jodi Arias TAKES THE STAND #51 *may contain graphic and adult content*

[Smelly Squirrel]

Read the definition for a hemothorax. If you mean "Did the lung blow up"? No.

It's blood in the pleural cavity. The blood can come from sources other than the lung.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/2047916-overview

 

[kaRN]

Her finger was probably injured at some time, but it wasn't broken, it was only sprained. I've done that multiple times to various fingers, and they are still bent today. It depends on the exact injury on how well you can use the hand afterward or whether you need a splint. It wouldn't turn black and blue, but it would be swollen for some time.

I'm not convinced the injury necessarily happened on 6/4, but I am convinced it didn't happen on 1/22.

If it was 'broken', like she states it was, it would have been swollen and bruised and she would have needed a splint to protect it. (16 years of ER Nursing standing firm behind my answer regarding a fracture) She didn't get 'professional medical' help as she put it however so???? It may have been sprained. She also may be able to contort her ring finger while the others remain flat and her only ring finger pain is related to the fact there's no ring on her finger. This is Jodi we're talking about.LOL!

 

[SmoothOperator]

I have always found it hard to believe that JA would have shot TA in the head in order to “finish him off”.
I believe JA went to Mesa to kill TA and she carried a gun and a knife or knives with her.

JA had to choose a time to kill TA; that is, she was waiting for an opportunity.
One candidate would have been tying up TA during sex.
JA sagaciously thought about “offing him “ in the shower. So JA dressed packed and got her weapons in place ie into pants pockets and then posed as the “shower photographer”. She lured him into a vulnerable position while in the shower.

Diversion=
TA was physically larger more agile than JA. TA was athletic – a wrestler. So a direct attack at him would likely have been problematic and uncertain. If JA had attacked TA and failed the entire enterprise would have ended in a disaster.

If JA had access to both a gun and a knife why in the world would she use a knife to initiate an attack on a victim that was both larger and stronger than she was?? Even with the element of surprise an opening knife thrust to the chest or body would have been very very RISKY.

It makes NO sense.

Given a choice of weapons you merely pull out a gun and shoot TA in the head FIRST. With this lethal wound, normally you would be done with it and the murder completed inside the shower stall. Unfortunately JA did not aim correctly and did not kill him with the first shot. The head shot did not render him unconscious.
(I maintain the shell casing was disturbed and moved from its initial resting place during the ensuing melee)


IMPROBABLILITY OF SHOOT LAST

JA successfully plunges a knife into TA chest and back over 20 times. Then because TA still would not die JA straddles him; pulls his neck up and slices his throat open with a single stroke from TA left to right.
He exsanguinates over a minute or so.
The scene is horrendously bloody. The effort needed to kill him was vastly underestimated. TA 185 lbs body is lying bloodied in the bedroom. JA needs to pick up the corpse by the shoulders and drag him some 5 yards back into the bathroom. This scenario has complicated her clean kill and escape fantasy.

JA manages to get the corpse back into the bathroom. WHY, oh, WHY would you take out a gun to finish him off – since he was already very much dead? JA ‘s interests were to kill him and quickly get on the road towards SLC.

Makes NO SENSE.

JA hands and fingers were saturated with slippery blood. Why take out a gun, it, and shoot with slippery hands??? By this time JA was certainly in a state of panic. She had a bloody mess to attend to PLUS she had to insure that there was NOTHING implicating her or “putting JA at the crime scene”. Why do something gratuitous devoid of any value?

Because she is not like us.. she does not think like us..what is nonsensical to you or I makes perfect sense and is purposefully intentional to her..

MOO is that the gunshot was last.. IMO I really have no doubt WRT this issue.. IMO in her plotting her killing him she came to a point that the gunshot would not be a sufficient way for her to kill him.. think about it, if she had intended on using the gun to kill him why would she have even brought the knife?...IMO the reason is clear in that she made a decision that she wanted to kill him in one of the most up close and personal ways possible..IMO she wanted to feel the exhilaration of plunging that knife into his heart..

