jodi arias TAKES THE STAND FOR 14TH DAY #69*may contain graphic and adult content*

[Schuby]

There is a nuanced difference between the two words and it surprised me to hear her manipulate it (and other words) with such precision.

 

[shefner]

Shefner,
I read your reply to me on the last thread. I think Minor 4th has some great insights in his post to you. Whether you were used by a man or a woman is not the issue here. The issue is that you seem to feel we have no compassion for Jodi and I again ask you where was and where IS her compassion for Travis? Self defense is not slaughtering someone. And where is your compassion for a human being that has been slaughtered?

Her compassion for Travis? She allowed him to use her for sex. She was crazy about him. Perhaps this sent her over the edge...I don't know.

I have compassion for Travis. I feel terrible about the crime. I am not sure why he continued to see Arias if he didn't care for her.

I will say this, if it wasn't self defense then I feel sure it was pre-meditated.

 

[minor4th]

Even if someone believes this was a crime of passion, Jodi isn't claiming crime of passion; she's claiming self defense. Stabbing someone over a dozen times, slitting their throat and then shooting them in the face is not self defense. No amount of sexy time talk on the phone, or claims that Travis used Jodi for sex, or alleged abuse, will make it self defense.

IMO

There has been no evidence of "crime of passion" in the legal sense.

 

[perfectvirgo]

Hooray, thank you for restoring some dignity with the calm voice of reason, minor4th. These are valuable points that bear repeating:

Originally posted by minor4th
I'm going to jump in here because you're catching a lot of flack and I do agree with some of what you're saying.

I believe many who are so interested in this case are so outraged at the brutality of the crime and have such a passionate desire to see justice done, that it has become nearly impossible for them to see anything redeeming or sympathetic about Jodi. If she testifies about anything potentially negative about Travis, many assume she's lying. If she testifies about anything that humanizes her or benefits her case at all, there's an assumption she's lying. IMO this kind of mindset has been carried to the point of absurdity at times - to the point of hostility towards other posters who have a legitimately different point of view, and that IMO causes the discussion to be artificially limited at times.

I am firmly and absolutely convinced that Jodi committed this murder with premeditation. I can only guess at her motives, same as anyone. I think Jodi has lied to benefit herself, and I believe there's good reason to have suspicions about all of the negative things she has said about Travis -- she has shown that she will say whatever she thinks will help her at the moment.

However, I think it's also short sighted to believe that everything she says is a lie if it paints Travis in a poor light or paints her as sympathetic. Many here didn't believe Travis engaged in all these sexual activities with her -- but now we've heard him talking about the things he has done with Jodi and what appeared to be an ongoing sexual relationship with her at least until a couple weeks before she killed him. Those things did happen even though no one wanted to believe it of Travis.

I think it's wise to have suspicion about the things she says unless there's corroborating evidence, but until we've heard all the evidence there is - there's nothing wrong with keeping an open mind. Some things we have believed were lies from Jodi have turned out to be true. I think the journal entries today showed a side of Jodi that I never considered -- I think she tortured herself over Travis. She might have actually "felt" abused even if it was a totally distorted perception. But if Jodi has some amount of humanity to her, or if it's possible to see her as something other than an evil monster throughout every moment of her life, does it matter to the outcome of this case? I think not.

I like to think of it in terms of a worst case scenario rather than assuming she must be lying about the negative things she says about Travis. Of the things that have not been completely disproven from her testimony --what remains and would it even matter if all of those things are actually true? Right now, that's the worst case scenario.

From her testImony, here are the things that have not been conclusively disproven IMO:

Her testimony about Travis choking her on one occasion. I don't remember when this was supposed to be, but I don't recall any journal entries or other evidence directly refuting this episode. I believe the other alleged incidents of abuse have been disproven.

I think it's been established that Travis had a sexual fantasy involving tying her to a tree.

I think it has so far been established that Travis engaged in a push-pull dynamic with her. I would even concede that Jodi felt intense emotional turmoil over it. I do not believe it has been established that Travis' motive in the push-pul was anything malignant or cruel or anything other than his own ambivalence and fuzzy boundaries.

I do not think its been proven one way or the other whether or not Travis had sexual experience aside from Jodi.

It has not been established in my mind that Travis ever cheated on Jodi or that he cheated on Lisa.

It has been proven to my satisfaction that the pedophile incident never happened. To me this was proven through her absence of any mention of it, even in couched terms, in any of her 8,000 messages with Travis and in her journals. I suspect that Jodi distorted something and interpreted it to mean that Travis had some deviant sexual predilection -- but I do not think she really believed it, she just used it to hold over his head as a means of elevating herself and controlling him.

It has been established to my satisfaction that she stole the gun and took measures in advance to make it appear she was not in Mesa.

It has been established to my satisfaction that Jodi's finger injury happened on June 4, even if she cut her other finger on May 31.

That's about it, as far as I'm concerned.

