it upon yourself to look into that telephone, right
JA: Yes
JM: And that’s when you saw these text messages, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And that what upset you
JA: Yes
JM: And as a result of that, you made a decision that the relationship was over, right
JA: Not right that day
JM: At some point you did make the decision that the relationship was over, right?
JA: Yes
JM: But you were upset that he was having these conversations about bodily parts with these other individuals via text message, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And you were so upset you still decided to go on vacation with him, right?
JA: That's not why
JM: Well, you still went on vacation with him even though you had this information, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And you went to New York
JA: We did go to New York, yes
JM: Pardon
JA: Yes we did went to New York
JM: And then you drove, or went to a PPL conference also, right?
JA: No it was a retreat
JM: Then you went to Huntington Beach, right
JA: That was the retreat I was referring to
JM: So you went to Huntington Beach after that, right
JA: Yes
JM: And you stayed wit him, right
JA: Yes
JM: You engaged in sexual conduct with him, right
JA: Yes
JM:* Even though you were very upset with what you knew
JA:* Yes
JM:* You chose to go on vacation rather than break up with him at that point, right?
JA:* Yes
JM:* And so the way you see if it, it’s his fault, that you broke up, not yours?
KN:* Objection, mischaracterizes testimony
Judge Overruled, you may answer
JA:* His fault I broke up with him
JM:* Yes, not your fault
JA: Well it was my choice so I don't know what you mean by fault
JM: Well, we’re talking about who’s to blame, that's what fault means, right?
JA: For the breakup
JM: For the breakup, that's what we're talking about, right.
JA: I guess we each had a part in it
JM: Well no,you’re saying it’s his fault because he was doing these things with other women, right?
JA: His fault for the breakup because he was doing things?
JM: The way you explained it was the reason you broke up was because of something he did, right
JA: That’s what motivated me to break up with him
JM: So what you did, the fact that you went behind his back *to look at his telephone had nothing to do with the breakup, right
JA: That was also one of the reasons
JM: So you believe that you were to blame for going behind his back
JA: Yes
JM: That was a dishonest thing to do, right
JA: Yes, I felt very badly
JM: Did I ask you whether or not you felt bad about it
JA: No
JM: You say that you feel bad about it, but haven’t you done similar stuff in the past
JA: Umm, yes
JM: I mean you did it to Bobby Juarez, right
JA: Yes
JM: You went behind his back and looked at the computer, right
JA: Yes
JM: you went behind Matt McCartney’s back and you went and talked to Bianca, right?
JA: I didn’t go behind his back
JM: You told him you were going to Bianca
JA: I would have
JM: Ma’am the question is did you go to him before you went to talked to Bianca
JA:* No he wasn’t available
JM: Did you talk to him before you went to talk to Bianca
JA: No, he wasn't available
JM: Ma’am, you said he wasn’t available, could you have waited until he was available to see if it was okay to talk to Bianca, you could have?
JA: Yeah, but I would have been miserable for several days
JM: Oh, so it's all about you then, right
KN: Objection, argumentative
Judge: Sustained
JM: You could have waited, right, but you didn't want to
JA: I chose not to
JM: That's right because you would have been miserable, right
JA: Yes
JM: And you didn't want to be miserable, right
JA: That’s right
JM: And so this dishonesty that you've said involved Mr. Alexander you have at least on two prevoius occasions engaged in the same sort of dishonesty, right?
JA: Um yes
JM: And with regard to
JA: I take that back, I don’t think it was dishonest, to go talk to Bianca, so I guess one time because I do believe that the emails with Bobby was dishonest.
JM: But you did engage with regard to Mr. McCartney that he did not know about before you did it, right?
JA: Um with regard to the conduct that I didn’t know about
JM: No, I'm asking, the fact that you went to see Bianca, isn’t it true that Mr. McCartney did not know about it before you went to talk to her, right
JA: That's right
JM: So that was behind his back, wasn't it
JA: No, because that implies sneaking around
JM: That was because why?
JA: To me that implies sneaking around and I wasn't doing that, I wasopen and direct about it
JM: You weren't sneaking around you just didn't tell him about, right, that's the distinction you're trying to draw here?
JA: Only because he wasn’t available
JM: But that’s the distinction you’re drawing here is that you were not sneaking around, right?
KN: Objection asked and answered
Judge: Overruled
JM: Right?
JA: Yes, it was not dishonest.
JM: With regard to Mr. Alexander, looking at his telephone, or viewing his text messages wasn’t the only time that you actually went and looked at one of his communication mediums, right?
JA: Yes
JM: In fact you and he became an item in February of 2007
JA : Yes
JM: That's when you made it official, you were living in palm desert
JA: Uh, yes
JM: And you were living in Palm Desert, but at some point you were able to look at his computer , right?
JA: Yes
JM: And you looked at his computer at his house in Mesa, right
JA: Yes
JM: And you looked at his computer and you started to look at some of the items what in My Space, right?
JA: Yes, his MySpace emails
JM: Pardon
JA: His My Space emails
JM: But it was in My Space, right
JA: Yes
JM And you looked at some of the emails that were there, right
JA: Yes, I did
JM: And even though you didn’t have permission to look at those emails, did you
JA: I don't know it was kind of a trade-off cuz he did it to me, too
JM: I’m not asking if he did it to you, am I?
JA: No
JM: I’m asking if you had permission to go into his My space to look at his emails?
JA: No, I guess I didn't
JM: And so again there is this conduct, this dishonest conduct on your pasrt, right
JA: yes
JM: When you went and you looked at his emails and you saw some emails between him and at least two females, right?
JA: Yes
JM: One of them involved a, the, New Years eve meeting, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And that upset you, right?
JA:* Um, not really
JA:* Well it didn’t make me happy, right?
JA* It didn’t thrill me
JM:* Pardon
JA:* It didn’t thrill me
JM:* So, if it didn’t thrill you that’s a way of saying it didn’t make you happy, right?
KN: Objection,
Judge, overruled
JA* That’s right
JM: and, but that happened before you and he were officially dating, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And so that really shouldn’t have had any bearing on how you felt
JA: That wasn't the part that bothered me
JM: I understand that, Okay, tell me the part that bothered you
JA: He lied to me about what it was about
JM: He lied to you about what it was about after you confronted him, right
JA: No, he called me, preemptively, me
JM: Ma’am you looked at his My Space email, right?
JA: yes
JM: Then you and he had a conversation about it
JA: Yes
JM: So it wasn’t he ha d aconversation about it before you looked at his My space email
JA: About the messages, yes we did
JM: So he talked to you about them before?
JA: Yes
JM: If he talked to you about them before then why were you upset
JA: Because I found out that what he said was false
JM: Oh, I see, He lied to you, then right?
JA:* About the messages
JM: And what you were doing is, you were sort of checking up on him, right?
JA: Yeah, I was
JM:* And that’s because you wanted to see whether or not he was cheating on you, right?
JA: No, it wouldn’t have been cheating in December because we weren’t together yet, I wanted to see if it was accurate.
JM: Okay so nything that he was telling you, you would want to check to make sure he was being truthful to you, right?
JA: That’s not right not anything.
JM: Things having to do with relationshps involving other women, right?
JA: Um, Sometimes
JM: In this case that’s what you did, right?
JA: This thing, particularly, yes
JM: And this is the other one that involved an email that you were particularly offended by, right
JA: The other email
JM: Yes
JA: Yes
JM: And you were particularly offended, because you said that the woman who was involved there was married, right?
JA: Yes, she was married
JM: What was the woman’s name
JA: I don’t want to destroy anyone’s marriage
JM: So what was the woman's name
JA: Shannon C-P
JM: And you believe she was married and you believed they were doing something they shouldn't have been doing, right?
JA:* She was married, and by LDS standards what they were talking about was very inappropriate
JM:* All they were doing was talking, right?
JA:* They were joking about getting together for a sexual liason
JM: they were joking about it, right?
JA: I hope it was joking
JM: Didn’t you just say they were joking about i?

KN: Objection, as to whether or not they were joking
Judge: Overruled, you may answer
JA: Umm, he was joking about his wet dream with her
JM: Ma’am, isn’t it true that you they were joking
JA: I did say that, yes
JM: And the reason you said that is because you believe it right?
JA: Because he told me later after I confronted him at the time I didn't know
JM: Ma'am you believe it, that's why you said it
JA: When I sit here today, I believe it somewhat
JM: And so you believe they were joking abou it, right?
JA: At the time I did not but now, I think, if what he told me can be belived, they were joking
JM: Ma'am, isn’t it true you just said they were joking about it, right
JA: Yes
JM: And that’s what you believe, right
JA: That’s what I’d like to believe
JM: Well, you testifying to the truth, right
JA: Yes
JM: And you’re saying they were joking about it, right
JA: That’s the third time you’ve asked me about it and the answer is yes.
JM: And so if they were joking about it, what was the problem
JM: By LDS standards you aren't supposed to have conversations of that nature with someone else's spouse.
JM: Okay, And that’s because you are familiar with the code of conduct involving sexuality in the Mormon church, right?
JA: I am now, yes
JM: Well, no, you were familiar with it back in February of 2007 when you looked at his My Space account, right?
JA: Not all of it, but regarding spouses and their behaviors and how to interact with people that were married, yes.
JM: You were familiar enough to pass judgement on what was going on as it applies to the Mormon faith, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And this is knowledge that you had gained as part of your learning about the Mormon church, right?
JA: Umm, well another Mormon had explained it to me, so yes
JM: So yes, you did learn it, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And you knew that joking about those things was not something that was viewed favorably by the Mormon church, right
JA: that's right
JM: But you believe that just joking about something, you knew about that, you knew that that's not something that was favored by the Mormon church, right?
JA: That's right
JM: But in terms of whether or not sexual intercourse is concerned, you're telling us that at that point you didn’t know if it was acceptable or not in the Mormon church?
JA: I'm not saying that
JM: So at that time you did know then that sexual intimacy, whatever form they may be, was unacceptable in the Mormon church, right?
JA: I'm not saying that either
JM: Well, ma'am did you know back in February of 2007 that having oral intercourse was against the teachings of the Mormon faith?
JA: Not at that time, no, I did not know
JM: So you believe that j,ust kidding about is against the Mormon religion, but not oral intercourse? Is that what you're saying?
JA: With a spouse that’s married in the temple, yes
JM: You believed that oral intercourse was okay back in 2007 but not kidding between two people, that was not okay?
JA: Yes that’s what I was taught
JM: Don’t they have brochures that they hand out
JA: Yes
JM: And these brochures include talking about sexual contact, right?
JA: Yes
JM: You were here when Desiree Freeman testified, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And one of the things that we know is even laying or touching, even laying on someone with their close on that's against the Mormon teachings, right?
JA: That is right
JM: And in fact that’s something you did with Ryan Burns, you layed on top of him with your clothes on, right?
JA: Yes I did
JM: And that’s again the Mormon teachings isn't it?
JA: It is
JM: And you knew that at the time you did that
JA: I did not
JM: So you gained this knowledge after being with Ryan Burns
JA: After, well after, like about a year
JM: This is something that is, you never thought to talk to anybody about how far you could go?
JA: I did, I talked to Rachel
JM: I’m asking whether or not, well Rachel isn’t somebody that’s the end-all in the Mormon church, right?
JA: I don't think anybody would be
JM: well the bishop is a little more important wouldn’t you agree?
JA: Yes
JM: And if you had any questions about it you could go talk to the bishop, right?
JA: I guess technically, but I wouldn't be comfortable
JM: Well, you say technically and you wouldn't be comfortable, you could go talk to the bishop, right
JA: Yes,
JM: In fact you went to Bishop Layton and talked about Tavis’s Alexander's killing, right?
JA: No
JM: well you called him, right?
JA: Yes
JM: So you had no problem doing that, right?
JA: no
JM: Did you ever have a desire on your own to go and find out what the Mormon church allowed in terms of sexual conduct?
JA: Yes
JM: Why didn't you do it?
JA: I did
JM Pardon
JA: I did
JM: So did you go to a bishop,
JA: I went to Rachel
JM: When did you go to see Rachel about this issue involving sexual contact?
JA: It would have been August 2007 after Travis and I went all the way consensually and we were both awake
JM: so you went to see her in August of 2007 and you were converted or were baptized in Novemenber of 2006
JA: Yes
JM: And you and Mr. Alexander were engaged in sexual contact between that time in November 2006 until what, August of 2007 is that what it is?
JA: that whole time
JM: And during that whole time period, it never occurred to you to try to find out what the Mormon church allowed?
JA: I did try to find out
JM: Did you go to a bisop?
JA: No definitely not a bishop
JM: Did you try to read any of the literature that they had
JA: I've read some literature, but not the pamphlet that you're reading from
JM: There is a pamphlet that they have, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And this pamphlet is abailable to everyone, right?
JA: Yes
JM: In fact you were here when I was looking at it and I was questioning Desiree Freeman, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And this pamphlet is free
JA: Yes
JM: And it lays out the guidelinesfor what is acceptable sexual conduct or not, right?
JA: And isn't it true that that pamphlet doesn't include anything about joking involving married people, does it?
JM: It does include things that you are not to engage in oral intercourse, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And any kind of intercourse
JA: Yes, it says all sexual relations
JM: And in fact it even talks about certain types of music that shouldn't be listened to
JA: I don't recall that part, but that sounds right
JM: And it also talks about what kind of videos or what kind of movies it should be looked at?
JA: Yes
JM: And you’re saying that throughout the whole time between November of 2006 and August of 2007 you did not have the opportunity to review any of this and know any of it.
JA: Well, I didn’t know it existed, so I guess then I wouldn't have had the opportunity, but if I'd known it was there, I would have had the opportunity.
JM: Did you think that perhaps it would have been a good idea to go ask if these materials were available?
JA: No, I did not
KN: Objection
Judge: Rephrase
JM: You were conflicted by the fact you saw Mr. Alexander joking with somebody who you believed to be marrie, right
JA: She was married, yes
JM: You were conflicted because Mr. Alexander was joking with somebody that was married, okay better?
JA: Yes
JM: Although they were just, they had never had any sexual contact
KN: Objection, she doesn't know
Judge: rephrase
JM: At that point, that was my belief
JA: Yet, that’s just people talking, yet you have no problems engaging in all this conduct that you told us about during direct examination.* You have no problem engaging in that conduct, yet you are judging someone just for talking
KN: Objection she never said she had a problem with it
Judge: Restate the question
JM: Well maam you never saw counseling from a Mormon, whether it's a male or a female
JA: I did, but not during that time period
JM: During the time period we’re talking about you did not solicit aid from anybody in the Mormon church about what was the proper way to proceed
JA: That's right
JM: And the reason you didn't was because it was enjoyable
JA: No, I didn't believe I was in the wrong
JM: Well, you didn't you weren't enjoying what was going on with Mr. Alexander
JA: I did, but that's not why I didn't seek counsel
JM: In fact, the way you describe it, he's someone you can't stay away from sexually, right?
JA: Um, yes
JM: And he described you as his kyrptonite, right
JA: Yes
JM: And so it was a situation that you were mutually attracted, right
JA: Yes
JM: And so the is the reason that you were being so judgement because you were just plain jealous and that was what was going on?
JA: No, I was considering af uture with him and if was acting that way towards someone else's wife, I wondered how he'd treat me as a wife
JM: So if you were worried about how he would treat you as a wife, why didn't you just leave him?
JA: Because I wanted to give him an opportunity to explain
JM: And you gave him the opportunity to explain and it sounds like you believed him, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And as a result of you believing him, you decided to continue in this sexual relationship, right?
JA: Yes

 

[minor4th]

Originally posted by ingra1327

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - *graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**

Afternoon

JM: there were messages on there, correct, do you remember that?
JA: Travis's phone and my space, umm yes
JM: Ahe messages could be characterized as flirtatious, right?
JA: Flirtatious and sexual.
JM: And you didn't have a problem with that, did you?
JA: What do you mean
JM: Well, let's take a look at another exhibit. I move for the admission of exhibit 480.
KN: I'm sorry what number, 480, no objections
Judge: 480 is admitted
48 hours Video: I only have a few more questions, where I want to go next is, was Travis a flirt with other people? Umm, yes, and he was not secretive about it, I wasn't aware of that aspect right away when I first met him at the MGM Grand, he was very cool, calm um, and even there were people that made comments saying why was he on such good behavior that night and he said that he sort of, looking back on that he said he kind of had an agenda and because I came off as a calm person her tried to mirror and match, but by nature, he's very open, very outgoing, very flirtatious, not that that's a bad thing at all.

JM: And so even though you saw these messages on his phone, even though they were flirtatious, you still decided to break up with him, right?
JA: not for that reason
JM: Isn't that what you told us before the break that that was the reason that you broke up with him because of these text messages?
JA: No, it's because he was sleeping with a bunch of people.
JM: You believe that he was sleeping with a lot of people, right?
JA: Yes
JM: Do you remember telling us before the break that it was this text message, or during direct examination that it was these text messages that were the reason for the break up
JA: Right
JM: You did say that, right?
JA: Yes
JM: Okay. You and Mr. Alexander went to Sedona and the Grand Canyon with Desiree Freeman and Dan Freeman, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: Take a look at exhibit 481 and see if you recognize the people there and the occasion.
JA: Yes, I don't see a date, but I recognize it
JM: You're in that photograph, correct
JA: Yes
JM: And you recognize the other people, correct
JA: Yes
JM: And it's a trip, the picture is a photograph taken on your trip to Sedona, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: And generally speaking when did you go to Sedona?
JA: I believe it was April 2007
JM: And this is a true and accurate depiction of the four of you on this trip to Sedona, correct.
JA: Yes
JM: Move for the admission of 481
KN: No objections
Judge: 481 is admitted
JM: This is a photograph that was taken in Sedona, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: And it shows your height relative to Mr. Alexander, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: Um, you're approximately the same height as he is, correct?
JA: Well, he's three inches taller
JM: Well, this shows it right here correct?
KN: Objection, doesn't know where they'restanding or shoes they're wearing
Judge: Sustained
JM: Ma'am this shows you on that particular day with Mr. Alexander, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: You have no reason to believe that he was that you were standing on a rock and he wasn't, right?
JA: Not that I recall
JM: And with regard to Mr. Freeman, do you have a reason to believe that he was standing on a rock?
JA: No
JM: And with regard Desiree Freeman, any reason to believe or to think that she was standing on a rock.
JA: No
JM: That shows the relative heights, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: Ma'am one of the things that we know about Mr. Alexander was how his ambiancee was in a room, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: Let me show you another exhibit. I move for the admission of exhibit 482
Judge: Any objection
KN: Not that we haven't previously lodged
Judge: 482 is admitted
48 hours video: “Yes and that's the other thing, I really, when you asked me if I was angry or outraged, I'm more angry and outraged that his life was taken. And that he has so much potential, that he had so many things and projects that he was working on that aren't some will get completed and some will never get completed. Um, he was a light and he had so many, he brightened a room when he walked in. He literally brightened a room. Like you could just tell you could tell when Travis was whether you were no matter what direction you were looking at you could tell when Travis showed up because the laughter got louder, and you know the conversation got happier and just the whole energy of the room changed. And you know, for someone like that, it almost seems like the world is a darker place now that he's not in it anymore. So I'm really angry about that. I can't imagine what his family's going through. I love my brother so much and I know that he had a lot of siblings and I just cannot imagine what it would be like to get a phone call to hear that something happened to one of my brothers.”

JM: According to that particular excerpt in your statement, he was a great guy, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And he was a great guy, it appears to everybody who seemed to come in contact with him.
JA: Yes, it appears
JM: And nowhere during this conversation that you had with the people on 48 hours did you metion rhia issue of masturbating to pictures.
JA: Oh definitely not
JM: So the answer is not, correct?
JA: That's correct.
JM: And it wasn't like he didn't do good things for you, he actually did a lot of, or some things that were very nice, didn't he
JA: Yes, wonderful things
JM: Let's have you listen to us tell us about what a wonderful thing. I move for the admission of exhibit 483.
KN: No objection
Judge: Exhibit 483 is admitted.
48 hoursvideo: “Um, I just personally see any motive for myself to ever want to do this, inflict this kind of pain on Travis, someone who has been so generous, someone who's been so kind and someone who's opened up his home, opened up his refrigerator on many times when I didn't have enough money to go to the grocery store and fill up my own fridge. There are just so many things he did, little things, I came home from the airport once he let me park my car in his garage so that it was safe while I was gone and I showed up to get my car and there was this bag of on the hood that said Cinnabon and he knew that I liked Cinncabon and I remember calling him before I flew out, I was flying out of Salt Lake an din the Phoenix airport there's a Cinnabon stand and I always get one before I go on my flight and I remember lamenting a little bit saying Cinnabon's gonna be closed when I get home cuz it's gonna be late and he went out the the mall and got me cinnabon so I'd be able to have that when I got home. It's just little things that he did like that, thoughtful things, as well he looked up a whole recipe online and printed it out on pink paper and folded it up in there and put it in there with that and he gave me a ten dollar gift card for Cinnabon. So it's like just little things like those were just, that's just one example of so many little things that he's always done for me and not just me but for everyone I knew.”
JM: And in fact, ma'am, after you moved, you actually thanked him for everything he had done for you, right?
JA: Yes
JM: Let's take a look at an exhibit. Take a look at exhibit 484. I move for the admission of exhibit 484.
KN: No objection
Judge: What did you say, no objection
KN: No objection
Judge: Exhibit 484 is admitted
JM: This is after you had moved, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: This is after you were in Yreka, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: This was when you in Yreka doing your day-to-day activities, whatever they may be, correct?
JA: yes
JM: When you were not seeing Mr. Alexander on a daily basis, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: This is after you had broken up with him, right?
JA: Yes
JM: This was during a time when, according to you the fog had lifted, right?
JA: Yes
JM: This was after the time that you claimed there was some physical violence, you wrote this, right?
JA: That's right
JM: And we agree that the time was seven hours ahead, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: and so it's on April 18th that you write this and you say “Travis thank you for being such an amazing friend. You are a rock, a light, and an inspiration. I love you dearly. You were still in love with him, weren't you?
JA: I wouldn't say I was in love with him, but I loved him very much
JM: So when you say you love him dearly, that doesn't mean that you have any physical attraction to him, you just love him like a friend, correct?
JA: That's not true
JM: Well, when you say you love him dearly is that the same as saying the way you love Matt McCartney or is it a little bit different
JA: Um, it's similar, but there was no more, no longer a sexual attraction with Matt McCartney.
JM: but there was this sexual attraction with Mr. Alexander, correct?
JA: Correct
JM: You indicate that you appreciate all of the ways you've gone out of your way for me, you indicate that, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And then you say thank you, thank you, thank you, right?
JA: Yes
JM: This is not in line with the person we've been talking about, is it
JA: Um, yeah, it is it's very consistent with how he was
JM: Well you've been telling us before that he was mean, remember that?
JA: Yes, he was
JM: And that in addition to being mean, he physically abused you, right?
JA: Yes he did
JM: And that he would raise his voice to you, right?
JA: Yes he did
JM: Yet once you're free of him, and after the fog has lifted, you're thanking him and telling him what an inspiration he is, right?
JA: Yes
JM: That's sort of, the way that is projected, doesn't seem to correspond, does it?
KN: Objective, argumentative
Judge: sustained
JM: You've given us two versions, correct?
JA: Of what?
JM: of Mr. Alexander
KN: Objection, argumentative
Judge: overruled
JA: I think I've given more than two versions
JM: Well, you've given us one where we just discussed about him being physically abusive and mean and loud to you, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: In fact before, during the trial you referenced the fact that he used to grill you, correct?
JA: Yes
JM : And yet, the writings that we have here, don't support that, specifically exhibit number 484 doesn't support what you've been telling us, does it?
KN: Objection, argumentative
Judge: Rephrase
JM: This is at odds as to what you're telling us before with Mr. Alexander, right?
KN: Objective, argumentative
Judge: Overruled, you may answer
JA: Um, with at odds with what?
JM: With Mr. Alexander's portrayal that you've wanted us to believe during direct examination.
JA: no, I believe I said during direct examination that he did many wonderful things and that he had amazing sides to him.
JM: But, you don't mention in any of these text messages for example this one here. All you can do it gush on him over him and thank him, right?
JA: Yes, he flourished on compliments
JM: Is that yes
JA: I said yes
JM: When you say that he flourished on compliments, it appears that you're saying, your only doing it and it's in an insincere fashion because you want to shower then on him just because he wants them.
JA: At times they were a little insincere that they were somewhat exaggerated, but he was a wonderful person many times.
JM: Well what your saying here, though, just this particular exhibit number 484 when you're saying or you're gushing it just appears that or you tell us that that's not true, right?
KN: Objection, argumentative
Judge: reprhase
JM: Ma'am when you say you're sending this because Mr. Alexander liked them, that's what you said right?
JA: No, I said that he flourished with compliments
JM: Alright, you used the word flourished on compliments, right
JA: Yes
JM: And if he flourished on compliments, the way it sounds is that you are not sincere about the compliment.
JA: Well, hmm, I believed he was amazing, he was a rock to me, he was a light and an inspiration at one time, I did love him dearly, I still do. And he did go out of his way for me and I wanted to express my gratitude.
JM: So with regard to this particular love, is that how you believe love should be shown as it was on the evening of June 4th 2008?
KN: Objection, argumentative
Judge: Sustained
JM: Well, ma'am, you've indicated that all of this is true, so is this one of the ones that was sincer or not?
JA: I believe I was being sincere in this one
JM: So this one you are telling the truth?
JA: Yes
JM: As part of what happened after you killed Mr. Alexander, there was a memorial service, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And you attended it, right?
JA: Yes
JM: The memorial service was in Mesa, AZ, correct
JA: Correct
JM: What time of the day was it?
JA: I don't remember
JM: Was it in the morning or the afternoon?
JA: I don't remember, it was daytime, I remember that part
JM: And many people attended, right
JA: Yes
JM: And one of the people that attended was Mimi, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: You actually went up to Mimi, correct?
JA: Yes I did
JM: So even though you say that you're shy, you're actually the person who approached her, right?
JA:Yes
JM: And you talked to her about Mr. Alexander, correct
JA: Briefly, yes
JM: So that is a yes, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And it was during this conversation that you say you first learned that he was going to Cancun with her, right?
JA: Um, I can't remember cuz another woman had told me right before, she didn't say her name, but I assumed it was probably Mimi Hall so I don't remember if Cancun was discussed.
JM: Did you speak with Mimi Hall about her going to Cancun with Mr. Alexander.
JA: I don't remember if Cancun was discussed
JM: But you could have discussed it, right?
JA: Could have, but it was very short and I don't think Cancun came up, but it might have, I don't remember that
JM: But it was at this memorial whether if was from Ms. Hall or somebody else, that you but according to you that you first learned he was going to Cancun with sombody else, rigth?
JA: Yes, well I assumed
JM: Is that a yes
JA: I assumed, I didn't, I actually learned it from Det. Flores, but I assumed because of the way a woman named Brenda told me.
JM: So what you're telling us is that at the memorial service, do you know the date that that was?
JA: I think it was June 15th,
KN: objections
Judge: Overruled
JA: I don't remember, I think I assumed it but I got solid confirmation from Det. Flores
JM: So you assumed it at the time you met Ms. Hall
JA: I'm trying to think, I think I might have spoken to Ms. Hall before Brenda came up to me
JM: What I”m asking is if you learned that Mr. Alexander was going to Cancun with Mimi Hall at this memorial service
JA: I don't know if I definitively knew it, but I was pretty sure that she was the one.
JM: Why do you say you were pretty sure, because of a conversation you had with Ms. Hall
JA: Um, because of a conversation I had with Brenda
JM: And based on the conversation with Brenda you believe that that's when you learned of Mr. Alexander going to Cancun with Mimi Hall, correct?
JA: Yes, mm hmm
JM: You and he had discussed him going to Cancun before, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And he didn't ask you to go, right?
JA: What was that?
JM: He did not ask you to go, correct?
JA: That's correct.
JM: And you knew he was going with someone, didn't you?
JA: Um, yes, well the trip allows for a second person on the ticket, so I assumed
JM: You knew he was going with somebody, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And you knew he was going with somebody back on June 2nd of 2008, right?
JA: Um, yes, I assumed it was a babysitter
JM: Well, I'm not asking you who you assumed it was, did you know back on that date that he was going to go with somebody?
JA: Yes
JM: And back on May 28th of 2008, you also knew he was going to Cancun, right?
JA: Um, yes
JM: And you knew that he was going to Cancun with somebody else?
JA: Yes
JM: And this was about the time, because of the telephone call on May 10th that he was still talking to you um about sex, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And even though he was talking to you about sex, he was actually, you knew, going to Cancun with sombody else, right
JA: Um, yes
JM: Let me show you an exhibit. And his going to Cancun with somebody else did not upset you, right?

JA: No
JM: And his going ro Cancun and not inviting you did not upset you, right?
JA: No
JM: Take a look at exhibit 485 an see if you recognize this
JA: Yes
JM: This is actually a writing by you, correct?
JA: correct
JM: and it was submitted at the time of the memorial service, right?

