Jodi Arias Trial Watchers Thread #1

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I can't interpret any particular thing about that picture of him 44 seconds before her attack. Is the shower door open in that picture? It looks like it was taken of him through the door. He may not have noticed she was holding a knife.

It's easy to read something into a split second photograph, but there isn't anything definitive in that picture that informs me. It could be surprise, it could be irritation, it could be fear, it could be any number of emotions. It's like a Rorschach Ink Blot test. People see what they project onto the picture.
 
I can't interpret any particular thing about that picture of him 44 seconds before her attack. Is the shower door open in that picture? It looks like it was taken of him through the door. He may not have noticed she was holding a knife.

It's easy to read something into a split second photograph, but there isn't anything definitive in that picture that informs me. It could be surprise, it could be irritation, it could be fear, it could be any number of emotions. It's like a Rorschach Ink Blot test. People see what they project onto the picture.

I don't see anything at all in that pic. My assumption is that he thought/she said that it was just another pic in her attempts at "art." I don't think right at that point he had any thought about his mortality.
 
I have the feeling that the defense attorneys are having a difficult time keeping Jodi Arias from testifying. She appears to be so sure of herself and her ability to manipulate people.
 
Statements like these really make me angry! WHY are we calling someone a sociopath just because of the things that the KILLER has told us about him, or the things that she probably wrote on his Facebook since she had the passwords? Just because a person has confidence in themselves, dresses nicely and keeps a clean house does NOT make them a sociopath! This man was brutally murdered for no other reason than the fact that he did not want to be with a psychopath! Sheesh!

amen.. This woman is B.O.R.D.E.R.L.I N.E.

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Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious since I've not been following this case here at all, but how would she have taken a pic of him alive, alert and in the shower moments before his death if she drugged and dragged him there from the bedroom?

There is a picture of him in the shower (it's in this thread a few pages back) where he is alive, and it was taken just a couple of minutes before the picture of him bleeding in the shower. However, from what I've seen, and I could have misunderstood, there is a blood trail up the hallway from the master bathroom towards the bedroom, and a picture of her (or a portion of her) dragging his body. So, either he stumbled his way back to the shower, dying there, or she drug him there. Pretty sure I heart the prosecutor say something about drag marks? I'll have to read the court transcript if I can find it.
 
This case reminds me so much of the murder of The Scarsdale Diet Dr murder, the one in which Jean Harris murdered Herman Tarnower in Scarsdale NY, 1980. She just died a week or so ago.

Does anyone else notice the similarities?
 
Yes now that you mention it there are similarities. Note that in the Scarsdale case she didn't get a life without parole sentence. Also look at the Susan Wright case. She got 25 years. That's fairly common.
 
amen.. This woman is B.O.R.D.E.R.L.I N.E.

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No doubt there's something wrong with her. My point was that there was something wrong with him, too. Not something that made him deserve to be dead, but something that made the relationship between the two deadly. Per the OP all he did was want to get out of a relationship with a psycho. But clearly that's not the case since he was posing with her sexually minutes before his murder AFTER he'd gone off on her via e-mail or chat or whatever about being a 'ho and hours before he was supposed to leave on vacation with a different girl, etc. etc.
 
No doubt there's something wrong with her. My point was that there was something wrong with him, too. Not something that made him deserve to be dead, but something that made the relationship between the two deadly. Per the OP all he did was want to get out of a relationship with a psycho. But clearly that's not the case since he was posing with her sexually minutes before his murder AFTER he'd gone off on her via e-mail or chat or whatever about being a 'ho and hours before he was supposed to leave on vacation with a different girl, etc. etc.

Extremely toxic relationship, no doubt. But there are some people who find that toxicity attractive and addictive. Maybe this is one of those instances.

Whatever the case, it certainly didn't end well for anybody. That includes the defendant, because I doubt she walks free from this. I guess we'll see. And I hope I'm right :moo:
 
Look at this how creepy :

"
From
Travis Alexander- Online funeral Guest Book.
This Guest Book will remain online permanently.

June 14, 2008
Travis, what can I say to you that I haven't already said? I am so grateful for the endless hours of conversation and amazing experiences we've shared. Thank you for having the courage to share the Gospel with me. You've had one of the greatest impacts on my life, and have forever altered it's course for the better. I love you, my friend, and always will.
~
Jodi Arias,
Yreka, California

Yeah, self defense. Riiiiiighttttt.

