jodi Arias TAKES THE STAND #51 *may contain graphic and adult content*

[minor4th]

Thank you for all that. Do you have a link for the phone call time lengths? Or a trial day?



That right there is enough to refute her. She said it was still light out when it happened, and she says she didn't return his calls for a while after it happened. Sunset was at 5:49 PM that day.

Those are not the length of the phone calls, it is the time between calls.

 

[beldon]

I have always found it hard to believe that JA would have shot TA in the head in order to “finish him off”.
I believe JA went to Mesa to kill TA and she carried a gun and a knife or knives with her.

JA had to choose a time to kill TA; that is, she was waiting for an opportunity.
One candidate would have been tying up TA during sex.
JA sagaciously thought about “offing him “ in the shower. So JA dressed packed and got her weapons in place ie into pants pockets and then posed as the “shower photographer”. She lured him into a vulnerable position while in the shower.

Diversion=
TA was physically larger more agile than JA. TA was athletic – a wrestler. So a direct attack at him would likely have been problematic and uncertain. If JA had attacked TA and failed the entire enterprise would have ended in a disaster.

If JA had access to both a gun and a knife why in the world would she use a knife to initiate an attack on a victim that was both larger and stronger than she was?? Even with the element of surprise an opening knife thrust to the chest or body would have been very very RISKY.

It makes NO sense.

Given a choice of weapons you merely pull out a gun and shoot TA in the head FIRST. With this lethal wound, normally you would be done with it and the murder completed inside the shower stall. Unfortunately JA did not aim correctly and did not kill him with the first shot. The head shot did not render him unconscious.
(I maintain the shell casing was disturbed and moved from its initial resting place during the ensuing melee)


IMPROBABLILITY OF SHOOT LAST

JA successfully plunges a knife into TA chest and back over 20 times. Then because TA still would not die JA straddles him; pulls his neck up and slices his throat open with a single stroke from TA left to right.
He exsanguinates over a minute or so.
The scene is horrendously bloody. The effort needed to kill him was vastly underestimated. TA 185 lbs body is lying bloodied in the bedroom. JA needs to pick up the corpse by the shoulders and drag him some 5 yards back into the bathroom. This scenario has complicated her clean kill and escape fantasy.

JA manages to get the corpse back into the bathroom. WHY, oh, WHY would you take out a gun to finish him off – since he was already very much dead? JA ‘s interests were to kill him and quickly get on the road towards SLC.

Makes NO SENSE.

JA hands and fingers were saturated with slippery blood. Why take out a gun, it, and shoot with slippery hands??? By this time JA was certainly in a state of panic. She had a bloody mess to attend to PLUS she had to insure that there was NOTHING implicating her or “putting JA at the crime scene”. Why do something gratuitous devoid of any value?

I am among the 'shot first' holdouts too - for the reasons pointed out above and also because of this photo (ill link the addy instead of showing it)

http://thepotpapers.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/ja47_zpsda0f592d.jpg?w=523&h=294

This picture was snapped before the 'dropped' accidental photo. He is not sitting, or posing, or casually allowing her to continue taking a picture of him in this uncomfortable/unflattering pose. Next pic - the camera is dropped either because she was so surprised when she realized he wasnt dead, or because he lunged at her.

 

[A_News_Junkie]

Lol... I just want the time to shows is Katie was on... I look and then I have to stop and work and I go back and I feel like I'm looking at the same stuff over and over again but I never find anything!

Our Katie is the one whose name is NOT Katie!
Dr. Drew Jurors 2/04/2013 - YouTube

Also, our Anita is here:
Feb 21 Dr. Drew Jurors segment - YouTube

So far, that is all I know of for our members, but I think the other Katie might be joining WS too, per posts of Katiecoolady. Katiecoolady - you still doing NG? Any date yet?

Katiecool, Anita and anyone who is gonna be a guest - let me know and I will record and upload ONLY if you ask me to. I don't want to put someone on youtube for eternity who would really rather not be!

Edit - I read typo fairly well (as I am a pro in it!), but if you meant the date - those are on the videos for the air date too!

 

[katydid23]

What I find fascinating about the questions of whether or not someone of his stature would have been able to fend off the knife attacks brought by someone smaller than him is that people are only taking into account the physicality of TA vs JA. They aren't taking into account how SHOCKING it would be to have someone stabbing you, repeatedly. It's not as if she was going to pause in between each stab and give him a chance to get the upper hand. He could have been stabbed 5 or 6 times before he really started comprehend what was happening and, clearly, by then it would have been too late. So, no, I don't think that she had to have had help to do any of this. Adrenaline is a powerful thing.