JA: Yes
JM: And how did it work, was there a page there that you signed, how did it work?
JA: There was a photo album how I remember it with a lot of blank paper around the different photos so that people could leave comments.
JM: You actually brought the photo that was attached to this, right?
JA: Um, I don't, I think it was already put together, but I emailed it to the person putting it together cuz that's one of my photos.
JM: This is one of your photographs, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: And how it got there, maybe you sent it to somebody and then they put it in the book, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: You actually signed it though, right?
JA: I didn't sign it, I just wrote in it, I didn't want to put my name.
JM: But this is your writing, right?
JA: Yes
JM: I move for the admission of exhibit 485
KN: No objections
Judge: 485 is admitted
JM: Exhibit 485 it says: Travis, you're beautiful on the inside and out, doesn't it
JA: Yes
JM: Isn't that kind of a lie based on what you told us in court right?
KN: Objection, argumentative
Judge: Rephrase
JM: That's not true based on what you told us here in court.
KN: Objection, argumentative
Judge: overruled
JA: I believed, um, he had inner beauty, yes, so it is true.
JM: So you think somebody masturbates to pictures of little boys is beautiful on the inside?
JA: I don't think that aspect of him is beautiful at all, I think it's sickening
JM: Well, I'm asking you, you did write beautiful on the inside and yet you knew, according to you, he had this issue, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And so if you write that, you've indicated it was a problem for you, right?
JA: It was
JM: And you indicated you even obtained a pamphlet for him, to give to him
JA: Yes, two of them
JM: And you also indicated that you believed that he needed help, right/
JA: He did need help
JM: Right, you've indicated that to us on direct examination a couple of times at least, right?
JA: That's right.
JM: But yet here you write that he was beautiful on the inside knowing all of that
JA: He hated those parts of himself
JM: pardon
JA: He hated those parts of himself, it's not who he wanted to be
JM: Whether he wanted to be it or not, somebody that has those issues, you still think is beautiful on the inside and that's why you wrote it.
JA: I believed that he could get better
JM: I'm not asking you if you believed that he could get better., I'm asking you whether or not someone is beautiful on the inside if they have the problem you told us about
KN: Objection asked and answered for the third time
Judge: Overruled
JA: What was the question?
JM: Mike, can you read it back for me
Mike: I'm not asking you if you believed he could get better, I'm asking you whether or not someone is beautiful on the inside if they have that problem you told us about.
JA: I believed that he has aspects of himself that were beautiful and some that were ugly, just like I do.
JM: So what you're saying is the statement beautiful on the inside is a qualified statement?
JA: I don' t know what you mean by qualified.
JM: Well, it doesn't tell the whole truth, it just tells part of the truth
JA: Of course, this is a memorial book
JM: pardon
JA: Of course, this is a memorial book
JM: You didn't have to write it in the memorial book
JA: I didn't have to
JM: And you didn't have to go to the memorial service, right
JA: That's right
JM: One of the things that you told us was that you and Mr. Alexander had an agreement, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And that agreement according to you was that even if the funeral service was in Antartica, the two of you would attend each others funeral depending on who outlived the other, right?
JA: He said he'd come to mine even if it was in Antartica
JM: Ma'am I'm asking you if you told us previously that you and he had an agreement to attend each other's funeral depending on who died first
JA: It wasn't quite like that
JM: Well didn't you tell us that on direct examination that that was part of the reason you went, this understanding?
JA: I didn't go to his funeral, I couldn't make it
JM: The memorial service?
JA: Um, that wasn't part of the agreement
JM: Well, but you did mention that you believed that he would have done the same thing for you,r ight?
JA: Yes
JM: Well in terms of this memorial service if the situation was reversed, do you still think he should have gone to your memorial service if he had killed you?
KN: Objection, calls for speculation
Judge: Sustained
JM: What was the agreement or what was the understanding of your agreement, then?
JA: I told him one time that I admired his speaking skills and that if I ever passed away, I would like him to give the eulogy at my funeral because I knew that he would edify me in every way.
JM: How about with him, if he passed away before you, what was the agreement?
JA: It wasn't discussed, I don't think
JM: Oh so you didn't have any understanding whatsoever in regards to if you should attend a memorial service
JA: Ir was more about my funeral
JM: Well, do you remember telling us something different on direct examination?
JA: Um, I don't remember
JM: Do you remember on direct examination telling us that you felt compelled to go because of this agreement that the two of you had
JA: That's why I felt compelled to go
JM: Because there was an agreement, right?
JA: Because he would have gone to mine
JM: And you believe that that was sort of an unwritten agreement between the two of you, that's how you portrayed it to us on direct examination, right?
JA: The eulogy part was sort of an unwritten agreement
JM: I'm talking about just actually going, I'm not talking about the eulogy, isn't it true that during direct examination the way you portrayed it to us was the reason you went was because you and he had talked about it and you felt compelled to go based on those conversations?
JA: Yes
JM: And those conversations included going to Antartica if that were the case, right?
JA: He said he would
JM: And that's how much that's how strong the commitment was to attend each other's memorial service, right?
JA: Um, I don't recall making an commitment to attend the service, but this was the reason I felt compelled to go
JM: because of the conversation you had with him.
JA: Yes
JM: No one knew about this conversation, you had with him, right?
JA: No, it was in his office, it was just us.
JM: So it was just you and him, right
JA: Yes
JM: So if no one knew about it, you really didn't have to go and nobody would have been the wiser, right
JA: That's right
JM: But you made the choice to go, right?
JA: Yes, I did.
JM: You also write you always told me that I never stopped believing in you, and I know that you always believed in me. That's what it says, right?
JA: Yes
JM: You always believed in him, right?
JA: Yes, I did
JM: Even though, according to you, he would get this mean look on his face and come charging down the hallway, you still believed in him, right?
JA: Yes, that isn't who he wanted to be
JM: I'm not asking you if that's who he wanted to be, did I ask you that ma'am?
JA: no
JM: I'm asking you whether or not you still believed in him if he, for example, according to you threw you down and choked you, you still believed in him, right?
JA: I believed in his potential still
JM: So the answer is yes, right
JA: Yes
JM: So even though he may have been on the couch kissing with some girl in August 2007, you still believed in him, right?
JA: Yes, I wasn't his girlfriend
JM: Pardon
JA: I wasn't his girlfriend, so yeah of course I still believed in him.
JM: You were his girlfriend in August 2007
JA: I was not, I wasn't
JM: So you still believed in him even though he was kissing on some girl and you still believed he was courting you at that time, you still believed in him?
JA: Well it cheapened his efforts
JM: I understand that it may have cheapened
JA: I still believed in his potential of who he wanted to become
JM: So it cheapened his efforts
JA: Certainly
JM: And if it cheapened his efforts, then perhaps he wasn't believing in you as much as you indicate in this card, or this writing.
KN: objection, calls for speculation about what Mr. Alexander believed
Judge: Overruled
JA: I think we're talking about different aspects of what we believed about each other
JM: Well you said that you never stopped believing in him, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And you never stopped believing in him irrespective of the issues you told us about, right?
JA: That's right
JM: And these issues that according to you he wasn't getting any help for, right?
JA: I don't know if he was or not, I believe he was, I don't believe he did
JM: According to you, you believe he's not getting help for any of these issues, right?
JA: Yes
JM: He's not doing anything about it
JA: I don't know that
JM: Well, I'm asking what your belief is, I'm not asking what you know, I'm asking for your belief.
KN: Objection
Judge: Overruled
JA: I believed he was doing things, not seeking professional help, but he said he spent a lot of time in prayer about it
JM: So you believed he was praying about it
JA: Yes
JM: Do you believe he went to a bishop to talk about it
JA: Um, he did talk to a bishop about hi
JM Is that a yes or a now
JA: Well, I really don't know
JM: Okay. It says thank you for sharing so much and for all your generosity. This world has been blessed because you have been here, right?
JA: Yes
JM: So you believe somebody that does the sort of horrible act that you've described is a blessing to the world?
JA: He did bless the world
JM: My question's a little different. Do you believe that somebody that did whatever it is you allege he did, is a blessing to the world?
JA: That is not a blessing to the world
JM: So this wasn't true, then
JA: No, I just said that he blessed the world in ways.
JM: Ma'am one of the other things that is that we know about is that you and he had quite the relationship behind closed doors, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And they're called private relationships for a reason, right
JA: Yes
JM: And so one of the things that you complained about on direct examination was that nobody knew what your business or what your affairs were, do you remember complaining about that?
JA: Um, I don't remember the context, but I may have said something to that effect.
JM: And it upset you that these interactions between you and him were behind closed doors
JA: No, are you talking about, what activities are you referring to?
JM: Well, for example, you complained about when you went out that he wouldn't treat you in the sort of way that indicated that you were perhaps closer to him than you were.
JA: That's correct
JM: He wouldn't hold your hand, right
JA: Usually, not
JM: He wouldn't kiss you in public according to you
JA: He did as long as we weren't on our own home turfs
JM: But in certain circumstances he wouldn't kiss you when you went out
JA: That's correct
JM: and all of this bothered you, didn't it
JA: It did bother me
JM: And it bothered you because on the other hand, he's very attentive when doors are closed, but not when people are around, right?
JA: Yes
JM: and you could have though put an end to that, couldn't you
JA: Yes
JM: You could have left, you could have gone to Yreka, right?
JA: Yes
JM: But you chose not to
JA: Not right away
JM: Well you chose not to until April of 2008, right?
JA: I, that's when I did it, I made the decision prior
JM: You made the decision in March of 2008, right?
JA: Actually it was Christmas 2007
JM: Do you remember that we took a look at your journal in March of 2008 and that's when you told him that you were going to go to Yreka
JA: That's right
JM: And also we know that you went in April of 2008, right?
JA: Yes
JM: So you're free to go at any time that you want
JA: I was broke, so not really, but
JM: Well you had parents, right
JA: Yes
JM: They would have helped you if you went home, right
KN: Objection, relevance
Judge: rephrase
JM You asked your mom for help to move, right?
JA: Yes
JM: She came out here to Mesa, correct
JA: Yes
JM: She flew, correct?
JA: She flew to Phoenix
JM: And what ever happened, she went on her way shortly after she came out here, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And so there was at least an indication based on that that they would help, your parents would helpf you, in whatever way they could, right?
JA: yes
JM: So it wasn't a situation where you were stranded, was it
JA: Um, I mean I don't know, I didn't know that they would help me until I was desperate enough to call her and she would, she said she would
JM: Well you indicated that you called and she responded, right?
JA: Yes
JM: they wouldn't know that you needed their help unless they called, right
JA: Well, Matt called once, but unless I called and needed that kind of help
JM: On the occasion that you called your mother, isn't it true that she agreed to help, right?
JA: Yes
JM: In fact the way to help was she even came out here to help you load the truck, right?
JA: I think I got the truck after she left, but her purpose was to come and help me load the truck
JM: You didn't have the truck at the time
JA: Not yet
JM: well it seems like when you protest and say well, I'm really stuck here in AZ, you weren't really stuck in AZ, were you?
JA: I don't know, I mean my parents have been financially capable at some times and at other times not, so at the time I called they were able to help me, they were in a position to help me.
JM: And they did, the only time you asked them, related to this case, they were able to provide some help, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And in fact when you go to Yreka, you had a place to stay, right
JA: Yes
JM: You didn't want to stay with your parents
JA: there were no beds
JM: You didn't want to stay with your parents
JA: No
JM: You wanted to stay with your grandparents
JA: Yes
JM: And in fact you could get a job there if you wanted to, right
JA: I did get a job there
JM: You could if you wanted to in fact you started to work at Casa Ramos according to youj, right
JA: Well it depends on who hires, I searched and searched and hunted and I did not get a job for awhile and I finally was hired somewhere.
JM: You did get a job at Casa Ramos, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And this was in Yreka, right
JA: Yes

JM: And working at Casa Ramos, you had your own money, right
JA: Yes
JM: No one took it away from you?
JA: No
JM: And in fact you weren't lending or giving any money to Mr. Alexander at that point, right?
JA: I was paying back a debt that I owed him
JM: But that's not giving money is it
JA: Yes, I was giving it willingly
JM: Well, if you have a debt and you give money for that, that's not a gift, is it?
JA: It was not a gift, it was a repayment
JM: Right
JA: And in fact the terms were pretty loose on that
JM: And whatever you afford he would accept, right
JA: Yeah, he said to keep it at at least 100 dollars a month, but pay more any time you can pay more
JM: It was a loose agreement
JA: Yes
JM: He wasn't putting any financial pressure on you, right?
JA: Not at first
JM: When you say not at first, it implies that he was putting pressure on you at some point, right?
JA: Yes he did
JM: Was there an amount mentioned
JA: No
JM: Was there a threat of going to court to get the money?
JA: No
JM: And in fact he helped you get a car, the one that had lost the transmission and had all those problems when you started to tow it?
JA: What do you mean?
JM: He was trying to find out who was responsible for that, on your behalf, wasn't he?
JA: I think I was, I called the lawfirm, he called a law firm, we were waiting for calls back
JM: He attempted by calling a law firm, right
JA: I don't remember if he called his directly, I mean I know that I called attorneys and I think he was doing his own research on it as well
JM: When you told him that this had happened, he wasn't upset with you, was he
JA: No, he wasn't
JM: And in fact when you told him that this happened, he tried to do the best for you, right?
JA: Yes
JM: He wrote that he felt bad for you, right?
JA: yes
JM: And, in fact, the way he handled that situation, you actually in your journal, called him your hero,right?
JA: Yes
JM: so it appears that you're in Yreka, this individual, Mr. Alexander, is in the Mesa area and there doesn't seem to be any other tie other than the sexual bond, that the two of you seem to have
JA: well that and the car
JM: But the car was a loose bond, wouldn't you agree
JA: Yes
JM: You could have mailed the ayment and not talked to him ever, right?
JA: That' right
JM: You could have conceivable paid him off with one payment, not that you ever would, but that would be the end of it
JA: Of our communication
JM: No, the end of the issues involving the car
JA: um after the car was paid and I had the title, no we wouldn't have to
JM: But you did have this sexual bond, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And it appears that you wanted to be with him as much as he wanted to be with you?
JA: That would be accurate
JM: so that when we talk about, or when you tell us things like well, I was over at Sky and Christ Hughes' house approximately a week after you met him and you indicate that you had oral sex and you said that well, you were uncomfortable with that, do you remember that?
JA: Yes
JM: Well, you were pretty attracted to him, weren't you
JA: My attraction didn't develop that quickly
JM: Are you saying you did that even though you didn't want to?
JA: Yes
JM: and did you tell him that
JA: No
JM: Did you think that he was a mind-reader and would know that you didn't want to do that?
JA: No
JM: And one of the other things you said that was striking was that when he was performing oral sex on you he said you said he sure knew what he was doing? Do you remember saying that on direct examination?
JA: yes
JM: Well doesn't it take one to know one?
KN: Objection, improper
Judge: Sustained
JM: How do you know he was so good unless you had previously been exposed to that activity
JA: I was previously exposed to that activity in my prior relationships
JM: So there wasn't anything wrong with him being experienced in that area, was there?
JA: Not in my opinion, no
JM: So when you said that he was sure experienced in that area, you didn't mean to be saying that that was a negative thing, right
JA: No
JM: And the other thing that you said was no, it really wasn't your cup of tea that time, right?
JA: that's correct
JM: you could have stopped at anytime and said I don't want to see you anymore, right?
JA: Yes
JM: Cuz that was really the first time you had ever seen him, right?
JA: No that would have been our second
JM: No, I mean, alone, in private
JA: Second
JM: You'd had had some sort of sexual contact at that time?
JA: No, I'm talking alone, private
JM: I'm talking sexual contact
JA: Okay
JM: Based on what happened there, and the sexual contact at that point you said well I wasn't really that interested in him, at that point, right, you just said that?
JA: um, there was an interest but the deep level of my attraction hadn't developed to that extent
JM: So you weren't that attracted to him, right? Would that be fair to say, or no?
JA: Um, well when you say that attracted, like I was attracted to him but it felt like it was too soon, is all
JM: Well you said that my attraction hadn't developed to that point, yet which appears to say that you weren't attracted to him to have sex with him on that occasion , right?
JA: Not yet to that level
JM: You keep saying not yet, I'm just talking about that particular point, I just want you to focus on that point, at that point you were not sexually attracted to him, right
JA: I wouldn't say that
JM: Oh, so you were sexually attracted to him
JA: On some level I was
JM: and so being sexually attracted to him, this was an activity that was enjoyable to you, right
JA: Umm, it otherwise could have been but I just felt uncomfortable.
JM: Well, you're saying you felt uncomfortable, are you saying that it was not an enjoyable situation for you?
JA: Like internally, no, so physically I wasn't able to enjoy myself, but there wasn't anything actually wrong with the scenario because all the elements were there other than those things
JM: If you weren't enjoying in internally and you weren't enjoying it externally, what you're saying is you weren't enjoying it at all because there's only the internal and the external, right?
KN: Objection
Judge Overruled, you may answer
JA: Yes
JM: So you were not enjoying it that is what you're saying?
JA: Once it progressed to the oral sex, I was no longer enjoying it
JM: You could have told him to stop, right
JA: Yes
JM: But you didn't
JA: That's right?
JM: You never showed any indication that this activity was unwelcome, rigth?
JA: That's right
JM: There was no way for him to know that this activity was unwelcome, right?
JA: Yes, I think I acted liked it
JM: The answer is yes, right?
JA: That's right
JM: So after that, and really what we have to that sort of assertion, all we have is your word, we don't have for example any video or anything like that that would show us what happened then to show us you were enjoying this activity, correct?
JA: Um, that is correct
JM: and with regard to the other time, the situation in the car, again you indicated that you were uncomfortable with it right?
JA: Somewhat, yes
JM: If you were uncomfortable the first time and you have the ability to say no, you could have stopped the second time, right?
JA: Yes
JM: That was a choice that you made, right
JA: Yes
JM: You made the choice to be with him that second time, right
JA: Yes, I did
JM: So when you talk about well, I was uncomfortable about it I felt bad about itwhatever the terms are that you used, at some point even though you felt that way, that was you responsibility to let the other party know that perhaps you weren't into it as much as they were, right?
JA: Um, what do you mean? You mean if I didn't want to proceed with it, then it would have been my responsibility to tell him? That's right.
JM: You could have told him no, right
JA: I could have, yes
JM: and you've done that before in your lifetime, haven't you
JA:Um, yes
JM: And one of the things that you kept saying on direct examination was you know I felt that I liked him and didn't want to hurt his feelings. Do you remember saying that you didn't want to hurt his feelings?
JA: Yes
JM: The fact that you would have said no do you think would have hurt his feelings?
JA: I felt that way, that it would have been a blow to his ego.
JM: So you felt then that it would have been a blow to his ego if you would have told him no?
JA: yes
JM: Well, who cares about his ego?
JA: I did
JM: You cared about his ego even though you had only known him for approximately two weeks?
JA: Yes
JM: So does that mean that you were more invested in him then you are telling us? In other words at that point you really had strong feelings for him?
JA: They weren't strong, but there was an attraction there.
JM: So you were attracted to him then?
JA: Yes
JM: So you wanted this sort of activity to continue, right?
JA: What kind of activity?
JM: Sexual activity?
JA: Um, well I didn't stop it
JM: well when you say you didn't stop it, it just sounds again like you're saying, well it was all him and not you, right?
JA: no, it takes two to tango
JM: That's right and it was a mutual activity, wasn't it.
JA: Yes

 

[minor4th]

Originally posted by ingra1327

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - *graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**

Travis Alexander trial Day 23 Afternoon Cross Part 2



JM: Let's see what you have to say about that. Move for the admission of exhibit 486
KN: No objection
Judge: Did you say 486?
JM: Yes 486
Judge: 486 is admitted

(55:49)
48 Hours Mystery: “You're moving away and you're saying you want to end this unhealthy relationship and yet a) you're still making plans to get together and travel, and b) you're still showing up for sex. Yeah, it was hard to tell Travis no, he would call meat night and we would have long conversations and he would tell me the things that he would like to see happen when he would come up to visit me to put it in a G-rated manner. And the things that he wanted to do as far as traveling and where we would go, what we would do and then I wasn't the agenda for him coming up, he was gonna continue up to Washington, see friends there and then come all the way back down and see Pacific Coast Hwy as well. It eventually became sex. Was it mutual, it was always mutual, yeah.

JM: You did indicate that it was always mutual
JA: That's correct
JM: Well that means that when you and he were involved it was mutual, right?
JA: Yes it was
JM: and when you were involved any time after that it was always mutual right?
JA: I believed it was
JM: So when you tell us that you felt like a used piece of toilet paper, well, that you're sort of telling us at that point that it wasn't mutual. That somebody was taking more than they were giving.
JA: No, it was still mutual at that point.
JM: even though you felt that way, you can still say that it was a mutual kind of thing?
JA: Yes, when I told him to stop, he did
JM: pardon
JA: When I told him to stop he did
JM: anytime you would ask him to stop, he woud stop, right?
JA: Um, except the one time in May
JM: But in the statement that we just heard in exhibit 846, you indicated that it was always mutual, right
JA: Yes
JM: You never indicated that there was ever a problem, right?
JA: That's right
JM: Ma'am one of the things we know is that there was this text message that you received while you were at the grove. Do you know what I'm talking about?
JA: Yes
JM: And this was sometime in November of 2006, right?
JA: That's right
JM: You told us that you were at some sort of meeting at a restaurant
JA: We were first at super Saturday and then a group of friends and I business associates we all went to a restaurant.
JM: What was the name of the restaurant?
JA: I don't remember
JM: What was the name of the city
JA: Anaheim
JM: And you were in Anaheim and you were at this restaurant and who else was sitting there?
JA: Um, Michelle was sitting across from me, I think Lenore was there. I was still kind of new so I don't remember all the names but I think my friends Jared was sitting to my left, I mean I can picture faces, but I don't remember the names, there was a whole long table of people.
JM: And you received this text message, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And at the time you indicated you had a flip-top phone and basically when you received a text message, what would be required was you would open the phone and look at it right?
JA: Yes
JM: In addition, you had to take an extra step, right?
JA: Yes
JM: You would have to take a step to take a look at the text message, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And you said you were somewhat unaware of what was in this text message, that you were unaware of what was in that text message, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And you opened it, right?
JA: Yes
JM: Did anybody see it?
JA: Um, well I don't know if Jared saw it, but I think he did, I flipped it shut real quick to make sure no one was looking.
JM: Cause you knew what it was, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And you found it offensive, right
JA: Not at all, actually
JM: So you thought it was okay then,
JA: Yes
JM: 'So when you were telling us about how it was that you received this, you didn't mean to tell us that you were offended by it, right?
JA: No, I was not offended.
JM: And it was something that you liked, right?
JA: I did like it, yeah.
JM: And it was something that he was showing you attention and so, looking at it was something that that, for whatever reason, at least indicated there was a relationship, a partial relationship for you, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And you never told him don't ever send me anything like that, right?
JA: no
JM: you never indicated to him afterward I'm embarrassed by that sort of activity, don't do that.
JA: No
JM: And in fact you were so happy, I would say weren't you so happy with that activity that you actually took the time, the effort and the trouble to download it?
JA: I took the effort and the trouble to download all the photos at once.
JM: Well, you knew that that was on your telephone, didn't you
JA: Yes
JM: That's not something that you forget, right?
JA: Um, no
JM: And in fact there were other pictures that were involved at other times that were deleted, right?
JA: On my phone?
JM: Yes
JA: Yes
JM: and this particular case though, this actually went onto the harddrive that was damaged that we've heard of, right?
JA: That's right
JM: And that harddrive was available for your enjoyment, right?
JA: Until it broke, yes
JM: And, but you could access whatever photographs that you wanted including the picture of Mr. Alexander's penis, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And you also sent some pictures of yourself, right?
JA: Yes
JM: and you sent them photographs of yourself topless, right?
JA: Um, yes I did
JM: you were not offended by, you were not offended by the fact that you were sending him photographs, in other words that wouldn't be a problem for you
JA: Not the photos I was sending, I don't think I showed my face in the photos
JM: But you did show youre upper chest area, right?
JA: Um, I believe there were photos, several, of that nature
JM: And there were three of them right?
JA: I don't remember
JM: And did you also send them to his phone?
JA: Yes
JM: And you used your telephone to take the pictures?
JA: Yes
JM: And even doing that you took the trouble downloading things to your computer, right?
JA: Um, I might have
JM: Well, your familiar with these photographs that came from this computer, right?
JA: No we couldn't find the pictures that were on
JM: but you didn't see anything wrong, or anything untoward with you sending him pictures or him sending you pictures
JA: Um, no I didn't
JM: In fact it was a learning process for both of you right?
KN: Objection, calls for speculation
Judge: Sustained
JM: well you and he were experimenting, correct?
JA: You mean with the camera phone?
JM: Well no just sexually speaking
JA: I don't know what you mean by experimenting but we were sexual
JM: well, let's talk about something that was on May 10, 2008 conversation that you had with him, okay?
JA: Okay
JM: In looking at that ma'am, I am going to show you exhibit numbers 425, 426, and 427
JA: okay
JM: You recognize the person in those?
JA: Yeah, this is me just prior to my surgery, Daryl took them
JM: And your surgery was in May of 2006, right?
JA: Um, June 2006
JM: Move for the admission of exhibits 425, 426 and 427
KN: Objection, relevance
Judge: Approach
Tape playing: of KY 'Travis: I've heard of it obviously, but I had never used it. JA: Giggles loudly, you know I had never used it until and I'd always heard of it until one day I just thought, cause it's so cliché and people make fun of it, you know, but it's great stuff. Travis: It's awesome there's nothing else...(I can't hear this part of the tape)KY is good for you, I don't mean it's beneficial because it's designed specifically for that purpose, it's good for the inside...baby oil not the best thing cuz it's mineral oil, you know.
JM: So it appears that in terms of the KY you were the one that introduced Mr. Alexander to it, right?
JA: Yes, that's right
JM: And it was used as part of these sexual encounters that the two of you had?
JA: Yes
JM: And you introduced that into the relationship because it was enjoyable to you, right?
JA: It made out activities more enjoyable
JM: So they were enjoyable to start with and this just enhanced them, right?
JA: Most were enjoyable to start with, most were the first time
JM: I'm just asking about the KY, you introduced the KY into the relationship to make it more sexually enjoyable, right?
JA: Um, yes
JM: And in fact before that your experience had been with baby oil, right?
JA: That's right?
JM: at least to Bobby Juarez, that was what was involved, that's what you used, right?
JA: Probably, I don't remember, but with Matt
JM: So when we're talking about this level of experimentation in this case, it looks like the both of you were experiementing sexually, right?
JA: That's right
JM: When we hear things like well I felt like a prostitute, that's not exactly true, right?
KN: Objection
Judge: Rephrase
JM: When you say that you felt like a prostitute that's at odds with what you're telling us, what we're hearing here about the KY
JA: Well, you're talking about two different incidents, so it would be at odds.
JM: Your participation if you will in these activities was equal to his, right, wasn't it
JA: Yes
JM: So any derogatory statements such as I felt like a prostitute isn't really what was going on, representative of what was going on, right?
JA: Um, it was ,but it was my fault for feeling that way because I allowed it
JM: Well, I know that you allowed it and you felt that way and you say that you felt like a prostitute but when we hear this partial clip of this conversation it looks like you're the one that's moving it along as opposed to him
JA: Is that a question
JM: It is a question
JA: What's the question?
JM: The question is whether or not you were moving it along?
JA: I'd say it was mutual
JM: Well, if it was mutual, um, there is no suggestion then or any reason why you should feel like a prostitute if it was mutual then.
JA: I didn't feel like a prostitute during, just afterward I did.
JM: Well, this is suggestive of you being as much of a participant in these activities as he was, right?
JA: Yes and I was
JM: and so you indicated on two occasions on direct examination that you felt like a prostitute, right?
JA: I believe referencing Ehrenberg, yes
JM: And in Ehrenberg, that's when you said you felt like one, correct?
JA: Not when, after Ehrenberg after thinking about it and he didn't call me for three days and hotel room and all that
JM: And then additionally you also said you felt like that after the batism
JA: No, I think after that I felt like a used piece of toilet paper.
JM: And you didn't convey that to him, did you
JA: No
JM: Did you also say that you felt like a prostitute when he came over ato your house and engaged in oral sex on the porch? Was that the other time.
JA: If I did say that, that would be accurate.
JM: And so if you did feel like that, and remember you even referenced a piece of chocolate being thrown your way do you remember that?
JA: Yes
JM: and then you said, well, I felt kinda like a prostitute. Do you remember saying that now?
JA: Yes
JM: So that was already when you were in Mesa, living in Mesa, right?
JA: That's right?
JM: That's after you had broken up with him on June 29, 2007, right?
JA: yes
JM: That's after you and he had had sex many times, right?
JA: Yes
JM: That's after you and he had already started using the KY, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And so how is it that you can say I felt like a prostitute if you're the one that's sort of moving the relationship ahead?
JA: Well, your question doesn't make sense to me
JM: It doesn't make sense to you? Why is that, ma'am? Because you're moving the relationship ahead by providing the KY, right?
JA: Um, I don't know we would have used something else if it wasn't KY, so no..
JM: Well, you might have used something else if it wasn't KY, but you provided the something else, didn't you? The KY
JA: In this case, I did.
JM: We're not talking about any other case, ma'am, we're talking about this case. You were the one that had the KY or brought it into the relationship to make it better, right?
JA: To facilitate our activities
JM: Sure and that would make them better to facilitated your activities, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And yet you're telling us on the other hand that I felt like a prostitute. Which one is it?
JA: well, when he ****es on my face and throws candy my way without a word, it kinda feels like I'm a prostitute. And when we're mutually going through sexual activity and there's KY there, it's mtutal.
JM: And you're saying that the offensive thing was the **** on you face, right?
JA: I didn't say it was offensive, because I knew it was coming and I willingly participated in it
JM: Well, no, that's sorta how you're making sound like it's something that you didn't want, right?
JA: um, if I didn't want it then I wouldn't have done it
JM: Well let's see what the text message says that actually. Let's take a look at another exhibit. Let's take a look at 488 and 489. 488 does not include Mr. Alexander's responses but 489 does. Take a look at those
JA: Yes, I remember this
JM: And these are text messages that you sent out referencing the particular sex act that we've been talking about
JA: No, this took place in his bedroom, not on the porch
JM: Well it talks about the same sex act, doesn't it, oral sex, doesn't it?
JA: Um, oral sex ejaculating on a face, yes
JM: Okay
JA: I move for the admission of exhibit number 489
KN: Can we approach?
Judge: You may
489 is admitted
JM: Let's take a look at exhibit 489. Ma'am the date on that is January 18th of 2008, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: And we've already talked about the times that this is seven hours ahead, correct?
JA: That is correct.
JM: And it does say that it's an incoming message, right?
JA: Um, yes
JM: Which means, as you've previously told us that incoming message means you sent it, right?
JA: That's right
JM: and then this is what the text message reads: :Will do. The reason I was asking about later tonight is because I want to give u a nice bj” Bj stands for what?
JA:
JM: And means without getting way to well means you put your mouth on his penis
JA: Yes, oral sex
JM: Right, and in addition to it you say and I'd like a generous facial in return, right?
JA: yes
JM: That means that you want him to ejaculate on your face, right?
JA: that's correct.
JM: One of the things that we talked about previously you feeling like a prostitute involved a situation where he came over to your house, right?
JA: Yes
JM: On the porch, right?
JA: That's right
JM: And this is what happened what is said in that exhibit, right?
JA: Um, this is a different event, but just that part, yes
JM: It may be a different event, but it's the same act, correct?
JA: And on one occasion he just did and the other occasion is when he left the chocolate, right?
JA: Yes
JM: What you're saying is you found the other one and you felt like a prostitute even though you're the one that's asking him to do that on January 18 of 2008, right?
JA: This is another night, yes. I'm not asking him to do those two things you just referenced. We went, I went over to his house we were in his bedroom, on his bed.
JM: But it's the same act isn't it?
JA: Yes
JM: And so you want him to do to you what happened on the porch, right?
JA: um, yes, well noI didn't want to kneel on my porch and have him walk away from me when he's done.
JM: But I'm talking about the sexual act itself, isn't it the same thing?
JA: Yes
JM: Yet one of them you describe as leaving you feeling like a prostitute, yet this one which is the same thing you're requesting it, right?
JA: I don't know what you mean by the same thing, if you're talking about **** on your face, it's the same thing, as far as the context it's completely different.
JM: Right well what you're talking about is geography, right?
JA: Um geography, mood, setting
JM: Well, you're talking about one being on the porch and this one being in his house, right?
JA: Yes
JM: Putting aside geography, one happened in front of the porch and one happened in his house, isn't it the same act?
JA: Yes it is
JM: And this is one that you are requesting, right?
JA: That's right
JM: We know that because you say Whaddya say?, right?
JA: Yes
JM: And actually then he says “Or we can just grind?” Right?
JA: Um, I think I sent that
JM: Ok, then you say that, or we can just grind, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: Then he says “that's a good close”, right?
JA: right
JM: So we can get our terms straight, grinding is a sexual term for those in the Mormon community., right?
JA: I think it is, usually Mormon's typically do it with their clothes on, but we did it without our clothes..
JM: And when you say that they do it with their clothes on it means they rubbed their genetalia together, correct, and they call it grinding, correct?
JA: Yes
JM: Um, but you and Mr. Alexander did it without your clothes on, right?
JA: Yes
JM: Was KY involved in this grinding activity?
JA: Sometimes yes, sometimes no
JM: and it would involve if you will, sexual intimacy, correct?
JA: Yes

End of day's testimony

 

[minor4th]

Originally posted by ingra1327

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - *graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**


Travis Alexander-Day 24-Morning cross Pt 1: sex tapes again

M: Ma'am yesterday you told us that after your experience or time in Ehrenberg with Mr. Alexander that you felt like a prostitute, right?
A: yes
M: But you've made other statements with regard to your experiences in Ehrenberg, haven't you?
A: Yes
M: Let's take a look and an exhibit. It's exhibit 490, which comes from an excerpt from your conversation with Mr. Alexander on May 10, 2008. Let's listen to it and see if that's your voice and then..
Tape plays: (inaudible to me)KY just keep putting it on as you need it and keep slip sliding around, giggle. Remember the first time that you and I grinded? An Ehrenberg and I was like cumming and you were like oh I came and we came at the same time and I looked around and there was just **** all over. It was so hot. We came together and that was so cool. (can't hear Travis) Yeah, think about that when you drive through there. Travis, I will, always. J: So do I.
M: Ma'am that's your voice on there, right?
A: Yes
M: And that's you and Mr. Alexander discussing what may have happened in Ehrenberg, right?
A: Yes, what did happen
M: Pardon
A: What did happen
M: What happened in Ehrenberg, right?
A: Yes
M: And you were talking in very fond tones about that experience in this clip that we just played, weren't you?
A: Yes
M: And it was because it was fun, right?
A: Yes
M: And it was something that you enjoyed, right?
A: Yes
M: So when you tell us that you felt like a prostitute, it really does, it seems to be contradicted by what's on exhibit 490, right?
A: Not if you understand why I said that
M: Well, you do enjoy, you do say that you enjoy the visit to Ehrenberg, correct?
A: Yes
M: You do enjoy the sex in Ehrenberg, correct?
A: Yes
M: I move for the admission of exhibit 490.
N: No objection
Judge: 490 is admitted
M: Ma'am you also had another conversation involving Ehrenberg with the people from 48 hours, correct?
A: Yes
M: Let me have that marked as an exhibit. I move for the admission of exhibit 491.
N: No additional objection, your honor
Judge: 491 is admitted.
48 Hours: Tell me more about that, what was it that was special about him. He was, he really was an amazing person to know. Um, he was generous, one of the most generous people that I've ever encountered. Um, we would, there was one point when we were in Ehrenberg, I think it's in Arizona, it's right on the border of Arizona or California, it's Ehrenberg and we were driving up, we were hitting the freeway to go to a movie theater. And we stopped at the stop sign to get onto the freeway and there was a lady holding a sign. I don't remember if it said Will work for food, or hungry, or God bless or something like that, but either way, he pulled over, we were in his BMW, he rolled down his window and he said “are you hungry” and she said “yeah”. And so with that, he turns around and we go to Wendy's and he gets the triple decker that they sell and the biggie fries and the biggest drink that you can get. And we drove back and gave it to her and she was really grateful, she just went over and sat down away from the freeway and started eating and had dinner that night. So, just little examples like that is just one of so many that people can tell you about his generosity. There were so many attractive qualities about him. He was very kind. When I moved from Mesa originally I down-sized from a house to a room and I didn't have a place to put my art and I did have a place to put my books and some of the things that were really precious to me so he allowed me to use, he had so much storage available in his home so he allowed me to use a lot of that storage to put things in his garage, his home, his closet and his office, things like that, so um, just, and it wasn't even a question, it was just like put it at my house. It wasn't like he was doing me this was a favor, it was just of course, why think twice about it. He was never showy about how generous he was, it was like second nature to him.
M: Ma'am when you first described this visit to Ehrenberg, you told us something that was a little bit different than what we heard right now, right?
A: Yes, according to the questions I was asked.
M: Yes or no?
A: Yes
M: And you told us about going to Sizzler, right?
A: Yes
M: You told us about him grabbing your rear-end, right?
A: Yes
M: You told us about the sexual encounter, right?
A: Yes
M: You told us it really wasn't a romantic weekend at all
A: No, it wasn't
M: And in fact the indication from you from the witness stand was that this was a pretty bad weekend all around, wasn't it
A: No, I didn't say that
M: Well, your indication was that all he wanted was sex, right?
A: Um, it seemed that way
M: Well, if it seemed that way, that was your belief right?
A: Not at the time but in retrospect, yes
M: So as you sis here today it looks like all he wanted was sex, right?
A: Mostly
M: Yes or no
A: Mostly
M: And when you got there according to you that's the first thing that happened, right?
A: Yes
M: And then you guys sat around at some point and started to look at or watch TV, correct?
A: Yes
M: And at some point you went out to dinner, right?
A: Yes
M: And at another point you went to the movies, right?
A: Yes
M: And you indicated that , well to you the way you said it, it wasn't a very romantic weekend, right?
A: Not overly romantic, in fact there was very little romance
M: Ma'am, I'm not asking you to embellish right now, I'm asking you whether or not you told us before that it was not a romantic weekend, that's what you said on direct , correct?
A: Yes
M: And you didn't tell us about this circumstance where he stopped and he gave this woman this burger from Wendy's either, did you?
A: No
M: It appears that there are two sides to what went on in Ehrenberg, correct?
A: No
M: Well, it appears that there's the side that we just heard from, where you enjoyed the sex, right?
A: Yes
M: A side where you and he were driving around, correct?
A: Yes
M: And he helped some homeless person, right?
A: I think she was homeless
M: Well, it's somebody that was standing on the side of the road, right?
A: Yes
M: With some sort of sign., and it looks like what we heard from the previous excerpt, it looks like you were sort of reminiscing back on May 10, 2008 reminiscing in a very positive fashion, right?
A: May 10, 2008, oh, yes
M: That's the phone call we just heard prior to this
A: Yes
M: And it looked like you were reminiscing in a very positive fashion right?
A:
M Not the same picture that you presented previously with regards to the Ehrenberg meeting, correct?
A: I was asked about a different time-frame
M: Ma'am
A: So then that would be correct.
M: The answer is that is correct, right?
A: Yes
M: One of the other things that was presented in this case was that it appeared that, Mr. Alexander, from what you presented, was an individual that was totally into sex, correct?
A: Yes
M: But, and that was with you, correct?
A: Me and other girls
M: Well, had you ever been in a bedroom with him and another girl?
A: Yes
M: And the three of you had sex?
A: No
M: So when you say that he had sex with other women, you really don't know if it's the truth of not, do you?
A: If he was telling me the truth, it was true.
M: Ma'am, I'm not asking you what he told you, I'm asking from your personal experience, in terms of the situations that you know about. You don't know of any other circumstances where he had sex with anybody else, right?
A: I do know
M: And you're talking because you were there and you were watching his penis go inside, right?
A: No
M: You're just telling us that because of some conversations you had with somebody else, right?
A: Just one person
M: And as we know, people don't like, do they?
A: That's not necessarily true
M: Well no, people don't lie, that's what you're telling us right now because your saying that somebody told me it must be true.
N: Objection
J: Sustained
A: I said if
M: Ma'am, you're saying it's based on what somebody told you, right?
A: Based on what Travis told me, yes
M: And people have a tendency to embellish things, sometimes, don't they?
A: Yes
M: Just like you in this case, correct?
A: Um, not on the stand, but in this case, yes
M: Haven't you lied from the very start of this case until, according to you, you got on the witness stand?
A: No
M: Well, you're saying that you're not lying here, that what you're telling us is the truth, right?
A: Yes
M: But when you spoke with the detective that that wasn't true, correct. That's what you told us.
A: Well, anything, some things were not true. Most things
M: Most things were true, is that what you're saying?
A: Some things were not true
M: Did you lie to the detective, yes or no?
A: Yes
M: And did you lie to him on two occasions
A: More than two, yes
M: I'm talking about two dates, did you lie to him on two dates?
A: Yes
M: And did you also lie to 48 Hours?
A: Yes
M: Did you lie to people in Utah?
A: Yes
M: Did you lie to Daniel Freeman?
A: Yes, everyone
M: So you lied to a lot of people, but you're saying that just because you are sitting here in this courtroom there had been, for lack of a better term, a conversion and you are now telling the truth, correct?
A: For lack of a better term, yes
M: And the same thing with regard to whatever Mr. Alexander tells you, everything he says, you believe, right?
A: Not necessarily
M: Well but you do believe the part about the sexual encounters, right?
A: Yes
M: Did you ever talk to the women that were involved to confirm it?
A: Um, no
M: So you don't have any confirmation as to whether or not it happened, right?
A: No
M: It appears this sexual interest that he had was directed toward you, wasn't it
A: Some of it
M: No, most of it, or all of it, wasn't it directed towards you
A: not all of it, some of it, most of it, maybe during the time we were together most of it, I don't know.
M: Well, lets see what was said on May 10th of 2008 about that, and I'll ask you after I play it if that is your voice and if
KN: He has to move to be admitted before it's published
M: Move for the admission of 492
J: 492 is admitted
Tape plays: But you are right that in the bath ahh that was hot.