So even if we assume the truth of the remaining incidents that have not been directly disproven - does this help her avoid conviction or the death penalty? Worst case scenario. IMO even if those things are true, it does not help her avoid conviction and does not help her avoid the death penalty. Heck, even if the pedophile incident were true it doesn't help her because premeditation has been proven, and none of her testimony established anything that would lead a reasonable person to fear for their life in the circumstances Jodi has described on June 4. The death penalty is appropriate because of the immense brutality of the crime, and nothing. negative about Travis is mitigation for Jodi.

 

[Gypsy Road]

What is likable about Jodi? I'm sorry... I just can't seem to seem to find one likable trait. I realize I am biased because I think she premeditated Travis' murder, but for those who see likable traits in her. What do you see? I'm asking this in a respectful way and am not at all trying to stir up an argument. I just don't see what you see and am trying to understand.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

Throughout this trial I have felt moments of empathy for Jodi because unfortunately, she reminds me of me when I was in my 20s. I had no self-esteem and wasted lots of time on guys who didn't love me, doing things I may not have wanted to do because I was desperate for them to want to be with me. I had a Dear Diary mentality and really, emotionally, was like a teenager in many respects. I recognize her behaviors with Travis - if I just do this, he'll realize he needs me, loves me. Fortunately I eventually learned to accept myself and to stop caring what other people think of me (much...I'm still human!)

However, at some point Jodi went over the abyss of reality with her obsession. Was Travis culpable to some extent? Absolutely. Once he started suspecting her of stealing his journals, crawling through the doggy door, slashing his tires, etc., that should have been it. He should have gotten a restraining order instead of continuing a sexual relationship with her.

Having said that, he surely didn't deserve to be murdered for his poor judgement. And I do think this is premeditated murder. If Jodi couldn't have him, no one could. I don't wish her dead, because I don't agree with the death penalty, but I look forward to a life sentence without possibility of parole.

Travis did what a lot of people do, he ignored his instincts about her. Even with all of the crazy stuff she was doing, he STILL didn't think it would go as far as it did. I hope people learn from his tale and that they take heed when they are dealing with someone like JA.

 

[TexMex]

They won't have access to the closed captioning. That was what was for demonstration purposes.

ETA: Your ETA came after my post went through.

So they will have the eited audio in addition to the original unedited?

 

[Schuby]

JA hasn't been studying the thesaurus carefully, she chose the wrong word (Ravish), there is a inference of rape in her own words.

Yes, there is, especially when the word was used before the contemporary era....but the term today is closer to "seduced"...sorry you guys I have a background in linguistics, could talk about this all day.

 

[Curious Me]

She killed him three times. She's still killing Travis in the courtroom to this day. She wants to destroy his total being and character. She needs the Death Penalty just so Travis and his Family can ever Rest in Peace.

 

[LinasK]

Her compassion for Travis? She allowed him to use her for sex. She was crazy about him. Perhaps this sent her over the edge...I don't know.

I have compassion for Travis. I feel terrible about the crime. I am not sure why he continued to see Arias if he didn't care for her.

I will say this, if it wasn't self defense then I feel sure it was pre-meditated.

Yeah she was crazy for him, try obsessed. What sent her over the edge were his texts telling her she was a sociopath, and the fact that he was taking another woman to Cancun. There is no evidence of self-defense. There is plenty of evidence of premeditation.

 

[jane the dood]

I actually think she's average intelligence.

**Smart idea to use gas cans to avoid stopping in Arizona. Then she blows it by borrowing a friend's gas cans and bought one with her debit card. FAIL. Stupid!

**Steals a gun from Grandad one week before. She should have saved her money and bought one underground. FAIL. Stupid!

**Rents a car. Uses her drivers license to rent it. Duh. FAIL.

I could go on and on. She's not very bright. Left trails everywhere.

What you said! Beyond her blunders, I just find JA pretentious and tiresome beyond belief. Listening to her testify is like watching paint dry; I'd much rather read the recaps HERE.

JA's biggest problem (above and beyond being a sociopath, sadist and cold-blooded killer) is she truly believes she is the smartest person in the room. And how stupid is that?

She's going to blab her way right into death row, or - at the very least - LWOP. :jail:

 

[BrownRice]

To this day, Jodi admits Travis was a great person...and that she loves him.

This sounds like an abuse victim.

But I need some expert information....

I'm not an expert, but in my opinion, I think she is purposefully doing this. It is so overboard I find it fake and hope the jury thinks so as well.

 

[thefragile7393]

Throughout this trial I have felt moments of empathy for Jodi because unfortunately, she reminds me of me when I was in my 20s. I had no self-esteem and wasted lots of time on guys who didn't love me, doing things I may not have wanted to do because I was desperate for them to want to be with me. I had a Dear Diary mentality and really, emotionally, was like a teenager in many respects. I recognize her behaviors with Travis - if I just do this, he'll realize he needs me, loves me. Fortunately I eventually learned to accept myself and to stop caring what other people think of me (much...I'm still human!)