I am also going with the ME on him being shot after he was dead unless there are some examples of people being shot in the head (while still alive) and not experiencing the trauma the ME has described one would expect to see. JA wouldn't know the truth if it came up and stabbed HER in the heart, so I just don't believe her version of the events - at all. jmo

ETA: One more thing--- I know many say that she shot him at the end because she thought he was still alive, personally, I think she just wanted to use the gun. I mean, she went through the trouble of staging a break in, in order to get it. Plus, it was kind of like her way of putting the cherry on top. Again, JMO.

I agree about the 'shock' angle. He looks very scared and confused in that closeup of his face. Seconds later she is stabbing him.

Oh and :welcome: to WS. Great post.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

I'm a "disbeliever" in the "he was shot first" theory.

Before slitting Travis' right jugular vein and right carotid artery, Travis only had one potentially lethal stab wound. This was the deeper stab to his right chest causing a hemothorax (created a hole in his lung which begin to fill with blood).

Did Horn say that? His report says no induration, hemorraghe, or scarring in the lungs.

Once Jodi penetrated his right lung, Travis began to experience an extreme shortage of air and he began coughing profusely. He was no longer able to successfully defend himself.

As Travis was gasping for breath and coughing up blood everywhere, Jodi stabbed him repeatedly, but she only penetrated muscle (the autopsy stated the wounds were not greater than 1.5 inches depth).

As Travis crawled down the hall, Jodi mounted him and slit his throat. This would not have immediately killed Travis though. He would have continued to gurgle and sputter for air until his circulatory system failed. This could have taken a few minutes. Jodi pulled Travis back into the shower where Travis gurgled and gasped until Jodi shot him in the head.

He was shot in the right temple, so I don't think she shot him in the shower. She would have had to turn the body around afterward.

 

[Pensfan]

Did Horn say that? His report says no induration, hemorraghe, or scarring in the lungs.



He was shot in the right temple, so I don't think she shot him in the shower. She would have had to turn the body around afterward.

The autopsy says "right hemothorax".

 

[manzana]

So he's naked, cornered in a shower stall.....SITTING! She surprises him by thrusting a knife almost 5 inches into his chest causing a wound that alone would have killed him in minutes....

What exactly do you feel he should have been doing?




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Me, I would have been a naked fighting MF, no way would I be compliant to sit down (That's almost like getting in the car), yeah he made mistakes that cost him his life if Jodi was the one and only person there.

He was a motivational speaker, he could have talked his way to a vantage point.

Before everyone gets mad at me, I do think she had help and a partner in crime, otherwise it makes Travis out to be wimpy and not able to handle himself which I do not think was the case.

 

[megmono]

Every time I wonder about how she cleaned up after this slaughter, I keep going back to her testimony where she enlightened us about the "sex" they had in the office and he "told" her to go clean up after he &@#* on her back (her lower back). I thought there might be something sinister behind that ... although now that we know she is the murderer, what would be the reason for a cover-up. I wish I was smarter. I just don't know why she had to disclose that in her testimony .... "he told her to go clean up in the downstairs bathroom" .... but then again - it is hard to get into a "sick" person's mind and understand "their" logic.

Oh and BTW ... this makes me feel a little weird, but where do I find those creepy NUDE photos of Arias ... they sound pretty graphic and weird ... just want to have a "peek" .... so to speak ... Eeeeew!!

I was thinking the same thing about showering by the office. Wasn't it the same trip ? How far is that bathroom from the laundry room?

 

[LambChop]

Lots of REAL LIVE attorneys are concerned about this very thing - not jurors being "dumber than dirt", but that it was not as easy to follow as some were hoping.
Zeno49 is not alone in this thought - it is not a black and white issue - it is a matter of opinion.
I'd wager there are some on this very forum that agree with Zeno 49, and have not voiced their opinion because of responses like this.

The jury has to follow the judge's instructions. The State has already proven premeditation. It's as clear as glass. Just a matter of whether or not this was self defense. It's clear she intended to see him and took steps to cover her tracks. So what are the chances Travis attacked her walking out of the shower with wet feet on a very wet tile floor because we can see the shower door was open. Jodi admitted water was splashing out from the shower (standing back far enough not want to get the camera wet). Ceramic tile is slippery when it's wet and not something you want to run on, or tackle someone either. Her story is full of holes. jmo

 

[carnnell]

I have always found it hard to believe that JA would have shot TA in the head in order to “finish him off”.
I believe JA went to Mesa to kill TA and she carried a gun and a knife or knives with her.