The gun was brought for exactly the purpose that she used it for..as a back up to ensure he was dead if for some reason the knife was not successful.. and in her mind after all of the stabbing and slicing Travis was still not dead yet.. tho, IMO I find it very possible that he was in fact dead when she put that bullet in his head and what she took as his not being dead was merely his body still reacting to the vicious stab wounds(air from the lungs, neck, etc)... therefor she shot him to ensure she completed her "task"...

IMO if she had set her mind to shooting him as her means of murdering him the knife would have never been brought to the scene...IMO it just would not.. whereas with her intending on murdering him in the extremely personal, hands on way of stabbing him then IMO she would bring the gun, which she'd already stolen and had in her position, to have to be able to use if necessary..

IMO think about it, if Jodi had shot him in the head first, then IMO she would have quite, very simply shot him again when she saw that the first shot wasn't successful..if that was her planned mode of killing him as you say due to her wanting it to be quick and her on her way..well...then why in the hell would she then turn around and begin to use the not as reliable and quick method of stabbing??...IMO she would not have..she would have simply shot him again sticking with the mode for which she planned to murder him..

But with her being intent on stabbing him to death and then she found that even after the overkill, vicious rage of stabbing and slicing he still was not dead..she used the gun to ensure, without doubt that she had killed him..

jmo but for me there is truly no doubt WRT the issue of the gunshot being last..the simple biology of the body IMO proves it was last in that there was no bruising, swelling, and very little, if any blood due to the fact that he was already dead or very, very near being dead when that bullet was shot into his head..

all jmo, tho.

 

[thefragile7393]

I necer even thought of the macho man angle, Travis should've been tougher!:banghead:

Until they or someone they are very close to meet up with such situations you will get comments like:
Someone's in such and such a situation, so they should have done xyz.
Truly mentally ill people should get the death penalty because they did xyz and it shows what they were doing at the time a crime was committed.
If someone had only done xyz then they would be alive.
If I am going through xyz then I would do xyz.

Ignorance is bliss....let them remain there and hope and pray they never have to get out of the black and white world.

 

[popsicle]

WAIT JUST A MINUTE!!!!!

It was PLACED somewhere??? In her lady bits?


I missed that day of testimony and just assumed they ate the candy!

:floorlaugh:

 

[Sustained]

I agree with your account after he was injured in the chest.

HOWEVER====
Try to simulate the following!!!

Put a person/ proxy victim into a small shower stall. Have the person sit in a crouched position. The victim is facing forward, TA right shoulder presented to the bystander. JA if standing is looking DOWN on TA. If JA is crouched she looks horizontally at TA.

Then simulate what you think JA did at this juncture.
JA had a camera in one hand. JA was LEFT HANDED. We assume she was standing. It would have been very difficult for JA to deliver effective knife thrusts while she was in a sitting or crouched position.

If the attacker begins a knife attack on a person sitting in the shower stall assume the attack is with the RIGHT HAND - the trajectory of the wounds are downward!!!!
JA chest wounds WERE NOT DOWNWARD AT ALL.
Indeed the trajectory of all his chest wounds were horizontal if not slightly UPWARD.!!! (Correct me if I am wrong on this account)

Now try to attack the sitting victim with your LEFT HAND.
This attack is awkward at best. To get energy enough to penetrate the anterior chest with a LEFT HANDED approach the arm has to cocked/ flexed at the elbow and the thrust is delivered by the FOREARM - NOT the entire arm. This awkward thrust could easily be blocked by TA. This thrust would carry very little kinetic energy. AND STILL such a wound even if landed would have a DOWNWARD trajectory.


QUESTIONS FOR THE STAB FIRST THEORISTS:

IF JA stabbed TA first AND TA was in the shower stall EXPLAIN the forensic evidence!!!!

How could JA deliver lethal blows to TA anterior as well as lower anterior chest with her LEFT HAND and while she is standing crouching or whatever at the shower stall edge???

How could such wounds be HORIZONTAL AND AIMED SLIGHTLY DOWNWARD???

Great post if one assumes TA was attacked while sitting in the shower ...

 

[kscornfed]

No one knows what they would ACTUALLY do in a situation of that extreme violent situation. No one!!! We may say "we would do this or that!" However, when it comes down to the reality of the situation, we do not know unless we actually are in that situation.