Oh when we took a bath together?

Uh huh.

That was, that was surreal like honestly and I think I mean maybe the candle light and the bubbles all had something to do with it but ahh you were amazing. You made me seriously you made me feel like a Goddess like I wasn&#8217;t saying you were like worshiping me but you were you made me feel like I was the most freaking beautiful woman on the whole planet. Like I so so felt like I was the Goddess <<giggle>> and so, aside from all those warm fuzzy feelings but like it was it was so sexy and it was so hot and ohh gosh.

Well it wasn&#8217;t hard to make you feel that way because you were you were frickin&#8217; you you were hot you are&#8230;seriously honey, I want pussy right now for that&#8230;start touching yourself.

I am already <<giggle>>

Alright. I just started.

I wish those were my hands giving you a hand job.

Honey right like now before I met you I never jacked off once I start&#8230;I started meeting you it was like once a month once every two weeks like&#8230;since you&#8217;ve left I jack off every day sometimes 2, 3 times a day.

Are you serious?!

Yeah well it&#8217;s always <<unintelligible>>*

Oh my <<unintelligible>> right now. I wish you were here. If you were here and my grandparents asleep I&#8217;d put you right in my bedroom and we&#8217;d shut and lock the door and we would just have a big **** fest and we&#8217;d go at it all night.

M: That is your voice, right?
A: Yes
M: That's him telling you that in terms of his sexual activity, masturbation specifically, he didn't masturbate before he met you, right?
A: No, he didn't say that, he said he hardly ever did.
M: Well Ma'am perhaps we should listen to it again so we can hear. You're saying that he's not saying I don't know before I met you I never jacked-off. I want you to take a listen to that:
Plays tape again:
But you are right that in the bath ahh that was hot.

Oh when we took a bath together?

Uh huh.

That was, that was surreal like honestly and I think I mean maybe the candle light and the bubbles all had something to do with it but ahh you were amazing. You made me seriously you made me feel like a Goddess like I wasn&#8217;t saying you were like worshiping me but you were you made me feel like I was the most freaking beautiful woman on the whole planet. Like I so so felt like I was the Goddess <<giggle>> and so, aside from all those warm fuzzy feelings but like it was it was so sexy and it was so hot and ohh gosh.

Well it wasn&#8217;t hard to make you feel that way because you were you were frickin&#8217; you you were hot you are&#8230;seriously honey, I want pussy right now for that&#8230;start touching yourself.

I am already <<giggle>>

Alright. I just started.
I wish those were my hands giving me a hand job. Honey, don't you know before I met you, I never jacked-off.
M: Did you hear that,?
A: Yes
M: He said &#8220;Honey, before I met you I never jacked-off.
A: Yes
M: And you have no reason to doubt that, do you?
N: Objection, calls for speculation
A: I have plenty of reason to doubt that
J: Overruled
A: Yes, I do have reason to doubt that
M: And you're basing your previous statements to us about him being with other women on what he told you, right?
A: Um, yes
M: And yet, we have him here telling us that he never jacked-off before he met you, isn't that what he's saying?
A: Yes
M: And so what you're saying is that well I'll believe him when it's to my benefit but I won't believe him when it's not.
N: Objection we're talking about apples and oranges, sex v. masturbation
J: Overruled you may answer the question
A: I don't know because I don't think that's to my benefit or not either way
M: Well, what you're saying is I'll believe him when he tells me that he's having some sort of intimacies with other women, you told us you believe that right?
A: Yeah, I do
M: You believe that without talking to the women, right?
A: Yes
M: Yet when we hear him in court saying that he never masturbated or jacked-off before he met you you're saying you won't believe that, right?
A: Um, based on what he's also told me, that would be no
M: Yes or no
A: Because he has jacked-off
M: Yes or no, you won't believe what he has said then.
A: Um, it wasn't consistent, so no.
M: So no you don't believe that, right?
A: No, I don't believe that
M: And in fact,with regard to this recording, the person recording it is you, right?
A: Yes
M: it wasn't him, right?
A: No
M: And you're saying it was for his benefit, right, that's what you told us on direct examination, right?
A: No, it wasn't for his benefit, it was for us to listen to.
M: It was actually for your benefit wasn't it?
A: No, I don't see how
M: Well, in terms of who had control of it, that was you, right?
A: Control of the recording?
M: Yes, that's what we're talking about, we're talking about a recording that you made on May 8, 2008, are we clear on that?
A: Yes
M: That recording was in your control, wasn't it?
A: Yes
M: It was never in Mr. Alexander's control, was it?
A: No
M: So if anybody was going to enjoy that recording, it was you?
A: No
M:Well, if anybody had it, it was you, then, right?
A: I had it, yes
M: And if anybody wanted to hear it again, that would be, the only person that could do that would be you, right?
A: That's not right
M: How is it that Mr. Alexander could hear it, if you were the only person who had it.
A: That's what we were trying to figure out, how to replay it for him.
M: Ma'am you still had control of it thought, didn't you?
A: For about a week, I did
M: Yes or no, did you have control of it
A: Yes for a week
M: You keep saying a week, did you then give it to him?
A: No, That's not what I'm saying
M: Alright so you did have control of this recording in the sense it was in your telephone, right?
A: Yes
M: It was never in Mr. Alexander's possession, right?
A: No
M: So if anybody wanted to listen to it, they would have to go through you, right?
A: At that time, yes
M: What time do you think are we talking about
A: I'm talking about for the week following the recording, beyond that, the answer would be no
M: You keep referencing that. Did you give the recording to Mr. Alexander after a week?
A: No
M: Did you give this recording to Mr. Alexander after 2 or 3 weeks?
A: No, I never gave it to him
M: That's true so if anybody was going to enjoy this recording, it wasn't Mr. Alexander because he didn't have control of it, right
A: That wasn't the purpose of the recording so that would be no
M: Did I ask you what the purpose of the recording was, ma'am
A: No
M: I asked you if anybody was going to enjoy the fruits of this whatever it was it would have been you, right?
A: It would have been Travis
M: Oh so Travis was going to enjoy it even though he had not control over it, right?
A: I don't know how to answer that
M: Why don't you know how to answer that
A: Because of the way your question
M: Excuse me, you were the one that was in control of it, right?
A: Yes
M: And you were the one that created the recording, right?
A: We both created the recording.
M: Well no that's not true. Was he pushing the button over and over to keep this recording going, or was that you?
A: I was,
M: So you created it then, right?
A: I recorded it, we both created it together
M: No, you recorded it, that's how it came into being, he had nothing to do with the recording, did he?
N: Objection
A: I don't agree with that
J: Overruled
A: No, I don't agree with that
M: So you're saying that somehow he was pushing a button in Mesa and so that this recording came about, is that what you're saying?
A: That's not what I'm saying

M: Well, technologically speaking, Ma'am, the only person that was in control of creating this recording was you ,right?
A: That's correct.
M: And he was a player, if you will, or one of the protagonists in this little little tete-a-tete, whatever went on, correct?
A: That's correct,
M: And so, he didn't even know he was being recorded.
A: That's not correct.
M: Well, does he ever say at any point in that whole recording that we ever hear can you record this for me, he doesn't say that does he?
A: No, it was already recording
M: Ma'am does it ever say in that recording any words from Mr. Alexander anything to the effect that he knows that he's being recorded?
A: Um, I don't think so
M: When you say you don't think so, you were there when it was actually created, right?
A: Yes
M: You were here when it was played, right?
A: Yes
M: So you're familiar with this, right?
A: Yes
M: And nowhere is there any indication that Mr. Alexander even knew that he was being recorded, right?
A: Um, no, I don't think either of us say anything about it being recorded.
M: And you didn't tell him throughout this whole, from what we heard, you didn't tell him he was being recorded, right?
A: I wouldn't have needed to, he already knew
M: Ma'am, yes or no
A: No
M: In recording did you tell him he was being recorded?
A: I answered no
M: So and you have this recording for whatever purposes you wanted to use it, right?
A: Um, yes
M: You could have posted it on the internet if you wanted to, right?
A: In theory, yeah I guess I could have
M: Well, not in, that can be done, you know how to do that, right?
A: No, I didn't know how to get anything of my phone at the time, but if that was my goal I could have figured it out.
M: Sure, and this recording that you had, for whatever reason you chose not to erase it, right?
A: Um not for a week
M: Did you erase it after a week, is that what you're saying?
A: I didn't have the opportunity, so no I didn't erase it after a week
M: Pardon
A: no I didn't
M: And you just said something about you didn't have the opportunity to erase it after a week and if this was on the 10th what happened on May 17th that prevented you from having it erased?
A: Well, it may not have been exactly a week, it may have been the 18th and I believed my phone was stolen and it was actually lost for about, well a few years.
M: So according to you, this phone was stolen for approximately a couple of years, right?
A: Yes, I reported it stolen to the police and I had insurance on the phone so they replaced a new one for me
M: And it resurfaced, right?
A: Yes
M: Well, you know yesterday when we talked about this issue involving recordings and that sort of thing involving specifically involving Mr. Alexander's penis, one of the things you told us was that, well, yes I was the one that downloaded it onto the hard drive of my computer, remember telling us that?
A: Yes
M: If you would have been offended, you could have deleted that photograph, right?
A: If I was offended
M: Yeah, you could have, but you didn't do that, right?
A: Right, I wasn't offended
M: No in terms of this recording, it also gives us a view of into what your views are about the sexual relationship with Mr. Alexander, doesn't it?
A: Yes
M: In face, in it, you indicate that you want to um, blossom sexually, right?
A: Yes
M: And that he's the person that you want help you blossom sexually, correct?
A: I didn't say want, I said I had with him and that I would like to in the future with somebody else.
M: Well let's take a look so that we're totally clear about what you said. Move for the admission of exhibit 493
N: No objections
J: 493 is admitted
(30:43, more sex tape, thank you princesspj):
You&#8217;re, you're not joking I mean like like there are times when when we just I can&#8217;t, I&#8217;m trying to think of an example. There&#8217;s been a few times where I&#8217;ve been bold enough to just pull you onto the bed and start and&#8230;oh my gosh do you remember that time I came to visit you when I was still living in California and I fell asleep on your chair next to your bed and you just like woke me up by pulling my pants off and totally licking my pussy?

Yeah.

I was so embarrassed because I&#8217;d just like got my Brazilian on and I was like worried about what it looked like and I was like aaahhh and the lights were bright and they were on and I was all self conscious <giggle> but I remember that was hot. I was like I was totally tired and I was asleep and I would have been completely content just cuddling with you once we got into bed but <yelp> you had another agenda.

Yeah, you gotta admit though like there&#8217;s not many guys that would do that just for fun like you gotta admit that.

See that&#8217;s the thing like I don&#8217;t know what the ratio is but I get the impression that they&#8217;re I mean this is kind of an awkward subject to bring up but you know eventually we&#8217;re both going to remarry people and I just get the feeling that there aren&#8217;t a lot of Mormon guys like that and there may or may not&#8230;I&#8217;m sure that there are plenty of freaky Mormon girls but are they the marrying type. I shouldn&#8217;t say that, I&#8217;m just saying are they the type that you&#8217;d want to marry or are the guys out there the type that I&#8217;d want to marry and and I don&#8217;t know like I really would like to marry some&#8230;a return missionary but like you someone who can be freaky like I just worry about that. There are plenty of nice people out there but like&#8230;aahhh I worry that I might feel like a wilting flower is all. Who never really blossomed to her full potential at least in the sexual realm. I feel like I have with you but still I have plenty of blossom time left and I want to live all those years being that way I don&#8217;t know.

Yeah.

That&#8217;s all.

Well, I&#8217;m I&#8217;m gonna enjoy your blossoms when I come up there.

Yeah. <giggle>

I&#8217;m going to tie you to a tree and put it in your by the way.

What&#8217;s that?

I&#8217;m going to tie you to a tree and put it in your by the way.

Oh my gosh. That is so debasing. I like it <giggle> there are times when we just we just I'm trying to think of an example, oh my gosh remember that time when you came to visit me and I fell asleep

M: Ma'am you did hear the talk here as it started about a situation where he woke you up in a sexual fashion, didn't you?
A: Yes
M: Do you remember on direct examination telling us that on a previous occasion when he first had vaginal intercourse with you that he woke you up in a similar fashion, right?
A: Well, similar, yes
M: Well, what you told us at that time was that you were asleep, remember telling us that?
A: Yes
M: And he pulled your panties or whatever it was that you were wearing down below, correct?
A: Which time?
M: The time that you claimed that he placed his penis inside you
A: I don't know I was awake for that, my panties were missing.
M: What was that?
A: they were missing when I woke up
M: But you went to bed with them on?
A: Um, I woke up without them still and I had to look for them.
M: Well ma'am do you remember testifying on direct examination that you had your panties on and that he took your panties off, do you remember testifying to that?
A: Yeah, I assumed he took them off
M: Well, I'm not saying, asking you to assume anything right now, I'm asking you whether or not you remember if that's what you testified to.
A: Yes
M: As part of that encounter, one of the things you told us was that he went inside you, right?
A: Yes
M: And he didn't have permission, right?
A: I guess technically not
M: Well not technically, do you remember telling us that?
A: I remember my attorney asking me if my
M: Ma'am, I'm not asking what your attorney asked you, I don't care about his questions, I care about your answers. My question to you, isn't it true that you responded or told us, that he was doing it without your permission and that you didn't like it?
A: I don't remember that, I don't remember characterizing it that way.
M: So you did like it when he was inside you?
A: Um
N: Objection
J: Overruled
A: It wasn't really like or dislike, I was just worried, that's all.
M: You say that you're worried and um, my question to you is if you liked it or didn't like it did you express any preference either way to Mr. Alexander
A: I don't think I did
M: Did you forget what you told us that you did after that?
A: I said his name after that
M: And then after that what do you remember that you told us that you did?
A: He uh, well when I said his name and I tried to get out from underneath him his thrusts quickened and after that we sort of broke apart and he pushed my head under the covers
M: Right, so we are talking about the same encounter , right?
A: Yes
M: and it was consensual, right? Even though you were asleep
N: Objection.
J: Overruled you may answer
A: Well, I didn't object to it
M: Well, if you didn't object to it, it was consensual, right?
N: Objection, she was asleep
J: Approach.

 

[minor4th]

Originally posted by ingra1327


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - *graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**


Travis Alexander-Day 24-Morning cross Pt 2


M: You though it was okay when he did place his penis inside you while you were asleep, right?
A: Yes, maybe not morally but other than that I thought it was okay
M: Ma'am, is it yes
A: It's yes and no, but mostly yes I guess
M: The no part in you,that didn't report it to the police, right?
A: Um, that wouldn't have been the no part, so no
M: So the no part that didn't want it, that didn't get on the telephone and call the police, did it?
A: Of course not, no
M: So the answer's no, you didn't call the police, right?
A: That's the answer
M: You didn't stop the sexual encounter at that point, either, right?
A: Um, I attmepted to stop the intercourse but not the sexual encounter.
M: So the answer's no, you didn't stop the sexual encounter, correct?
A: Correct.
M: In fact you continued on with the sexual encounter until you tell us there was a release on his part, right?
A: Yes
M: You never indicated to him afterwards not to do that, right?
A: No
M: And in fact what we just heard was you lauding him, or praising him, for waking you up and engaging in intercourse, oral intercourse with you, right?
A: Yes
M: So it's the same thing only something different is going into your body without getting to traphic, isn't it?
A: Well I was awake when there was any type of penetration on that account, so it's somewhat similar, I would say.
M: Well no, ma'am do you want to hear this again where you that indicate woke me up by pulling my pants off and licking my pussy?
A: Yes
M: So he did wake you up in the same fashion, didn't he?
A: Um, I was awoken as my pants were coming off so yeah similar, yes.
M: You didn't have any problem with that, right
A: I was embarrassed, but other than that, no
M: When you say you were embarrassed you weren't embarrassed because of the sexual act you were embarrassed because of the fact that you had a new cosmetic approach to your pelvic area
A: Yes and the lights were bright, yes
M: But other than that, you didn't have any objection to it, right?
A: That's right
M: And you wanted to continue to blossom, right?
A: Um, yes
M: And you wanted to blossom sexually, right?
A: Yes
M: So when were hear for example that there was this situation where of the many that you've described where he comes over to your house on the porch and you guys do whatever it is that you do, that's part of the blossoming process, isn't it?
A: Um I would say so
M: And all of the activity that occurred between you two, for example this telephone call that occurred between two consenting adults that all part of the blossoming process
A: I guess so
M: Well no, you were there, right?
A: I'm talking about sex and I didn't have sex while I was on the phone, so
M: And you told us that for you it takes two hands, right?
A: Yeah
M: And so with regard to this particular conversation you just didn't have any fun at all, right?
A: I didn't say that
M: Well, your words and your demeanor speak for themselves on the telephone, correct?
A: Yes
M: And one of the other things that we know from that conversation in terms of your blossoming was that you and Mr. Alexander discussed making a movie, right?
A: Yes
M: And you discussed making a sexual movie, right?
A: yes
M: And it wasn't like you were telling him no, I don't want to do that sexual movie, you were into it as much as he was, right?
A: Yes
M: And in fact as part of sexual blossoming, there were other things that you asked him to do for you didn't you?
A: Yes
M: Let's take a look at some of them. Take a look at exhibit 494. Recognize that?
A: Yes
M: These are two text messages that you sent to Mr. Alexander, correct?
A: Yes
M: What is the date of them?
A: February 25th
M: And there is a time there, but as you previously told us when you were on direct, that time is seven hours ahead of what the real time is, correct?
A: That's correct.
M: I move for the admission of exhibit 494.
N: No objection
J: 494's admitted
M: Let's take a look at what 494 says.
(43:25)
M: This is you sending him this text message, right?
A: Yes
M: And this was part of the relationship that you had with him, right?
A: That's right
M: There was a sexual component, wasn't there
A: Yes
M: And it was always a component that you partook of as much as he did, right?
A: Yes
M: And in it you say Hmm..if ur a lucky boy and u promise to give me a good well-deserved spanking. And there's a period there, right?
A: Yes
M: And then you also say Maybe u could give my a much-needed pounding too..kidding, correct?
A: Yes.
M: You're kidding about the second portiong, but not the first portion, correct?
A: Yes.
M: Take a look at exhibit 495. Do you recognize that series of text messages?
A: Yes
M: And those also involve some sexual activities between the two of you?
A: Um, well, yes, one's we're anticiating.
M: Pardon?
A: One's we're planning
M: The date on this is February 26 of 08
A: 26th?
M: Well let me have you look at it, at least that's what it says.
A: Um, it would have been the 25th, but it is, it says the 26th.
M: And that would be because of the seven hour issu that we talked about before.
A: That's right.
M: I move for the admission of exhibit 495.
N: No objection
J: 495 is admitted.
M: Take a look at exhibit 495. You start off by saying &#8220;Oh my gosh this is so freaking hot I want to lick it up and then sit on it! You are so tasty. My goodness...correct?
A: Yes
M: You were talking about his penis, correct?
A: Yes, he sent me a photo.
M: And it does appear he sent you a photo , correct?
A: Yes
M: And you weren't offended by him sending you a photograph, correct?
A: No
M: Even though we had a photograph here that was introduced, it was the same sort of photograph that was introduced at trial, right?
A: Yes
M: Nothing different than the one that was here, that was introduced, in other words it was his penis and whatever was happening with it.
A: In that regard, yes nothing was different.
M: And in fact, he then said &#8220;I'm glad you like it&#8221;, right?
A: Yes
M: And then you said: Oh yes. I want to f*ck you like a dirty, horny little school girl, right?.
A: Yes
M: So the school girl issue here in this conversation is being brought up by you, not by him, right?
A: That's right.
M: And in fact this issue about the school girl that may have been presented as part of ths conversation on May 10 of 2008, well you were enjoying it too, weren't you?
A: I don't think he said school girl on the tape
M: Pardon
A: I don't think I said school girl on the tape, but as far as that goes, yes
M: You liked dressing up like a horny little school girl for lack of a better term, right?
A: Well, I think I said on direct, I didn't have a school girl outfit, but that was kindof the idea.
M: You did enjoy dressing up for him, right?
A: Um, yes
M: And you enjoyed at least indicated here, in February of 2008 that it had to do with looking like a little school girl, correct?
A: Um, I guess so yeah.
M: Well, no you keep saying you guess so, but isn't that what you wrote?
A: I didn't say look in that text message
M: Pardon
A: You said looking like and I don't see that in the text message
M: Alright, so let's read it: I want to f*ck you like a dirty, horny, little school girl. So that implies that you are dressed up in a certain fashion, right?
A: Um, yes
M: And it also implies or indicates that it's you that's the person that likes this sort of activity and looking like a horny, little school girl, right?
A: yes
M: Although we heard previously some talk about braids and that it was only him that wanted that, it was a consensual, mutual relationshp sexually speaking, wasn't it?
A: Yes, always.
M: This, again this issue involving the idea that there was going to be a movie and what was going to happen in the movie, part of it took place during a conversation that you had on May 10, 2008, right?
A: Yes
M: And it can be characterized as phone sex, correct?
A: Yes
M: And it can also be fair to say that what people say during phone sex isn't necessarily true, wouldn't you agree to that?
A: I would agree to that
N: Objection , calls for speculation
J: Sustained, rephrase
M: Well, ma'am in your own phone sex part of the conversation with Mr. Alexander, according to your own testimony, part of it was a lie wasn't it?
A: are you talking about how he never jerked off ?

M: No, I'm talking about what you said in that conversation. What you said part of what was going on was a lie, wasn't it?
A: Um, yes part of it was a lie.
M: Sure it was a lie, right?
A: And so , at least if we're using this conversation as a point of reference, people, you and Mr. Alexander, but you specifically, you lied to him, right?
A: I did.
M: And there was no harm in it because it was just a fantasy kind of conversation, wasn't it?
A: Yeah, it was just fantasy.
M: Right, so that if he said he wanted to tie you up to a tree and stick it up your , that could also be seen as fantasy, right?
A: Yes.
M: That never happened, did it?
A: No
M: Talking about, for example, these things about the movie and this sort of thing, whether or not you believed it, it was part of the fantasy of that conversation, wasn't it?
A: Yes
M: So for example, if we just listen to one of these snippets, or one of these exchanges, we can see that perhaps it's just all a fantasy. Let me have this marked for exhibit here. I move for the admission of exhibit 496.
N: No objection
J: 496 is admitted.
(51:28)M: And ma'am before we listen to it, in this particular excerpt you actually indicate that you believe that maybe the making of this movie could be artistic. I want you to listen to it.
Plays tape: J: all I'm saying is I'm kind of envisioning one where you're titty-f*cking me but like I'm looking with my head tilted back so you couldn't really see but the outline of my chin and my cheek and jawbone and like my ears and hair, but you can't really see the rest of my face you could just see a dick between two like in of focus but with the neck sort of a little bit blurry, like artistic. You know what I'm saying? T: Uh, great J: I don't know if we could do that cuz your legs might to be in the spot where the camera would be but one of these days we should do something like that ooh, I've got some more ideas, go ahead. T: Worse case scenario, we could do it from the reverse angle J: mm hmm T: Like J: but you'd still blow in my face and put your , you have a good looking dick, baby, just want you to know. T:Glad you like it. J. Yeah, it's like ooh,...feels so good, you went just where I needed, you went were I just needed, I want to f*ck you so ..&#8221;

M: You said it could be an artistic endeavor, right?
A: Yes
M: And in fact, that comes from the fact that you like to take photographs, correct?
A: Yes
M: And that's sort of one side of your life that you have, correct?
A: Yes
M: And so, again, the fact that you're talking about it doesn't mean you're going to do it, right?
A: Um, we were kind of tentatively planning it, but I don't know if we were actually going to do it or not.
M: right it was a situation again, sometimes when people are involved in a sexual situation like what this appears to be they get caught up in the heat of the moment and they say things that are related to what's going on, correct?
A: I would agree with that.
M: Ma'am, and during this conversation you and he actually discussed whether or not you guys should stop this particular activity having sex, didn't you?
A: Um, stop having sex?
M: Or stop having sex, stop having phone sex that sort of thing?
A: I think we did, yes.
M: Well let's hear what you actually say. Move for the admission of exhibit 497
N: No objection
J: 497 is admitted
(55:32)
Tape plays (thanks princesspjs): Oh <<unintelligible>>*

<<unintelligible>>*

Yeah well, I haven&#8217;t come but I will. I can&#8217;t wait to get pictures of jism on your face

<<yelp>> That&#8217;s gonna be cool actually.

We can probably get one <<unintelligible>> on each other on your face and then&#8230;

Yeah, definitely.

I can get the shot.

Uh huh&#8230;.you make me so horny. I seriously think about having sex with you every day. Several times a day. I think of how hot it&#8217;d feel to have your deep inside of me. I remember it and I want it again.

Is it wrong that I&#8217;m glad we started ****ing?

What?

Is it wrong that I&#8217;m glad we started ****ing?

Well, if it&#8217;s wrong then I don&#8217;t want to be right <<giggle>> &#8216;cause I&#8217;m glad too. Like seriously&#8230;

Generally I&#8217;m like ok um Jodi I&#8217;m just Jodi I&#8217;m just all Jodi, Jodi

Like I, like I I don&#8217;t know the&#8230;what&#8217;s wrong is that I wish we were doing it before because&#8230;

Yeah.

&#8230;that was good and it it&#8230;

Once we did it like, why not do it ya know

Exactl&#8230;uh I know what you mean.&#8221;

M: It appears there's a bit of a conflict because the two of you keep engaging in sexual activity, is that correct?
A: That's correct.
M: Whether it be by telephone or whether it be in person, correct?
A: Yes
M: And this issue involving you and he having sex, it also created a conflict for him, right?
A: Yes
M: And you knew that it had to do with the LDS faith, right?
A: Yes
M: And you were also LDS and that created a conflict for you to, correct?
A: Yes.
M: And so it wasn't a situation that it was a secret to both of you that perhaps, since you are both members of the LDS faith, this was not you should be engaging in, right?
A: That's right.
M: But neither of you cared, right?
N: Objection, calls for speculation
J: sustained
M: Ma'am, you still continued to engage in sexual activities with him even though you had this conflict, didn't you.
A: Yes
M: And even though he says he has this conflict here, he still continued to have sex with you, right?
A: Yes
M: So even though you were two conflicted persons, you still continued to engage in this activity, right?
A: That's what the conflice was about.
M: Right, and in fact you even had a description of the two of you didn't you in that conversation that we just hear in May of 2008. Let's here what you said. I move for the admission of 498.
N: No objection
J: 498 is admitted
Tape plays: (some paraphrased) that's right... hang on I thought I just heard somebody, let me double check. I think it was my charger. Alright, we're good. I've got a disappear , let me get back into the groove. T: the pictures I'm gonna take are so hot, J: What are we gonna do with ourselves, we are just horny toads.
M: Ma'am that's just an acknowledgment there that both of you are into each other sexually, correct?
A: That's correct
M: And there's no indication from anything that we've heard that you were offended by sexual, physical, sexual activity, that was going on, right?
A: Right
M: It may have been a conflict, but the two of you enjoyed each other, or at least you enjoyed him as much as it appeared he was enjoying you?
A: Yes
M: And you had at least that kind of a relationship to the point that you actually had a name for him, or pet name for him, didn't you?
A: Yes
M: Let me show you this. Take a look at exhibit 499
(1:01:30)
M: do you recognize it?
A: Yes
M: It's a text message that you sent, right?
A: Yes
M: What's the date?
A: The date its the 21st, actually it would have been the 20th of January.
M: And um, you're saying it was the 21st of January because of the time difference, correct?
A: Yes, it was the 20th, but it shows the 21st.
M: Move for the admission of exhibit 499
N: No objection
J: 499 is admitted
M: and that's you sending him a message saying Hey hottie biscotti will you call me before you hit the sack, right?
A: Yes
M: I have a question about tomorrow morning, thanks my dear. Correct?
A: That's correct
M: And you actually called him hottie biscotti, correct?
A: Yes
M: In part because he was, in part because he was special to you, correct?
A: Yes
M: An apparently at that time you were in love with him, right?
A: I believed I was, Yes
M: And it's something that two people that are intimate have in common, right?
A: Yes
M: But he really wasn't that special to you, was he?
A: I wouldn't say that
M: Well, lets take a look at another exhibit. 287. This is to Ryan Burns. You see that, it says ryansppl, gmail,
A: Right
M: your me, you see that?
A: Yes
M: And you say to him at some point before you go meet him, hey hottie biscotti, what's new, right?
A: Yes
M: Isn't that the same thing that you called Mr. Alexander
A: Yes, I called a lot of people that
M: So what you're saying is that when you called Mr. Alexander that, it didn't mean anything
A: I wouldn't say it was meaningliess, no
M: It could also mean that when you started calling Mr. Burns hottie biscotti was that Mr. Alexander didn't really mean that much to you?
A: That's not what it meant.
M: But it could though, based on what we've seen.
N: Objection, argumentative, she's answered the question
J: Sustained
M: You called them both by the same name, right?
A: Yes
M: And you only had one encounter with Mr. Burns, correct?
A: Um, well I met him once and then I saw him again so it would be twice, but if you're talking about the physical encounter
M: Right
A: then one time I guess, unless you count shaking his hand, which I guess that doesn't really count.
M: Pardon , I didn' thear what you said
A: I'm sorry, unless you count we shook hands and spoke briefly, I don't even really remember it so it was pretty brief, but
M: In terms of one-on-one
A: Yes that would be one time
M: One time right
A: Yes
M: And you're already calling him hottie biscotti at least through this instant messaging things, right?
A: That's right
M: And exhibit number 286 it tells us a little bit more about what actually happened when you went to see him. I want you to go down here and read what it says starting with the &#8220;Ha-ha&#8221; if you can read it, if not I'll bring it down . Go ahead and read it out loud.
A: It says haha well we woke up we sat there for a bit and then we held each other and then we started to kiss. Then you said I could not be comfortable and you adjusted me
M: So it does say that you said to him that he could not be comfortable and you adjusted him, right?
A: Yes
M: And then what else does it say, it's above it.
A: Then you pressed your body really close to mine and started to kiss me.
M: So he was, you were on top of him, weren't you?
A: Yes, well, kind of on top of him off to the side a little, I think to the left.
M: But you did start to press your body close to him, right?
A: Yes
M: And then you say what , it's right above it
A: Well, I think it's out of order but I say well I would gladly give it to you.
M: And then right above it he asks
A: Can I ask what else you might give me?
M: and your answer is?
A: You can ask, but you'll have to wait and see for that one.
M: bottom line, you're sort of already involved in the same give and take that you were with Mr. Alexander, correct?
A: Yes

 

