Jodi Arias Trial Watchers Thread #1

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  • #1,001
Why would he be sitting in that shower? I just think that's odd.

It's possible she had the gun on him at that point and wanted him to shower to get any traces of her DNA off of him. He does look like he has figured out he may not survive this ordeal. jmo
 
  • #1,002
I see lots of opinions about this needing to be a DP case because of things like the amount of blood and the fact she stabbed and shot T.A. That's not what makes a case a *successful* death penalty case (successful meaning the jury votes for death). It's the totality of everything, including any prior felonies by the defendant and the number and age of victims and what other crimes were committed during the primary crime.

Just because one scene is super gory and another scene isn't, doesn't mean the case should be a DP case.

Here you have a spurned lover of the victim--a woman who desperately wanted to be in this guy's life on a permanent basis. She's obviously obsessed with him. He leads her on to some extent, sometimes more, sometimes less. He was cruel to her--that is clear in some of their communciations and I'm sure that escalated matters between them along the way.

She refused to take the hint or a 2x4 of rudeness slammed on her. While she premeditated the murder, her planning was erratic, and her actions afterwards were ridiculous.

But back to the point: you have a case in which there was an emotional connection between murderer and victim, an ongoing relationship of sorts, a spurned lover who is acting out of jealousy, abandonment, rage, they are 2 adults in an otherwise consenting (if highly dysfunctional) relationship. The victim did not deserve to be murdered (and this was not self-defense). But neither is *this* crime what most consider "the worst of the worst."

If someone told you the generics/generality about a case in which a lover kills the other lover in a rage killing, after being rejected repeatedly but not taking their dignity and walking away for good, do you immediately think to yourself, "oh yes, that's a DP case if I ever heard one?" I highly doubt it. You'd probably think, "oh here we go again. Another person who just couldn't let go..." Now how many intimate partner or spousal murder cases have we seen in the last decade. Hundreds, probably. How many of those cases have been DP cases? One or two. There's a reason for that. You don't give the DP to every first degree murderer. Life without parole, yes! DP for every single case, no.

BTW, remember hearing about and remember the reaction to the Petit family murders? Or little Samantha Runnion's kidnapping, rape and murder? Verrrrry different than vengeful intimate partner rage killing. Those cases are perfect examples of ones that rise to being obviously DP cases. This one, (TA murder), not so much IMO. And it's not because the family is more sad in one case or there's more blood or less blood in a case, or it's a woman in one case or a man in another case, it's the circumstances and prior actions and a whole host of factors that have nothing to do with how much blood one scene has versus a different scene or that one killer is nicer or more cunning. Totality. What prior felonies are in play? How many victims? Age of the victim(s)? All these factors come into play.

The issue for me and what makes it a DP case is the planning I believe that went into it. IMO it wasn't spur of the moment. She went there knowing she was going to kill him after she had sex with him. That's some cold premeditated scary poop there!

I think she formulated her plan more than a week prior, when reporting the gun stolen, again when she had her license plate upside down on her car.

The complete and total lack of any remorse, her inserting herself into the investigation.


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  • #1,003
I wonder why she apparently tried cleaning up some stuff but not others? I mean, she put stuff in the wash (maybe to get rid of evidence) and she obviously mopped up some blood with that towel. But she didn't bother cleaning anything else as evidenced by the incredibly bloody scene. (I read that she 'cleaned' off his body but I don't know if that's true.) So why bother at all?

My guess would be she was cleaning up bloody foot prints...her's. jmo
 
  • #1,004
So, if I am imaging this correctly...she got in that shower,with a dead Travis, ...and showered.

Damn.... That's scary


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  • #1,005
Based on everything I've read about them both, I think they probably both were "sociopaths" and Jodi had the added oomph that bumped her up to the "psycho"path part. A match made in hell.

Statements like these really make me angry! WHY are we calling someone a sociopath just because of the things that the KILLER has told us about him, or the things that she probably wrote on his Facebook since she had the passwords? Just because a person has confidence in themselves, dresses nicely and keeps a clean house does NOT make them a sociopath! This man was brutally murdered for no other reason than the fact that he did not want to be with a psychopath! Sheesh!
 
  • #1,006
The issue for me and what makes it a DP case is the planning I believe that went into it. IMO it wasn't spur of the moment. She went there knowing she was going to kill him after she had sex with him. That's some cold premeditated scary poop there!

I think she formulated her plan more than a week prior, when reporting the gun stolen, again when she had her license plate upside down on her car.

The complete and total lack of any remorse, her inserting herself into the investigation.

What you've highlighted is the difference between first degree murder and second degree murder, not the difference in "death" as a sentence versus "life without parole." She could have just as easily been waiting to see if she would kill him based on what happened that night at his house and not yet decided until she acted on it. However, having a loaded gun shows preparation though. But imagine if Travis had surprised her by saying he wanted to work on their relationship with a view towards a long term commitment. Would she have killed him then? Probably not. This murder played out through many hours of their dealing with each other. This murder *could* be considered to have some elements of second degree. Ultimately though I believe it is 1st degree murder.