Yes, creepy because we know she murdered him. The sharing the Gospel part is normal-speak (in my experience) for a new LDS convert. I would love to know if she was so crazy, why did he baptize her?? I am guessing she was a "hormonal convert" to the LDS faith.

From what I read by his friends, he determined after she was baptized that she wasn't marriage material. I think it was a gradual thing. The crazy stalking didn't happen until after the baptism, to my knowledge.

But most people believe even a crazy person or an evil person deserves salvation.

Which is why everyone should be careful on who they come across, or who you date (or marry), because there are certain people out there that could turn against someone in a blink of an eye & do very awful things to them if you either reject them, break-up with them &/or divorce them (if you're in a relationship), or if you have an affair on them.

And those in a relationship should be very careful not to make someone very angry at them as well.

Listen, I deal with domestic violence cases in my practice every day. It's not about making someone angry. It's the first part you stated - rejection is enough to make a psycho flip.

And IMO, this girl wasn't angry because Travis said anything rude or derogatory to her. She was enraged because he didn't want her. Classic, dangerous stalker.

But you're totally right. The moment you get an inkling that something might be off about a person, get the heck out of the relationship and stay out, no matter what!

I see lots of opinions about this needing to be a DP case because of things like the amount of blood and the fact she stabbed and shot T.A. That's not what makes a case a *successful* death penalty case (successful meaning the jury votes for death). It's the totality of everything, including any prior felonies by the defendant and the number and age of victims and what other crimes were committed during the primary crime.

You don't give the DP to every first degree murderer. Life without parole, yes! DP for every single case, no.

BTW, remember hearing about and remember the reaction to the Petit family murders? Or little Samantha Runnion's kidnapping, rape and murder? Verrrrry different than vengeful intimate partner rage killing. Those cases are perfect examples of ones that rise to being obviously DP cases. This one, (TA murder), not so much IMO. And it's not because the family is more sad in one case or there's more blood or less blood in a case, or it's a woman in one case or a man in another case, it's the circumstances and prior actions and a whole host of factors that have nothing to do with how much blood one scene has versus a different scene or that one killer is nicer or more cunning. Totality. What prior felonies are in play? How many victims? Age of the victim(s)? All these factors come into play.

Snipped for space.

I understand what you are saying here. I get most of it. But under AZ law, I think she is eligible. It is the cold, calculating and gruesome manner that makes that so (I'm looking at 6 and 13):
F. The trier of fact shall consider the following aggravating circumstances in determining whether to impose a sentence of death:
1. The defendant has been convicted of another offense in the United States for which under Arizona law a sentence of life imprisonment or death was imposable.

2. The defendant has been or was previously convicted of a serious offense, whether preparatory or completed. Convictions for serious offenses committed on the same occasion as the homicide, or not committed on the same occasion but consolidated for trial with the homicide, shall be treated as a serious offense under this paragraph.

3. In the commission of the offense the defendant knowingly created a grave risk of death to another person or persons in addition to the person murdered during the commission of the offense.

4. The defendant procured the commission of the offense by payment, or promise of payment, of anything of pecuniary value.

5. The defendant committed the offense as consideration for the receipt, or in expectation of the receipt, of anything of pecuniary value.

6. The defendant committed the offense in an especially heinous, cruel or depraved manner.

7. The defendant committed the offense while:

(a) In the custody of or on authorized or unauthorized release from the state department of corrections, a law enforcement agency or a county or city jail.

(b) On probation for a felony offense.
8. The defendant has been convicted of one or more other homicides, as defined in section 13-1101, that were committed during the commission of the offense.

9. The defendant was an adult at the time the offense was committed or was tried as an adult and the murdered person was under fifteen years of age, was an unborn child in the womb at any stage of its development or was seventy years of age or older.

10. The murdered person was an on duty peace officer who was killed in the course of performing the officer's official duties and the defendant knew, or should have known, that the murdered person was a peace officer.

11. The defendant committed the offense with the intent to promote, further or assist the objectives of a criminal street gang or criminal syndicate or to join a criminal street gang or criminal syndicate.

12. The defendant committed the offense to prevent a person's cooperation with an official law enforcement investigation, to prevent a person's testimony in a court proceeding, in retaliation for a person's cooperation with an official law enforcement investigation or in retaliation for a person's testimony in a court proceeding.

13. The offense was committed in a cold, calculated manner without pretense of moral or legal justification.

14. The defendant used a remote stun gun or an authorized remote stun gun in the commission of the offense. For the purposes of this paragraph:

(a) "Authorized remote stun gun" means a remote stun gun that has all of the following:

(i) An electrical discharge that is less than one hundred thousand volts and less than nine joules of energy per pulse.