[minor4th]

Originally posted by ingra1327


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - *graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**


Travis Alexander-Day 24-Morning cross Pt 3


M: Ma'am there's a number of stories that you gave in this particular case involving the killing. There was one that you gave on the 15th of July of 2008 to Det. Flores, right?
A: Yes
M: There's another one that you gave on July 16th of 2008 to Det. Flores, right?
A: Yes
M: But then, you still gave another view of what happened to 48 hours, right?
A: Um, I think I was inconsistent in my lies, yes.
M: So let's take a look at what you may have said to 48 Hours. I move for the admission of exhibit 500.
N: No objection
J: 500 is admitted.
48 Hours plays: You feel comfortable talking about it. J: Yeah. Let me talk about um I'll talk about this and nobody knows this, the detectives know this because I've spoken with them. Boy this is really hard. Uh, I'm trying to think if I want to say this or not. There is a lot of evidence that places me at Travis's house the day he was, not just the day he was, um, killed, the day and most of that week, and there is a reason for that and that reason is that I did see Travis the day that he passed away and a lot of things happened that day, I almost lost my life as well and I was told that I can't speak about it or tell anyone about it because my family's life was in danger over it. Um, I was told that if I did that they would all die, and that I would die and that was kind of the end of the story. Um, There was an argument among some people um, two individuals, one wanted to take my life and one said you know, that's not why we came and um, um, at one point, the guy with the gun sort of sucamb (sic) to her pressure because he was holding the gun to my forehead and I was on the ground on my knees and um I was near the armoire where he kept his TV in his bedroom and Travis was in the bathroom and she was standing over Travis and the guy with the gun was standing near me and again this argument was going on back and forth and I just remember holding my head and closing my eyes, um, and then there was so much that went on that day, but the short of it was that he pulled the trigger and nothing happened, just a click. And um, I realized then that he probably if that means that he was out of bullets, or I don't know what that means. I wasn't that familiar with handguns and so, um, at that point I pushed past him and I ran downstairs. He didn't make that much of an effort to stop me, but I could almost swear I heard someone following me down the stairs and I ran out the front door and I got into my car and I drove and I left.
M: Ma'am nowhere in that recitation or in any of the interviews that you gave to 48 Hours did you ever claim that you had memory loss, correct?
A: That's correct
M: In fact you gave a slightly different version of the same event to 48 hours on another occasion, didn't you?
A: Yes, I couldn't keep my story straight.
M: I move for the admission of exhibit 501
N: No objection
J: 501 is admitted
(1:14:40)
48 Hours: JA: Um, Again, I was looking down and going through some photos um he is really critical of himself, um, you know we're all our worst critics. And so some pictures he liked and some he didn't and again I heard a loud pop and I was hit on the back of the head. I don't think I was out very long but when I came to I was kind of laying next to the bathtub and the bathtub and the shower are kind of next to each other and um, Travis was on all fours on the tile, I say all fours, but one of hands was actually holding his head and I mean he wasn't laying down or anything he was kind of one his knees and his hands and at that point I looked over toward the entrance of the bathroom to the hallways and two people were walking down the hallway and I ran into the closet and I was gonna run out the other door. but he stopped me with the gun. When you have a gun pointed to your forehead just do anything so he told me to get down on my squatting on my knees by the armoire. And um he left the room for a minute, maybe a few minutes and she was in the bathroom standing over Travis and I charged her I ran down the hall and I pushed her as hard as I could and she fell over him and landed near the sink, there's two sinks in the master bathroom, she landed near the, um, left sink , kind of near the trashcan , close to the windows and, um, I started to pull on him and I said come on, come on, let's go, let's go, and um he just wasn't, he was sluggish and lethargic, he just wasn&#8217;t getting up he wasn't really saying much of anything, he was there and he was conscious , I could see that. He wasn't saying much, I was able to get him about half, he was sort of, not crawling, but he was kind of moving, trying to stand up, I was able to get him about half way down the hallway when she came back at me and we struggled for a few minutes and again she was doing what she could to overpower me. And she was kicking me and she was stomping on my feet and she was trying to kick my knees and I was kind of bending them and trying to do what I could and he came back in the room and I had to go back to where I was sitting and stay there and that's when they both began to argue about whether or not I should die. And, um there was an argument that went on back and forth between them for several minutes,at least felt like several minutes and he didn't want to and she did and she kept saying why they should and he kept saying that's not why we came here and (big sigh) um, you know, after he had gone through my purse again he finally just pulled the trigger and I thought honestly that it's over and it's the weirdest feeling to think that it's gonna be over at any second and someone pulls the trigger and you're still there. And um at that point, I just, I just ran. I pushed right past him and I flew down the stairs. I wasn't even in my body, I think...,I was, but everything felt numb. I was hyperventilating.. my heart was racing and so even as I went down the stairs there was part of me like my brain was telling my legs don't screw up you're gonna fly down these stairs and you're not gonna get away, so I just did the best not to stumble down these stairs and just I went out as fast as I could and then out the door and slammed it behind me and got in the car and left.
M: And that's another version of the events that occurred on June 4th 2008, correct?
A: Yes
M: And they're not true.
A: Neither of them, well it's all the same thing, it's just different versions, I couldn't keep my lies straight.
M: So the answer is they're not true, right?
A: Neither of them, yes.
M: Ma'am you did also continue to talk to 48 hours about coming to Mesa, remember talking to them about that?
A: Um, yes
M: And do you remember talking to them about what your plans were in Mesa, do you remember that?
A: Yes
M: The reason that you came out to Mesa, you didn't have a plan initially, correct?
A: Do you mean on June 4th?
M: Pardon
A: Are you talking about June 4th.
M: I'm talking about when you left Yreka
A: What was your question, I'm sorry
M: My question is, according to you, you didn't have any plans to come to Mesa, initially, um when you left Yreka, correct?
A: That's correct
M: That's something that you told 48 hours, correct?
A: Yes
M: Let's take a look at what you told them. I move for the admission of exhibit 502.
N: No objection
J: 502 is admitted.
(1:21:41)
48 Hours: So tell me about this trip on this particular day, did you plan that in advance or. No, I'm really like go by the wind when I take my road trips. I usually plan more than I can actually do and cross some off my list when I feel I can. So on this last trip my plan was to go to Monterey, to Los Angeles to San Diego to Utah, and then over to Death Valley and then back up to Yreka and it certainly didn't go anything like that ,it went Santa Cruz, then Monterey, and then I went to LA and Pasadena and I skipped San Diego. And it was when I was in Pasadena that night that I decided to go to Mesa. Travis had learned about my road trip about a week prior and he has this way of kind of guilting me, um, not in a bad way, just like making me sort of feel bad, and he said why don't you come to Mesa instead and you can visit me, and I said no I have other things I need to do and other people. I didn't exactly say it in that way because you have to be delicate about it, otherwise he would take offense I think. And so he would say things like okay, I see how it is, you don't love me, just as a joke thought. And so it just kinda pulls on my heart strings a little and again I was weak and I folded and I decided to go so I called him when I was in Pasadena and said guess what and he was what and I said I'm coming to Mesa and he said really., I said yeah, he said alright, cool. We hung up the phone and I drove and said you don't have to wait up for me because I was in Pasadena and that's probably a good 5 hours and something to Mesa and as well as that my phone was about to die so I just said if I don't speak to you again until I get there, that's why. And so I showed up around 4 am and he was still awake he stayed up all night, he was on the internet looking up videos on you tube, some silly videos and we watched some more videos for a little while and I was just exhausted from the drive so we just went to sleep and you know.
M: With regard to the videos that he was looking about we've heard something about Quicker, Faster, Stronger, something like that? They weren't of any sexual nature, were they?
A: No,
M: In fact, as you've described it, it was some people with weird or funny head-gear that were just dancing around is how you described it
A: Yeah, It looked that way.
M: So you actually left Yreka on June 2nd of 2008, right?
A: Yes
M: And prior to that though, you made some preparations, didn't you?
A: Yes
M: You made a reservation to rent a car, right?
A: right
M: And the reservation to rent the car was made not in Yreka but in some other place
A: It was made online, oh I'm sorry in Redding, for Redding, yes
M: Right, and Yreka does have some rental car companies, correct?
A: That's correct
M: And in fact what happened was that when you went to Redding you even had to, for lack of a better term, inconvenience someone else to take you to get the car, to get the rental car to take you back to their house, right?

A: That's right
M: And it would have been much more convenient in Yreka, to go rent the car in Yreka, wouldn't it?
A: Not for my bank account
M: When you say not for your bank account, you're talking about financial reasons, right?
A: Right
M: And um how much money did you take with you in cash?
A: I don't recall but it was probably a few hundred. I think
M: So when you say a few hundred are you talking about two hundred?
A: Maybe that not much more somewhere in that ballpark it was between 80 and 200 dollars.
M: So it's between 80 and 200 dollars, maximum being 200 dollars, right?
A: I think I don't really remember as far as cash
M: Could it have been 300 dollars
A: It could have, I don't remember having that much case on me, but I guess it could have.
M: If you don't remember having that much cash on you, then it wasn't three hundred dollars, right?
A: It just means I don't remember, probably not.
M: and so previously during the direct examination you told us that when you go on these trips you don't take more than 200 dollars, do you remember telling us that?
A: Yeah, that's typical.
M: Well in this particular case, I had financial issues so I decided to rent out of redding because it was cheaper, right?
A: That's right.
M: But it would have been more convenient though to rent in Yreka, right?
A: Convenient for who?
M: You
A: No
M: In terms of picking up the car it wouldn't have been convenient
A: Um, no
M: Well, Yreka you told us is a small town, right?
A: Yes
M: And everyone sort of knows everyone, right?
A: Um, that's pretty much the case
M: And the other thing you told us about Yreka is that everybody knows everybody's business there, right?
A: Um, usually
M: Right, and in fact, one of the examples that you gave us of where people in Yreka know what is going on is the example of when you were 17 and you went to, or you skipped a class do you remember telling us that?
A: Um ,yes
M: It was a history exam that you had to prepare for, right?
A: That's right
M: And you indicated that you went somewhere n the car and you were studying, right?
A: Yes
M: And while you were studying, your father found you, right?
A: Yes
M: And one of the explanations or reasons that you gave for that is that Yreka is a very small town, right?
A: I don't remember giving that explanation because that isn't how, why he found me.
M: well, you indicated that you don't know how you found you, right?
A: I knew how he found me?
M: Well that not what you told us on direct examination
A: Oh, I mean I knew why he went looking for me, how he found me is he was just driving around.
M: Ma'am, that's not what you told us on direct examination.
A: I don't remember
M: Again, do you have problems remembering what you just told us less than a couple weeks ago?
A: Occasionally I guess
M: And in this particular case you're having problems remember how your father found you, right?
A: I'm having problems with the way your characterizing it I guess.
M: Well, again, we're going to get in this word exchange issue, but my question to you is o you remember telling us on direct examination that Yreka's a small town and that's part of the reason your father found you, do you remember telling us that?
A: Yes
M: and so Yreka in 2008 is not much bigger than it was in 1997 or 1998 when this happened.
A: no I think it's about 1000 more in population
M: Right it's only 1000 more in population, in other words it's not a town that's exploding in terms population, right?
A: Yes.
M: It is or it is not.
A: That's right I'm sorry.
M: So that people in Yreka if someone does something, more likely than not, they may meet someone that they know, right?
N: Objection calls for speculation
J: Overruled
A: Yes
M: so for example if you went to one of the two, either of the two car rental agencies that are in Yreka, somebody may have been able to know or talk about it later if they were asked about it.
A: Perhaps, people didn't know me though because I hadn't lived there for 10-15 years.
M: But they may have, right?
A: Some, a few high school friends or something
M: again, it's not a very large town, right?
A: Yes
M: the population is what, 11 thousand
A: I think it's 7.000
M: 7,000
A: 7 thousand something
M: And you at the time back on June 2 of 2008, you were working, right?
A: Um, yes
M: And in this town there aren't that many bars, right
A: I think there alike 5 or 6 bars
M: right, and there isn't one called Margaritaville, right?
A: No, there's not
M: You worked at Casa Ramos, right?
A: Yes
M: And this was going to be part of your vacation, right?
A: the road trip, yes
M: The road trip was your vacation, right?
A: It was partially vacation, partially business trip.
M: When you say partially business trip what you're saying is for example that if you went to buy gas that's something that could be deductible, right?
A: If it was for the business purpose, it would be deductible
M: In fact since you were going to go to Utah, going to a gas station it would make sense to save the receipts so that you could deduct them from your income taxes, right?
A: That's right
M: In this particular case it wouldn't matter whether or not you paid cash or you paid with a credit card, right?
A: Um, it wouldn't matter for tax purposes, right?
M: Right as long as you have the receipts, right?
A: Right
M: So in this case you did pay ,at least, attention to the receipts that you got for example from the gas station, right
A: What do you mean pay attention
M: Kept them
A: I threw everything in the shoe box
M: Right, you threw everything in the shoe box pertaining to this trip, right?
A: Yes
M: All of the receipts from this trip were thrown in this shoe-box that we've seen previously, right
A: No probably not all of it, just whatever was left in my wallet.
M: But you were trying to pay attention to keep the receipts that were related to business expense, right?
A: I'm very disorganized, but that was my effort
M: that's what you were attempting to do, right?
A: Yes
M: And so you did save some of the receipts for this particular trip, right?
A: Yes
M: and so you are in Yreka and you decide instead to rent the car from Redding Ca, right?
A: Yes
M: And that's south of Yreka, correct?
A: Yes, on the way
M: It is on the way, but it's south, right
A: Yes
M: And it's what, 90 miles away?
A: I think it's 99 miles
M: So in terms of travel we're talking about what close to two hours?
A: Just under two hours, I think
M: Um on this particular day that you left on June 2 2008 you left the house around 5:00 in the morning right?
A: I think so it was very early in the morning.
M: Well you were at the redding airport by 8:00 weren't you?
A: Yes
M: Did you get there before 8:00 and just wait around or did you get there at that time.
A: I don't remember waiting, well I waited a little bit because there was a line but not waiting for them to open
M: And somebody was with you correct?
A: Um, yes
M: A guy was with you, right?
A: I can't remember if it was my brother's neighbor or my sister-in-law, so either one of them dropped me off and picked me up or vice versa
M: What your saying they dropped you off or picked you up what you're saying is they did not get out of the car that took you to the redding airport, correct?
A: Um, I don't remember
M: You don't remember whether or not they went up to the counter with you?
A: I think I was alone
M: You were here when Mr. Columbo testified correct as to whether or not you were accompanied
A: Yes
M: And so what time did you arrive at this would be your sister's house, right?
A: Um, yes
M: what time did you get there?
A: um before renting the car you mean?
M: Yes, that was the only time you got there on June 2nd, correct?
A: No, I got there with the rental car and took a nap.
M: pardon
A: no I went back to her house.
M: Alright the first time before you rented the car.
A: In the morning, I don't remember the exact time.
M: and they knew you were coming, correct?
A: Yes
M: And so they were ready to then take you down to the airport, right?
A: Yes
M: and then they dropped you off and you went to pick up the car, right?
A: I believe they did, yes.
M: And one of the things that happened is you were given a car, or rented a car by Mr. Columbo, right?
A: Yes
M: and the car that he offered you initially was red, right?
A: Yes
M: And you told him that you didn't want the red car, right?
A: That's right
M: And the reason that you told him that you didn't want the red car was because it would call attention or it would stand out more, correct.
A: No
M: didn't you tell them that you did want to exchange the car, though, right?
A: Yes
M: And you told them that red is the color that police officers focus on.
A: Um
M: Is that yes or no?
A: I&#8221;m trying to remember. I don't know if I worded it that way.
M: So you did give him a reason why you didn't want that car, right?
A: Yes
M: And part of it had to do with the color, right?
A: yes
M; You didn't want the color red?
A: yes
M: The color red seems to stand out, doesn't it?
A: I don't know, I just heard they get more tickets.
M: Right, So it had to do with the police department , right? You did not want to stand out and that's why you wanted a different color.
A: not the police department because I would be on the freeway, I just didn't want to get more tickets and red gets more tickets.
M: who do you think gives traffic citations then?
A: Um on the freeways in California, it's California Highway Patrol.
M: That's police, aren't they
A: I don't think they're police, they're law enforcement, but not categorized as police, not to my knowledge anyway
M: So if there's a crime you're saying that the California Highway Patrol doesn't respond to them?
A: They respond to them as well maybe the sheriffs office or something, depends on the district I would imagine.
M: So you're afraid that police, whether it's the California Highway Patrol or somebody driving down the street that they would focus on your car because you heard that police give more tickets involving red cars, right?
A: Afraid, I wasn't afraid, I just didn't want to shell out more money for tickets.
M: Right, so afraid may not be the word that you like, what word would you like, concern?
A: Um, I don't know
M: No, you're the one that said afraid wasn't the right word, why don't you tell me what word you would use in describing your reluctance to taking a red car.
A: Um, it was motivated by financial frugality.
M: Well you're telling us that the red car was cheaper than the white car.
A: No, in theory I would be less likely to get a speeding ticket and shell out hundreds of dollars if I were not in a red car.
M: So what you are saying then, a red car in your view, because of the color, stands out more to police departments, whether they be California Highway Patrol, whether they be the Salinas Police Department, whether they be the redding Police department.
A: Well I'd be speculating but I guess that's why they get more tickets, I don't know
M: Well no I don't want you to guess because I want you to tell us what you were thinking at the time because you were the one that made this request involving the red car.
A: well, my thought is driver's of red cars driver faster get more tickets, that's just what I've always been told.
M: but that's what other drivers do, you were supposedly going to adhere to the speed limit or within 10 miles of it, right?
A: Um, usually, I tried
M: So if you do that you really shouldn't have too much of a concern for a traffic citation, right?
A: Um, that's not right, I've been cited before when the radar was off.
M: How many times have you been cited for speeding, ma'am when your speed was over 10 miles an hour over the speed limit?
A: Several times
M: Give me one time
A: One time I was driving on Hwy 1 south of Carmel or just entering Carmel Islands I think I was going 60 something in a 50 and I got pulled over and he said 70
M: Let me stop you, you said you were going 60-something in a 50 mph zone, right?
A: Yes
M: That means you were going over the 10 mile issue that I just presented you
A: Yes
M: So in other words can you give me an example where you were driving the speed limit or within 9 miles of the speed limit where you were given a ticket.
N: Objection, relevance, your honor.
J: Noon recess

 

[minor4th]

Originally posted by ingra1327

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - *graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**

Last day of cross afternoon part 1


M: Ma'am take a look at exhibit 78. and, uh, you indicated that you were in this vicinity here with your head in this direction when Mr. Alexander was in this vicinity sort of next to you, correct?
A: Yes
M: And you indicated that you were able to get up, right?
A: Yes
M: He was within a foot of you, wasn't he?
A: That sounds right, I don't know, but that sounds right.
M: Well he was in an arm's length, he could have touched you if he wanted to, right?
A: I think so, he would have had to reach down, I guess.
M: Pardon. I can't hear you, pull the microphone up or
A: He would have to reach down because I was on the ground but he was within arm's reach.
M: Or, he could have kicked you if he wanted to, he was that close.
A: Yes, he was that close
M: And you were able to get up, right?
A: After rolling, I got up.
M: So you rolled, then right?
A: Yes
M: You were able to get up
A: Yes
M: And he was standing right there
A: In the same place, but I pulled away
M: And you began to run, right?
A: Yes
M: And he began to run after you, correct?
A: I heard his footsteps, I didn't look.
M: You didn't tell us about, in fact when you testified prior to trial you told us that you didn't know if he was coming after you.
A: prior to trial?
M: Prior, this morning when you testified . Do you remember testifying this morning?
A: Yeah, I didn't know for certain, cause I didn't look back.
M: Ma'am my question to you is do you remember testifying this morning?
A: Yes
M: And remember we discussed this issue about going down the highway, do you remember that?
A: Yes
M: And you had no idea where he was.
N: Objection
J: Overruled you may answer
A: I didn't say that
M: You said that you didn't know if he followed you because you weren't paying attention, do you remember that?
A: Um, I no I don't remember saying I didn't know, I remember saying I wasn't sure.
M: And that you didn't know, you said that you didn't hear him. You didn't say anything about hearing him, did you?
A: I didn't say that I heard him, I didn't say that I didn't hear him.
M: So you're now saying that you did hear him coming after you, right?
A: I'm saying I thought I heard footsteps coming after me.
M: Well, when you said you think it implies that you're not sure. Did you or did you not hear footsteps going down the hallway
A: I think I did.
M: Okay so you heard footsteps, that means he's running after you doesn't it.
A: That's what I believed
M: All we care about is what you believe in so you say that you hear his footsteps, right?
A: Yes
M: So he is coming after you, right?
A: Yes he is
M: Makes you scared, right?
A: Very
M: And you're saying that this individual that's in shape is not able to catch you before you turn the corner to go into the closet
A: He did not
M: That's what you're saying that he wasn't fast enough to do it, right?
A: Um, that's right
M: And you slammed the door, right?
A: I did
M: You can't see through the door, right?
A: That's correct
M: So how do you know he's still mad?
A: Cause Travis never calmed down that quickly.
M: Ma'am you couldn't see through the door at his expression on his face, could you?
A: That's correct
M: You couldn't see his eyes, correct?
A: correct
M: and so you're inside this closet, right?
A: Yes
M: And you don't know what he's doing outside according to you, right?
A: That's right
M: So even though you don't know what he's doing outside, you claim you go for a weapon, right?
A: Not immediately, my thought was to run through the other door first.
M: So then you sad around and waited, there was a period of time here you waited?
A: No, it all happened very quickly
M: okay well then I thought you said that you thought, or that you took some time to think this out.
A: It was like instantaneous, I thought as soon as I slammed the door I was gonna run through the other door and in a split second, I realized where the gun was and I went to grab it so I could protect myself.
M: So you're inside this closet, right? And you're ahead of him, aren't you. In other words he's on the other side of the door.
A: that was my thought
M: Ma&#8217;am I'm not asking you what your thinking was, I'm asking you if it was true that he was outside the door.
A: Well, I don't know where he was, I shut the door
M: Well, he was somewhere in the bedroom, right?
A: I don't know, he could have been in the bedroom or running down the hallway to meet me at the other door.
M: Bottom line is he wasn't in the closet with you is what you're telling us.
A: Yes that's right
M: And you don't know what he's doing during that period of time that he's out there, right?
A: Um, I
M: Yes or no, do you know what he's doing during while he's out there?
A: Specify which period of time your referring to.
M: The period of time when you're not seeing him,you don't know what he's doing
A: That's correct.
M: and this is a period of time that allows you for contemplation or to think, right?
A: Um, if I was in my right mind, yes
M: Well, I'm not asking you if you were in your right mind, was I
A: Um, no
M: I was asking you whether or not you had time to think.
N: Objection, asked and answered
J: Overruled
A: Um, I may have had time, but
M: Well didn't you just tell us just now that you sat, well not sat, that you thought about what you were going to do next ?
A: Yes, I thought of getting away
M: So the answer is yes you did think, right?
A: Yes
M: And, in fact when he was, when you were doing this thinking, he wasn't in the closet, right?
A: Um, no he was opening the door
M: Ma'am, he wasn't in the closet, was he?
A: Um he was opening the door and entering the closet.
M: I'm not asking if he was opening the door. The way he told the story just now, you slammed the door, didn't you just say that?
A: Yes I did
M: And when you slammed the door you didn't get his foot, right? He didn't have his foot in the door?
A: No
M: He didn't have his hand somewhere so the door didn't close, right?
A: That's right
M: The door closed, right?
A: Yes
M: And for whatever period of time, he was outside, right?
A: I guess because it opened pretty much right away.
M: Ma'am at this time you were ahead of him in the closet according to you.
A: That's right
M: You had enough time to grab the door, right?
A: No, I slammed it.
M: You touched the door , right?
A: Yes
M: And you slammed the door, right?
A: Yes
M: It shut, right?
A: Yes
M: at that point he wasn't in the enclosed area with you, correct?
A: In that very second, no, he was not.
M: You could have continued running out this door here, couldn&#8217;t' you?
A: Yes
M: You chose not to because you thought about it, right?
A: Um, I don't remember really thinking, I just remember being scared and trying to put distance.
M: You could have run out and put distance between, to use your term, between you and him by running out this door, right?
A; That's right
M: And if you would have ran out this door you could have then run down the hallway, right, again, right?
A: that's possible
M: Well, it's something you could have done, right?
A: Um, if he hadn't stopped me
M: Well, wait a minute you you were alone in the closet after you slammed the door for a period of time, a brief period of time, whatever it was, right?
A: Um, yes
M: And during this brief period of time when this person who was obviously in shape can not catch you , you could have run around and gone down the hallway, correct?
A: Um, not if I'm trying to keep him away from me
M: Ma'am you could have done that couldn't you? You were alone in the closet, right?
A: Yes I was
M: And so you're alone in the closet nothing was stopping you from heading for this exit door. I know it's a door, let's just call it a door.
A: OK
M: you could have then taken another right, you were familiar with his house
A: Yes
M: You were familiar with the fact you could have gone down the hallway , right?
A: Yes
M: And then you could have taken a quick left and you would have been down the stairs, right?
A: No, I probably would have been dead
M: Ma'am you could have done that couldn't you?
A: Not unless I was suicidal
M: You're saying that all of the sudden between the door to the closet, the one that's in the bedroom and the one that's in the bathroom, he suddenly got a lot faster then he did from this area here going all the way around. Ma'am, you're saying he all of a sudden got a lot faster, right?
N: Objection, argumentative, mischaracterizes her testimony
J: Restate your question
M: Ma'am the distance from here all the way around the door is further than the distance from where you were standing inside of the closet from this door here, isn't it?
A: yes
M: So you could have continued running through here, couldn't you?
A: yes
M: He wasn't in the closet at that time, was he?
A: Um, he was by that point, yes
M: And so he's now in the closet and you're saying he's now in the closet and he allows you, according to you , because now he's in the closet, he allows you to go up and get the gun. That's what you're saying. He's now in the closet, right?
A: He entered the closet at the point that I was jumping on the shelf.
M: So the door is opening then, not when you told us before but when you're going up onto the shelf?
A: yes when I told you before which was almost immediately after.
M: Ma'am my question to you is when you went in you were able to have time to go towards the shelves right?
A: Yes
M: And you just told us now that during that period of time whatever it was he was not in the closet.
A: At that very moment, he had not opened the door.
M: So then you just said you were going to the closet area to get the gun, right?
A: The corner
M: The corner, right And as you are in the corner, he's coming in through the door, right?
A: Yes, as I'm beginning to step up on the shelf.
M: Right, you're stepping up and this person who's coming after you and is angry has now given you more time and you now have more time to get the gun from up in the closet, right?
A: Um, yes that's correct
M: Ma'am, this is a very small closet, isn't yet
A: No, it's bigger than the cell I live in.
M: It's bigger than what
A: It's bigger than the cell that I live in, it's not a small closet
M: Ma'am we don't want to know where you live in.
A: I'm just using it for reference, it's not small.
M: Ma'am, we don't did I ask you where you were living?
A: No
M: We're clear, right, We do not want to know where you're living right now
A: Ok, sorry
M: No need to be. Take that attitude that, is there an issue with you answering the questions as they're posed?
A: Sometimes, but I'm trying to answer them the best I can
M: So is it an attitude issue with you then?
N: Objection, argumentative, move to strike
J: Overruled you may answer
A: I don't think it is.
M: So this closet is a small closet, isn't it?
A: no
N: Objection, asked and answered
J: Overruled
A: Not in my opinion
M: It's actually about 11 ½ feet isn't from the door over there to this door here, isn't it?
A: I don't know but that sounds somewhat accurate, I would have said 12.
M::I couldn't hear you, I can't hear you
A: It sounds somewhat accurate, but I don't know really know as far as distance how long 11 ½ feet is.
M: Well then let's take a look at exhibit #249 See the measurement of the line from here to there, you see what the measurement is? It's 11 feet 4 inches so it's a little bit over 11 ½ feet long, right?
A: Around that, yes
M: So you're in this closet and when you're in this closet you reach up to get this gun right?
A: Yes
M: And on direct examination do you remember looking at this photograph which is exhibit #70?
A: Yes
M: And you indicated that the gun is up in this corner here, right?
A: Yes
M: And that's a pretty high shelf, isn't it ma'am?
A: No
M: How tall are you ma'am?
A: 5 foot 5 ½ last I checked
M: And this shelf, you see that there,
A: Yes
M: it goes almost to the roof, see that?
A: Yes
M: You see that thing to the right, there?
A: Yes
M: It is higher than the door, isn't it?
A: Yes
M: You're saying that standing there in front of that shelf you could, at 5 foot 6 you could reach up and grab that top there?
A: No, that's not what I'm saying?
M: In fact you have to get up on the shelves to do it, don't you?
A: Yes, I just got up on one
M: Yes or no?
A: Yes
M: And when you get up on the shelves, it isn't a situation where you can just get up with one hand, isn't it?
A: I did, I
M: So you were able to somehow put one foot on one of these shelves and without putting any other, which hand did you grab it with?
A: I don't remember
M: Alright with the hand that was free that you didn't not use to grab that you were able to just put one foot up there, grab the gun even though you said it was way in the back?
A: It's just sitting right in the corner, not way in the back, there is no back that's just the wall..
M: Well, here's the back part right here that's the term that you used
A: Yes
M: So you're saying that it's in that corner you can according to you put your foot on one of these shelves without disturbing anything else reach out and grab the gun.
A: That's what I did
M: Without disturbing anything else in that closet, right?
A: No, my foot went right on the edge
M: Pardon?
A: My food went right on the edge
M: And you didn't disturb any of the shoes, right?
A: No
M: you didn't disturb any of the pants there, right?
A: Right
M: You didn't disturb and of the ties that are there? Nothing was disturbed.
A: Um, no, yes that's right nothing was disturbed
M: If we take a look at exhibit number 69 this gives us a further out view, doesn't it?
A: yes
M: And it also includes the bench seat, right?
A: Yes
M: Nothing is disturbed there, right?
A: That's right
M: Yet you're saying that this very angry man it coming through here coming after your, right?
A: Yes
M: And that he's very upset about his camera and you're able to get the gun up here, right?
A: That's right
M: Is this the same gun that you told the detective he didn't own?
A: That's right
M: You can't have it both ways ma'am. Back then on June 10, 2008 you did say he did not own a gun, correct?
A: Yes I did
M: and no one was even consulting you about the investigation, you initiated that contact, right?
A: That's right
M: What you are telling us today is to be more than fair, inconsistent with that statement, right?
A: That's right
M: And this thing or the statement about the gun, this didn't that you said involved the gun didn't come for years after you had been arrested correct?
A: Yes years it took me to admit it
M: So the answer is yes it came years later, right?
A: Yes
M: We've reviewed a lot of text messages we've reviewed a lot or some email correspondence and even your journal. And the text messages there was some exchanges between you and Mr. Alexander could be defined as heated, correct?
A: Yes
M: You guys were fighting at some of these point, right?
A: I would say arguing, yes
M: Alright, arguing and nowhere in those text messages does he ever threaten you physically, does he?
A: Um, no he doesn't
M: He doesn't does he?
A: That's correct
M: And there's no email correspondence into which he's threatening you correct?
A: um, I'm trying to think. We talk about it but there are no threats.
M: There are not threats .And there's no police report, because you never called the police.
A: That's right
M: There are no individuals who have come in to say they saw him mistreat you, correct?
A: Physically, that's right
M: Well, no, you're saying that there are individuals that came in here that said he mistreated you some other way?
N: Objection
J: Overruled
A: Yeah, I do.
M: Okay, Dan Freeman testified, right?
A: Yes
M: He indicated that he treated you appropriately, didn't he say that?
A: He did say that, he also said the opposite.
M: And in fact there was only one fight where he was present, right?
A: Yes
M: This is the trip to Havasupai
A: Yes, I was mortified by it about it
M: Pardon
A: Yes, I remember that.
M: And do you remember that the reason there was a fight was that he was trying to make the trip and enjoyable one , right?
A: I don't remember Dan saying that
M: Remember he said that it needed to be enjoyable and he needed to take out whatever heavy products were in your backpack, do you remember that?
A: I remember that's what started the argument
M: Right, and you got mad at him, right?
A: No, he got mad at me.
M: Oh so Dan Freeman got mad at you?
A: No, I thought you were talking about Travis
M: No, I'm talking about Dan Freeman
A: No, I've never been mad at Dan Freeman
M: I'm not asking if you were mad at Dan Freeman, Dan Freeman did not get mad at you then, did he?
A: No, he didn't
M: And in fact, he indicated he was just trying to make the trip enjoyable because these backpacks can get heavy, right?
A: Yes, something to that effect.
M: And somehow , given what Dan Freeman did, it became a fight between you and Mr. Alexander, right?
A: It sparked a fight, yes
M: And the way you phrased it it was Mr. Alexander's fault, right?
A: That time, yeah it was his fault.
M: Even though you're the person who's upset at having to conform to something that someone else wanted you to do, right?
A: I wasn't that upset
M: Well, you started the fight, not Mr. Alexander like you're saying, correct?
A: no, I took the backpack upstairs and he came in and started screaming at me.
M: So, you didn't your actions in no way, shape, or form ma'am contributed to the problems that happened that morning before you went to Havasupai
A: No, they definitely contributed.
M: They started it didn't they?
A: Um, I didn't think we were arguing so I don't know.
M: Your actions were the ones that started this whole fracas, weren't they?
A: I guess, I
M: No, don't say that you guess ma'am, you were there, right?
A: Yes I was there
M: And you know how the fight started, right?
A: I do
M: And it was because you had an attitude because Daniel Freeman had got into your stuff and removed items, right?
N: Objection
J: Overruled you may answer
A: That's not when I would consider the argument began.
M: Alright, you don't consider that. In fact, though, we look at the text messages and remember talking about whether or not there was any indication that Mr. Alexander ever threatened physical harm and you said no, right?
A: Yes
M: But you did, you threatened physical harm to him, didn't you?
A: As a joke I think I did once
M: No, yes or no. Didn't you threatened him with physical harm, yes or no?
A: Um, I don't remember ever threatening Travis with physical harm ever.
M: Okay let's take a look at one of the exhibits you entered, exhibit 443. Starting at the top. He says to you &#8220;it gets old when you dramatize everything. You stress me out on a regular basis. You have 27 hours and your moaning about making PC. You shouldn't hang up on someone trying to help you. Now you are on your own.&#8221; That's what it says, right?
A: Yes
M: That is not a happy text message is it?
A: No, it isn't
M: That is not a joking text message, is it
A: Yes
M: And then you say nor should you have to
A: No that's nor should you have to, yes.
M: And then you say after that within seconds I wanted to tell u something about today. It's important and time is of the essence, right?
A: Yes
M: That's what you tell him
A: Yes
M: His response to you &#8220;too bad, you shouldn't have hung up on me, right?
A: Yes
M: Still not a joking conversation, right?
A: yes
M: Still a fight or an argument via text message right?
A: Yes
M: and then you say It was for YOUR own benefit&#8212;not mine. I only wanted to tell you because I care about you, right?
A: Yes
M: So now the mood is changing, you only did this because you cared about him, right?
A: Yes
M: And so hanging up on him is cuz you really love him, right?
A: I guess, indirectly it could be.
M: Okay, so you show love by hanging up on him in this circumstance, right?
A: If I didn't love him, the swearing would hurt as bad so I wouldn't hang up on him, so yes.
M: Ma'am you hung up on him, right?
A: Yes I did
M: and you hung up on him because you love him, right? That's what you're saying.
A: I'm saying in and indirect way it could be construed that way.
M: So the answer's yes, correct?
A: that's not the direct reason
M: But, you hung up on him and you're saying you hung up on him because you love him, yes or no?
A: Put plainly like that I would have to say no.
M: And then he says &#8220;whatever Jodi&#8221; doesn't he?
A: Yes
M: He's upset at that point, right?
A: I don't know.
M: You think he's happy there?
N: Objection calls for speculation
J: Overruled, you may answer
A: No, I don't think that
M: Well the first text message was at 16:53 and we understand that's 7 hours ahead. The text message where he says Whatever Jodi is at 16:57, do you see that?
A: Uh, yes
M: And so, roughly about four minutes later, right?
A: Yes
M: And you told us that you guys were fighting in this conversation, right?
A: Um, yes we were arguing
M: Yes, during this 4 minutes that it takes to text back and forth, right? So it's not a joking conversation, right?
A: Um not at this point
M: No, and then you answer almost immediately, &#8220;I'll whatever you in the nose, Travis&#8221;
A: Yes
M: You think that's funny, right, that's a joke
A: Yeah that was his joke that he used to say.
M: what
A: That was his joke that he used to say.
M: And you think that was funny
A: I was hoping he would think it was funny

