Sidebar Camera's stop recording until 51:32
M: Now stand up and go to left. Show me the posture of Mr. Alexander immediately before he rushed you according to you.
A: I was
M: No, no, just show me, that's what I'm asking you to do, not talk, show me, c'mon, show me the linebacker pose
A: He got down and
M: Well show me the linebacker pose that what I'm asking for you to do.
A: He went like that and he turned his head and he grabbed my waist.
M: Just like that, correct?
A: pretty much
M: And he grabbed your waist, right?
A: I can't say it's just like that but it's how I remember it.
M: Well no, I want it without talking ,just show me the pose
A: He got down like that
M: Alright, go ahead and have a seat maam. And now you said that this happened right about here correct?
A: I don't know, it was somewhere in the center of the bathroom.
M: Right so how is it ma'am that if you are shooting him and that's the first thing that happened, then how is it that the shell-casing, exhibit 111 then landed in blood?
N: Objection, calls for speculation
J: Overruled
A: It didn't land in blood
M: You see exhibit 111, right?
A: Yes
M: That's the casing that was involved in this case isn't it?
A: Yes
M: There was a casing that was ejected, wasn't it?
A: Yes
M: And when you say this happened there wasn't any blood on the floor, correct?
A: Yes
M: This was the first, if you will, blow, correct?
A: Yes
M: And this is how the casing land it, do you see it?
A: That's not how it landed from the blow
M: Ma'am, you do see the casing there, don't you
A: Yes
M: After he came at you ma'am and that happened, did you go down?
A: We both went down
M: You went down on your back, right?
A: Yes, I went on my back
M: Did you strike your head?
A: Um, I don't recall striking my head that time.
M: So the answer is no, you don't remember striking your head.
N: Objection, asked and answered.
J: Overruled
A: No, I don't think I did, but I don't know.
M: And was he one top of you? How was it?
A: He landed to the side of me and was grabbing at my clothes
M: okay so he landed to which side of you, the right or the left?
A: The right
M: Okay he landed to the right and now he's got this gunshot where?
A: I didn't know he had a gunshot
M: I'm not asking you if you knew he had a gunshot, we know he did. I'm asking you after he has this gunshot, what is he doing?
A: He's very pissed off and he's trying to grab me
M: And he's speaking to you, right?
A: He's screaming obscenities at me
M: What's he saying? What's he saying to you after he was shot, tell me what he's saying?
A: I don't remember the words
M: You can't remember a single word that he's screaming at you afterward?
A: No, I don't
M: And he's screaming this loudly, screaming but he's doing it loudly correct?
A: Yes
M: And he is to your left or to your right?
A: my right
M: So he's toward the tub, correct
A: He would be on that side but not near the tub
M: But it would be on that side, correct?
A: Yes that's correct
M: And you're saying he wasn't bleeding at that time.
A: I'm not saying that, I don't think you've asked me anything about that.
M: I'm asking you right now, are you saying he was bleeding?
A: No, Im not saying that
M: so he was bleeding at the time, correct?
A: I don't remember seeing any blood at that moment
M: When he's down there, you don't see any blood, right?
A: No
M: So at that point there can be no blood in the bathroom, we can agree on that, right?
A: No, I don't agree with that
M: There was blood somewhere in the bathroom, immediately after you shot him, other than around him?
A: I don't know
M: Well you were there, right?
A: Yes
M: You said that you ran in this direction when he was chasing you did you happen to see the blood over on the left side when you were running in that direction?
A: There was no blood there when I was running in that direction?
M: And was there any blood down here when you ran down the first time?
A: No
M: How about any blood where it says number 5, it's right here.
A: no
M: So there was no blood when you shot him then, right?
A: Um, not at the moment the gun went off.
M: How about immediately after he was struck was there any blood?
A: I don't remember
M: Weren't you looking at him or anything?
A: Um, I wasn't examining him or anything
M: Weren't you looking at him right after the gun went off?
A: I think I closed my eyes really tight. I've never seen him. I just remember getting hit really hard and we fell
M: So you remember going down but you don't remember looking at his face or anything like that.
A: not at that point
M: well according to you you don't know if he's been shot, isn't he still a threat?
A: Definitely
M: right and you're not trying to get away at that point, right?
A: I was
M: Well, no, you said your eyes were closed and you were just laying there, didn't you just say that?