(ii) A serial or identification number on all projectiles that are discharged from the remote stun gun.

(iii) An identification and tracking system that, on deployment of remote electrodes, disperses coded material that is traceable to the purchaser through records that are kept by the manufacturer on all remote stun guns and all individual cartridges sold.

(iv) A training program that is offered by the manufacturer.

(b) "Remote stun gun" means an electronic device that emits an electrical charge and that is designed and primarily employed to incapacitate a person or animal either through contact with electrodes on the device itself or remotely through wired probes that are attached to the device or through a spark, plasma, ionization or other conductive means emitting from the device.
http://deathpenalty.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=4866

My father and my sons closets and drawers look like that too! My dad hung his shirts two fingers apart, by color and sleeve lengths. You should have seen the garage and his tool/workshop area!

No way is either of them control freaks. My dads motto was "a place for everything, and everything in its place. If there was a lint ball on the carpet, he'd bend over, pick it up...and walk it to the trash!
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That was my grandma's quote!!!!

Statements like these really make me angry! WHY are we calling someone a sociopath just because of the things that the KILLER has told us about him, or the things that she probably wrote on his Facebook since she had the passwords? Just because a person has confidence in themselves, dresses nicely and keeps a clean house does NOT make them a sociopath! This man was brutally murdered for no other reason than the fact that he did not want to be with a psychopath! Sheesh!

Thank you.
 
Extremely toxic relationship, no doubt. But there are some people who find that toxicity attractive and addictive. Maybe this is one of those instances.

Whatever the case, it certainly didn't end well for anybody. That includes the defendant, because I doubt she walks free from this. I guess we'll see. And I hope I'm right :moo:

Agree. And I want to be very clear since I haven't posted on this thread and really don't want to unnecessarily upset people who've been following it all along. I think she'll be convicted, for sure. But I don't think the victim is the choir boy he's being made out to be. Nor do I think him being a choir boy is necessary to her conviction.
 
No doubt there's something wrong with her. My point was that there was something wrong with him, too. Not something that made him deserve to be dead, but something that made the relationship between the two deadly. Per the OP all he did was want to get out of a relationship with a psycho. But clearly that's not the case since he was posing with her sexually minutes before his murder AFTER he'd gone off on her via e-mail or chat or whatever about being a 'ho and hours before he was supposed to leave on vacation with a different girl, etc. etc.

My disagreement is in calling the victim a sociopath. NONE of us here know what went on in his mind or what he wanted to do regarding getting out of the relationship. His friends said he wanted out. His going to Mexico with another woman seemed he wanted out. Her having to stalk him obviously means that she isn't getting what she wanted out of the relationship.

None of us know what those photos show. It has been said that they are posing, but how does that make him a sociopath? He was a young, hot blooded man. So he had sex with her. How does that make him a sociopath?
 
I see lots of opinions about this needing to be a DP case because of things like the amount of blood and the fact she stabbed and shot T.A. That's not what makes a case a *successful* death penalty case (successful meaning the jury votes for death). It's the totality of everything, including any prior felonies by the defendant and the number and age of victims and what other crimes were committed during the primary crime.

Just because one scene is super gory and another scene isn't, doesn't mean the case should be a DP case.

Here you have a spurned lover of the victim--a woman who desperately wanted to be in this guy's life on a permanent basis. She's obviously obsessed with him. He leads her on to some extent, sometimes more, sometimes less. He was cruel to her--that is clear in some of their communciations and I'm sure that escalated matters between them along the way.

She refused to take the hint or a 2x4 of rudeness slammed on her. While she premeditated the murder, her planning was erratic, and her actions afterwards were ridiculous.

But back to the point: you have a case in which there was an emotional connection between murderer and victim, an ongoing relationship of sorts, a spurned lover who is acting out of jealousy, abandonment, rage, they are 2 adults in an otherwise consenting (if highly dysfunctional) relationship. The victim did not deserve to be murdered (and this was not self-defense). But neither is *this* crime what most consider "the worst of the worst."

If someone told you the generics/generality about a case in which a lover kills the other lover in a rage killing, after being rejected repeatedly but not taking their dignity and walking away for good, do you immediately think to yourself, "oh yes, that's a DP case if I ever heard one?" I highly doubt it. You'd probably think, "oh here we go again. Another person who just couldn't let go..." Now how many intimate partner or spousal murder cases have we seen in the last decade. Hundreds, probably. How many of those cases have been DP cases? One or two. There's a reason for that. You don't give the DP to every first degree murderer. Life without parole, yes! DP for every single case, no.