However, at some point Jodi went over the abyss of reality with her obsession. Was Travis culpable to some extent? Absolutely. Once he started suspecting her of stealing his journals, crawling through the doggy door, slashing his tires, etc., that should have been it. He should have gotten a restraining order instead of continuing a sexual relationship with her.

Having said that, he surely didn't deserve to be murdered for his poor judgement. And I do think this is premeditated murder. If Jodi couldn't have him, no one could. I don't wish her dead, because I don't agree with the death penalty, but I look forward to a life sentence without possibility of parole.

The one thing I will say...no piece of paper would have stopped her. Tracey Thurman, for instance, found this out the hard way. Many people think it is so easy..."oh just do xyz and they will leave you alone." Sadly, that isn't true for many people. The amount of rage and anger she has..I don't honestly know if anything would have stopped her. Slow her down maybe. Stop? I really don't know.

 

[shefner]

I don't follow. Can you elaborate?

Yes DeAnna...I think that Travis used Arias for sex. He used her for the kind of sex he couldn't get with the good Mormon girls. He continued to see her even though he didn't care for her. And she did the same because she was in love with him. She was in love with him, even if he wasn't good for her.

He didn't pursue her in the classical sense. But I think he had a partial obsession with her too. He needed her sexually. The thought of her with another man in the way she was with him made him upset, even if he didn't love her.

This is just my concept...or what I get from what I have seen.

 

[minor4th]

I am not an attorney nor do I play one on TV so this is purely my opinion. I would think that part of being a good trial lawyer, either side, is being able to read people, I.e. the judge, jury, witnesses et al. The judge looked very peeved with the DT today and I am wondering if she is getting as tired as we are of hearing all this sextimony. If she is reflective of the jury, Nurmi needs to get a clue and wrap this up. JMO

I speculate that the jury is peeved with the repetition and marginal relevance.

 

[RATTKATT]

:floorlaugh: hln :floorlaugh:

 

[StephanieHartPI]

Throughout this trial I have felt moments of empathy for Jodi because unfortunately, she reminds me of me when I was in my 20s. I had no self-esteem and wasted lots of time on guys who didn't love me, doing things I may not have wanted to do because I was desperate for them to want to be with me. I had a Dear Diary mentality and really, emotionally, was like a teenager in many respects. I recognize her behaviors with Travis - if I just do this, he'll realize he needs me, loves me. Fortunately I eventually learned to accept myself and to stop caring what other people think of me (much...I'm still human!)

However, at some point Jodi went over the abyss of reality with her obsession. Was Travis culpable to some extent? Absolutely. Once he started suspecting her of stealing his journals, crawling through the doggy door, slashing his tires, etc., that should have been it. He should have gotten a restraining order instead of continuing a sexual relationship with her.

Having said that, he surely didn't deserve to be murdered for his poor judgement. And I do think this is premeditated murder. If Jodi couldn't have him, no one could. I don't wish her dead, because I don't agree with the death penalty, but I look forward to a life sentence without possibility of parole.

I don't think you are alone at all to see little glimpses of some of what was our youth (many of us) But as you point out, somewhere along that path something changed and took you in a different direction. Learning to accept ourselves is a big part of that. Sometimes the simple things we hear that sound cliche are so true. Love ourselves and others will be able to love us also.

And here we sit in 2013 and we have not decapitated anyone or taken someones life. That is not to say that we might not know someone with a colorful past, whether we know it or not. I still greet each person with their baggage as a potential friend, as I would not want to be prejudged myself.

I think that has come with age...maybe?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Her compassion for Travis? She allowed him to use her for sex. She was crazy about him. Perhaps this sent her over the edge...I don't know.

I have compassion for Travis. I feel terrible about the crime. I am not sure why he continued to see Arias if he didn't care for her.

I will say this, if it wasn't self defense then I feel sure it was pre-meditated.

Jodi is incapable of love. She has no close attachments to anyone...she exists only for her own gratification. She wanted Travis because in her mind that would elevate her status. He was easy to manipulate. I think she felt she had hit gold when she discovered the Mormon community. She used sex her entire life to get what she wanted from the men in her life.

News flash....men ( and women) have sex with people they really don't care about all the time.

 

[Curious Me]

She killed him three times. She's still killing Travis in the courtroom to this day. She wants to destroy his total being and character. She needs the Death Penalty so Travis can ever Rest in Peace. She's put his Family through absolute h3ll.

 

[Softail]

Her compassion for Travis? She allowed him to use her for sex. She was crazy about him. Perhaps this sent her over the edge...I don't know.

I have compassion for Travis. I feel terrible about the crime. I am not sure why he continued to see Arias if he didn't care for her.

I will say this, if it wasn't self defense then I feel sure it was pre-meditated.

I may have bought the self defense, if he had been stabbed once or shot once. The way she butchered him, to me shows pure rage and anger.