A: No, I closed my eyes I think as the gun began to go off.
M: You opened them up at some point, right?
A: yes
M: did you open them up when he was lying right next to you on your right hand side?
A: I believe I did
M: and so then you see him bleeding, right?
A: I never looked at him.
M: So you never looked at him but he's cursing at you, though, right?
A: Yes
M: He's cursing at you like before, right?
A: Maybe not the same words but he was cursing at me.
M: He was cursing at you which you say precipitated this killing, right?
A: um, yeah
M: and so then you say that you're down on the ground and he's still cursing, whatever the words may be, right?
A: Yes
M: And you're not looking at him now, right?
A: no
M: You're not rolling away from him at this point, right?
A: I'm attempting to get away from him
M: With your eyes closed right?
A: No
M: your eyes are open now, right?
A: I believe they are open, yea.
M: And you aren't looking at the source of the danger, right?
A: no
M: You're not
A: No
M: why not? If you were looking at him before and this person was threatening you, why aren't you looking at what the source is? So that you can try to get away again.
A: I don't need to because I already knew what he was doing at that point,
M: What
A: I didn't need to because I already knew what he was doing at that point.
M: you already knew what he was doing at that point.
A: Yes
M: You knew he was cursing, right?
A: Yes
M: you knew he was right next to you, right?
A: Yes
M: You knew he was grabbing at you, right?
A: yes
M: And so you just kept your eyes closed and you don't even know where youre going to go?
A: I believe I said my eyes weren't closed at this point
M: Okay so you're eyes are closed for how long?
A: I don't know I just blinked hard.
M: So then you do open your eyes, right?
A: Yes
M: Then do you see blood
A: Id dont remember seeing blood
M: so you don't see blood at that point, right?
A: no
M: and he's still not dead, right?
A: definitely not dead and he's very angry
M: He's very angry and this is seconds afterward, right?
A: yes
M: Is he on all fours now?
A: Um, he's on the side of my grabbing at my clothes and grabbing me.
M: So he's at your right side grabbing at you, right?
A: Yes
M: Is he punching you?
A: no
M: Is he hitting you?
A: no
M: is he doing anything else?
A: He's just, it seemed like he was trying to get control of me and I was pushing him away.
M: throughout this whole thing where you are having this confrontation with him do you ever tell him to stop, or tell him to do anything?
A: I think I screamed stop when I pointed the gun at him
M: and when he's next to you on the right hand side did you say anything to him?
A: I don't remember
M: are you saying that you're having a hard time remembering things that are happening now that you've shot him?
A: yes
M: so it appears then that your memory gets faulty immediately upon shooting him.
A: yeah, things get very foggy from there.
M: That's immediately, the shot takes him down and then creates a fog for you, is that what you're saying?
A: It begins creating a fog.
M: But you weren't struck by the shot, were you?
A: no
M: In fact, you don't have really injuries as a result of killing him do you, other than the one to your left ring finger, do you?
A: That's the only visible injury
M: Pardon
A: That's the only visible injury
M: I'm talking about visible injuries, right that's the only visible injury you have to your left ring finger, even though according to you he slammed you down, right when he got out of the shower and then he slammed you down again when he was coming at you and you had to pull the gun, according to you, right?
A: yes
M: And he's also grabbing at you while you're on the ground and he's not being gentle about it right?
A: That's correct
M: no bruising no anything, other than just the thing the injury to the left ring-finger, right?
A: I don't know if my skull was bruised
M: Pardon
A: I don't know if my skull was bruised
M: Aside from that , but uh, did you get medical care for that?
A: no
M: Did you seek medical care for your finger?
A: No I did not,not professional
M: well you do have an injury to that left ring-finger don't you?
A: yes
M: And so when you arrive out in West Jordan Utah and you see Mr. Burns, you do have an injury to your left finger, correct?
A: We're talking about two different injuries. No
M: Well ma'am you just told me when we were talking about this killing that you injured your left ring-finger, do you remember just telling me now, just no, no more than two minutes ago.
A: Yes I was referring to this injury (holds up left hand)
M: Ma'am were we really talking about this particular injury at that time?
A: I didn't know
M: Oh , you don't know we were talking about the killing at that time?
A: you talked about injury to my left finger.
M: Ma'am what have we been talking about this whole afternoon?