Travis wasn't a wimp! He was a crime victim slaughtered by a raged woman.

some of us have experienced that kind of fear. for me, it was paralyzing---i couldn't move, i couldn't believe what was happening, and i couldn't have screamed if i'd tried. it's one thing to talk about this here on this board when we're safe, but that kind of fear does things to you that you'd never anticipate.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I cannot for the life of me imagine a twenty something year old woman calling her daddy to cry to him about seeing her love interest kissing another woman. Looks like she never progressed past jr. high mentally. :what: I have noticed other things that have shown that she was very immature in so many ways.

If her lips are moving she's lying. IMO


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[TexMex]

WAIT JUST A MINUTE!!!!!

It was PLACED somewhere??? In her lady bits?


I missed that day of testimony and just assumed they ate the candy!

Sorry SuperT

Is this a bad time to tell you about the Pop Rocks?

:truce:

 

[popsicle]

It's blood in the pleural cavity. The blood can come from sources other than the lung.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/2047916-overview

The vena cava was nicked when she stabbed him in the heart.

 

[MsCharlieChan]

I am among the 'shot first' holdouts too - for the reasons pointed out above and also because of this photo (ill link the addy instead of showing it)

http://thepotpapers.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/ja47_zpsda0f592d.jpg?w=523&h=294

This picture was snapped before the 'dropped' accidental photo. He is not sitting, or posing, or casually allowing her to continue taking a picture of him in this uncomfortable/unflattering pose. Next pic - the camera is dropped either because she was so surprised when she realized he wasnt dead, or because he lunged at her.

I'm totally of the same mindset: he was shot first. After following the Casey Anthony trial, it's apparent that medical examiners can vastly disagree on cause/manner of death. We only heard from one ME in JA's trial.

We also know that people make it to the phone, hospital, etc. with a bullet wound to the head all the time. Doesn't seem like this one penetrated TA's brain to even 1/4 of the extent that it could have...

TA sitting in the position (see photo) seems to reflect exactly how the bullet traveled through his head, with JA standing above, outside the shower. Easy to see how she shot downward. The bullet entered from above him on his right side, moving downward toward his left.

She thought he would die or be immobilized right then and there, but it didn't happen how she envisioned it. (Nothing does, despite her believe in "The Secret" and a mighty detailed "vision board.")

TA was still moving -- either trying to tackle and stop her, or trying to get the heck away.

Maybe the gun did jam -- like she said it did on the Ninjas. He started scrambling toward the bathroom while she switched to the knife.

The throat-slitting? I think that was a final act: her sick "blood atonement" move, making him pay for his sins.

 

[Linda7NJ]

WAIT JUST A MINUTE!!!!!

It was PLACED somewhere??? In her lady bits?


I missed that day of testimony and just assumed they ate the candy!

Rofl! See what ya miss? Lol


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[InTheGarden]

I understand that, follow along for a second. We know that from the pics and time stamps that there was at least a couple of minutes from when she started taking pics to when he was actually sitting in shower alive. Highly doubtful she is holding a knife on him, so she has the gun trained on him...gunshot would come first...but there are at least two minutes to talk his way out...For God's sake, even if he had to lie and tell Jodi everything she wanted to hear, being compliant verbally, I can not see how he could not talk his way out.

The last two photos of a living Travis speaks volumes to me.

The one where he is looking directly into the camera shouts to me total disgust and being fed up.

The other photo where he sitting in the shower with his arms on his legs and his head down shows me he is absolutely closed to any interaction with JA and just wants her out of his bathroom, home, and life.

It may have been at this moment he told her to permanently remove herself and that he was absolutely and completely through with her and never wanted to hear or see her again.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

No one knows what they would ACTUALLY do in a situation of that extreme violent situation. No one!!! We may say "we would do this or that!" However, when it comes down to the reality of the situation, we do not know unless we actually are in that situation.

Travis wasn't a wimp! He was a crime victim slaughtered by a raged woman.

BBM

Thank you for the reality check!