M: Ma'am I'm asking you if you think that's the joke.
A: The whatever you in the nose?
M: I'll whatever you in the nose, Travis , right
A: Well, that was my goal, so at the time yeah
M: So you thought it was a joke
A: Yeah
M: Even though you were in the middle of a fight
A: I'm trying to diffuse his anger.
M: That's not what it indicates there, Travis I'm trying to diffuse the anger
N: Objection, it's argumentative judge, he's already said
M: I'm going to punch you in the nose
J: Overruled, you may answer
A: Well not if you know Travis
M: Yes or no
A: You're wrong
M: Well, let's look at the next message. It says &#8220;I was just trying to help u out. U've hng up on me sevral times b4 even after I've asked you not 2. It's reasonable that I shdn't tolerate swearing, but again I'm very sorry have a great day. You're still fighting in between there, aren't you?
A: No, I'm trying to ameliorate the situation.
M: The fight isn't over, that's why you're apologizing, right?
A: I guess
M: So it's not a joke, right?
A: No it was a joke

 

[minor4th]

originally posted by ingra1327


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - *graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**

2/28 afternoon cross part 2


(27:58)
M: So you say that you grabbed the gun from this area here, this is exhibit 70, at the top without disturbing anything, right?
A: that's correct
M: So then, what do you do?
A: Right as I'm reaching for it, or getting up on the shelf, he's opening up the door so I run out the other door and he follows me and I turn and point the gun
M: Well, let me stop you there. So what you're saying is you are able to get the gun before he opens the door, right?
A: No, it was contemporaneous
M: So he's opening the door and you're grabbing the gun.
A: Around that time yes, right around the same moment.
M: So if you're down here toward the end here which is near the door you agree with me that the gun was near the door, right?
A: Um, when I grabbed it, yes
M: Pardon
A: When I grabbed it, yes
M: No when it's s kept up here, this is near the door area isn't it?
A: Yes
M: And you're saying that that's the time that he's opening the door to get into the closet, right?
A: As I'm going for it yes
M: So you have at least 11 ½ to 12 foot head start at that point, don't you?
A: Um, yes
M: And with that head start which is the length of the closet, by the time he opened the door you could have been out this door couldn't you?
A: Yes
M: You chose to escalate didn't you even though you had that 12 foot head start didn't you.
A: No, I didn't chose to escalate it I was trying to deescalate it
M: and you chose to deescalate the situation by according to you getting a handgun, correct?
A: Yes
M: Just like this situation here in exhibit 443 you tried to deescalate the fight by telling him I'll whatever you in the nose, Travis , right?
A: Yes, except that was a joke
M: Yes, yes or no
A: Yes
M: So now that you've grabbed the gun take a look at exhibit number 72 you see the closet door there?That's the one you came out of, right?
A: Yes
M: Where do you go?
A: Into the bathroom
M: Pardon?
A: into the bathroom
M: This is the bathroom that we're looking at, right?
A: Yes
M: And so you go in there, where do you stand?
A: In the center
M: So this would be the center right about here, right?
A: I don't know, it's even further than that.
M: So you're even further away than this picture shows to the bathroom, right?
A: Um, I'm right about there
M: And you run in, into the bathroom, don't you?
A: Yes
M: And you're in a hurry, right?
A: yes
M: You want to get away right?
A: I want him to not get near to me.
M: Well, you want to get away, that's what's going on
A: I want him to not get near me, that's what's going on.
M: Right and so you're going quickly aren't you
A: Yes, it was frantic
M: You're not going leisurely, right?
A: Definitely not
M: And so when you get inside here you what run in here? Is that what you do.
A: I took a few steps and turned around
M: Alright. The few steps that you take are they quick running steps or are they just leisurely steps?
A: They are quick steps
M: Like running, right because you want to get away from the circumstance according to you, right?
A: Yes but the floor was wet and it was kind of slippery
M: But you had socks, right?
A: I don't remember

M: Well then let me help you refresh your memory. Take a look at exhibit 162 . See that photograph there?
A: Yes
M: You see that foot there?
A: Yes
M: That is your foot, right?
A: yes
M: There is some footwear on there, correct?
A: Yes
M: There is a sock, right?
A: Yes
M: Or are you saying it's a shoe, which one is it?
A: Its a black sock
M: So you run in here and you say it's wet, right?
A: Yes
M: But if anybody is more wet, it's him, right?
A: Yes
M: Because if you're talking about slipping, he's the one that's more apt to slip because he's the one that's wet, correct?
A: Yes
M: Not you because you are not wet, right?
A: That's right
M: and the socks provide better traction, don't they?
A: Yes
M: And so what you do then, is according to you is you then go in here and then you pivot or turn around?
A: Yes
M: Right?
A: That's correct
M: You run in here, you don't go that way, it's easier to run to the right, than it is to come to the center of the bathroom, isn't it?
A: Um, I don't know, I wasn't thinking of left or right or what just
M: It's closer to go to the right down the hallway than it is to come into this area of the bathroom, isn't it?
A: I would say it's equal distance
M: Alright, it's equal distance in this area that you go to. Then you turn around, right? Which takes some time
A: Um, yeah, half a second
M: It does take some time to pivot doesn't it?
A: nods
M: You have the gun which hand do you have the gun in?
A: both
M: So you have it out like this with both hands outstretched?
A: Yes
M: Correct?
A: Yes
M: He's still not there yet, right? He's still in the closet.
A: He's coming out the door as I turn
M: So he's at the door now, right?
A: nods
M: How far away are you from the door?
A: um, I don't know, I'm somewhere in the middle of the bathroom
M: You're in the middle of the bathroom and he's standing at the door?
A: He's not standing, he's running toward me.
M: So he's running very fast, right?
A: yes
M: Almost without giving you a time to react, right? That's the way you described it, right?
A: I don't know he was just running at me as a turned around
M: Right and he was really close at the time you turned around, right?
A: I don't know he was coming at me.
M: I understand he was coming after, I'm talking about how close he was, he was close, right?
A: He was, um closer than I wanted him to be at that moment but I don't know what you mean by close.
M: Well how close is he being closer than you wanted him to be, how close it that.
A: I don't know, I just didn't want him
M: I understand you didn't want him near you but how close is he to you, is he as close as you and the court reporter?
N: Objection ,argumentative
J: Overruled
A: At one point, yes, but that distance was closed.
M: Okay and that distance was close after, or the distance was close than then you shot him, in other words, he got closer before you shot him, right?
A: Um, I think it was all simultaneous
M: You think what?
A: I think it was simultaneous
M: You don't have any problem remembering this part of it the event, do you?
A: When you break it down that much, yes
M: I'm not, it's something according to you, you said on direct examination, I've never killed anyone before, remember that?
A: Yes, I remember
M: So, it's kinda a highlight in your life, would you agree, or a low-light, however you want to look at it?
A: A defining moment
M: Right, and as a defining moment to use your term is something that will stick with you , won't it?
A: Yes
M: And so I'm asking about a defining moment in your life, how far away this individual was when you had the gun out? The gun that you brought from Yreka, didn't you?
N: Objection, mischaracterizes her testimony, it's a cop out question
J: Restate the question
M: You brought the gun from Yreka, didn't you?
A: No
M: So, how far away was he?
A: He was running toward me so the distance varied.
M: Well he couldn't have been running toward you for very long because if he's here and the breech of the door and you're right here, that's within four feet isn't it?
A: I guess, I don't know how long it was.
M: Well, maybe if we take a look at the measurements here, it will tell us a little bit, okay? You see that the door is 33 inches, right?
A: Yes
M: And that's where he was standing, right?
A: He was never just standing, he was in motion
M: That's where you saw him in the breech way when you saw him coming at you, according to you, correct?
A: That's correct
M: And the distance from here to here, the door, 36 inches, see that?
A: No, where?
M: right here, so that's three feet right?
A: Um yes
M: And if you just take that out and you stand right there, isn't that about where you told me you were?
A: No, I didn't say that I was more in the center of the bathroom
M: What
A: It was more toward the center
M: It was in the center can you see how far this was here? Six and three feet, that's nine feet, right?
A: Yes but that's not accurate
M: So you're saying whoever measured this, didn't measure it accurately?
A: No, not the measurements
N: Objection, &#8230;.correlate to where she was, he's talking apples and oranges
M: Objection to the speaking of ...nature of the objection
J: I'm going to overrule you're objection. Restate your question
J:
M: The distance from here to here you told us is three feet, right?
A: Yes
M: The distance from here to here is about 9 feet, right?
A: Um
N: Objection foundation, she didn't do these measurements
J: Sustained
M: This says three feet, right?
A: Yes
M: This says 36 inches, right?
A: Yes
M: So that's nine feet total, right?
A: Yes
M: And you were standing you said about the middle of this room, right about here
A: Right around there somewhere
M: Right about the middle, right?
A: Yes
M: And if you take it across that says 6 here, right?
A: That looks about to scale
M: Pardon
A: That looks about to scale
N: Objection the measurement is not where he's asking her, the measurement is where she's standing.

(41:22)
M: So you said you were right here, correct?
A: Right about there
M: And he's coming through the door right?
A: Yes
M: And you have your hands outstretched with the gun, right?
A: yes
M: So then in determining how close he is that brings you about the length of your arms, that brings him that much closer to the muzzle of the weapon, doesn't it?
A: Yes
M: And he's moving fast isn't he?
A: Yeah, he's moving very fast
M: You said it happened very very quickly, right?
A: Yes,
M: He's not wearing any clothing, correct?
A: Yes
M: According to you, he is on you when you shot him, right?
A: Not quite on me, the gun went off and then he impacted me shortly after that.
M: What I'm asking ma'am is you have your hands outstretched, right?
A: Yes
M: And he's coming toward you, because you've already told us you're here, correct?
A: Right about there.
M: And he is coming to the door, right?
A: Yes
M: And you have your hands outstretched facing him didn't you?
A: yes
M: And he keeps coming toward you and he's not stopping, correct?
A: Yes
M: And according to your testimony on direct, he falls on top of you , right?
A: he lunges at me like a linebacker
M: He lunges at you and that's when the gun goes off, right?
A: It went off prior to him
M: Prior to him lunging at you?
A: No, prior to him impacting me
M: so in other words, he's lunging out you and is almost on you when according to you, the weapon goes off, right?
A: Um, something like that. He went to lunge as the gun was going off and the impact
M: So he's already moving in the air towards you when the gun goes off? Is that what you're saying?
A: Yes he was moving for my waist
M: And he comes towards you, right?
A: yes
M: And you keep saying like a linebacker, what does that mean?
A: Cuz linebackers kind of get down low and crouch and then they attack, or whatever they do and that's kind of what it reminded me of. He didn't get down with his hand on the ground but he got down low and he impacted my torso like
M: No no I'm not asking where he impacted your torso. I want to know how he was standing so that it reminds you of a linebacker stance.
A: because it reminded me of a linebacker the way he
M: I understand it reminded you of a linebacker,
N: Can she finish answering the question?
J: Yes finish your
A: When he lunged at me he crouched down like a linebacker kind of. That's why I say that because that's what it reminded me of.
M: I understand that's what it reminded you of, how does a linebacker crouch ma'am, explain that to me. You just keep defining a linebacker crouching by saying he crouches like a linebacker. How?
A: He got down kind of low
M: Okay does that mean he was all the way down on the ground, is that what you're saying?
A: It's almost like he dove, kind of like that.
M: So, he dove at you and got very close, correct?
A: Um, yeah, he was pretty close, to close for my comfort
M: and as he's diving towards you, that's when the gun goes off, right?
A: I think so, yes
M: Well no,
A: It was contemporaneous, it all happened so fast
M: And you do have your hands outstretched, right?
A: yes
M: And from then on you say you don't remember anything ,right?
A: No, I remember a little bit after that.
M: Okay what happened to the gun?
A: It got knocked out of my hand
M: How did it get knocked out of your hand, ma'am?
A: The impact
M: The impact from what
A: From Travis hitting me
M: So he actually fell on top of you, he was that close but he fell on top of you, right?
A: Um we both fell together, I was trying to keep him from getting on top of me,he lunged at me and he hit me and knocked the gun out of my hand and we both fell backward toward the trash can.
M: I don't understand. You said you said that you're out here with the gun outstretched and he's lunging toward you, right?
A: that's correct.
M: And he's looking toward you when he's lunging
A: Um, I don't know where he's looking
N: objection
J: Overruled
A: I don't know where he's looking
M: You could see his face, right?
A: I don't recall looking in his eyes,
M: I'm not asking you if you could see his eyes, I'm asking if you could see his face
A: Um, not really, like he was kind of bent down
M: So what you're saying is that he is more like a bull rather than a linebacker, because he's charging like a bull with his head down, that's what you're saying ,right?
A: Not quite down like that ,maybe in between that would be accurate
M: Okay so maybe in between here. If he's got his head down as you tell us that he does and you say you can't see his face, though, that's what you say, right?
A: No, I just don't remember whether I noticed his face or not, he was just a ball of fury coming at me and that's what I remember
M: But you said you could see his eyes, is that what you remember?
A: I don't remember seeing his eyes
M: That means you didn't see his eyes, right?
A: I don't remember looking into his eyes
M: So if he's down in this position like you're talking about with his head down like that, how could he possibly know to come after you if he's looking down? What's he going to do feel his way around?
N: Objection speculation
J: Sustained
M: He had his head down, that's what you said, right?
A: He was like a linebacker, I can just describe it like a linebacker which unless I get up and act it out which I'd like to not do if possible
J: Then do it, show us how he was sitting or crouching
A: He
M: no, no go ahead and do it, just stand
N: Your honor, may we approach
J: You may

 

[minor4th]

Originally posted by ingra1327


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - *graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**


2/28 afternoon cross part 3


Sidebar Camera's stop recording until 51:32
M: Now stand up and go to left. Show me the posture of Mr. Alexander immediately before he rushed you according to you.
A: I was
M: No, no, just show me, that's what I'm asking you to do, not talk, show me, c'mon, show me the linebacker pose
A: He got down and
M: Well show me the linebacker pose that what I'm asking for you to do.
A: He went like that and he turned his head and he grabbed my waist.
M: Just like that, correct?
A: pretty much
M: And he grabbed your waist, right?
A: I can't say it's just like that but it's how I remember it.
M: Well no, I want it without talking ,just show me the pose
A: He got down like that
M: Alright, go ahead and have a seat ma&#8217;am. And now you said that this happened right about here correct?
A: I don't know, it was somewhere in the center of the bathroom.
M: Right so how is it ma'am that if you are shooting him and that's the first thing that happened, then how is it that the shell-casing, exhibit 111 then landed in blood?
N: Objection, calls for speculation
J: Overruled
A: It didn't land in blood
M: You see exhibit 111, right?
A: Yes
M: That's the casing that was involved in this case isn't it?
A: Yes
M: There was a casing that was ejected, wasn't it?
A: Yes
M: And when you say this happened there wasn't any blood on the floor, correct?
A: Yes
M: This was the first, if you will, blow, correct?
A: Yes
M: And this is how the casing land it, do you see it?
A: That's not how it landed from the blow
M: Ma'am, you do see the casing there, don't you
A: Yes
M: After he came at you ma'am and that happened, did you go down?
A: We both went down
M: You went down on your back, right?
A: Yes, I went on my back
M: Did you strike your head?
A: Um, I don't recall striking my head that time.
M: So the answer is no, you don't remember striking your head.
N: Objection, asked and answered.
J: Overruled
A: No, I don't think I did, but I don't know.
M: And was he one top of you? How was it?
A: He landed to the side of me and was grabbing at my clothes
M: okay so he landed to which side of you, the right or the left?
A: The right
M: Okay he landed to the right and now he's got this gunshot where?
A: I didn't know he had a gunshot
M: I'm not asking you if you knew he had a gunshot, we know he did. I'm asking you after he has this gunshot, what is he doing?
A: He's very pissed off and he's trying to grab me
M: And he's speaking to you, right?
A: He's screaming obscenities at me
M: What's he saying? What's he saying to you after he was shot, tell me what he's saying?
A: I don't remember the words
M: You can't remember a single word that he's screaming at you afterward?
A: No, I don't
M: And he's screaming this loudly, screaming but he's doing it loudly correct?
A: Yes
M: And he is to your left or to your right?
A: my right
M: So he's toward the tub, correct
A: He would be on that side but not near the tub
M: But it would be on that side, correct?
A: Yes that's correct
M: And you're saying he wasn't bleeding at that time.
A: I'm not saying that, I don't think you've asked me anything about that.
M: I'm asking you right now, are you saying he was bleeding?
A: No, I&#8221;m not saying that
M: so he was bleeding at the time, correct?
A: I don't remember seeing any blood at that moment
M: When he's down there, you don't see any blood, right?
A: No
M: So at that point there can be no blood in the bathroom, we can agree on that, right?
A: No, I don't agree with that
M: There was blood somewhere in the bathroom, immediately after you shot him, other than around him?
A: I don't know
M: Well you were there, right?
A: Yes
M: You said that you ran in this direction when he was chasing you did you happen to see the blood over on the left side when you were running in that direction?
A: There was no blood there when I was running in that direction?
M: And was there any blood down here when you ran down the first time?
A: No
M: How about any blood where it says number 5, it's right here.
A: no
M: So there was no blood when you shot him then, right?
A: Um, not at the moment the gun went off.
M: How about immediately after he was struck was there any blood?
A: I don't remember
M: Weren't you looking at him or anything?
A: Um, I wasn't examining him or anything
M: Weren't you looking at him right after the gun went off?
A: I think I closed my eyes really tight. I've never seen him. I just remember getting hit really hard and we fell
M: So you remember going down but you don't remember looking at his face or anything like that.
A: not at that point
M: well according to you you don't know if he's been shot, isn't he still a threat?
A: Definitely
M: right and you're not trying to get away at that point, right?
A: I was
M: Well, no, you said your eyes were closed and you were just laying there, didn't you just say that?
A: No, I closed my eyes I think as the gun began to go off.
M: You opened them up at some point, right?
A: yes
M: did you open them up when he was lying right next to you on your right hand side?
A: I believe I did
M: and so then you see him bleeding, right?
A: I never looked at him.
M: So you never looked at him but he's cursing at you, though, right?
A: Yes
M: He's cursing at you like before, right?
A: Maybe not the same words but he was cursing at me.
M: He was cursing at you which you say precipitated this killing, right?
A: um, yeah
M: and so then you say that you're down on the ground and he's still cursing, whatever the words may be, right?
A: Yes
M: And you're not looking at him now, right?
A: no
M: You're not rolling away from him at this point, right?
A: I'm attempting to get away from him
M: With your eyes closed right?
A: No
M: your eyes are open now, right?
A: I believe they are open, yea.
M: And you aren't looking at the source of the danger, right?
A: no
M: You're not
A: No
M: why not? If you were looking at him before and this person was threatening you, why aren't you looking at what the source is? So that you can try to get away again.
A: I don't need to because I already knew what he was doing at that point,
M: What
A: I didn't need to because I already knew what he was doing at that point.
M: you already knew what he was doing at that point.
A: Yes
M: You knew he was cursing, right?
A: Yes
M: you knew he was right next to you, right?
A: Yes
M: You knew he was grabbing at you, right?
A: yes
M: And so you just kept your eyes closed and you don't even know where you&#8217;re going to go?
A: I believe I said my eyes weren't closed at this point
M: Okay so you're eyes are closed for how long?
A: I don't know I just blinked hard.
M: So then you do open your eyes, right?
A: Yes
M: Then do you see blood
A: Id don&#8217;t remember seeing blood
M: so you don't see blood at that point, right?
A: no
M: and he's still not dead, right?
A: definitely not dead and he's very angry
M: He's very angry and this is seconds afterward, right?
A: yes
M: Is he on all fours now?
A: Um, he's on the side of my grabbing at my clothes and grabbing me.
M: So he's at your right side grabbing at you, right?
A: Yes
M: Is he punching you?
A: no
M: Is he hitting you?
A: no
M: is he doing anything else?
A: He's just, it seemed like he was trying to get control of me and I was pushing him away.
M: throughout this whole thing where you are having this confrontation with him do you ever tell him to stop, or tell him to do anything?
A: I think I screamed stop when I pointed the gun at him
M: and when he's next to you on the right hand side did you say anything to him?
A: I don't remember
M: are you saying that you're having a hard time remembering things that are happening now that you've shot him?
A: yes
M: so it appears then that your memory gets faulty immediately upon shooting him.
A: yeah, things get very foggy from there.
M: That's immediately, the shot takes him down and then creates a fog for you, is that what you're saying?
A: It begins creating a fog.
M: But you weren't struck by the shot, were you?
A: no
M: In fact, you don't have really injuries as a result of killing him do you, other than the one to your left ring finger, do you?
A: That's the only visible injury
M: Pardon
A: That's the only visible injury
M: I'm talking about visible injuries, right that's the only visible injury you have to your left ring finger, even though according to you he slammed you down, right when he got out of the shower and then he slammed you down again when he was coming at you and you had to pull the gun, according to you, right?
A: yes
M: And he's also grabbing at you while you're on the ground and he's not being gentle about it right?
A: That's correct
M: no bruising no anything, other than just the thing the injury to the left ring-finger, right?
A: I don't know if my skull was bruised
M: Pardon
A: I don't know if my skull was bruised
M: Aside from that , but uh, did you get medical care for that?
A: no
M: Did you seek medical care for your finger?
A: No I did not,not professional
M: well you do have an injury to that left ring-finger don't you?
A: yes
M: And so when you arrive out in West Jordan Utah and you see Mr. Burns, you do have an injury to your left finger, correct?
A: We're talking about two different injuries. No
M: Well ma'am you just told me when we were talking about this killing that you injured your left ring-finger, do you remember just telling me now, just no, no more than two minutes ago.
A: Yes I was referring to this injury (holds up left hand)
M: Ma'am were we really talking about this particular injury at that time?
A: I didn't know
M: Oh , you don't know we were talking about the killing at that time?
A: you talked about injury to my left finger.
M: Ma'am what have we been talking about this whole afternoon?
N: Objection, argumentative
J: Overruled
A: June 4th
M: Pardon
A: June 4th
M: Right, we haven't mentioned any other day , right?
A: Not to my recollection.
M: You've been here throughout these proceedings and you've been asking, or you've been answering questions, right?
A: Yes
M: And as we were talking about it just now, I asked you isn't it true that the only injury as a result of this incident was this injury to the left ring-finger and you said yes, do you remember saying that?
A: I might have, but that's not what I meant
M: well ma'am you did say it didn't you
A: I don't know
M: And in fact, I followed it up by saying and you didn't seek medical care, do you remember me asking that?
A: I thought you meant about my skull
M: No, do you remember me asking you that
A: Yes
M: And do you remember you said well, not professional medical care, do you remember that?
A: I'm referring to the splint Travis made for me.
M: I know that that's what you're telling me now, but the line of questioning before involved the shooting, that's what we were talking about, right?
A: Yes, but then you went to my left finger
M: Mr. Alexander was dead after that, wasn't he?
A: Not immediately after that,
M: No, he grabbed the knife that you stabbed him with, didn't he, so he wasn't dead immediately after that, right?
N: Objection, calls for speculation she said she doesn't remember
J: Restate the question
M: And we're talking about Mr. Alexander an individual you just shot, right? So it's not like we're talking about him providing any medical care for you, are we?
A: that's right
M: You're the person that's come in here at least we know that you've indicated that you did kill Mr. Alexander , correct?
A: Yes
M: the only incident where this could have happened was on June 4th, 2008, right?
A: Yes
M: So this issue of him providing a splint or splinting your finger really doesn't have anything to do with June 4th of 2008, does it?
A: No
M: And you did say that the only injury you received was to your left ring-finger on June 4, 2008, remember that?
A: I didn't say that
M: well, yes you did and in fact you used the word physical injuries do you remember that/
N: Objection, argumentative, she said she didn't say that
J: Sustained
M: And you also indicated well I may have had some injuries to my head, do you remember that?
A: yes
M: Those were the only injuries that you sustained on June 4, 2008, remember I asked you about that and you said yes
A: that's not how I understood your question
M: so then he's down ma'am and he's to your right What happens now?
A: I break away from him and he screams out &#8220;****ing kill you *****&#8221;
M: So then even though you've already shot him, he's been grabbing at you, he does say I'll ****ing kill you, *****, right?
A: I don't think he said I'll, those words are in my head. He may have said that maybe not , I just heard ****ing kill you *****.
M: Okay what are the words let's hear the words one more time so we can get them right?
A: I heard him say ****ing kill you *****
M: Aren't these the same words that you indicated that you heard when he was doing his pirouette outside the shower, ****ing kill you *****, aren't they the same words?
A: I don't think they were the same, he was still screaming at me coming after me.
M: Just so we're clear, what did he say as he's getting out of the shower?
A: As he was getting out of the shower he called me a ****ing idiot and said a ****ing 5 year old could hold the camera better than you
M: and then when he's down after being shot he says ****ing kill you, right?
A: After I broke away from him, right after, he screamed out when he couldn't grab me any more.
M: He's trying to grab you and he's still on the floor but you're able to get away, right?
A: Yes
M: I thought you said that he was this really, remember when you had the conversation with Det. Flores and you told him he was a really strong guy, a wrestler in high school, do you remember saying that?
A: Yes
M: You're saying you're able to get away from this man who was a wrestler in high school who's very strong, that's what you're saying, right?
A: Yes
M: And then what did you do?
A: I don't remember, I don't remember anything at that point so I would be speculating
M: so you don't remember a single, solitary thing after that, right?
A: there are a few little pieces that have come back sense but not immediately after, I don't remember.
M: Okay, well what are the pieces that have come back. Tell me about what you remember about this. Whatever pieces you remember.
A: um, at one point I remember dropping the knife and screaming
M: But that's something that's come to you since, right
A: Since, yes
M: You don't remember.. alright what else?
A: um, the others are more vague so I'm not sure
M: If they're vague, we don't want to hear them. Where were you standing when you had this recollection about dropping the knife and screaming
A: I don't remember the exact position but I was in the bathroom because it hit the tile.
M: Ma'am that's all that you remember with regard to this particular event, correct?
A: from that point to that point yes
Sidebar, afternoon recessSidebar Camera's stop recording until 51:32
M: Now stand up and go to left. Show me the posture of Mr. Alexander immediately before he rushed you according to you.
A: I was
M: No, no, just show me, that's what I'm asking you to do, not talk, show me, c'mon, show me the linebacker pose
A: He got down and
M: Well show me the linebacker pose that what I'm asking for you to do.
A: He went like that and he turned his head and he grabbed my waist.
M: Just like that, correct?
A: pretty much
M: And he grabbed your waist, right?
A: I can't say it's just like that but it's how I remember it.
M: Well no, I want it without talking ,just show me the pose
A: He got down like that
M: Alright, go ahead and have a seat ma&#8217;am. And now you said that this happened right about here correct?
A: I don't know, it was somewhere in the center of the bathroom.
M: Right so how is it ma'am that if you are shooting him and that's the first thing that happened, then how is it that the shell-casing, exhibit 111 then landed in blood?
N: Objection, calls for speculation
J: Overruled
A: It didn't land in blood
M: You see exhibit 111, right?
A: Yes
M: That's the casing that was involved in this case isn't it?
A: Yes
M: There was a casing that was ejected, wasn't it?
A: Yes
M: And when you say this happened there wasn't any blood on the floor, correct?
A: Yes
M: This was the first, if you will, blow, correct?
A: Yes
M: And this is how the casing land it, do you see it?
A: That's not how it landed from the blow
M: Ma'am, you do see the casing there, don't you
A: Yes
M: After he came at you ma'am and that happened, did you go down?
A: We both went down
M: You went down on your back, right?
A: Yes, I went on my back
M: Did you strike your head?
A: Um, I don't recall striking my head that time.
M: So the answer is no, you don't remember striking your head.
N: Objection, asked and answered.
J: Overruled
A: No, I don't think I did, but I don't know.
M: And was he one top of you? How was it?
A: He landed to the side of me and was grabbing at my clothes
M: okay so he landed to which side of you, the right or the left?
A: The right
M: Okay he landed to the right and now he's got this gunshot where?
A: I didn't know he had a gunshot
M: I'm not asking you if you knew he had a gunshot, we know he did. I'm asking you after he has this gunshot, what is he doing?
A: He's very pissed off and he's trying to grab me
M: And he's speaking to you, right?
A: He's screaming obscenities at me
M: What's he saying? What's he saying to you after he was shot, tell me what he's saying?
A: I don't remember the words
M: You can't remember a single word that he's screaming at you afterward?
A: No, I don't
M: And he's screaming this loudly, screaming but he's doing it loudly correct?
A: Yes
M: And he is to your left or to your right?
A: my right
M: So he's toward the tub, correct
A: He would be on that side but not near the tub
M: But it would be on that side, correct?
A: Yes that's correct
M: And you're saying he wasn't bleeding at that time.
A: I'm not saying that, I don't think you've asked me anything about that.
M: I'm asking you right now, are you saying he was bleeding?
A: No, I&#8221;m not saying that
M: so he was bleeding at the time, correct?
A: I don't remember seeing any blood at that moment
M: When he's down there, you don't see any blood, right?
A: No
M: So at that point there can be no blood in the bathroom, we can agree on that, right?
A: No, I don't agree with that
M: There was blood somewhere in the bathroom, immediately after you shot him, other than around him?
A: I don't know
M: Well you were there, right?
A: Yes
M: You said that you ran in this direction when he was chasing you did you happen to see the blood over on the left side when you were running in that direction?
A: There was no blood there when I was running in that direction?
M: And was there any blood down here when you ran down the first time?
A: No
M: How about any blood where it says number 5, it's right here.
A: no
M: So there was no blood when you shot him then, right?
A: Um, not at the moment the gun went off.
M: How about immediately after he was struck was there any blood?
A: I don't remember
M: Weren't you looking at him or anything?
A: Um, I wasn't examining him or anything
M: Weren't you looking at him right after the gun went off?
A: I think I closed my eyes really tight. I've never seen him. I just remember getting hit really hard and we fell
M: So you remember going down but you don't remember looking at his face or anything like that.
A: not at that point
M: well according to you you don't know if he's been shot, isn't he still a threat?
A: Definitely
M: right and you're not trying to get away at that point, right?
A: I was
M: Well, no, you said your eyes were closed and you were just laying there, didn't you just say that?
A: No, I closed my eyes I think as the gun began to go off.
M: You opened them up at some point, right?
A: yes
M: did you open them up when he was lying right next to you on your right hand side?
A: I believe I did
M: and so then you see him bleeding, right?
A: I never looked at him.
M: So you never looked at him but he's cursing at you, though, right?
A: Yes
M: He's cursing at you like before, right?
A: Maybe not the same words but he was cursing at me.
M: He was cursing at you which you say precipitated this killing, right?
A: um, yeah
M: and so then you say that you're down on the ground and he's still cursing, whatever the words may be, right?
A: Yes
M: And you're not looking at him now, right?
A: no
M: You're not rolling away from him at this point, right?
A: I'm attempting to get away from him
M: With your eyes closed right?
A: No
M: your eyes are open now, right?
A: I believe they are open, yea.
M: And you aren't looking at the source of the danger, right?
A: no
M: You're not
A: No
M: why not? If you were looking at him before and this person was threatening you, why aren't you looking at what the source is? So that you can try to get away again.
A: I don't need to because I already knew what he was doing at that point,
M: What
A: I didn't need to because I already knew what he was doing at that point.
M: you already knew what he was doing at that point.
A: Yes
M: You knew he was cursing, right?
A: Yes
M: you knew he was right next to you, right?
A: Yes
M: You knew he was grabbing at you, right?
A: yes
M: And so you just kept your eyes closed and you don't even know where you&#8217;re going to go?
A: I believe I said my eyes weren't closed at this point
M: Okay so you're eyes are closed for how long?
A: I don't know I just blinked hard.
M: So then you do open your eyes, right?
A: Yes
M: Then do you see blood
A: Id don&#8217;t remember seeing blood
M: so you don't see blood at that point, right?
A: no
M: and he's still not dead, right?
A: definitely not dead and he's very angry
M: He's very angry and this is seconds afterward, right?
A: yes
M: Is he on all fours now?
A: Um, he's on the side of my grabbing at my clothes and grabbing me.
M: So he's at your right side grabbing at you, right?
A: Yes
M: Is he punching you?
A: no
M: Is he hitting you?
A: no
M: is he doing anything else?
A: He's just, it seemed like he was trying to get control of me and I was pushing him away.
M: throughout this whole thing where you are having this confrontation with him do you ever tell him to stop, or tell him to do anything?
A: I think I screamed stop when I pointed the gun at him
M: and when he's next to you on the right hand side did you say anything to him?
A: I don't remember
M: are you saying that you're having a hard time remembering things that are happening now that you've shot him?
A: yes
M: so it appears then that your memory gets faulty immediately upon shooting him.
A: yeah, things get very foggy from there.
M: That's immediately, the shot takes him down and then creates a fog for you, is that what you're saying?
A: It begins creating a fog.
M: But you weren't struck by the shot, were you?
A: no
M: In fact, you don't have really injuries as a result of killing him do you, other than the one to your left ring finger, do you?
A: That's the only visible injury
M: Pardon
A: That's the only visible injury
M: I'm talking about visible injuries, right that's the only visible injury you have to your left ring finger, even though according to you he slammed you down, right when he got out of the shower and then he slammed you down again when he was coming at you and you had to pull the gun, according to you, right?
A: yes
M: And he's also grabbing at you while you're on the ground and he's not being gentle about it right?
A: That's correct
M: no bruising no anything, other than just the thing the injury to the left ring-finger, right?
A: I don't know if my skull was bruised
M: Pardon
A: I don't know if my skull was bruised
M: Aside from that , but uh, did you get medical care for that?
A: no
M: Did you seek medical care for your finger?
A: No I did not,not professional
M: well you do have an injury to that left ring-finger don't you?
A: yes
M: And so when you arrive out in West Jordan Utah and you see Mr. Burns, you do have an injury to your left finger, correct?
A: We're talking about two different injuries. No
M: Well ma'am you just told me when we were talking about this killing that you injured your left ring-finger, do you remember just telling me now, just no, no more than two minutes ago.
A: Yes I was referring to this injury (holds up left hand)
M: Ma'am were we really talking about this particular injury at that time?
A: I didn't know
M: Oh , you don't know we were talking about the killing at that time?
A: you talked about injury to my left finger.
M: Ma'am what have we been talking about this whole afternoon?
N: Objection, argumentative
J: Overruled
A: June 4th
M: Pardon
A: June 4th
M: Right, we haven't mentioned any other day , right?
A: Not to my recollection.
M: You've been here throughout these proceedings and you've been asking, or you've been answering questions, right?
A: Yes
M: And as we were talking about it just now, I asked you isn't it true that the only injury as a result of this incident was this injury to the left ring-finger and you said yes, do you remember saying that?
A: I might have, but that's not what I meant
M: well ma'am you did say it didn't you
A: I don't know
M: And in fact, I followed it up by saying and you didn't seek medical care, do you remember me asking that?
A: I thought you meant about my skull
M: No, do you remember me asking you that
A: Yes
M: And do you remember you said well, not professional medical care, do you remember that?
A: I'm referring to the splint Travis made for me.
M: I know that that's what you're telling me now, but the line of questioning before involved the shooting, that's what we were talking about, right?
A: Yes, but then you went to my left finger
M: Mr. Alexander was dead after that, wasn't he?
A: Not immediately after that,
M: No, he grabbed the knife that you stabbed him with, didn't he, so he wasn't dead immediately after that, right?
N: Objection, calls for speculation she said she doesn't remember
J: Restate the question
M: And we're talking about Mr. Alexander an individual you just shot, right? So it's not like we're talking about him providing any medical care for you, are we?
A: that's right
M: You're the person that's come in here at least we know that you've indicated that you did kill Mr. Alexander , correct?
A: Yes
M: the only incident where this could have happened was on June 4th, 2008, right?
A: Yes
M: So this issue of him providing a splint or splinting your finger really doesn't have anything to do with June 4th of 2008, does it?
A: No
M: And you did say that the only injury you received was to your left ring-finger on June 4, 2008, remember that?
A: I didn't say that
M: well, yes you did and in fact you used the word physical injuries do you remember that/
N: Objection, argumentative, she said she didn't say that
J: Sustained
M: And you also indicated well I may have had some injuries to my head, do you remember that?
A: yes
M: Those were the only injuries that you sustained on June 4, 2008, remember I asked you about that and you said yes
A: that's not how I understood your question
M: so then he's down ma'am and he's to your right What happens now?
A: I break away from him and he screams out &#8220;****ing kill you *****&#8221;
M: So then even though you've already shot him, he's been grabbing at you, he does say I'll ****ing kill you, *****, right?
A: I don't think he said I'll, those words are in my head. He may have said that maybe not , I just heard ****ing kill you *****.
M: Okay what are the words let's hear the words one more time so we can get them right?
A: I heard him say ****ing kill you *****
M: Aren't these the same words that you indicated that you heard when he was doing his pirouette outside the shower, ****ing kill you *****, aren't they the same words?
A: I don't think they were the same, he was still screaming at me coming after me.
M: Just so we're clear, what did he say as he's getting out of the shower?
A: As he was getting out of the shower he called me a ****ing idiot and said a ****ing 5 year old could hold the camera better than you
M: and then when he's down after being shot he says ****ing kill you, right?
A: After I broke away from him, right after, he screamed out when he couldn't grab me any more.
M: He's trying to grab you and he's still on the floor but you're able to get away, right?
A: Yes
M: I thought you said that he was this really, remember when you had the conversation with Det. Flores and you told him he was a really strong guy, a wrestler in high school, do you remember saying that?
A: Yes
M: You're saying you're able to get away from this man who was a wrestler in high school who's very strong, that's what you're saying, right?
A: Yes
M: And then what did you do?
A: I don't remember, I don't remember anything at that point so I would be speculating
M: so you don't remember a single, solitary thing after that, right?
A: there are a few little pieces that have come back sense but not immediately after, I don't remember.
M: Okay, well what are the pieces that have come back. Tell me about what you remember about this. Whatever pieces you remember.
A: um, at one point I remember dropping the knife and screaming
M: But that's something that's come to you since, right
A: Since, yes
M: You don't remember.. alright what else?
A: um, the others are more vague so I'm not sure
M: If they're vague, we don't want to hear them. Where were you standing when you had this recollection about dropping the knife and screaming
A: I don't remember the exact position but I was in the bathroom because it hit the tile.
M: Ma'am that's all that you remember with regard to this particular event, correct?
A: from that point to that point yes
Sidebar, afternoon recess