N: Objection, argumentative
J: Overruled
A: June 4th
M: Pardon
A: June 4th
M: Right, we haven't mentioned any other day , right?
A: Not to my recollection.
M: You've been here throughout these proceedings and you've been asking, or you've been answering questions, right?
A: Yes
M: And as we were talking about it just now, I asked you isn't it true that the only injury as a result of this incident was this injury to the left ring-finger and you said yes, do you remember saying that?
A: I might have, but that's not what I meant
M: well ma'am you did say it didn't you
A: I don't know
M: And in fact, I followed it up by saying and you didn't seek medical care, do you remember me asking that?
A: I thought you meant about my skull
M: No, do you remember me asking you that
A: Yes
M: And do you remember you said well, not professional medical care, do you remember that?
A: I'm referring to the splint Travis made for me.
M: I know that that's what you're telling me now, but the line of questioning before involved the shooting, that's what we were talking about, right?
A: Yes, but then you went to my left finger
M: Mr. Alexander was dead after that, wasn't he?
A: Not immediately after that,
M: No, he grabbed the knife that you stabbed him with, didn't he, so he wasn't dead immediately after that, right?
N: Objection, calls for speculation she said she doesn't remember
J: Restate the question
M: And we're talking about Mr. Alexander an individual you just shot, right? So it's not like we're talking about him providing any medical care for you, are we?
A: that's right
M: You're the person that's come in here at least we know that you've indicated that you did kill Mr. Alexander , correct?
A: Yes
M: the only incident where this could have happened was on June 4th, 2008, right?
A: Yes
M: So this issue of him providing a splint or splinting your finger really doesn't have anything to do with June 4th of 2008, does it?
A: No
M: And you did say that the only injury you received was to your left ring-finger on June 4, 2008, remember that?
A: I didn't say that
M: well, yes you did and in fact you used the word physical injuries do you remember that/
N: Objection, argumentative, she said she didn't say that
J: Sustained
M: And you also indicated well I may have had some injuries to my head, do you remember that?
A: yes
M: Those were the only injuries that you sustained on June 4, 2008, remember I asked you about that and you said yes
A: that's not how I understood your question
M: so then he's down ma'am and he's to your right What happens now?
A: I break away from him and he screams out ****ing kill you *****
M: So then even though you've already shot him, he's been grabbing at you, he does say I'll ****ing kill you, *****, right?
A: I don't think he said I'll, those words are in my head. He may have said that maybe not , I just heard ****ing kill you *****.
M: Okay what are the words let's hear the words one more time so we can get them right?
A: I heard him say ****ing kill you *****
M: Aren't these the same words that you indicated that you heard when he was doing his pirouette outside the shower, ****ing kill you *****, aren't they the same words?
A: I don't think they were the same, he was still screaming at me coming after me.
M: Just so we're clear, what did he say as he's getting out of the shower?
A: As he was getting out of the shower he called me a ****ing idiot and said a ****ing 5 year old could hold the camera better than you
M: and then when he's down after being shot he says ****ing kill you, right?
A: After I broke away from him, right after, he screamed out when he couldn't grab me any more.
M: He's trying to grab you and he's still on the floor but you're able to get away, right?
A: Yes
M: I thought you said that he was this really, remember when you had the conversation with Det. Flores and you told him he was a really strong guy, a wrestler in high school, do you remember saying that?
A: Yes
M: You're saying you're able to get away from this man who was a wrestler in high school who's very strong, that's what you're saying, right?
A: Yes
M: And then what did you do?
A: I don't remember, I don't remember anything at that point so I would be speculating
M: so you don't remember a single, solitary thing after that, right?
A: there are a few little pieces that have come back sense but not immediately after, I don't remember.
M: Okay, well what are the pieces that have come back. Tell me about what you remember about this. Whatever pieces you remember.
A: um, at one point I remember dropping the knife and screaming
M: But that's something that's come to you since, right
A: Since, yes
M: You don't remember.. alright what else?
A: um, the others are more vague so I'm not sure
M: If they're vague, we don't want to hear them. Where were you standing when you had this recollection about dropping the knife and screaming
A: I don't remember the exact position but I was in the bathroom because it hit the tile.
M: Ma'am that's all that you remember with regard to this particular event, correct?
A: from that point to that point yes
Sidebar, afternoon recess
M: Now stand up and go to left. Show me the posture of Mr. Alexander immediately before he rushed you according to you.