He had a psycho with a 6 in. knife blade that was so sharp it nearly decapitated him. He would have been a fool to try and rush into a weapon he knew could kill him. He was already seriously injured with a stab to the heart. All he could do is try to block some of the stabs and try to get away from the murderous b*tch.:furious:

When someone brings a knife and a gun to a fight and the other person has no weapons at all..........they are going to die a horrible death ........just like Travis did.

IMO

 

[SuperTmo]

Snap out of it. LOL This is Jodi speaking. She never mentions this in her journal, nor in the phone conversation. Only the bubblebath is mentioned on the tape. He wouldn't kiss her after her giving him oral sex so what do we think. She probably made it up. jmo

She's so weird. What a gross thing to think up!

 

[WhoaIsMe]

Hi all, new here. 1st post.

I think that it had to be obvious to the jury that she was dancing around that issue, and talking in circles. You can't say that someone was expecting you because, sometime in the past, you discussed visiting without firming up a date. She wanted to paint the picture that she wasn't just dropping by out of the blue like some crazystalkerlady, while still claiming that he was engaging in illicit "masterbatorial conduct," (thanks JM, for the new phrase) so she had to also make it seem that he wasn't expecting her at just that moment, but still expecting her in general. Exhausted yet? In short, it sounds ridiculous because it is ridiculous.

Even if we pushed aside how this all lacks logic, Travis doesn't remotely fit the profile of a pedophile. Those two things make her come across as the liar that she is and if you can't believe her on one thing (especially something this significant) you can't believe her on anything, imo.

Going by her crazy lie, she left and then he just starts doing pedo stuff....right away? I mean, wth? somebody just leaves your house and you just jump right into that? It's ridiculous and make no sense. She must think the jury is packed with morons.

 

[Callisto]

Me, I would have been a naked fighting MF, no way would I be compliant to sit down (That's almost like getting in the car), yeah he made mistakes that cost him his life if Jodi was the one and only person there.

He was a motivational speaker, he could have talked his way to a vantage point.

Before everyone gets mad at me, I do think she had help and a partner in crime, otherwise it makes Travis out to be wimpy and not able to handle himself which I do not think was the case.

You may think you wouldn't be compliant, but many people I'm sure who were compliant swore they never would have gone along with X,Y,Z, but when confronted with a threat to your life, the frantic mind doesn't always let you do what the composed mind normally would do. I'm not saying YOU would not be able to override the stress of impending doom, but for the majority of people I believe run on autopilot in these situation. Some people freeze when their life is being threatened. It isn't weakness or stupidity or anything like that. I firmly believe that in these circumstances, many people lose their entire ability to think rationally. He only had what seems like a few seconds between the last shower pictures and the attack, it wasn't like she waited and threatened him for several minutes before starting the attack. Unless you had mental preparation and training on how to think quickly and clearly when your psycho ex-love confronts you in the shower with a weapon, a few seconds is not enough time to devise a way to escape from the corner you are backed into! The timestamps clearly show there is only a few minutes total from the last picture to the dragging.
I don't think an unarmed, naked male being stabbed to death by a female with a 5+ inch knife is a case of wimpiness or not handling oneself!
I did a quick Google search of cases of a woman lethally stabbing a man and came across many examples:
http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/...d-to-death-during-family-fight-181591461.html
http://www.wcnc.com/news/crime/Police-Woman-fatally-stabs-man-during-fight-190665261.html
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/0...bing-groom-death-wedding-day-na-cola-franklin
http://www.live5news.com/story/19660655/deputies-woman-stabs-man-to-death-during-dice-game

MOO!

 

[Softail]

WAIT JUST A MINUTE!!!!!

It was PLACED somewhere??? In her lady bits?


I missed that day of testimony and just assumed they ate the candy!

Not sure that I would call her bits lady like in any way!

 

[Linda7NJ]

Snap out of it. LOL This is Jodi speaking. She never mentions this in her journal, nor in the phone conversation. Only the bubblebath is mentioned on the tape. He wouldn't kiss her after her giving him oral sex so what do we think. She probably made it up. jmo

In fairness... I did have to google "tossed salad" after his phone sex comment....

Shiver.....


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[popsicle]

If Travis was shot first while sitting.... it is instinctual to lift your hands up and cover your face/ head while moving away/turning away from the bullet being fired at you. None of these things were done. jmo