 

[minor4th]

Originally posted by ingra1327

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - *graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**

Last hour of cross part 1

That's the last place I don't know if it got kicked around, I don't know
fingerprint evidence, you were there, right?
A:
M: same thing with the DNA Evidence, you were there, right?
A: Yes
Ma'am after this shot rang, you said you went into a fog, right?
A: Yes, things went foggy after that point
M: So with regard to the camera, can you tell us what happened to the camera?
A: I don't remember what I did with the camera
M: You acknowledge that immediately prior to the killing, the camera was here right next to the tub, correct?
A: um that's the last place I saw it rolling, I don't know if it got kicked around or what
M: But you acknowledge though that, I'm looking at exhibit 162. First let's look at the date and time. You acknowledge that this says or was taken on June 4, 2008 at 5:32:16, correct?
A: Yes
M: What time was your understanding that the roommates got home?
A: I didn't know
M: so, did you even know if they were there?
A: Um, I don't remember if they were there or not at that time.
M: Well do you remember one of the things you told us on direct examination was that when there were roommates the two of you had to be careful in your sexual trysts so that as not to , not awaken, but let the others know what was going on.
A: that's correct
M: So if this was going on on that day it would be fair to say that you believe that they were not home, right?
A: This part of the day
M: This part of the day
A: No, I don't think that would have made a difference
M: What I'm saying is when this happened, you believed their were no roommates there, correct?
A: I don't know what time they got home, I don't know
M: And you are wearing socks, right?
A: Yes
M: And there is, appears to be, a zipper on that foot, correct?
A: Yes
M: If we look at this further to orient ourselves, this is Mr. Alexander's head, correct?
A: Yes
M: Blood right there, right?
A: Yes
M: And that's his foot, right?
A: Yes
M: And given the way that the lights are, in this particular photograph, the bathroom is in this direction, correct?
A: Yes
M: And you would agree with me that if the camera, exhibit 249 was last seen here, you see that,
A: Yes
M: And things happened the way you say they happened. We now have this photograph that you were the one that moved that camera, right?
A: It could have been us both, I don't remember moving it.
M: Well, based on what you tell us there is this gunshot that rings out, right?
A: Yes
M: And then you don't remember anything right?
A: I didn't say that, I said it got foggy after that point. The point where I can't remember anything is after he said, well after he threatened my life
M: What's that
A: After he threatened my life
M: What was it that he said?
A: f*cking kill you b*tch.
M: So after that, after f*cking kill you b*tch, you don't remember anything else, right?
A: No, except the one thing that I described
M: Right, but you do remember that as you ran down this hallway, you were not carrying the camera with you, right?
A: Um, no not the first time I ran down the hallway
M: Of course not, you were concerned for your life you told us, right?
A: Yes
M: And you told us that the camera landed next to the tub, right?
A: yes
M: And so if this photograph was snapped at the time that we agreed that it's snapped, and the camera, the last time you see it is next to the tub and then you describe what happens, that Mr. Alexander is down, next to the tub, then it was you that moved that camera, right?
N: Objection calls for speculation, she says she doesn't remember
J: Sustained
M: With regard to Mr. Alexander, ma'am, the last memory that you have of him is that he was down on the ground, correct?
A: Um, yes
M: And the last memory that you have of him is after you shot him, right?
A: Yes
M: You never saw him walking around, did you?
A: No, I didn't
M: And so if he didn&#8217;t, assuming that he didn't get up and walk around, and assuming you did shoot him, and assuming the camera is where you told us it was, then this camera, to take this photograph would have to be moved, right?
A: Yeah, it had to be moved.
M: And you would acknowledge that you did the moving, right?
N: Objection, calls for speculation, she's said over and over again that she doesn't remember
J: Overruled, you may answer
A: Under that theory that would be right
M: Well, you see him right there, ma'am, Mr. Alexander
A: Yes
M: No, take a look at it
A: I've already seen it
M: Alright, are you saying that in the condition that Mr. Alexander is in exhibit number 162, you were there, it's your opinion that he, in that condition could move the camera?
A: I'm not saying that
M: So you did move the camera, right?
N: Again, objection, argumentative, she's already said she doesn't know what happened after wards.
J: Overruled
A: I don't know
M: And that camera as we know ended up in a washing machine, you know that, right?
A: Yes
M: you have this horrible incident that happens upstairs and the camera's being used for, to photograph Mr. Alexander, right?
A: In the shower, yes
M: And then the camera's dropped, and then we see the photographs here. You would acknowledge ma'am, that under those set of facts it was you who put that camera in the washing machine.
A: Yes, I don't remember but that would be logical
M: Because, sure because Mr. Alexander never left the upstairs bathroom, right?
A: I think that's right.
M: And you would acknowledge, ma'am, that if you did that, it would be an indication from you, you say you're in a fog and you don't remember but it would be certainly an indication of your mental state back then, that you picked up that camera and put it in the washing machine, wouldn't it?
A: Yes
M: And that would be an indication, ma'am, that you knew what happened?
A: um, yes, I guess, I don't know why it went in the washing machine
M : And ma'am, we know that these were, this photograph, was deleted from his camera, correct?
A: Correct
M: We know that he's dead after this, right?
A: Um after this yes
M: And we know as you've just told us there was nobody else there, no roommates, right?
A: yes
M: So, if he's dead, no roommates are there, this photograph is snapped and it's deleted, you're the one who deleted it, aren't you?
A: That would make sense , I don't remember deleting it
M: I'm not asking if you remember now, I'm not asking that at all. I'm asking you, given the circumstances that we have here, your the one that deleted it, right?
A: I would have to say yes
M: And in fact, deleting something is not a once, given your expertise in cameras and photography, deleting something is not a one step process, right?
A: that's correct
M: And you were not familiar with this camera, were you?
A: Not prior to June 4th, yes
M: So what this required you to do, and I understand that you're going to say you don't remember, I'm not asking that, but I, wouldn't you acknowledge then that it took some mechanical movement and thinking, and by mechanical movement I mean fingers, and some thought process on your part in order to delete these images, right?
N: Calls for speculation
J: Overruled
A: I would agree with that
M: And you would agree that the deleting these items from the camera was not in any way necessary for you to do prior to leaving Mr. Alexander's home.
A: I don't understand what you means.
M: Well, there is nothing, you acknowledge, there is nothing that was pressing about , or threatening about the camera that required you to delete these images, right?
A: Um, I don't know what you mean
M: Well, in order for you to delete them ma'am you have to view them
A: Yes
M: And if you view them, then the decision is made. And I know you're going to say you don't remember, but you acknowledge then that a decision is made by you to delete this photograph, right/
A: There must have been, yes
M: And you would agree, then, that if the police don't find this photograph that would be beneficial to you, wouldn't it, in terms of your culpability involving Mr. Alexander's death?
A: I would not agree with that
M: K, exhibit number 163, so you think this helps your case?
A: I don't agree with that, either
M: 163 there are the, that's the floor board would you agree?
A: Yes
M: And this is the hallway that you claim that you ran down, correct?
A: Yes, uh-huh
M: And that would mean that this up here would be Mr. Alexander, correct?
A: Yes
M: And that reddish substance would be blood, right?
A: yes
M: And again if we apply the same analysis that we did before, you would acknowledge that the person who deleted this photograph was you?
A: Um, yeah, I guess.
M: There were other things that were done to the scene. Take a look at exhibit. Let's take a look at exhibit number 67 followed by exhibit 68. Do you see 67?
A: yes
M: There is blood there, isn't there, ma'am?
A: Yes
M: That's not your blood, right?
A: I don't think my blood is there.
M: That would be Mr. Alexander's blood, right?
A: Yes
M: And you would agree that to the right of that it appears there is more, if you will, a different pattern . In other words, the pattern on the right is not as dark as the one on the left, right
A: Yes
M: :And you would agree that if you, if you had socks on, which we know that you did, and you were walking through the blood that this would be the kind of pattern that your socks would leave, right?
A: I don't know
N: Objection ...wearing socks at that time
J: overruled
A: I'm not sure.
M: Take a look at exhibit 130, you see that?
A: Yes
M: Would you agree then that we've seen the photograph and it's exhibit number 162 and if we look at, this is exhibit 162, do you see it?
A: Yes
M: and you told us that to this end over here is the bathroom, over here do you see that?
A: Yes
M: And if we look at this exhibit which is 130, you would agree that the bathroom is in this direction, correct?
A: Yes
M: So that if his foot that we were looking at would be right about where my pen is, or right in front of that door, right?
A: yes
M: And the door that's behind it is the door that you claim he was banging his head on back on August 7 of 2007, I'm sorry, August of 2007, right?.
A: yes
M: And you would agree, ma'am, that if this is the pattern that we have here and his head is in this direction as we see it in the picture, then because of the way the blood is flowing down, this is where his head was resting, right here?
A: I think, I don't know, I guess
M: He would not be the person that would be leaving these marks here to the right, because he wasn't standing, was he.
N: Objection, she's already said she has no memory it would call for speculation
J: Sustained
M: 162, is he standing there ma'am?
A: no
M: Would you acknowledge that after every thing you know he is not going to stand after that?
N: Objection, calls for speculation
J: Overruled
A: I would be very inclined to agree with that
M: you told us, ma'am that there was just this shooting when he was coming at you from the bathroom, right?
A: Yes
M: I'm sorry, from the closet, my mistake
A: yes
M: And that he came at you, then you showed us the pose and then according to you, the shooting happened, right?
A: Yes
M: You would agree, ma'am that the shooting, where it occurred, is not near to what is pictured in exhibit 98, correct?
A: Yes
M: you weren't bleeding, even though you said you had an injury to your left ring-finger,
you weren't bleeding that profusely to put all this blood here, right
A: Um, well my left ring-finger wasn't bleeding at all, so
M: The answer's no
A: That's correct
M: That is not your blood, right?
A: No, I don't think it is
M: And again, based on what we, what you know about this case and based on the fact that you acknowledge that you've done the shooting and acknowledging that that was his foot in this photograph, you would have to agree that the person would have to be standing, or Mr. Alexander would have to be standing for that blood to be placed there, right?
N: Objection, cause for speculation
J: Overruled
A: I would think, yes I would think that
M: Ma'am one of the things that happened or that was found on the body was a glass. Are you aware of that?
A: Yes
M: Before the murder, there was no glass in the bathroom, right?
A: There was, it's under the sink
M: It's under the sink then, right?
A: Yes
M: So you would agree that if it's under the sink before the murder and it was found on top of him after the murder, you would agree that you were the person, you would acknowledge that you were the person that went underneath the sink, got the glass, correct?
A: I would acknowledge that
M: And you would acknowledge that you used that glass to clean up or throw it on the floor of that bathroom.
A: I don't know what I did with it
M: If there were lots of water in the bathroom after the killing, for example if we take a look at exhibit number 118, you see that, the water marks here?
A: Yes
M: You would acknowledge that these water marks in red-colored blood, or what appears to be blood, you would acknowledge that you're the person that created those marks, correct/
A: Yes
M: And you would also acknowledge ma'am, that these reddish spots here are Mr. Alexander's blood, correct?
A: Yes
M: Which would indicate that he was in that area bleeding, correct?
A: yes
M: and exhibit 125 shows us the relationship between the closet to the right, correct?
A: Yes
M: The closet to the left, correct/
A: Yes
M: And the end of the hallway into the bedroom, right?
A: Yes
M: And ma'am you would agree that we've now seen that there was staining, 128, here, do you see that and it's concentrated there, do you see that?
A: Yes
M: And we've heard that it's nowhere else in the top floor of that bedroom and we also know that you were the only one walking around in 162 wearing socks, you see that?
A: Yes
M: You would acknowledge, ma'am that prior to walking out from here and leaving you would acknowledge that you took those socks off, correct?
A: I don't know
M: Well, you would acknowledge that there was not blood other than this area here, you see that/
A: Yes
M: So you would acknowledge that if you did have blood on your socks, and there was water on the floor and you were walking in It, you would acknowledge that there may be, based on whatever experience you have there may be other blood throughout wherever it was you stepped?
N: Objection, argumentative and calls for speculation
J: Overruled, you may answer
A: Um, can you please repeat that?
M: You would acknowledge that you took your socks off before you went in the bedroom,
A: I don't know
M: Because you knew, I'm not saying you remember it, because you knew that they had blood on them and you didn't want to get the rest of the bedroom dirty
N: Objection calls for speculation, she says she doesn't even remember removing her socks.
J: Sustained
M: ma'am, you did leave the house, though didn't you?
A: Yes
M: you would acknowledge that you left, right?
A: Yes

 

[minor4th]

Last day of cross afternoon part 2


Originally posted by ingra1327


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - *graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**


M: And you would acknowledge that there was no record anywhere in Arizona, of you ever being in Arizona, other than this killing, right?
A: No, I disagree with that
M: Are there receipts for example from the places you filled up with gas?
A: No, at one time there would have been surveillance video, but no.
M: you think there was surveillance video, okay. Isn't it true ma'am that as you drove out of Arizona, one of the things that you did was that you used the gasoline in those three cans to fill up, to put in your car.
N: Objection
J: Overruled
A: Will you repeat that, sorry?
M: You will acknowledge, ma'am, that in Arizona, you filled up the car from the gas the three gas cans that were in your possession filled with gas.
A: I didn't have three gas cans in my possession
M: Ma'am do you remember in Pasadena, there were three separate transactions, do you remember that?
A: yes
M: There was one at the pump, do you remember that?
A: Yes
M: There was also one inside the store, if you will, do you remember that one?
A: Yes
M: Of approximately 10 gallons, do you remember that?
A: Yes
M: And then there was another transaction inside the store, you acknowledge that, right?
A: Yeah that was the 2 gallons or something
M: Right, 2.7 gallons, right?
A: yes
M: There were three transactions in Pasadena, correct?
A: Yes
M: you acknowledge that there are two gas cans that Mr. Brewer gave you, correct?
A: Yes
M: and you acknowledge that you bought one gas can from Walmart, right?
A: I understand that you say you returned it, but you did have, at least at some point, you acknowledge, have three gas cans, right?
A: Yes, in Salinas, I did.
M: Pardon?
A: In Salinas, I did
M: And so the gas that you had in those gas cans you placed in your car in Arizona, right?
A: No, I didn't need to do that.
M: Well, ma'am do you remember that you told us on direct examination that the next time you could remember anything was when you were way out in the middle of the desert?
A: That's correct
M: And do you remember the testimony of Det. Larry Gladdish, who indicated that the phone call to Mr. Alexander's telephone was 57 miles north of Kingman Do you remember that?
A: Um, no, but okay, I will assume he said that.
M: Ok, but you do remember that you testified that you were out in the middle of the desert, do you remember that?
A: Um, yes
M: And do you remember that you said that you stopped, right?
A: Yes
M: And do you remember that you said I got rid of the gun, right?
A: Yes
M: So you would acknowledge ma'am, that even though immediately after this killing happened, you say you went into a fog, do you remember saying that?
A: uh, it was in a fog, yes
M: You were in a fog, right?
A: Yes
M: And one of the things that we know from your own admission was that there was a gun that was involved, right?
A: Yes
M: that's what you used to shoot him, right?
A: Yes
M: And so this gun that you tell us, you took it out to the desert, didn't you?
A: Yes
M: You were the one that removed it from the house, right?
A: Yes
M: If you didn't know what was going on, if you were in a fog ma'am, which means that you don't know the status of your current events, or the status of what's going on, would you agree that there would be no need to take the gun, if you were unaware of your status?
A: I would not agree with that
M: Even though you're in a fog, there's a decision, a knowing decision a voluntary movement that is made, to take the gun on your part, right?
A: I think you're getting fog confused, my memory was in a fog, I don't remember what happened after those things.
M: I'm not asking if you remember that, please, that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking whether you acknowledge that you removed the gun from the crime scene.
A: Yes
M: And you do acknowledge that if you're in a fog, you're in a fog about everything, not just certain specific things, right?
A: I don't know.
M: Well, it's your fog!
A: Is that a question
M: Yes it is
A: What is the
M: It's your fog, isn't it?
A: Yes
M: With regard to this particular fog that you are in, why would you even think of taking the gun unless you really knew what was going on.
A: I could only speculated because I don't remember.
M: If you were in a fog and you didn't know what you were doing, why take the gun, ma&#8217;am?
N: Objection, asked and answered, argumentative
J: Overruled
A: I don't remember taking the gun, I remember throwing the gun.
M: If you remembered throwing the gun, you recognized where the gun came from, didn't you?
A: I recognized it as Travis's gun, yes.
M: I know you say that it's Travis's gun, but shortly before embarking on this trip to Mesa, Arizona on May 28, 2008, your grandfather had a 25 caliber gun taken during a burglary, right?
A: Yes
M: And you knew about that, right?
A: I found out about it when I got back into town.
M: The answer is yes, you did know, didn't you?
A: Yes, afterward
M: You did know on May 28, 2008 that there was a burglary at your grandfather's house, correct?

A: Yes
M: And you're telling us that June 4th, after the murder you stopped on the side of the road, right?
A: yes
M: And according to you you have one of the implements that was used to kill Mr. Alexander, correct/
A: Yes
M: If you didn't think that you had done anything wrong, and you were in this fog that you weren't thinking, why get rid of it, why get rid of it?
A: I never said I didn't think I did anything wrong.
M: Oh, so you acknowledge then, that you believe you did something wrong with regard to Mr. Alexander then, right?
A: I believed that something
M: Yes or no, yes or no.
A: very bad had happened, um how did you word that again?
M: You believe that you did something wrong with regard to Mr. Alexander
A: Yes
M: and that belief you had was with you on the side of the road to the point you got rid of the gun, right?
A: Well, I just threw it, so year,
M: You did get rid of the gun, right?
A: Yes
M: and this knowing that you had done something wrong was preceded by you removing the gun from the crime scene, right?
A: Yes
M: So you would agree that at the crime scene, you knew that what you had done was wrong, correct/
A: I would say that that would be accurate, but I don't remember
M: and you were trying to alter the crime-scene, weren't you?
A: It appears that way.
M: Well, no, based on what you know, there was an altering of the crime scene, wasn't there?
A: Yes
M: The gun was taken, right?
A: yes
M: And you know that you took it, right?
A: yes
M: we also know that there was no knife that was found up in the bathroom area, right?
A: Yes
M: so we know that you took it right?
A: I don't remember having the knife at all afterwards.
M: But there was no knife up there, right?
A: not, I haven't heard any testimony about that, so
M: You would acknowledge, ma'am, that exhibit 193, that Mr. Alexander was stabbed. You would acknowledge that, right?
A: yes (hand over face)
M: And you would acknowledge that that stabbing was with the knife, right?
A: Yes
M: And according to your version of events, you would acknowledge that that stabbing was after the shooting according to you, right?
A: Yes, I don't remember
M: I'm not asking if you remember, ma'am, I'm asking if you acknowledge that it would be you that did it, correct?
A: Yes
M: And you would acknowledge that a lot of the stab wounds and we can count them together, were to the back of the head, and the back of the torso, correct?
A: Ok, I don't want to count them, I don't know, I'll just take your word for it.
M: Would you like to look at the photograph?
A: No
M: So if he is being stabbed in the back, would you acknowledge that at that point, he's no threat to you, right?
N: Objection, calls for speculation
J: Overruled
A: I don't know
M: Well, if he's already been shot according to you, and he's facing away from you, how could he possibly be any threat to you?
A: I could only guess, I don't know what you&#8217;re asking me.
M: Well, with regard, to the, you were here when the medical examiner testified about the would to the throat. Do you remember that?
A: yes
M: With regard to that wound, ma'am, you would acknowledge that that was in term of the stab wounds, you would acknowledge that that was the last wound in the sequence of events?
N: Objection, she says she doesn't remember
J: overruled that was the
N: How can she acknowledge the sequence of the stabs when she doesn't remember it?
J: That wasn't the question, overruled, you may answer the question
A: Are you talking about his testimony?
M: Yes
A: I disagree with the sequence of events.
M: Would you agree that you're the person that actually slip Mr. Alexander's throat from ear to ear?
A: Yes
M: would you also agree that you're the individual that stabbed him in the upper torso?
A: Yes
M: And you're doing all this to this, according to your version of events, you're doing this to this individual after you've already shot him, right?
A: Yes
M: Correct?
A: I believe so
M: Well no, do you remember previously talking about how he was coming after you, and he was this horrible man with this mean face? Do you remember telling me that?
A: Yes, I didn't say he was horrible.
M: Okay, thank you for correcting me, but do you remember telling us that he was a mean man?
A: Not today
M: But previously you did say that he was a mean man, correct?
A: I think I did, yes
M: And on this particular occasion you told us that he was cursing at you, right?
A: Yes
M: that he threw you down, right?
A: Yes
M: That he chased you down, right?
A: yes,
M: And this is the individual that you shot first, right?
A: I didn't know if I shot him, just the gun went off.
M: the gun went off, you can at least acknowledge that, right?
A: Yes
M: That's something that you do remember, correct?
A: Yes
M: Ma'am one of the things that we also know is that there was this rope that was involved earlier in the evening or in the day at 1:00, do you remember telling us about that, around 1:30?
A: Yes
M: that it involved this sexual interlude with you and Mr. Alexander, right?
A: Yes
M: And you told us that it went behind the headboard,
A: Yes
M: Police did not find a rope there, correct?
A: Yes
M: You took that rope, didn't you?
A: yes
M: Why did you take that rope, ma'am, if you were in a fog?
A: I don't know. I don't remember taking it.
M: The rope, according to you it didn't have anything to do with the killing, did it?
A: No, not that I remember.
M: But you acknowledge that there was this rope that was taken, right?
A: Yes
M: Don't you also acknowledge that you were the one that threw it away?
A: Yes
M: And you also acknowledge that you were the one that took it, right?
A: um, yes
M: And even though you were in this fog that you call it, you knew, as you're walking in this fog, to go looking around for this particular rope, as you say, right?
A: I don't know
M: Well, you did say that you did take it, right?
A: Yes
M: And in fact you remember where you threw it away, right?
A: Um, I think it was in a dumpster.
M: Right you threw it away in a dumpster, right?
A: Yeah.
M: Other than that it would show that you had been there, ma'am, why take the rope and then get rid of it?
A: I don't know, maybe for that very reason, I don't know.
M: So you did take the rope, then?
A: nods
M: You also changed clothing, right?
A: I think I did
M: Well, you said you pulled off the side of the road in the desert, right?
A: Yes
M: And then you said that you went to the trunk of the car, right?
A: Yes
M: Isn't it true, ma'am that that's where you claim to have the gas cans?
A: That's where they were
M: Pardon
A: That's where they were.
M: And so the gas cans with the gas were in the back with the water, right?
A: yes, the case of water and my suitcase.
M: And you found that you had some blood on you, correct?
A: Yes
M: And back then there was this stop, or security check-point before Hoover Dam, right?
A: I pulled over before that
M: Right, you weren't in so much of a fog that you didn't know that the checkpoint existed, right?
A: I did not know that the check-point existed
M: Well you just told me that you knew the check-point was there, do you remember telling me that/
A: I came to know of it's existence when I drove up to it, or when there was a sign or something
M: But conveniently , or to your advantage, you stopped the car before you got to the checkpoint, right?
A: A long time before the check-point, when I called Ryan or texted somebody or Leslie or someone.
M: So the answer is yes, right?
A: Yes
M: And one of the things that you did was that you got the water from the trunk, right?
A: Yes
M: You cleaned your hands, right?
A: Yes
M: And you changed your socks or put some shoes on, correct?
A: um, I put socks and shoes on, I think
M: Right, and you took the bloody clothes that you had on and you took those off, right?
A: um, I think I did
M: Well, do you remember testifying that you threw them away along with the gun?
A: I don't recall throwing my clothes out in the desert.
M: But you did changes in anticipation of the check-point, right?
A: no, I didn't know there was a check-point til I reach it
M: Well, you will acknowledge that this changing or washing of hands occurred before you got to the check-point whether you knew, or not the check-point was there.
A: That's correct
M: And you would agree that it was to your advantage to be, to have clean hands and clothing that is not soiled with blood if you're going to go through a check-point, correct?
A: that wasn't my line of thinking but I would agree with what you said.
M: You are making some calls at that time, aren't you?
A: Prior to the checkpoint, yes
M: You have the, I guess the ability to say, I'm going to look through the car to see if I can find my charger, right?
A: Um, I wasn't looking for my charger, but I looked through the car
M: You were looking through the car then, when you pulled over?
A: Yes
M: And when you pulled over, you found a charger according to you underneath the seat, right?
A: Yes
M: And that allowed you to make some telephone calls, right?
A: Not right away because there was no reception.
M: But you made some telephone calls before you reached the Arizona-Nevada border, right?
A: Yes, I turned my phone on and it just took awhile to place a call because the call kept dropping.
M: Right, it was before the checkpoint, right?
A: Yes
M: And while you were driving, and we're you driving at that time when the telephone was in a position to make calls out?
A: I believe, yes
M: So when it first came on so that it had the ability for calls to be made, how far was it to the check-point?
A: It felt like an hour.
M: It felt like an hour? Do you know where Kingman is?
A: No
M: And when this telephone came on, you started to make telephone calls, right?
A: I attempted to, I was only able to send text messages.
M: I realize that you are only talking about text messages, I'm talking about telephone calls. You were able to call Ryan Burns, right?
A: Yes
M: And even though you were in this fog, that you're telling us about, you were able to call him and make up a lie, right?
A: The fog that I'm referring to relates to my memory,
M: Right, in relation to your memory, you could have told Mr. Burns that you were with Mr. Alexander, but you didn't, right?
A: That's right
M: Instead you made up a story, didn't you.
A: Yes
M: So this fog that you're talking about, it wasn't so heavy that it prevented you from thinking and making up a lie
A: Um, yes, that's right
M: You made up a lie that you had lost your charger, right?
A: Yes
M: You made up a lie that you had gone to a gas station to get the charger, right?
A: No, that's not what I told him.
M: And so Mr. Burns is full of crap when he tells us that?
A: No, he just has a poor memory on some things.
M: And you know that based on that one limited time you met him in West Jordan Utah, correct?
A: No, I know that from all his inconsistent statements to police
M: but you only met him one time, right?
A: Um
M: As a romantic interest
A: Yes
M: You also told him that you got lost
A: I did say that
M: That was also not true, correct?
A: um, well technically it was, but not for the reason I was telling it.