A: I was
M: No, no, just show me, that's what I'm asking you to do, not talk, show me, c'mon, show me the linebacker pose
A: He got down and
M: Well show me the linebacker pose that what I'm asking for you to do.
A: He went like that and he turned his head and he grabbed my waist.
M: Just like that, correct?
A: pretty much
M: And he grabbed your waist, right?
A: I can't say it's just like that but it's how I remember it.
M: Well no, I want it without talking ,just show me the pose
A: He got down like that
M: Alright, go ahead and have a seat maam. And now you said that this happened right about here correct?
A: I don't know, it was somewhere in the center of the bathroom.
M: Right so how is it ma'am that if you are shooting him and that's the first thing that happened, then how is it that the shell-casing, exhibit 111 then landed in blood?
N: Objection, calls for speculation
J: Overruled
A: It didn't land in blood
M: You see exhibit 111, right?
A: Yes
M: That's the casing that was involved in this case isn't it?
A: Yes
M: There was a casing that was ejected, wasn't it?
A: Yes
M: And when you say this happened there wasn't any blood on the floor, correct?
A: Yes
M: This was the first, if you will, blow, correct?
A: Yes
M: And this is how the casing land it, do you see it?
A: That's not how it landed from the blow
M: Ma'am, you do see the casing there, don't you
A: Yes
M: After he came at you ma'am and that happened, did you go down?
A: We both went down
M: You went down on your back, right?
A: Yes, I went on my back
M: Did you strike your head?
A: Um, I don't recall striking my head that time.
M: So the answer is no, you don't remember striking your head.
N: Objection, asked and answered.
J: Overruled
A: No, I don't think I did, but I don't know.
M: And was he one top of you? How was it?
A: He landed to the side of me and was grabbing at my clothes
M: okay so he landed to which side of you, the right or the left?
A: The right
M: Okay he landed to the right and now he's got this gunshot where?
A: I didn't know he had a gunshot
M: I'm not asking you if you knew he had a gunshot, we know he did. I'm asking you after he has this gunshot, what is he doing?
A: He's very pissed off and he's trying to grab me
M: And he's speaking to you, right?
A: He's screaming obscenities at me
M: What's he saying? What's he saying to you after he was shot, tell me what he's saying?
A: I don't remember the words
M: You can't remember a single word that he's screaming at you afterward?
A: No, I don't
M: And he's screaming this loudly, screaming but he's doing it loudly correct?
A: Yes
M: And he is to your left or to your right?
A: my right
M: So he's toward the tub, correct
A: He would be on that side but not near the tub
M: But it would be on that side, correct?
A: Yes that's correct
M: And you're saying he wasn't bleeding at that time.
A: I'm not saying that, I don't think you've asked me anything about that.
M: I'm asking you right now, are you saying he was bleeding?
A: No, Im not saying that
M: so he was bleeding at the time, correct?
A: I don't remember seeing any blood at that moment
M: When he's down there, you don't see any blood, right?
A: No
M: So at that point there can be no blood in the bathroom, we can agree on that, right?
A: No, I don't agree with that
M: There was blood somewhere in the bathroom, immediately after you shot him, other than around him?
A: I don't know
M: Well you were there, right?
A: Yes
M: You said that you ran in this direction when he was chasing you did you happen to see the blood over on the left side when you were running in that direction?
A: There was no blood there when I was running in that direction?
M: And was there any blood down here when you ran down the first time?
A: No
M: How about any blood where it says number 5, it's right here.
A: no
M: So there was no blood when you shot him then, right?
A: Um, not at the moment the gun went off.
M: How about immediately after he was struck was there any blood?
A: I don't remember
M: Weren't you looking at him or anything?
A: Um, I wasn't examining him or anything
M: Weren't you looking at him right after the gun went off?
A: I think I closed my eyes really tight. I've never seen him. I just remember getting hit really hard and we fell
M: So you remember going down but you don't remember looking at his face or anything like that.
A: not at that point
M: well according to you you don't know if he's been shot, isn't he still a threat?
A: Definitely
M: right and you're not trying to get away at that point, right?
A: I was
M: Well, no, you said your eyes were closed and you were just laying there, didn't you just say that?
A: No, I closed my eyes I think as the gun began to go off.
M: You opened them up at some point, right?