1st Degree Murder: includes premeditation along with intent (note: pre-planning, which is different than premeditation and is not a legal concept, is involved in many 1st degree murders. A murder being pre-planned helps to make the premeditation argument but is not something that exists separately.)

2nd Degree Murder: not premeditated, but does include intent. Crimes of passion and rage but with no premeditation fall into this category.


DP is a sentence. Life Without Parole is another type of sentence.

So once a person is convicted of 1st Degree Murder, if the state is asking the jury to decide the sentence (death or life), they go to another phase where the jury has to hear more evidence that includes aggravating and mitigating factors.

Being cold/scary/sex-starved/mean is not really a factor. ALL 1st degree murders are cruel, mean, and pointless and the people who commit them are not nice folks. Premeditated murder is never okay. That's why there are sentences that put people away in prison for the rest of their lives without the possibility of ever getting out. That protects society from such a person. One has to separate out their emotion and desire for revenge and apply the law properly. It's the way our system is designed.

To sentence someone to death there needs to be more than just a premeditated killing. This is where the aggravating vs mitigating factors come into play.

I believe this jury will convict Arias. However, I do not believe the jury (if they do convict her of 1st degree murder) will unanimously vote for the death penalty. I'm pro death penalty and I would not vote for death in *this* case.
 
  • #1,007
I wonder why she apparently tried cleaning up some stuff but not others? I mean, she put stuff in the wash (maybe to get rid of evidence) and she obviously mopped up some blood with that towel. But she didn't bother cleaning anything else as evidenced by the incredibly bloody scene. (I read that she 'cleaned' off his body but I don't know if that's true.) So why bother at all?

My thoughts are that she thought that if she cleaned his body that she could destroy any DNA belonging to her, ie., clean his body, the sheets, towles (she was bleeding too), comforter, pillow cases..... Remember she originally said that she was not there. I'm also thinking that he collapsed in the bedroom and the only way she could move him was to roll him over onto the comforter and then pull him across the floor (I live alone and many times will move something by slipping a blanket under it and slide it on the blanket). There is a slim chance that the camera got tangled in the sheets or bed covers and she pushed the bloodied laundry into the washer along with the camera. I can't see her purposefully leaving the camera behind unless she couldn't find it when she decided to leave and had to just abandon looking for it.
 
  • #1,008
I was actually glad that there was no trial today. I was out of groceries and most important, out of toilet paper, LOL. I have watched 99% of the trial with the exception of having to take a few phone calls and maybe I missed this. There is a photo of duct tape wadded up like it was used to bind someone and then just removed. Has this been explained yet? If he were bound in this way it would explain how a small woman could have stabbed him so many times and cut his throat without too much resistance. I sure would appreciate any info I may have missed on the duct tape. TIA
 
  • #1,009
Statements like these really make me angry! WHY are we calling someone a sociopath just because of the things that the KILLER has told us about him, or the things that she probably wrote on his Facebook since she had the passwords? Just because a person has confidence in themselves, dresses nicely and keeps a clean house does NOT make them a sociopath! This man was brutally murdered for no other reason than the fact that he did not want to be with a psychopath! Sheesh!

What? I've not read a word that Jodi said about him or anything on his fb...ever. My impression is based on the statements of his friends, family and colleagues and himself including what I've read about his background, career and aspirations and his very own statements about them as posted here.

Can't imagine why my having an opinion on the personality of Travis makes anyone angry. I didn't say he deserved to die. Just for example, he totally let her have it within a week of his death per his friend to the point that his friend thought she might harm him because of it, yet there are pics of him in provocative sexual poses with her within minutes of his death? I think they were both fubar. Like I said -- match made in hell.
 
  • #1,010
Agree lonetraveler, dont see her intentionally leaving the camera either. Do we know if it was her's or his's? Wasn't one of the stories he was mad at her for dropping the camera?
 
  • #1,011
Agree lonetraveler, dont see her intentionally leaving the camera either. Do we know if it was her's or his's? Wasn't one of the stories he was mad at her for dropping the camera?

Supposedly it was his camera and new. The story that he was mad at her for dropping the camera is her story.
 
  • #1,012
What? I've not read a word that Jodi said about him or anything on his fb...ever. My impression is based on the statements of his friends, family and colleagues and himself including what I've read about his background, career and aspirations and his very own statements about them as posted here.