M: No, ma'am you actually knew where you were going, you were going to Mr. Alexander's house, you knew that, right?
A: No, I got lost after leaving his house, that's what I mean so technically I did get lost, but that's not why I told Ryan that.
M: Even though there's this technicality, are you telling us that when you told Mr. Burns you got lost you were clear wit h him that the reason you got lost was that you killed Mr. Alexander and you'd been driving and you got lost that way? Or did you tell him you got lost a different way?
A: I don't remember what way, I think I made up something stupid and I certainly didn't tell him I got lost about Travis, I told him I got lost to deceive him
M: Right, so even in this fog, you still have the ability to think, to protect yourself, right?
A: Yes
M: And the other thing that you did is you attempted to call Matthew McCartney, right?
A: Yes
M: And you attempted to call Mr. Brewer, right?
A: Um, I don't remember, I might have
M: One of the other things that you did, and you know we were talking about protecting yourself, is that you , immediately, almost immediately when you say you come out of this fog one of the first things that you do is you try to divert attention away from you so that the police won't think you had anything to do with this killing, right?
A: Yes
M: And this fog that you're telling us about is not so deep that it stops you from fabricating or attempting to fabricate evidence, right?
A: Um, that would be correct
M: And it's not so deep that, according to you, you can stay on the telephone and know the prompts so you can get the telephone message just right, according to you, right?
A: Well just so I wasn't crying in the message, yes
M: Right, but you want the message to be just so, so that it sounds natural, right?
A: yeah, as natural as possible, right
M: And you went to great lengths according to you, didn't you?
A: Yes
M: and the reason that you went to great lengths to do that was so that if there was any suspicion, it would be drawn to you, right?
A: Not immediately, that was the point, yes
M: You wanted the police to look elsewhere, right?
A: I guess
M: Well, no, you made the call knowing the reason why you made the call, right?
A: yes
M: If you really weren't wanting to fabricate evidence you would have just left whatever message instead of worrying about crying or whatever else you were worrying about, right?
A: That's right
M: And so you call Mr. Alexander and you left him a message, right?
A: Yes
M: Let's play it and see what you said.
A: big sigh

 

[minor4th]

Last hour of cross part 3


Originally posted by ingra1327


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - *graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**

This is exhibit number 365.

(47:21) Message plays: &#8220;hey what's going on, just calling...anyway this is probably the time your starting to gear up, I know Leslie called you so I already talked to her, so, uh, you can call her back if you want, but it's not necessary. Um, my phone died so I wasn't getting back to anybody. Um, and what else, oh and I drove a hundred miles in the wrong direction, over a hundred miles thank you very much, so yeah, remember in New Mexico, it was a lot like that only you weren't here to protect me from going into the three digits, so fun, fun, tell you all about that later. Also, we were talking about when we were talking about your upcoming travels my way, I was looking at the May calendar, duh, so I'm all confused, but Heather and I are going to see Othello on July 1st and we would love for you to accompany us, um I don't know what's...for you though, but you know it's on the list so we could do Shakespeare, Crater Lake and the coast, if you can make it, or if not, we'll just do the coast and Crater Lake, but let me know and I'll talk to you soon, bye. End of message. To delete this message press 7, to save it in the archives press 9. To hear Message will be saved for 21.
M: That's you, correct?
A: correct
M: That's you lying on the message, right?
A: Yes
M: You're telling, or leaving the message for Mr. Alexander indicating you got lost, fun, fun, right?
A: Yes
M: That's not true, right
A: That's not true.
M: Asking him or talking to him about coming up to visit you up in Yreka and doing some of the things that you mentioned, you know that that's not true, either, right?
A: No, that was our plan before June 4th
M: That was the plan before June 4th, but you're talking to him, or leaving the message for him indicating that you know your sorry you couldn't stop by, but you guys could make up for it when he comes to visit you, right?
A: Yes
M: that's a lie
A: Yes
M: And all of these lies, ma'am are meant for your benefit so that you can escape responsibility.
A: I don't see how that's to my benefit, I don't know what you mean by benefit, but yeah, so I could escape whatever for the time being.
M: Well, you keep saying for the time being, you would have been happy to avoid the consequences for a long time wouldn't have you?
A: I can't say I would be happy,
M: You would have preferred that, wouldn't you?
N: Objection, relevance
J: overruled
A: I don't know how to answer that
M: Well, you didn't go to the police with any of your information ever, until they contacted you, right?
A: um, I think I initiated the contact.
M: Oh, so you're saying when you called the police, you told them the truth?
A: I'm not saying that
M: You would have been satisfied to avoid any responsibility for the killing of Mr. Alexander, wouldn't you?
A: I don't know if satisfied is the word, probably relieved.
M: okay, you would have been relieved to avoid any consequences for the killing of Mr. Alexander, correct?
A: Um, that was, that was my goal that day
M: And that's why you left this message that we heard in exhibit 365, correct?
A: Well, that's part of the reason.
M: Well, that was the main reason wasn't it?
A: Yes
M: I mean there would be really no other reason to leave a dead man a telephone call would there?
A: I probably wouldn't have done that but Leslie said she um called his phone asking for me cuz I was missing and then I thought maybe I should do something about that and that's why I did it. So ultimately that was the main reason, yes
M: So you're looking to Leslie Uti as the reason that you made that telephone call, ma'am?
A: no, I said the other to avoid whatever was the ultimate reason
M: You gave me a reason involving Leslie Uti right now, didn't you?
A: Yes, I wouldn't have thought to leave a message if she hadn't , if I hadn't talked to her prior to her leaving that message and then she said that, um, we've been calling and we called Travis and left a message and that kind of thing
M: But she told you that ma'am, knowing, believing that he was still alive, didn't she?
A: Yes
M: You knew better though.
A: um, I think I did
M: And so you didn't have to follow her advice
A: She didn't give me advice
M: Well, you didn't have to follow her words, did you?
A: Um, I didn't have to but it reminded me of her cell phone, I chose to do it, I chose to, if you're going down the route saying Leslie Ute made me do that, I'm not saying that.
M: I'm not saying Leslie made you do it. I'm saying you're looking again, in a personal relationship, in an issue that is absolutely yours to own, you're looking for somebody else, saying Leslie Uti I talked to her and as a result of talking to Leslie Uti, that's why I left this message.
N: Objection, argumentative
J: Sustained
M: Ma'am, Leslie Uti really didn't have anything to do with that call, right?
A: I mean I made the call, I just got the idea after speaking with her.
M: So, she was the reason why you got the idea, then?
A: That kind of I guess
M: And according to you if it had not been for Leslie Uti, you wouldn't have thought about it, right?
A: I probably would have thought about it eventually, but maybe not I don't know. I just know that I thought of it after she mentioned that she had left a message on his voice mail.
M: and so because of this outside stimulus, you decided to leave this message, it was your decision.
A: It was my decision
M: Just like visiting Mr. Alexander was your decision, right?
A: Yes
M: On June 4th 2008, it was your decision, right?
A: yes
M: Even though you told us before that he guilted you, that really wasn't the reason you went, you wanted to go, correct?
A: Part of me did and part of me didn't, obviously the bigger part did cuz I went and he did guilt me and ultimately it still was my decision.
M: So you made the decision to go, right?
A: Yes
M: And then, though, after that, you did something else to cover-up, didn't you?
A: Yes.
M: Let's take a look at another exhibit. Take a look at exhibit number 504. Recognize it?
A: yes
M: It's a text message that you sent, right?
A: Yes
M: What's the date on it
A: the 6th of June
M: Pardon
A: June 6th 2008
M: and it's to Mr. Alexander, correct?
A: Yes
M: And again the hours are off by seven, correct?
A: Um, yeah, I didn't look at the hours.
M: Why don't you just take a look at the hours, so we can make sure.
A: Ok
M: They're off by seven, correct?
A: Yes
M: I move for the admission of exhibit 504
N: No objection
J: 504's admitted

M: Let's take a look at this text message. First of all that's your telephone number here on the left, correct?
A: Yes, it was
M: And the date there is 6/6/08, correct?
A: yes
M: We take the seven hours away from the 16:58, what we're really talking, seven hours from 16:58 what we're really talking about is 9:58 in the morning, is that correct?
A: yes
M: this is while you were still on the road driving home, correct?
A: Yes , I believe it was
M: And why don't you read to us what the message is that you left for Mr. Alexander.
A: Hey, I need to know when you're going to deposit that check.
M: You're referring to the check involving the car, correct?
A: Yes
M: The check that you know was uncashed in his, um, desk in his office, right?
A: I didn't know where it was, but I figured it wasn't cashed.
M: And in fact there was a conversation you had with the detective where you talked to him about the uncashed check, correct?
A: yes
M: So you knew that it was uncashed, correct?
A: by, yeah, by the time it hadn't cleared by whenever I talked to him, I knew it wasn't cashed
M: But another thing that you knew on this date was that Mr. Alexander was dead, didn't you?
A: Yeah.
M: And you did that again, so you could cover up what you'd done, right?
A: yes
M: Cause you did not want to be faced with whatever consequences that were involved, right?
A: I was afraid of the consequences
M: And because you were afraid, that was good enough for you to send something like that, right?
N: Objection, argumentative
J: Restate
M: The reason that you gave to us that you were afraid, in your mind, even though the fog had lift, even though there was a fog that was involved, you felt it was okay to send this message?
A: I didn't feel it was okay, it's not like that, so I guess that would be no.
M: So why are you sending it, are you sending it so he can reach you in the grave, or what?
A: No
M: You're sending it so that, as you previously said involving the telephone calls, so you won't have to face the consequences of what you did, right?
A: Yes
M: Just like the scene, you're trying to manipulate the evidence, right?
A: Yes
M: Let's take a look at another exhibit. Exhibit 505. Do you recognize this?
A: yeah
M: And that's an email, right?
A: Yeah
M: Sent by you, right?
A: Yes
M: Sent to Mr. Alexander, correct?
A: to his email
M: And what date and time was it sent.
A: Saturday June 7th, 2008
M: And what time?
A: I'm sorry 10:21
M: I move for the admission of exhibit 505.
N: No objection
J: 505 is admitted
M: Let's take a look at it. It's from you, right?
A: Yes
M: And you've already told us the date and time. You're sending it, even though you know he's dead, right? A way to stage the scene.
A: I think so, that was my goal, I think
M: Well, I didn't hear you
A: That was my
M: Goal, right?
A: Yeah
M: Why don't you start with &#8220;hey, you&#8221; and read what it says.
N: Objection, the fact that is was send is enough
J: Overruled
A: Hey you, I haven't heard back from you. I hope you're not still upset that I didn't come to see you. I just didn't have enough time off, it's ok, sweetie, you're going to be here in less than two weeks&#8212;we're going to see the sights, (she breaks down
M: You also right check things off &#8220;The List&#8221; and all kinds of fun things, right?
A: Yes
M: You say &#8220; Oregon is BEAUTIFUL this time of the year. Yaaay!....be happy!&#8221;, correct?
A: nods
M: Then you say: Anyway, I wanted to let you know that I'm thinking about pushing my visit up to next week but it depends on my budget, so I'm not for sure yet. I know you'll be in Cancun, but I'll probably crash at your house in your cozy bed anyway...eat some of your oatmeal and frozen dinner, you know, the usual-jk =) I know you said the door was always open, but I wanted to give you a heads up. If for any reason that won't work, let me know and I'll make other arrangements. Your house has always been my second home although it's a bit more lonely without Naps around. You're probably in California right now, but wherever you are get a hold of me at least before you head to Mexico, thanks hun, Jodi. You wrote that right?
A: Yes
M: that was your way of an attempt to, again stage the scene, right?
A: Yes
M: I want to play something for you, ma'am. Exhibit 248( Inside Edition): No jury is going to convict me. Reporter: Why is that ma'am? Because I'm innocent and you can mark my words on that one. No jury is going to convict me.&#8221; That's you, right?
A: Yes
M: And that's you saying not that you're not going to be convicted, because you're going to commit suicide or anything like that, is it?
A: that's correct
M: You're saying that you're innocent, right?
A: Yes
M: And you believe that no jury would convict you because you are going to lie your way out of it, right?
A: No
N: Objection, argumentative
J: Sustained
M: Ma'am, you indicated certain things in this court as part of your testimony, didn't you?
A: Yes
M: You indicated that Travis Alexander, that you say him masturbating to a picture, or pictures of young boys, correct?
A: I only saw one picture.
M: Right, you saw him do that, that's a lie, isn't it ma'am.
N: Objection, argumentative
J: Overruled
A: I wish it was a lie.
M: And ma'am with regard to this issue of him being hyper sexual and him being overbearing in that department, that's not true, is it?
N: Objection, argumentative
J: Overruled
A: um, it's true that he was hyper sexual, it isn't true that he was overbearing.
J: I'm not asking you if he was hyper sexual, I asked if he was overbearing
A: You said hyper sexual
M: Alright, let's go with overbearing, then
A: No, I don't think he was overbearing
M: And in fact, you gave as well as you took, didn't you?
N: Objection, calls for speculation
J: sustained
M: You were in it to the same extent that he was, in the activities, right?
N: Objection, calls for speculation
J: rephrase
M: Ma'am for example, we saw some of the text messages that you sent to him., right?
A: Yes
M: We heard some of the conversations that you had with him, right?
A: Yes
M: You indicated, for example, I don't need to go into all of them, that you wanted to sexually blossom, do you remember that?
A: Yes
M: And you specifically said that you wanted a facial, do you remember that?
A: Yes
M: So you were enjoying the sex, weren't you?
A: Yes, most of it, yes?
M: And yes you came in here and for days upon days you told us how uncomfortable he made you feel, right?
A: Only those times, we didn't talk about all the other times.
M: And ma'am additionally, you talked about how he was physically abusive to you during your testimony, right?
A: Yes
M: You said in your testimony, for example, in March you were going to move to Yreka that he hit you on the freeway, right?
A Yes
M: But we took a look at your journal entry, do you remember that?
A: Yes
M: an your journal entry speaks otherwise, doesn't it?
A: It doesn't speak of the incident
M: No, it spoke of tenderness, three soft kisses, doesn't it?
A: Yes
M: And involving the allegation that he kicked you and did something to your finger, you remember that we also took a look at your journal
A: Yes
M: And in that journal, that journal indicated that on the day that was supposed to have happened, nothing noteworthy happened. That's what your journal said, right?
A: Over the span of those 4 days
M: Right, and on January 22nd when you allegedly saw him in the masturbatory conduct, that's also when you wrote in your journal that nothing noteworthy occurred, right?
A: I'm sorry it was on the 21st, but
M: Right the 21st, but your journal entry of the 24th covers January 21st doesn't it?
A: Yes
M: And so you believe that your going to be acquired because you came in and told those stories, don't you?
N: Objection, argumentative
J: overruled
A: I can't predict the future, and that's not why I told the truth, I still planned to kill myself when I told the truth.
M: And you believe that, you're saying that at that time you planned to kill yourself, right?
A: Yes
M: But that's not what you say in there, do you?
A: No, I couldn't say that.
M: I'm not saying whether or not you could say it, you started your testimony on direct examination by saying those are the bitterest words I have ever uttered, do you remember saying that?
A: No, I said those are probably the most bitterest words I will ever eat or something.
M: Right, so you have a very good memory as to what you said about that, right?
A: Yes
M: And you said that the reason that you made that comment that no jury would convict you because you were going to commit suicide, right?
A: That's right
M: But in this clip that we saw, you actually say, it's because you're innocent, right?
A: Yes, of first degree murder, and I'm innocent of that
M: Yeah, it does say that you're innocent, right?
A: Yes
M: Even that's a lie, isn't it ma'am
A: Um
N: Objection
A: Not how I
N: Objection, argumentative
M: Rephrase the question
M: Isn't in inconsistent, your testimony, isn't it inconsistent with this exhibit, 248, what you say in exhibit 248?
N: Objection ,that's not accurate &#8230;
J: Approach , you may continue, objection overruled
M: In this exhibit 248, you heard yourself, right?
A: yes
M: You said I'm innocent, no jury will convict me, right?
A: Yes
M: Where as when you started this direct examination, your testimony, you said that the reason I said no jury would convict me was because I planned to kill myself, right?
A: I said that I planned to be dead, yes
M: because you planned to commit suicide, right?
A: That's correct
M: Those are two different stories, aren't they.
A: No, on the stand I explained why I didn't say suicide as opposed to the alternative, because there was an officer sitting a few feet behind me and if I would have said that, they would have hauled me off to a padded room, stripped me naked, and I would have lived there until whenever.
M: So what you are saying, even today, that when you say you are innocent, that means to you that there is an officer sitting next to you and you didn't want him to know that you wanted to commit suicide, right? That's what you're saying?
A: When I made that statement?
M: Yes, when you say innocent, that's what you equate it with
A: Yes, well definitely innocent of pre-planning whatever you were trying to say, but
M: No, I'm not asking about that, I'm asking about the statements. Isn't it true that the statements are different, that's all I'm asking?
A: Yeah, they're different
M: I don't have anything else, ma'am

 

[minor4th]

Morning testimony: redirect 3/4


Originally posted by ingra1327


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - *graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**

N: good morning, Miss Arias
A: Good morning
N: Last week when you spoke to Mr. Martinez you were asked several questions about taking personal responsibility and how you blamed everyone else. Do you remember that line of questioning at various points during the week?
A: Yes
N: In that regard, let me ask you a couple questions. Were you forced to testify?
A: No
N: When you chose to testify did you do so with the idea that the lies you told would be called into question?
A: Yes
N: And you chose to testify anyway?
M: Objection, relevance
J: Approach
N: Miss Arias, getting back to my question, knowing that you were going to, you knew that you were going to be questioned about the lies you told, or you assumed you'd be questioned about the lies you told throughout this process when you chose to testify, right?
A: Yes
N: and you chose to do it anyway, you chose to testify anyway, right?
A: Yes
N: And in terms of admitting certain things against this claim that you didn't take any personal responsibility, I recall days ago, one of the first questions I asked you was whether or not you killed Travis Alexander on June 4th, 2008, do you recall that?
A: Yes
N: And do you recall your answer to that question?
A: yes
N: Yes, and your answer was that you did in fact kill Travis Alexander on June 4th, 2008, do you remember that/
A: Yes
M: Objection, misstates what she said. She killed him but...(can't hear)
J: Sustained
N: You also told us why you were forced to do that, didn't yourself
A: Yes
N: Remind us why was that
A: Well, he was trying to kill me so I was defending myself
N: Did you go to Mr. Alexander's home on June 4th with the intent on killing him?
A: No, I didn't
N: At any point on that day of June 4th 2008 did you make a conscious decision that I want to kill Travis Alexander?
A: No, that was never a though
N: Miss Arias when you began talking to counsel for the state you were shown a couple of exhibits and I want to cover those for you. Actually let me first show you...photographs occurred , I'm showing you exhibit 452 and 453.
A: Yes
N: And Do you remember the date that the photograph took place?
A: May 15, 2008
N: I'm sorry you say May15th?
A: Correct
N: I'm showing you what's been marked as exhibit 452. If I recall correctly, that's you and your sister Angela, correct?
A: Yes
N: And that is your hand around her, right
A: That's right
N: And in exhibit 453 that's your hand again, right? And before we make, before we move on past this photograph, you would concede that there's no visible bend in your finger at least in terms of any injury, correct/
A: Correct, well it's sort of bent
N: Going back to 452, I know, it appears Angela is wearing a hat, but it appears she is at least a few inches shorter than you, is that fair to say
A: Yes that's her height
N: How tall are you Miss Arias?
A: 5 foot 5 or 6
N: I'm a little taller than you so I'm going to ask Miss Wilmot to come forward. Jodi if you could step down here in front of the jury
M: If the purpose is to add to Miss Wilmots height with whatever it is she's wearing, I would object on the grounds of relevance.
J: Overruled
N: And we'll have for the record Miss Wilmot state her height
W: I would say I'm 5'3&#8221;, 5'4&#8221; with heels. I can't be certain, I don't know how high my heels are.
N: If you could, Jodi, and Miss Wilmot, for lack of a better term, recreate the pose we see in exhibit 452. Now if you could turn. Okay, thank you. Now, prior to well we talked a lot about injuries you sustained to your hands, you sustained over injuries, prior to June 4th, immediately prior, I should ask, did you have any, suffer any injuries to either one of your hands.
A: Ye s
N: How did those injuries occur?
A: I believe it was my index fingers and I was putting away margarita glasses at work
M: Objection, lack of foundation
J: Sustained
N: When were you putting away these margarita glasses?
A: I believe, if I remember correctly it was June 1st, that's what the date stamp says
M: And where were you working?
A: Casa Ramos
N: And how did you injure yourself putting away margarita glasses at Casa Ramos?
A: I was just moving to fast and I was being, I was a little bit clumsy, not intentionally, but I just, um, there's a metal shelf beneath the bar and that's where they all sit and cool off because after they come out of the dishwasher, they're really hot and um, so they have to cool off before we can put margaritas in them, or they'll crack. So I was rotating the cool ones from the back out and putting the hot ones in the back and as I was reaching with my hand, I hit some of the metal and I think it peeled back some of the skin and it was a wound.
N: Did you photograph those injuries
A: Yes
N: And how did you do that?
A: just with my phone
N: Okay, would that be the Helio phone we'd been discussing earlier.
A: Yes
N: If I may approach your honor?
J: Yes
N: Miss Arias I want to show you exhibits marked as exhibits 506 and 507 respectively. Can you take a look at both those exhibits and see if you recognize those as the photographs you took?
A: Yes, I guess the date would have been May 31st instead
N: I move to admit exhibits 506 and 507
M: Objection, relevance, these show injuries to the right hand
N: May we approach?
J: you may approach
M: Objection, overruled, exhibits 506 and 507 are admitted
N: And Jodi, while those are being marked into evidence, could you describe for us why you chose to take these photographs?
A: Yes, um, after my boss gave me a big band-aid to cover it because it kind of covered a larger surface area. And so, I went home, took a shower and then after that I peeled it back, just to check on it and it was just kinda gnarly, so it was like a trophy picture, kind of. I was gonna send it to some friends and say look what I did at work, I mean it sounds strange saying that post June 4th, but before that it wasn't, it didn't seem like a big deal. I just, I sent it to a few friends to say look what happened, this is crazy, kind of thing.
N: Okay. I'm showing you what's been marked as exhibit 506. That's one of the cuts you sustained to your hand?
A: Yeah, the fold of the skin is back over the injury
N: And can you tell from this exhibit is this your right or left hand?
A: That would be my right hand.
N: Exhibit 507, is that a photograph of a different injury or the same injury.
A: Same injury, a different angle.
N: And we're talking about your right index finger as well, correct?
A: Correct
N: Okay. Now Miss Arias, you had told us that these injuries occurred on the 31st of May, is that accurate?
A: It would have been the 31st or the 1st, I'm not sure if the time stamp on that is also Greenwich time or if it's Pacific Standard Time.
N: Okay given that you were serving margaritas, would it be safe to assume you weren't working the breakfast shift?
A: That's correct
N: Okay, So it would have either been the evening of the 31st or the evening of the 1st when these injuries occurred, is that correct?
A: Yes
N: And the injuries we just saw in exhibits 506 and 507 had they healed by the time you went to Utah on June 5th or 6th?
A: I think it had healed, mostly
N: Do you recall if you still had bandages on your hand
A: Um, I don't actually recall. I know I eventually had bandages on my hand, but I don't remember if I still had one of my index finger or not or, I don't remember.
N: Okay, now before we get too far of the subject of hand injuries in Utah you said you weren't sure if you had bandages on those, these injuries on your right hand, do you recall if you had any other injuries to your hand?
A: in Utah?
N: In Utah
A: I did, I had band-aids to my right hand I don't think it was the index finger I think they were other fingers, I don't remember, but I know I had bandages on my right hand.
N: Now the bandages on your right hand, you say they may not have been on your index finger, these were these injuries caused by the same incident at Casa Ramos or were they caused by something else?
A: Something else
N: okay and what was that?
A: It was broken glass, I dropped one of Travis's glasses when I was downstairs when I arrived on the morning of June 4th, we were getting water from, he has a cold water dispenser on his fridge so, I was getting water and I dropped one and I was cleaning up the glass because thought I mean, I clean glass up at work and it's not something I'm uncomfortable with so I guess I was being to casual and careless and I cut my hands, my fingers.
N: And you have stated to us that those injuries were on your right hand
A: That's correct
N: How are you so confident of that?
A: That's what I remember pretty clearly
N: Okay. As it relates to your left hand, do you recall having injuries on your left hand when you were in Utah?
A: I don't recall one way or the other, I definitely don't remember an injury. I'm not saying there wasn't, but I don't remember one.
N: Would it be fair to say that whatever injuries you had on your hand when you arrived in Utah, weren't your primary focus?
M: Objection, leading
J: Overruled
A: That would be fair to say.
N: Now we heard about some of the injuries to your hand, we heard about the struggle or fight you had with Mr. Alexander on June 4th, did you have any other injuries visible when you went to Utah?
A: As far as visible, not that I'm aware of, I had other injuries but I don't, I think they were covered with clothing.
N: Are you telling us then, that you had to make effort make sure the injuries were covered?
A: No, it was just, they were around my feet, on my feet and my ankles and I think just because I was wearing socks and shoes they weren't visible.
N: Now this injury, maybe you could be so kind as to hold up your broken finger as you did on direct?
A: Oh, (hold up hand) regular, or this way, like this?
N: When did that injury occur?
A: January 22nd 2008.
N: Now you were asked, and that is the injury you occurred when you testified to having received when Mr. Alexander was kicking you in the ribs and ended up kicking you in the hand
A: That's correct
N: You were asked about any medical attention you might has sought for that, and you said something to the effect of you didn't seek any professional medical attention, do you recall that?
A: Yes
N: Did you receive anything that could be considered quote unquote medical attention, did you bandage it could you just kind of explain that to us?
A: Yes, we didn't bandage it because there was no broken skin, but, um, after Travis calmed down and apologized, he made a splint for it and I just thought that was really nice because he got really angry and he was ashamed
M: Objection beyond the scope of the question medical attention
N: How did you feel about Travis making this, so Travis made this splint for you?
M: Objection, beyond the scope asking feelings about the splint
J: Approach
N: Now, Miss Arias, you were telling us that Mr. Alexander broke your finger, that you didn't receive any professional medical help for it, then Mr. Alexander made a splint for you, is that right?
A: Yes
N: And how did you feel about him making that for you?
A: Um, it sounds kind of weird, but it was kind of endearing because he was very tender with it, he was being very careful and he got a bag of ice and crushed it and we put ice on it and so he just did what he could to right what he had wronged, I guess you could say. So that meant a lot
N: And you found that, that was enough for you to perceive it as endearing, is that right?
A: Yes, the moment was endearing, it seemed very tender, he was very sincere. When I got home I took it off and cried and he made another one for me later, but at the moment when he made it he was just very gentle with it.
N: Okay. During the time you spent answering Mr. Martinez's questions, you know you're talking about how great it was that he made this splint for you, we also saw some journal entries, text messages and things that talked about, in which you praised Travis. Do you remember seeing those through the course of the?
A: Yes
N: I want to ask you about a few of those.
Sidebar
N: When you were talking about some of the things you told us during cross examination, some of the things you've been shown about how great a guy you thought Travis was, I want to show you what's been marked as exhibit 484.
N: Do you see that,
A: Yes
N: You said &#8220;Travis, I want to thank you for being such an amazing friend.&#8221; Was he an amazing friend to you?
A: Yes at times he was very amazing
N: You say at times, we heard about the Cinnabon card that he left on your car when you came home from a trip,
A: Yes
N: Let's before maybe we go beyond that, what made him such an amazing friend to you?
A: It's more about how he made me feel, he would and things he would say. He believed in me, he saw my potential, or saw potential in me and he just made me feel like I could go, I don't know he made me feel really good like I could realize that potential and beyond. And I feel like he saw past whatever exterior was there and saw inside and he made me feel like I was a beautiful person inside.
N: Okay, you said a couple things there, you said he made you feel as if you could realize your potential. Is that something that anyone else, is that feeling something that anyone else had given you in your life.
A: Occasionally, um, Daryl and occasionally Matt, and I don't really remember with Bobby, but I think there were a few art teachers that really believed in me, I don't know
N: Was there something different being the frequency or the type of affirmations about your potential that Mr. Alexander was giving you that was different than the affirmations that you might have been getting from other people in your history?
A: I would say it was different, it was a lot more intense, uh, more frequent, it's kind of like I was swept off my feet, um, he came at me really strong but in a positive way. And It wasn't like what I had experienced before, but it was nothing like what I had experiences before, it was similar in that it was positive, but it was amplified. That would be a good description.
N: You said, you tell him that, you call him a rock, a light and an inspiration. When you said that on April 18th, 2008, was that sincere, your sincere feelings?
A: Yes
N: What did you mean by inspiration, how did he inspire you?
A: He was a motivational speaker and he would give, um, talks sometimes at Prepaid Legal events and he would, he wouldn't just inspire me, he would inspire the whole crowd so it created a sort of synergy or an energy in the room that makes you feel like you could walk out of the room and conquer the world. He had a gift for that.
N: And those, that inspiration you talk about him providing in motivational speaking at PPL seminars, did he provide that for you on a personal basis?
A: Yes, he counseled me many times on a lot of subjects.
N: Okay. You talk about how you appreciate the ways he's gone out of the way for you. What do you mean by that?
A: Um, do you want examples, you mean?
N: Yeah, if you can give us an example?
A: Well, when he got me to move to Arizona, he put up, he paid for the um, rental, so I put all of my things from Palm Desert, well I had from Big Sur, then I went to Palm Desert to get more things and he paid for the rental to get out there, and I paid him back, but he gave me the money for it and then um, he offered to have me store all my things, all my extra things that I didn't have room for at the house I was renting, he offered to let me store them at his house, um, like my paintings he cleared a space in his office closet, just for them so that they wouldn't be exposed to the elements. Everything else went in the garage. My houseplants, I didn't have room for them where I was so he made a space on his kitchen counter and kept them there for the whole time I lived in Mesa. Other times when we were at a PPL event locally, he would pick up the tab if it was just dinner or something. Um, just little nice gestures that he would do there was the Cinnabon thing that he went out of his way just to get it just for me because he knew I wouldn't be able to get that when I flew into Sky Harbor. I mean there were tons of little things like that that he would do, constantly.
N: Okay, now drawing your attention back to April 18th and that time period of 2008, one of the things you were asked about by Mr. Martinez is your feelings toward Mr. Alexander. So, in that regard, drawing your attention to this time period, did you love Mr. Alexander?
A: Yes
N: Now when you were talking about, when you were asked about that last week, you kind of were saying that you loved him but it was different than it had been in the past. You weren't allowed to explain that, so if you could kind of explain that difference, how you felt about him previously as to how you felt about him April 18th of 2008 as a guidepost.
M: Objection to characterization not allowed to explain
J: Sustained, rephrase your question
N: Could you explain the difference between how you felt about Mr. Alexander when you were dating him as opposed to April 18th of 2008?
A: Um, yes, when we first, I felt like I began to love him early on, but not in love. Basically I love all people so he got that advancement automatically. But then as I got to know him my love for him grew and I wasn't sure where we were going because for about 5 months after meeting we just sort of meandered without being in any kind of official relationship but soon I began to fall in love with him and that was during the time we were dating and I felt pretty intense being in love with him and so when I discovered the things he was doing outside of our relationship, obviously that hurt and we broke up, but I still loved him, the love didn't go away just because the trust did, so we were sort of making an effort to maybe get back together, testing the waters then I kind of realized that he wasn't going to change and then the morning of Havasupai when he sweared at me, I just thought mm, you know like I said I didn't want to continue with someone that could speak to, I didn't want to have children with someone that could speak to their mother that way, I kind of looked at it that way so I still loved him, but I began to pull back from the idea of a future with him and so we remained in a limbo state for awhile and then it became apparent around Christmas time 2007 is when I flew back home and I realized I want to be here, I didn't want to be in Arizona anymore.
N: Let me ask you this and Maybe this is an oversimplification , and forgive me if I do so. Would this early on period be more of a romantic love and the time April 18th of 2008 be more of a platonic love, for lack of a better way of saying it?
A: It's complicated because I felt by that time I felt more in an unconditional love, where I just in terms that I just wanted him to be happy, I wanted him to have a future that was happy, I wanted to have my own future, but I wanted us to be able to remain on good terms. And at the same time we kept confusing out boundaries because we were still sleeping together and doing that, so that kind of kept me, my heart more involved than maybe it should have been.
N: Okay. So on April 18th 2008 then, what you're telling us is that you had an unconditional love for him?
A: That's how I would characterize it
N: Exhibit 485, if I'm correct, was the note you made at his memorial, correct?
A: Yes
N: I know you can't see if all here, let me bring it up for you. That was your note to him, correct?
A: Correct
N: And you have your email or what have you, at least, and you provided that to someone that was organizing that service, is that accurate?
A: Yes
N: Okay. Before we get into the context of this, would it be safe to assume you weren't the only person at this memorial service?
A: Yes
N: Matter of fact, you told us you talked to several people at that memorial service, correct?
A: Yes , I knew all of the people there.
N: You weren't the only person, to your understanding, that thought Travis was a great guy, were you?
A: No, I was not.
N: As to what you wrote, do you remember when his memorial service was?
A: I believe it was on a Sunday or maybe a Monday so it would have been the 15th or 16th of June.
N: Okay, so on the 15th or 16th of June you write that &#8220;Travis, you're beautiful on the inside and out&#8221; did you mean that?
A: Yes
N: And you also say &#8220;you always told me that.&#8221; Did Travis tell you that you were beautiful on the inside and out as well? Is that what you're saying there?
A: Yeah, he said I was more beautiful on the inside
N: And that made you feel good about yourself?
A: Yes
N: You tell him that you never stopped believing in him and I know that you always believed in me. When you say you'd never stop believing in Travis, what were you referring to?
A: Um, his potential and his ability to realize what he wanted to do with his life. And I also believed that he could get better and fix the parts of him that he considered broken or that needed work, like we all have those parts and he was constantly striving to work on himself.
N: You say &#8220;thank you for sharing so much&#8221; um is it fair for me to assume that you're talking about more than storage space for your pictures?
A: Yes
N: What do you mean by that?
A: I just mean the things that he imparted to me, he shared a lot spiritually with me, and his wisdom, his insights, his philosophies, his creeds, all of these things that I sort of adopted a lot of them. And, we went on so many trips, it felt like we lived an entire lifetime in one year, and so I was basically referring to the whole canon of experiences that we had had.
N: And his sharing of his, I think you said philosophical and spiritual self, and beliefs, feelings, that meant a lot to you?
A: Yes, very much
N: You also say that world has been blessed because he, you, referring to Travis, having been here. When you wrote that on June 15th or June 16th of 2008, did you believe that?
A: I did
N: You finish this note to him by saying &#8220;I love you.&#8221; On June 15th or 16th of 2008 did you still feel that same unconditional love, to use your words, for Travis that you were feeling in April of 2008
A: Well, I still had love for him, yes, and I was thinking now more in terms of eternity.
N: Well, that makes sense given the time frame where we're at, but let's maybe take a step back from eternity for a second. Looking at that quote, &#8220;I love you&#8221;, would that be a true statement on June 2, 2008
a: Yes
N: June 3rd 2008?
A: Yes
N: June 4th 2008?
A: Yes
N: How about the days in between June 4th 2008 and his memorial service, would that be true?
A: Yes
N: How about today?
A: Yes
N: Would that be true?
A: Yes, it's still true.
N: We also talked about, you said something, you recall hearing the recorded phone call you had with Mr. Alexander on May 10, 2008, you recall hearing that during this trial?
A: Yes, I do
N: Okay, and something was said on there because, you know, apart from the spiritual side of your relationship and the friendship, close friendship you shared, there was a sexual aspect to your relationship as well, right?
A: Yes
M: And part of that anyway, we've seen in the phone call of May 10th, right?
A: You made a comment in that tape about him making you feel like a goddess, I believe those were your words, do you remember that?
A: Yes
N: Okay, refresh our memory first of all when, what he was doing to make you feel like a goddess, or what that was a reference to.
A: It was a reference to the time when we took a bath together when he had all the candles everywhere and rose petals and there was music and, it wasn't just, it didn't go quickly, it was, it was drawn out, it was romantic.
N: And that made you feel great, right?
A: Yes
N: Were there other times in your relationship, your sexual relationship where it could be said you felt like a goddess?
A: Were there other times?
N: Mm hmm
A: Yes
N: Describe those for us
A: Well, it was more just how, rather than the act, it almost could have been almost any act, but it was how he made me feel and how his demeanor was, and how he treated me during those things that made me feel special. And like it wasn't just for physical gratification, it was because our minds and our hearts were sort of in alignment as well.
N: Is that a feeling that you experienced before in your life, before Mr. Alexander?
A: I would say yes, I'd experienced it before.
N: To this degree?
A: Well, as far as the way he put me on a pedestal, no, not to that degree.
N: And you say he put you on a pedestal, we talked about, we talked a little bit this morning about the bath, the things he did for you, were there other things you felt like we haven't talked about where he put you on this pedestal?
A: It was more like the way he would look at me sometimes, compliments he would give me and sometimes just out of the blue he would recall something that I did, um, or a thought he had that day and it was usually it was in terms of elevating me above all else, kind of thing, and I mean I didn't really believe it but I believed that he might believe it. So it made me feel special because he viewed me that way, that I was somebody special.
A: So in terms of your relationship with Mr. Alexander then there were times when you were way up here on this pedestal, right?
A: Yes
M: And there were other times when you were on the ground being kicked, right?
A: Yes
M: You were and time when he
M: Objection leading
J: Sustained
N: You were all the way up on this pedestal, right?
A: Yes
N: You were also down on the ground, right?
A: Yes
N: Being kicked?
A: Yes
M: Objection, leading
N: Were you kicked when you were on the ground?
A: Once, I was, on one occasion, he kicked me twice.
M: Objection
J: Sustained
N: Okay, so we have a relationship with lots of highs and lots of lows, right?
A: Yes
N: Now, you testified previously that you met Travis in September 2006, you talked about your relationship, your relationship with Mr. Brewer, you talked to us eventually about the time you became a couple with Mr. Alexander and times when you weren't a couple with Mr. Alexander, do you recall doing that?
A: Yes
N: What I want to talk about now because it may not be clear and you were asked about, do you recall being asked about after breaking up why you had permission to be over at his home, that kind of thing, do you remember that?
A: Yes
N: And in that regard, what was difference, first starting say of the interaction of you and Mr. Alexander of, excuse me, when you were a couple by the definitions that you and he had used as opposed to when you weren't a couple by that same definition, was there a difference in terms of how you two interacted with each other?
A: As far as, well, um in my mind I drew a distinction, we still were intimate and hang out and go on dates and travel and talk late and night and email and chat and text back and forth, but I drew a distinction in my mind that he's no longer my boyfriend, I'm no longer his girlfriend, we're just maybe going to get back together, maybe not. We were in a state of limbo for awhile.
N: Let's break that down a little bit if we could. You were having a sexual relationship with Mr. Alexander before you became a couple, correct?
A: Yes
N: And that sexual relationship that included oral sex?
A: Yes
N: Did it concern anal sex before you were a couple?
A: Just the one time the night I was baptized and that ended pretty quickly.
N: Did it include vaginal sex?
A: No
N: So when you became a couple then, did the sexual relationship, did that somehow automatically change the sexual boundaries between the two of you.
A: No, it didn't really change, we tried to keep the same standards
N: The standards being the law of chastity as told to you by Mr. Alexander, right?
M: Objection, leading
N: Are we talking about the law of chastity as told to you by Mr. Alexander?
A: Yes
N: And that standard to your understanding, what did that prohibit, what act did that prohibit?
A: In prohibited premarital vaginal sex.
N: Okay, and, you had told us about the incident where you were sleeping and you woke up with Mr. Alexander's penis inside your vagina, do you remember telling us about that
A: Yes
N: Was he your boyfriend at that time?
A: Yes
N: So you didn't have vaginal intercourse until you were boyfriend and girlfriend, correct? That would have been the first time, so
A: Yeah, but it wasn't regular and I guess I kind of looked at it as an accident or a mistake and we didn't do that again until after we broke up.
N: You say that you saw this first encounter where he was inside your vagina with his penis as an accident or mistake, is that what you were describing?
A: Yes
N: How is it that you can rationalize or characterize this invasion that way?
M: Objection
J: Restate your question
N: He places his penis in your vagina when you were asleep and you just told us you wrote that off as a mistake
A: That's how I looked at it
N: Now I can drop a pen and it would be a mistake but it would be hard to do what he did and have it be a mistake, so how do you get there in you mind?
A: Um, well I don't, we were sleeping and no words were exchanged, he, like all of his motor skills were functioning but I don't know if he was mentally conscious or not, he was there he was breathing hard, that kind of thing but he didn't say anything and it was never mentioned the next day so I assumed maybe he wasn't fully aware of what he was doing because he was groggy or disoriented or still half asleep, I don't know.
N: Okay, getting back to the idea of you and Mr. Alexander as a couple and not a couple, the, you broke up on what day?
A: June 29, 2007
N: As we've heard though, June 29, 2007, was not the end of your sexual relationship, right?
A: That's right
N: So in that regard, what did the end of that relationship mean in terms of your relationship with Travis?
A: It meant to me that we were now to sovereign single adults.
N: A lot of people when they break up, and can you understand a lot of people when they break up that's the end of things, they stop sleeping together, they stop contacting each other ,right?
M: Objection, leading, relevance to other people
J: Sustained
N: After you broke up you said you're words sounded more like intergovernmental relations, you said you were both two sovereign states, right?
M: Objection, leading
N: Is that what I heard
J: Overruled
M: Yes, we were single and free to make our own decisions
N: Okay, single and free to make your own decisions. Yet you were, you, by your testimony were still making the decision to engage in sexual relations with Mr. Alexander correct?
M: Objection, asked and answered, leading
J: Overruled, you may answer
A: Yes
N: You were asked about, well based on your assessment of this break up then, was he, to use your words as a sovereign state, free to engage in sexual activity with whomever he chose in your mind?
A: In my mind, except for the moral implications, I believed that he was free to do that and it would be it should be, it would be something that I shouldn't take offense to because he wasn't my boyfriend any longer.
N: Well, what about other concerns, what about health concerns. Did you feel like he was obligated to let you know if he engaged in sexual behavior with anybody else because of a fear of sexually transmitted diseases?
A: That was one fear I had, yes
N: Did you and he discuss that situation, you were broken up but we're still gonna have sex, but I'm gonna let you know if I start with someone else.
A: There was a conversation somewhat like that, so I assumed he would just tell me if he decided to date someone else, um that's why I asked him when I saw him with that girl, but um, it wasn't as far as STDs and that kind of thing, we didn't have a sit down discussion about it.
N: Okay, and you mentioned the girl, you're talking about when you went to Mr. Alexander's home you saw him with this girl through the window, right?
A: Right
N: And you were asked why it was okay for you to be there after you had broken up, do you recall being asked that?
A: Yes
N: Why was it okay for you to be there?
A: Well the night when I went there it was okay because he gave me the green light, I called him before going and he said sure
M: Objection, hearsay
J: Sustained
N: That night he encouraged you to come over? Is that what you're telling us.
A: He, well he didn't encourage me, he just gave me permission, I needed to get my social security card.
N: Okay, this issue of this discussion you had with Travis about this girl you, were you angry during this discussion?
A: No, I was actually frightened a little bit
N: What do you mean, frightened?
A: I guess frightened isn't the word, but intimidated, I didn't want to be confrontational. I wanted to just throw it out there, let him know it's okay, if you're dating someone you can let me know. I'm gonna be cool about that, but I want to know rather then sticking around where he kept giving me intermittent doses of, incentive to stay and believe in him, you know we can just be friends and draw a line right now and you can have your life and I'll have mine and it's okay. I just wanted to know is all.
N: You made a comment before we get to far off that confrontation. You said you didn't want to be confrontational just a second ago. You also made the comment during your time with last week that you weren't allowed to be confrontational with Travis. What do you mean by that?
A: There were a few times when I asserted myself and he checked it very quickly.
N: Checked it how?
A: Usually by verbally snapping back is how it went.
N: When he snapped back verbally did this cause fear in you?
A: At first I felt more like a chastised child, um, eventually it began to instill fear and intimidation.