JA had to choose a time to kill TA; that is, she was waiting for an opportunity.
One candidate would have been tying up TA during sex.
JA sagaciously thought about “offing him “ in the shower. So JA dressed packed and got her weapons in place ie into pants pockets and then posed as the “shower photographer”. She lured him into a vulnerable position while in the shower.

Diversion=
TA was physically larger more agile than JA. TA was athletic – a wrestler. So a direct attack at him would likely have been problematic and uncertain. If JA had attacked TA and failed the entire enterprise would have ended in a disaster.

If JA had access to both a gun and a knife why in the world would she use a knife to initiate an attack on a victim that was both larger and stronger than she was?? Even with the element of surprise an opening knife thrust to the chest or body would have been very very RISKY.

It makes NO sense.

Given a choice of weapons you merely pull out a gun and shoot TA in the head FIRST. With this lethal wound, normally you would be done with it and the murder completed inside the shower stall. Unfortunately JA did not aim correctly and did not kill him with the first shot. The head shot did not render him unconscious.
(I maintain the shell casing was disturbed and moved from its initial resting place during the ensuing melee)


IMPROBABLILITY OF SHOOT LAST

JA successfully plunges a knife into TA chest and back over 20 times. Then because TA still would not die JA straddles him; pulls his neck up and slices his throat open with a single stroke from TA left to right.
He exsanguinates over a minute or so.
The scene is horrendously bloody. The effort needed to kill him was vastly underestimated. TA 185 lbs body is lying bloodied in the bedroom. JA needs to pick up the corpse by the shoulders and drag him some 5 yards back into the bathroom. This scenario has complicated her clean kill and escape fantasy.

JA manages to get the corpse back into the bathroom. WHY, oh, WHY would you take out a gun to finish him off – since he was already very much dead? JA ‘s interests were to kill him and quickly get on the road towards SLC.

Makes NO SENSE.

JA hands and fingers were saturated with slippery blood. Why take out a gun, it, and shoot with slippery hands??? By this time JA was certainly in a state of panic. She had a bloody mess to attend to PLUS she had to insure that there was NOTHING implicating her or “putting JA at the crime scene”. Why do something gratuitous devoid of any value?

Beautifully said! Unfortunately there is no sense in the throws of an insane situation. I do believe this max. insanity. Jodi's best weapon against a big man was the element of surprise and her premeditation to carry her "Plan" to kill him. Travis was clueless.

One can not apply rationality to total irrationality. One will drive one crazy.

IMHO

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

If JA had access to both a gun and a knife why in the world would she use a knife to initiate an attack on a victim that was both larger and stronger than she was?? Even with the element of surprise an opening knife thrust to the chest or body would have been very very RISKY.

It makes NO sense.

Did she only have one bullet? Did the gun jam? Why wouldn't she just shoot him some more? When did she have time to go get the knife once the gun didn't work? How does this happen in the small space of time the attack took place? How do you explain the lack of blood/swelling, etc, of the brain that the ME testifies to? I am always open to differing opinions, but I am confused by why you think she would turn to knives once the gun didn't work, instead of continuing with the gun. :waitasec:

 

[Boodles]

Then again, how we know she even showered in TA's bathroom ? She had that case of Costco water in the trunk and could have washed up in the desert or possibly showered in one of the other bathrooms in the house.

The problem with her showering at TAs house, is that her hair would be in the drain traps and elsewhere, ESP if she showered standing over him. They only found hair on the floor AFAIK. it would be bold, but maybe she used the hose and cleaned up in the side yard -it was a fenced in yard

http://s193.beta.photobucket.com/us...ravis Alexander/IMG_2071.jpg.html?sort=3&o=91

Ohhhhh, wait, I keep forgetting she had no pubic hair, so she could have showered with her hair contained by a hat, plastic bag, whatever. And she also could have washed her hair with bottled water or with the hose outside.

 

[Sustained]

IMO it wasn't to finish him off. It was part of staging the crime to make it appear more than one person was involved.

Possible, but then why didn't she wear gloves to negate the palm print evidence or bring two pairs of different size shoes to track blood around the bathroom ?

Ask yourself, why both a gun and a knife?

IMO, the knife would have been backup in case the gun failed.

In her first interview she was talking up how strong Travis was...

Exactly the reason you would shoot first ...

 

[Linda7NJ]

As I recall JA claimed she threw the gun into a dumpster located somewhere in St George UT.???????

The imaginary rope, gun desert


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[Pensfan]

Me, I would have been a naked fighting MF, no way would I be compliant to sit down (That's almost like getting in the car), yeah he made mistakes that cost him his life if Jodi was the one and only person there.

He was a motivational speaker, he could have talked his way to a vantage point.