Can't imagine why my having an opinion on the personality of Travis makes anyone angry. I didn't say he deserved to die. Just for example, he totally let her have it within a week of his death per his friend to the point that his friend thought she might harm him because of it, yet there are pics of him in provocative sexual poses with her within minutes of his death? I think they were both fubar. Like I said -- match made in hell.
Karmady, IMO, you do have a point.. Just saying "he's a man" doesnt excuse continuing sex with one who by all accounts could be dangerous.. nor is it very smart and by all accounts he was sucessful, etc. ( I have few opinions with regards too, going to keep to myself :) That said I do hope she never see's the light of day...pure evil
 
  • #1,013
I do get the feeling that Travis may have been full of himself, and that he degraded her. Also he kept sleeping with her while he dated other women, not good.

I'd sure like to know more about her background.

I would like to know more about her previous boyfriend, and any others before. Was she the same with them? Stalkerish, over-the-top sexual, ready to conform to whatever lifestyle they held at a moment's notice? That would say a lot to this jury, I think.

Maybe Travis was full of himself, many successful and unsuccessful men are. As far as him degrading her, well, I think I read that there were over 80k (probably way off on this) e-mail messages between the two over the time they knew each other. I'm sure that both parties were degrading to each other at some point (we've read evidence of this). I'm wondering who was degrading who? Was it a mutual thing? In my mind, probably. It was dangerous, sexy, dirty, and they both wanted it to be that way, no matter what religion or morals had to say about it. It ended with a rage-filled, jealous young woman getting ticked off and driving a thousand miles to kill the man who probably wanted to put and end to the most exciting part of her life. All my opinion.

Something tells me that she is actually very, very insecure. Four years ago, she was attractive, would have no problem finding a nice-looking man. But she focused everything she had on Travis, either because he had everything she thought she wanted, or because she was too insecure to find what she really needed. Again, imo.
 
  • #1,014
Karmady, IMO, you do have a point.. Just saying "he's a man" doesnt excuse continuing sex with one who by all accounts could be dangerous.. nor is it very smart and by all accounts he was sucessful, etc. ( I have few opinions with regards too, going to keep to myself :) That said I do hope she never see's the light of day...pure evil

Right. I'm not trying to upset anyone or excuse his murderer. I think her issues run very deep. I'm local and may try to take in a particularly interesting day of the trial. Any suggestions? I haven't been following very closely. Also, considering the crime scene photos I've seen, not sure I can handle the forensics portion! But I've never seen a DP case tried in person and would like to attend at least a day.
 
  • #1,015
So, if I am imaging this correctly...she got in that shower,with a dead Travis, ...and showered.

Damn.... That's scary


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Scary and cold as ice.

What's been running through my mind since I saw the size of the shower... she drug him, physically drug him, down that hallway and into that tiny shower. By herself. That's a megaton of rage. All I've seen picture wise of her are the ones from FB/MS and of course from TV. Some look kind of silly cute, and in court now she looks just blank. What did she look like when she confronted him? We saw CA's rage face quite a few times, before and during trial. Will be interesting to see if Jodi reveals hers.

If she does, I doubt I'll be able to sleep that night.
 
  • #1,016
Right. I'm not trying to upset anyone or excuse his murderer. I think her issues run very deep. I'm local and may try to take in a particularly interesting day of the trial. Any suggestions? I haven't been following very closely. Also, considering the crime scene photos I've seen, not sure I can handle the forensics portion! But I've never seen a DP case tried in person and would like to attend at least a day.

If she's scheduled to take the stand, camp outside and report back! :rocker:
 
  • #1,017
Scary and cold as ice.

What's been running through my mind since I saw the size of the shower... she drug him, physically drug him, down that hallway and into that tiny shower. By herself. That's a megaton of rage. All I've seen picture wise of her are the ones from FB/MS and of course from TV. Some look kind of silly cute, and in court now she looks just blank. What did she look like when she confronted him? We saw CA's rage face quite a few times, before and during trial. Will be interesting to see if Jodi reveals hers.

If she does, I doubt I'll be able to sleep that night.

Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious since I've not been following this case here at all, but how would she have taken a pic of him alive, alert and in the shower moments before his death if she drugged and dragged him there from the bedroom?
 
  • #1,018
If she's scheduled to take the stand, camp outside and report back! :rocker:

If she testifies, yes, that'd be the day I'll be there. But I'm guessing that'll never happen!
 
  • #1,019
Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious since I've not been following this case here at all, but how would she have taken a pic of him alive, alert and in the shower moments before his death if she drugged and dragged him there from the bedroom?

The picture of him looking into the camera was taken, according to the prosecution, 44 seconds before she stabbed him in the heart. That's what Beth Karas has been reporting.

After the stab to the heart, he supposedly makes it down the hallway where she then cut him further. Supposedly, she then dragged him back into the bathroom/shower.
 
  • #1,020
The picture of him looking into the camera was taken, according to the prosecution, 44 seconds before she stabbed him in the heart. That's what Beth Karas has been reporting.

After the stab to the heart, he supposedly makes it down the hallway where she then cut him further. Supposedly, she then dragged him back into the bathroom/shower.

Thank you...I think!
 
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