 

[minor4th]

Originally posted by ingra1327

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The jury's questions and Jodi's answers- no discussion

Questions 66-79


66): Why is it that you have no memory of stabbing Travis?
A: I can't really explain why my mind did what it did. Maybe because it's too horrible, I really don't know why I blacked out or have memory gaps much of the day.

67): Whether you had plans to commit suicide or not, why even mention no jury will ever convict me mark my words, I am innocent in the interview?
A: I was very confident that no jury would convict because I was going to be dead. As far as saying I was innocent, definitely innocent of my charge is what I meant, and also in the next life, where I believe that God is the ultimate judge that he will understand the circumstances of that day and that it would ultimately that he would be, he would know all the circumstances that happened that day, so in that innocent of the charge, but that there wouldn't be a conviction because you don't convict a dead person, I would be in the grave at that point.

68): In your interviews you gave on T.V., were you forced to answer all of the questions they asked you?
A: I was not physically forced, but when you're put on the spot if kind of feels like it, Like you kind of, but for some reason I felt like I had to answer every question, but I wasn't forced. If that makes sense.

69: You have pictures of your other finger injuries that include time-stamps, do you have any pictures of your finger injury with time-stamps?
A: I guess that would be the left finger? Um I didn't take a specific picture showing the injury, but any picture taken subsequent to June 22nd would show my ring finger bent whether it was like that one in the photo or anywhere else.

70: Do you have any pictures of you wearing a finger splint?
A: no, definitely not

71: Did anyone see you wearing a finger splint?
A: I wore it one day at, when I was working at Mimi's Cafe, but I don't know if anyone commented it on it or not, so it was kind of embarrassing
M: Objection
J: Sustained

72: When did you realize that you had memory loss? The approximate date?
A: Um, if that's a reference to June 4th, um when I'd been pulled over in the car and I began searching around for the water, for the shoes, just trying to clean myself up and that kind of thing, I can attribute it to being maybe, I mean I had memory loss one time when I was 19 because it was alcohol related and one time when I was 15 and it was alcohol related so that's the only other thing I can attribute it to,um just like a black out, so that was when I, shortly thereafter was when I couldn't remember things, certain things, um some things have come back to me since, but just not all of it.

73: Did you have an attorney prior to the interview with CBS
A: Um, not for my case, I had an attorney for the limited purpose of assisting me in my extradition
M: Objection
J: Sustained, yes or no?
A: Of sort of, I guess

74:You said you got the two gas cans so you that you could fill up in Nevada or Utah where gas was cheaper than California. Why did you fill the gas cans up in Pasadena?
A: Yes, that's why I initially got the gas cans from Daryl, so I could save money, that kind of thing. I'm a coupon clipper, that kind of person, but when I got to southern California and realized I'm taking I-I15 across two and a half states, um I've never driving this before, it's the middle of the night, I'm by myself and I'm in a car that I'm not familiar with, I didn't want to be stuck in the dark somewhere in the desert, I've heard lots of horror stories and I wanted to make sure I wasn't stranded.

75)In all of the three hour church sessions, family home evenings, missionary discussions and other church events, you were never told or were never under the impression that other forms of intercourse, oral and anal, were forbidden?
A: I did get that impression on a few occasions and I discussed it with Travis and he clarified it for me in his way
M: Objection, relevance
J: Sustained, is the answer yes
A: Um, somewhat yes, but it wasn't clear

76) Did you know that Travis did not like John Dixon prior to your date with John Dixon?
A: Prior to my first date with him, no I didn't even know, I don't think he even knew John Dixon, maybe had seen him through Prepaid Legal, but prior to that date, no, and I'm talking about before Travis and I became boyfriend/girlfriend as far as the date that occurred after we broke up, I knew that he didn't care for John Dixon

77)Why were you willing to get involved with two men at the same time?
A: Well, I was trying to get, it was very difficult to break away from Travis, I knew we were going in separate directions but we kept continuing with the same habits that we had and I said before that that I'm monogamous and by that I do mean sexually monogamous for sure, never had more than one partner at the same time in that regard, so as far as Ryan, he was just a potential person that I wanted to get to know and if things had gone further then I definitely would have cut off that sort of contact with Travis.

78)When you were asked about the video you made with Travis having sex on June 4, 2008 you said you used your camera but when you were asked about your camera later, you said you didn't take it out of the car that day. Which of these two is true?
A: For clarification, both is true, both are true. The Canon stayed in the vehicle and my Olympus was tiny and was always in my purse. So, and the Olympus the Stylus 500 and it had video on it, the Canon did not.

79)When you realized that you did not connect as expected, why did you continue to speak to Travis?
A: I think that's a reference to Ehrenberg because we weren't connecting the way we had before. Travis and I connected very well over the phone, it seemed like it was more of an emotional and mental connection, a meeting of minds so to speak, and I was not going to contact him again after three failed attempts over the weekend and then I didn't hear from him. So when he called me Tuesday, and left me a very sweet voice mail, it kinda was a feeling of relief like oh, okay, I wasn't just being used, he still cares, so I called back and he was somewhat remorseful that we had gone that long without talking and we agreed to not do that again. Going that long without communication.

 

[minor4th]

Originally posted by ingra1327


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The jury's questions and Jodi's answers- no discussion

Questions 80-89


80) What is your understanding of the word ?
A: I don't know an official definition, but it's a very negative, pejorative, derogative term against women

81) Why did you share housing with Matt at the time you were in a relationship with Travis?
A: Well, the reason I moved to Big Sur, Matt was the available housing in Big Sur
M: Objection
J: Overruled, you may continue
A: Okay the reason I felt comfortable living with Matt is because at that point in time, this was I want to say, seven years after we had broken up, our friendship had evolved to a point where we were more like a brother sister kind of a relationship, there was no attraction, zero, we didn't even hug, we were just friends, and we were more like siblings and I think Travis understood that
M: Objection
J: Sustained

82) Were there any girls working with you that you could share a room with?
A: At Ventana? No, there were no

83) How can you be a sister to Matt, someone you had sex with in the past?
A: It does sound strange, but that's just the way our friendship evolved after the breakup, I got over what he did with Bianca and that resentment melted away and gave way to just a genuine goodwill toward him and him toward me. Also, um, our time in Ventana was broken up because at one point, I think I mentioned on direct that the restaurant and Ventana closed and the entire dining operation moved over to the Inn and we operated out of there during that five week period the restaurant was being remodeled and Matt moved Vail, CO, I didn't see him for six, seven, eight months. He had another relationship at the time and by the time he moved back , Daryl and I had started a relationship and at first it was sort of awkward but then Matt and I realized we just jive in a certain way but we're just better off friends than girlfriend/boyfriend and that was a place where we reached an acceptance and there was no longer an attraction to Matt, in more I think I was blinded by love and now I saw all his other qualities, I still liked him as a person but I was not attracted to him, if that makes sense.

84) Why didn't you read the Book of Mormon to see what you were and were not allowed to do?
A: I did read the Book of Mormon, um there is additional doctrine that explains the commandments a lot more called the Doctrine and Covenants and the Book of Mormon covers a lot of the basics, it's very similar to the Bible in some of those things, like the Beatitudes are sort of reworded in some in one portion of it. Um, I think the ten commandments are sort of reworded in some portion of it, but it's more the Doctrine and Covenants that go into detail and also subsequent presidencies the church has gone through have clarified even more what certain commandments mean, what that really entails. Such as the Word of Wisdom, when the Doctrine and Covenants was written in the 1800s, it doesn't say anything about coffee, tea, alcohol or illegal drugs. It mentions hot drinks, tobacco and more clarification was given in the 20th Century, so it's kind of like that. I did real the Book of Mormon, but it's not ultra specific.

85) Why did you as Travis about everything you did?
A: I don't understand that question
J: Alright, then we'll move on to the next one

86) Why did you start a relationship with Ryan Burns when you said earlier when I'm with one guy I don't see other guys.
A: Well, I didn't consider myself Travis's girlfriend since I broke up with him on June 29th of the previous year, also I moved over 1,000 miles to get away from him. Even though it was hard to break up so to speak, we were broken up but we still continued some of the same patterns we had, I was still attempting to move on, maybe not making the best attempt, but when somebody introduced us through text message we began to call and just sort of hit it off. We were just talking friends and it was only potential thing, so I didn't consider myself seeing Ryan or seeing Travis but Travis was still the person that I was most intimate with.

87) Why is it you can't remember when Travis lent you money but you remember the exact amount that you lent him all three times?
A: I do remember times he lent me money, um, I think I got, went into a few of those times and one of the reasons I specifically remember amounts that he lent me is because it's documented in my journal and I've since reread that journal several times.

88) Why did you think that the incident that happened on June 4, 2008 was any different from the ones before so that you had to kill him to protect yourself?
A: June 4, 2008 was different in that even though I thought that he would never get that way again because, it just, like I think he scared himself when I passed out based on our subsequent conversations and we realized how far it went. I thought that it was done at that point as far as violence goes, so when it happened again and I realized how far it could escalate when he gets that angry, um, I was terrified this time. Especially because he was trying to get on top of me and also he just kept coming. He didn't stop, even when I tried to stop him by running away or pointing a weapon on him, he kept coming and kept coming and just did not stop.

89) You mentioned injuries that would not have been seen by others when you were in Utah in June of 2008. Can you go into deal as to where they were and how you received them?
A: Yes, my ankles were bleeding, um, not profusely, but they were scratched and they were injured. I had socks and shoes on. Also when I hit the tile the back of my head right here, slammed on the tile, um, and I do have, my shoulder's never been the same but I don't know if it's related to being slammed on the tile, um it's off, is all I can say, it hurts constantly, actually.

 

[minor4th]

Originally posted by ingra1327


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The jury's questions and Jodi's answers- no discussion

Juror Questions 90-109


90)When you injured yourself at Casa Ramos rotating the glasses, did your supervisor have you fill out any forms to document the injury for worker's compensation purposes?
A: No, this was a small business operation, they didn't have formalities like forms, that kind of thing, just what was minimally required as far as being a legally documented worker. It was less formal, this wasn't a corporate kind of setting where those kind of formalities were done.

91)Who was the main factor in your decision to move from Big Sur/Palm Desert to Mesa. Travis or Rachel?
A: It was Travis, ultimately

92) You testified that you thought you heard his footsteps. If you weren't sure, why didn't you just run downstairs and out the door?
A: It was all a split second decision, but like I said when I got toward the carpet area, that's where he caught my wrist before when I began running down that hallway on a previous occasion and so here I am running away from him down the hallway again. On the previous occasion my intention was to run out of the room and I didn't make it out of the room. So this time rather than try to this time open a door and run out of the room, this closet door was open and I knew there was another exit so I just ran into that as quickly as I could.

93) Why would you take the time to delete the photos off the camera after you killed Travis?
A: That would go with all the other things that I did that day. When things happened, I don't have memory of it, specific memory of it at all. But I mean I could
M: Objection
J: Sustained

94) You stated you remember dropping the knife and hearing it hit the tile. What happened to the knife after that?
A: I don't recall what specifically happened after that I just know it didn't go with me in the car
M: Objection, speculation
J: Sustained

95) If your phone had died while at Travis', why not use a wall charger so you would have it charged before you got on the road?
A: That was a thought of mine, but Travis did not have a wall charger that had a plug that fit my type of phone so I was not able to charge it there.

96) In your email to Travis after June 4 of 2008, you told him you would sleep in his bed while he was in Cancun. Did you ever stay over night without him there?
A: Yes, when I was pet-sitting Napoleon, I did that.

97) How is it that you were so calm on the television interviews?
A: I wanted to, I tried very hard to present the best image I could and I had had a lot of prior experiences, experience of pretending that everything was okay when it wasn't. That everything on the surface was okay, when really it wasn't. I was accustomed to that and also I wanted to portray that, that I'm confident and I'm okay, I can do this. No worries. That's what I really wanted to get across at that time. And then I wanted to kill myself so that I would never have to own up to it.

98) You stated in the 48 hours interview that Travis' family deserved to know the truth. If you really believed that why didn't you confess then?
A: That was not entirely true in that I didn't want them to know certain truths and again I said that because it's a derivative of my attempt to deny that I had anything to do with it.

99) if Travis wanted the phone sex conversations recorded why didn't he record them?*
A: His phone did not have that capability, neither did mine until I bought the Helio, or Gus bought me the Helio. I discovered that feature and we joked back and forth about it and then I began to record them when we decided we would do that, his phone didn't have recording capability.

100)If you didn't want to be tied up to a tree, why would you go up and look for a place where he could do that?
A: It wasn't being tied to the tree that I was looking for, we were looking for a place, out in the woods, nature to somehow carry out this Little Red Riding Hood fantasy and my understanding of that is that it would involve sex, but he had many other ideas, as you heard on the tape, it didn't necessarily mean that I was going to go for all those. I was kind of pushing my own limits anyway by going out to the woods to find a spot and that was the focus for that fantasy, but not necessarily getting tied to a tree.

101) If you dropped the camera on the bathmat, how is it that it rolled all the way in front of the bathtub.
A: On the diagram it looks very far, but it's really a distance of this. You have the shower, there's a very thin wall and then the bathtub begins here. So wherever I was standing here it didn't have to roll. It just bounced off the mat, it's not way down by the bathroom area, but it's right near the bathtub at that point. There's only a difference of about this much between the shower and the bathtub.

102) On the phone sex tape when Travis was talking about photos and taking video. Was that all part of his fantasy?
A: Taking photo and video, yes that was a fantasy that he hoped to realize.

103) Did you ever voice any concern to Travis about being uncomfortable with some of his sexual fantasies?
A: Yes, there was one fantasy that he wanted to do which was pulling off the side of a freeway exit and having sex on the hood of a car. And I told him that that would be impossible. I couldn't even think of an exit in rural northern California where that would be accomplished and nobody would see us. So that and I was a little uncomfortable with the mile-high that he wanted to do because the flight attendants tent to monitor who's going and coming from the bathroom and they don't allow two people at once. So it's just those two that I recall.

104) Why didn't you call Ryan and tell him you were going to Arizona when you decided you were going to Arizona?
A: I guess I didn't want Ryan to know that I still had the interest that I had in Travis. Just like I didn't want Travis to know that, but for different reasons that I was interested in Ryan. I felt like how would it sound if I called up this guy that I'm gonna go to meet, hey I'm gonna hang out with my ex-boyfriend for a little while, sorry, you know, I didn't feel comfortable, or like that was something that I would have done is say let him know that I'm gonna go hang out with my ex and then I'll swing by and meet you or something. It was a bad decision, but I've made of bad decisions when it came to Travis.

105) You have testified to many different occasions where you preformed sexual favors with Travis to keep him pleased and happy. Are you saying that you never got pleasure from sex with Travis?
A: Definitely not, I did. Many occasions he was very romantic, very loving, I guess you could say attentive and he cared about my pleasure as well, not always, um, but there were times when he was, when we were very compatible in that regard

106)Why would you continue to carry your journals around with you if it was possible others, including Travis, might find them and read them?
A: To my knowledge no one else read my journals and then once I discovered Travis had, I was a little more guarded about it, but I kept my journal inside my purse and my purse zipped up and I nobody really went through my purse, so I considered it safe in my purse because nobody got into my purse except me typically.

107)Why were the Laws of Attraction so important to follow but the Law of Chastity was not?
A: I believed that I was following the Law of Chastity for a long time. I realize now that I was not. The Law of Attraction was also a huge philosophy of mine. It was, it was my second religion pretty much. Also, with the Law of Chastity and what it prohibits, there is a great deal of temptation and even though we eventually did begin to, at least as I understood it, openly violate the law of chastity, it was kind of like, I don't know, it's hard to describe. I think it was temptation, it was weakness, it was not that I didn't believe in the Law of Chastity, but when it came to Travis, that was more important.

108) Do the Laws of Attraction also apply to recording phone sex conversations?
A: the Law of Attraction, I guess it could be construed that way in that when we were doing those things I got positive, I had positive interaction with Travis, he wasn't angry, he was complementary, he was saying things that were in a complementary way, he would be nice to me, so it was the attention that I craved and the Law of Attraction does state that you focus more on the qualities of the person that you like and don't focus on the things you don't like. So when were doing those things we were both focused on each other, maybe not in a spiritually positive way, but in a way that made me feel good and him as well.

109) You stated there were times that Travis made you tear out pages of negative things that you said about him. Right before that you said you wouldn't right negative things about Travis in your journal. Which is correct?
A: They're both correct. The entry that he made me tear out was very detailed and a lot more, I was quoting him directly on a couple things he said, um, and when he discovered those he made me and my feelings so I used to right things to purge. When he admonished me and reminded me of The Secret, um, at that point I wrote less specific things. Sometimes I would just write about my emotions and sometimes those were negative but writing about suicidal thoughts for example helped me process it and getting it down on paper helped it get out of me I felt like. So when it came to Travis I would be less specific. Like I would write &#8220;today, Travis was obscenely mean to me&#8221; I wouldn't go into detail about what that meant. I just remembered that was a really bad day so I would write something to that effect.

Afternoon recess.

 

[minor4th]

Originally posted by ingra1327

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The jury's questions and Jodi's answers- no discussion

Juror Questions 110-124


110) Can we see other examples of when you called me that you did not have romantic interests in Hottie Biscottie? Are there text messages, emails, or instant messages?
A: Probably, well none that I've seen that have been recovered but there would be some in text messages, I texted Daryl a lot, I texted my little brother.
M: Objection
J: Approach, please
Did you call any men you did not have romantic interest in hottie biscotti in text messages, emails, or instant messages?
A: Yes, in text messages, not the other
J: In text messages?
A: Yes

111) If you were not going to marry Travis because of the Jan 21, 2008 and Jan 22, 2008 events, why stay with him at all?
A: It was difficult to stay away from him it was difficult to break away from him and when he would invite me over it was very hard to stay no. He was persuasive and he still had an effect on me that when I came over when he was in a good mood it made me feel good and I enjoyed being with him during those times. And that's something I was familiar with

112) Do you feel the guys in your life cheated on you because you were controlling?
A: I feel it was just the opposite. I feel they cheated on me because I was too tolerant. I was very trusting, implicitly trusting and very naive. I gave them the freedom to do what they wanted when they wanted and I think they took advantage of that.

113) Were you mad at Travis when you were stabbing him?
A: I don't recall fear being a prominent, I mean sorry, I don't recall angry being a prominent
M: Objection, she said she can't remember if she does remember she should tell us
A: I remember the emotions, Judge
J: Alright, the question is were you mad at Travis while you were stabbing him?
A: I don't remember being angry that way, I remember being terrified
M: Objection
J: I'm going to sustain the objection, I think you've answered the question

114) How is it that you remember so many of your sexual encounters including your ex-boyfriends, but you do not remember stabbing Travis and dragging his body?
A: Well as far as what happened on June 4th, I don't know how the mind works necessarily, but I know that was the most traumatic experience of my life and outside of those blanks and the ones that I've mentioned as being alcohol related when I was a teenager, I don't have other blackouts that I can call when memories get foggy when I get stressful. I think actually that I have a very good memory. I can remember tons of things, but when I'm under a stressful situation it's like my mind, if you can imagine a computer that freezes, it's turned on but it's not functioning you can hit the keys, nothings happenings. Just like the sound waves are hitting my ears but the brain is not computing, it's kind of like that. So I don't blackout during those time but my mind is not processing the English words that are being said to me, or screamed at me, or whichever.

115) During cross examination, you were asked if you were crying when you stabbed Travis and you said no. How do you know that if you had a memory gap at that time.
A: I think that was misunderstood, I said I don't know and I know that I was crying when I said that and maybe I didn't speak up clearly enough but I said I don't know, not no.

116) You stated you bought a gun to commit suicide, but never ended up doing it. What stopped you from doing so?
A: I was going to wait until I left Yreka and got to Selenas or Monterey area so that it didn't happen right in my families own backyard so to speak and I was leaving for that area the morning I was arrested actually

117) You stated you would not want kids with Travis because you would be worried about them. If that is the case, why did you tell Leslie you couldn't wait until your kids and Travis's kids could play together at future PPL events?
A: Um, I wanted Travis to be viewed in a positive light and I know that he wanted to be viewed in a positive light. I didn't want to de-edify him, especially at the moment when I made those statements. And also, prior to June 4th, that was a hope of mine. It wasn't that I couldn't wait, it's just that sometimes PPL events would be family oriented and I would hope that our families would be able to be cordial and kind, not that we would ultimately be very close, but that was a hope that someday we could be happy for each other in our respective marriages and I didn't want to say anything bad about him.

118) A lot of your answers to the questions you were asked made it seem like you put Travis's feelings and priorities before your own. If that were true why didn't you call for help after you shot Travis?
A: Usually his priorities went before mine when it was something that he wanted. When the gun went off, I didn't know that I had shot him, I thought it hit a wall. So as far as not calling 911, immediately after it was not an option. He lunged at me and we fell and wrestled for a quick second before I broke away. And then as far as not calling 911, like I said I can't explain my state of mind immediately following, it was basically fear based as far as not calling any authority, telling any authority at all.

119) Why did you decide to tell the truth 2 years after the killing?
A: It took two years um because I was very deeply ashamed of what had happened, I used to consider people who were violent in any form, somewhat unevolved, that's how I looked at it, and now I was that kind of person to a very extreme degree and I was horrified with myself and very ashamed. And it wasn't the kind of person I was trying to portray to the world, as well as who I believed I ever could be inside or out. However as time went on and I evolved and I matured and gained more perspective as things get farther away. There were a lot of people that reached out to me and offered support because they believed in my stupid story and I felt very bad for that because they were there for me and they wanted to offer moral support and I felt fraudulent the more, the farther things got. At first it was like, yeah, okay I'm gonna be dead soon so I don't have to answer that and then it started off as a secret I wanted to take to the grave with me and then it became one that I didn&#8217;t want to keep anymore. It wasn't an overnight decision, it was a very gradual and it just, and it just I felt fraudulent, you start just feeling, I mean obviously I did from the beginning but it becomes a really yucky feeling inside, it doesn't feel good.

120) What made you change your mind and tell everyone about Travis's secret: the child picture?
A: Well, the first time I decided to was when I was talking to a psychologist from California and we were exploring the dynamics of our relationship. And it took me a long time but several months beyond that I told other people. It became, I had made a promise to him that I would never say anything. He made a promise the he would get help. I wanted to keep my promise. I didn't want to throw mud on him, he was it's not like he was a threat that anything was gonna happen to any children at this point why even go there, why tell anyone, but it was such a huge part of our relationship and that everything thereafter changed, everything. So When I realized in retrospect I don't even think he upheld his end of the bargain, I felt less obligated to keep that secret and also it changed everything in our relationship and leaving that element out, it's like a huge missing piece of the puzzle of how things ultimately evolved the way they did.

121) You said you were sick to your stomach when you saw Travis with child pictures, so why did you sleep with him again?
A: Well, after throwing up a few times that day, I wanted to talk to him and give him a chance to explain what was going on and so we ended up getting together later on after FHE, much later in the evening and he gave me a tearful explanation and I felt more sympathetic toward him than disgusted at that point because of how he explained it to me.

122) Would you classify your relationship with Travis Alexander as a love-hate relationship?
A: It certainly had all the emotions of a love-hate relationship, but I never felt that I hated Travis. I screamed it out one time when he wasn't present after a really mean phone call, but I never felt hatred toward Travis although we had those ups and downs that were pretty extreme.

123) On June 4 2008 after you got up and ran toward the closet is it possible that Travis picked up the camera on the bathroom floor and moved it?
A: Yeah and to clarify I didn't run toward the closet, I ran down the hall right after I rolled away from him, and that's completely possible and that's an idea I've entertained also, but I didn't see anything. I just kinda didn't look back.

124)Could that also explain the delay in his arrival and his anger at the closet door threshold?
A: Would that be the camera related
J: Yes
A: It certainly could, the delay, maybe the floor was wet and I don't know if it was just the traction of him getting down the hallway, I don't know, but the camera, I don't even remember how the camera ended up where it did so I don't know if he picked it up and inspected it or how it got kicked around or if it got kicked around, that kind of thing.