A: yes
M: did you open them up when he was lying right next to you on your right hand side?
A: I believe I did
M: and so then you see him bleeding, right?
A: I never looked at him.
M: So you never looked at him but he's cursing at you, though, right?
A: Yes
M: He's cursing at you like before, right?
A: Maybe not the same words but he was cursing at me.
M: He was cursing at you which you say precipitated this killing, right?
A: um, yeah
M: and so then you say that you're down on the ground and he's still cursing, whatever the words may be, right?
A: Yes
M: And you're not looking at him now, right?
A: no
M: You're not rolling away from him at this point, right?
A: I'm attempting to get away from him
M: With your eyes closed right?
A: No
M: your eyes are open now, right?
A: I believe they are open, yea.
M: And you aren't looking at the source of the danger, right?
A: no
M: You're not
A: No
M: why not? If you were looking at him before and this person was threatening you, why aren't you looking at what the source is? So that you can try to get away again.
A: I don't need to because I already knew what he was doing at that point,
M: What
A: I didn't need to because I already knew what he was doing at that point.
M: you already knew what he was doing at that point.
A: Yes
M: You knew he was cursing, right?
A: Yes
M: you knew he was right next to you, right?
A: Yes
M: You knew he was grabbing at you, right?
A: yes
M: And so you just kept your eyes closed and you don't even know where youre going to go?
A: I believe I said my eyes weren't closed at this point
M: Okay so you're eyes are closed for how long?
A: I don't know I just blinked hard.
M: So then you do open your eyes, right?
A: Yes
M: Then do you see blood
A: Id dont remember seeing blood
M: so you don't see blood at that point, right?
A: no
M: and he's still not dead, right?
A: definitely not dead and he's very angry
M: He's very angry and this is seconds afterward, right?
A: yes
M: Is he on all fours now?
A: Um, he's on the side of my grabbing at my clothes and grabbing me.
M: So he's at your right side grabbing at you, right?
A: Yes
M: Is he punching you?
A: no
M: Is he hitting you?
A: no
M: is he doing anything else?
A: He's just, it seemed like he was trying to get control of me and I was pushing him away.
M: throughout this whole thing where you are having this confrontation with him do you ever tell him to stop, or tell him to do anything?
A: I think I screamed stop when I pointed the gun at him
M: and when he's next to you on the right hand side did you say anything to him?
A: I don't remember
M: are you saying that you're having a hard time remembering things that are happening now that you've shot him?
A: yes
M: so it appears then that your memory gets faulty immediately upon shooting him.
A: yeah, things get very foggy from there.
M: That's immediately, the shot takes him down and then creates a fog for you, is that what you're saying?
A: It begins creating a fog.
M: But you weren't struck by the shot, were you?
A: no
M: In fact, you don't have really injuries as a result of killing him do you, other than the one to your left ring finger, do you?
A: That's the only visible injury
M: Pardon
A: That's the only visible injury
M: I'm talking about visible injuries, right that's the only visible injury you have to your left ring finger, even though according to you he slammed you down, right when he got out of the shower and then he slammed you down again when he was coming at you and you had to pull the gun, according to you, right?
A: yes
M: And he's also grabbing at you while you're on the ground and he's not being gentle about it right?
A: That's correct
M: no bruising no anything, other than just the thing the injury to the left ring-finger, right?
A: I don't know if my skull was bruised
M: Pardon
A: I don't know if my skull was bruised
M: Aside from that , but uh, did you get medical care for that?
A: no
M: Did you seek medical care for your finger?
A: No I did not,not professional
M: well you do have an injury to that left ring-finger don't you?
A: yes
M: And so when you arrive out in West Jordan Utah and you see Mr. Burns, you do have an injury to your left finger, correct?
A: We're talking about two different injuries. No
M: Well ma'am you just told me when we were talking about this killing that you injured your left ring-finger, do you remember just telling me now, just no, no more than two minutes ago.
A: Yes I was referring to this injury (holds up left hand)
M: Ma'am were we really talking about this particular injury at that time?
A: I didn't know
M: Oh , you don't know we were talking about the killing at that time?
A: you talked about injury to my left finger.
M: Ma'am what have we been talking about this whole afternoon?
N: Objection, argumentative
J: Overruled
A: June 4th
M: Pardon
A: June 4th
M: Right, we haven't mentioned any other day , right?