Before everyone gets mad at me, I do think she had help and a partner in crime, otherwise it makes Travis out to be wimpy and not able to handle himself which I do not think was the case.

One of Jodi's stab wounds was not superficial and made it through his pectoral muscle and ribs. This stab punctured his right lung. Once this happened, Travis was unable to fight a knife-wielding woman. He was too busy coughing up blood, gasping for air, and experiencing excruciating pain.

 

[Cat Lover]

Hi everyone,

I just got into this trial a few weeks ago. I never even heard of Jodi or this crime before then. There are so many threads here that I cannot possibly read them all. Anyway, I feel confident it was not self defense as JA claims.

Since I don't know a lot about this case, her interviews, etc., I just have theories from the last couple of weeks about her and the case from watching Jane Velez Mitchell, Nancy Grace and Dr. Drew so I haven't even seen or heard anything about what she has told police much. Here are my views and theories about it.

1. She brought the gun to TA's herself. Wasn't there a gun reported stolen from one of her family members? She used one of TA's knives to stab him.
2. She was in love with him but he didn't love her and she couldn't let him go. Hence, the tire slashing, hacking his emails, etc.
3. Her testimony is half truth, half lies or more lies, less truth. She seems to just enhance testimony to try and make it appear somewhat truthful. What happened to just yes or no answers? I understand you may need to explain a few things but she goes overboard.
4. Who the heck has such a good memory like her on the stand about something that happened four years ago. For example, do you remember what store your water was bought at that long ago like she did?
5. If you are defending yourself, do you really stab someone that many times? If you have a knife, you may stab more than once because you are scared but then don't you try to get away? Also, who slits someone's throat in self defense and then shoots them. That is not self defense in my opinion. I understand your adrenaline may be pumping but seriously!
6. Their relationship was a Fifty Shades of Grey type thing but maybe not as extreme (of course, I haven't read the whole book). She liked the relationship; you obviously see and hear that from the texts and the phone conversation she taped. Her testimony about her not wanting to make him upset so she went along with it is just BS.
7. No way was TA a pedophile. There was no child on his computer. She claims she caught him with a half naked picture of a boy. Wouldn't the boy have been naked if he was into child ? Also, why would he be looking at this picture with her around. Those kind of people try to keep their secret hidden, don't they?

By the way, did anyone else think the prosecutor was a little disorganized last Friday when he was cross examining JA? She held her own pretty good though. Also, he was tough. Don't get me wrong, he should be but I hope he doesn't turn off the jurors.

Until next time..... :twocents:

 

[seguek9]

It looked to me as if he was grabbing the knife. Are you saying she stabbed him in the hands and that's how he got the cuts? Sorry if my questions seem sill/stupid. I've been trying to catch up but it's so much information in such a small space of time.

He was more than likely using his hands to protect himself *against* the knife--survival mode.

Anyone in that situation would try to block an attack. In legal/forensic speak that's why they are called 'defensive wounds'. HTH and :welcome:

 

[Linda7NJ]

Possible, but then why didn't she wear gloves to negate the palm print evidence or bring two pairs of different size shoes to track blood around the bathroom ?


IMO, the knife would have been backup in case the gun failed.


Exactly the reason you would shoot first ...

Because she stupid! Have you been listening to her lie? She's not exactly the brightest bulb in the box.


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[thefragile7393]

Lots of REAL LIVE attorneys are concerned about this very thing - not jurors being "dumber than dirt", but that it was not as easy to follow as some were hoping.
Zeno49 is not alone in this thought - it is not a black and white issue - it is a matter of opinion.
I'd wager there are some on this very forum that agree with Zeno 49, and have not voiced their opinion because of responses like this.

If any of them have experience in cross examining a socio/Psychopath I'd be interested in other attorney's opinions. If they don't have that experience then their opinions are meaningless. Sociopath/Psychopath people are NOT normal and they can't even be treated like a normal person because they don't respond like a normal person. They don't even respond like a person with insanity. It takes a whole different technique and I daresay since most defendents don't testify there isn't a lot of experience with lawyers trying to deal with these people on the stand. Juan has had that experience. I trust he knows what he's doing...even if we don't see it. He is open to criticism and differing opinions...but it seems a bit pointless in some respects because he is going through waters unchartered by most lawyers on either side.
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[kscornfed]

Possible, but then why didn't she wear gloves to negate the palm print evidence or bring two pairs of different size shoes to track blood around the bathroom ?


IMO, the knife would have been backup in case the gun failed.


Exactly the reason you would shoot first ...

i said earlier if she used some latex gloves, they cut very easily. they end up shredded on your hand once they're cut so they're worthless. she MAY have worn gloves. but she cut that left hand stabbling him and they ripped.