A: Not to my recollection.
M: You've been here throughout these proceedings and you've been asking, or you've been answering questions, right?
A: Yes
M: And as we were talking about it just now, I asked you isn't it true that the only injury as a result of this incident was this injury to the left ring-finger and you said yes, do you remember saying that?
A: I might have, but that's not what I meant
M: well ma'am you did say it didn't you
A: I don't know
M: And in fact, I followed it up by saying and you didn't seek medical care, do you remember me asking that?
A: I thought you meant about my skull
M: No, do you remember me asking you that
A: Yes
M: And do you remember you said well, not professional medical care, do you remember that?
A: I'm referring to the splint Travis made for me.
M: I know that that's what you're telling me now, but the line of questioning before involved the shooting, that's what we were talking about, right?
A: Yes, but then you went to my left finger
M: Mr. Alexander was dead after that, wasn't he?
A: Not immediately after that,
M: No, he grabbed the knife that you stabbed him with, didn't he, so he wasn't dead immediately after that, right?
N: Objection, calls for speculation she said she doesn't remember
J: Restate the question
M: And we're talking about Mr. Alexander an individual you just shot, right? So it's not like we're talking about him providing any medical care for you, are we?
A: that's right
M: You're the person that's come in here at least we know that you've indicated that you did kill Mr. Alexander , correct?
A: Yes
M: the only incident where this could have happened was on June 4th, 2008, right?
A: Yes
M: So this issue of him providing a splint or splinting your finger really doesn't have anything to do with June 4th of 2008, does it?
A: No
M: And you did say that the only injury you received was to your left ring-finger on June 4, 2008, remember that?
A: I didn't say that
M: well, yes you did and in fact you used the word physical injuries do you remember that/
N: Objection, argumentative, she said she didn't say that
J: Sustained
M: And you also indicated well I may have had some injuries to my head, do you remember that?
A: yes
M: Those were the only injuries that you sustained on June 4, 2008, remember I asked you about that and you said yes
A: that's not how I understood your question
M: so then he's down ma'am and he's to your right What happens now?
A: I break away from him and he screams out ****ing kill you *****
M: So then even though you've already shot him, he's been grabbing at you, he does say I'll ****ing kill you, *****, right?
A: I don't think he said I'll, those words are in my head. He may have said that maybe not , I just heard ****ing kill you *****.
M: Okay what are the words let's hear the words one more time so we can get them right?
A: I heard him say ****ing kill you *****
M: Aren't these the same words that you indicated that you heard when he was doing his pirouette outside the shower, ****ing kill you *****, aren't they the same words?
A: I don't think they were the same, he was still screaming at me coming after me.
M: Just so we're clear, what did he say as he's getting out of the shower?
A: As he was getting out of the shower he called me a ****ing idiot and said a ****ing 5 year old could hold the camera better than you
M: and then when he's down after being shot he says ****ing kill you, right?
A: After I broke away from him, right after, he screamed out when he couldn't grab me any more.
M: He's trying to grab you and he's still on the floor but you're able to get away, right?
A: Yes
M: I thought you said that he was this really, remember when you had the conversation with Det. Flores and you told him he was a really strong guy, a wrestler in high school, do you remember saying that?
A: Yes
M: You're saying you're able to get away from this man who was a wrestler in high school who's very strong, that's what you're saying, right?
A: Yes
M: And then what did you do?
A: I don't remember, I don't remember anything at that point so I would be speculating
M: so you don't remember a single, solitary thing after that, right?
A: there are a few little pieces that have come back sense but not immediately after, I don't remember.
M: Okay, well what are the pieces that have come back. Tell me about what you remember about this. Whatever pieces you remember.
A: um, at one point I remember dropping the knife and screaming
M: But that's something that's come to you since, right
A: Since, yes
M: You don't remember.. alright what else?
A: um, the others are more vague so I'm not sure
M: If they're vague, we don't want to hear them. Where were you standing when you had this recollection about dropping the knife and screaming
A: I don't remember the exact position but I was in the bathroom because it hit the tile.
M: Ma'am that's all that you remember with regard to this particular event, correct?
A: from that point to that point yes
Sidebar, afternoon recess
but I don't know the geography....and for some reason I was thinking that where she was stopped with the upside down plate was BEFORE then.......I wasn't thinking! DUH!!!!!!!