BTW, remember hearing about and remember the reaction to the Petit family murders? Or little Samantha Runnion's kidnapping, rape and murder? Verrrrry different than vengeful intimate partner rage killing. Those cases are perfect examples of ones that rise to being obviously DP cases. This one, (TA murder), not so much IMO. And it's not because the family is more sad in one case or there's more blood or less blood in a case, or it's a woman in one case or a man in another case, it's the circumstances and prior actions and a whole host of factors that have nothing to do with how much blood one scene has versus a different scene or that one killer is nicer or more cunning. Totality. What prior felonies are in play? How many victims? Age of the victim(s)? All these factors come into play.


MOO, but I think a death penalty case hinges on premeditation. That is the make or break on a murder one charge isn't it? That's why her DT is trying so desperately to paint her as a victim. They want to make it come across as a crime of passion, not a calculated and well thought out murder.
 
I hope some of the verified mental health professionals on WS will weigh in on this case. They can help us understand what can lead a woman like Jodi Arias to be so filled with rage against Travis that she killed him, and in such a brutal manner. I agree with gitana1 - Jodi didn't kill Travis because he was rude to her. She killed him because he rejected her. Also, as gitana1 and others have suggested, Travis' decision to take someone else to Cancun may have been "the last straw" in Jodi's mind. Perhaps his choosing a different traveling companion for that trip caused her to see once and for all that she would never have the type of relationship with Travis she longed for, so she made sure no one else would either. JMO, MOO
 
I hope some of the verified mental health professionals on WS will weigh in on this case. They can help us understand what can lead a woman like Jodi Arias to be so filled with rage against Travis that she killed him, and in such a brutal manner. I agree with gitana1 - Jodi didn't kill Travis because he was rude to her. She killed him because he rejected her. Also, as gitana1 and others have suggested, Travis' decision to take someone else to Cancun may have been "the last straw" in Jodi's mind. Perhaps his choosing a different traveling companion for that trip caused her to see once and for all that she would never have the type of relationship with Travis she longed for, so she made sure no one else would either. JMO, MOO

I think that you hit the nail on the head here. People like Jodi (narcissists) can't handle any sort of rejection. I think that every time that she went to seduce him into having sex with her, she hoped that they would get back together. I personally feel that she premeditated this murder and the plan was to go there to try to convince TA to get back into a relationship with her. But, just in case he said no, she brought the gun and knife with her. I think that a LOT went on in those hours that they were together in that house.
 
My father and my sons closets and drawers look like that too! My dad hung his shirts two fingers apart, by color and sleeve lengths. You should have seen the garage and his tool/workshop area!

No way is either of them control freaks. My dads motto was "a place for everything, and everything in its place. If there was a lint ball on the carpet, he'd bend over, pick it up...and walk it to the trash!







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My motto is: A place for everything.....and everything OUT of place. :rocker:
 
There is little doubt that she is guilty of a brutal murder and I am in no way defending her but I don't completely buy the image of him as a choir boy, an innocent who was seduced by him, etc. Something about him strikes me as arrogant and even derogatory towards women.

I think he liked to portray his image as spiritually enlightened and he rejected Jodi because she was not pure and he needed a more virtuous and virginal woman to marry to match the image he wanted to portray. He was more than willing to sleep with Jodi and perform all sorts of dirty deeds with her in the night but in the light of day he rejected her as not good enough for him. In some ways he despised her because she knew how un-virtuous he could be. She was a reminder of how very sinful he was and he did not like that.

Just the fact that he called her a "three hole wonder" and wrote on his blog that he would like meet many different people "except 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬" and made a derogatory remarks about 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 on MySpace and their webcams (if I remember rightly) makes me wonder....

So he was putting women down for taking sexy or revealing pictures (and sending or offering to send them to him) and that made them 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬?? But wasn't he having sex with Jodi and they were taking pics of it with his new camera? So he must have liked that after all but didn't want it publicly known because he had his spiritual mormom image to maintain.

He kind of reminds me of one of the people who profess to hate gay people and yet they are secretly gay themselves. In public he put her down but in secret he still liked to use her that way, then reject her. There are many men like that but unfortunately for him, he chose to play that game with a sociopath who did not take rejection well.

Mind you, I am not blaming Travis or in any way defending Jodi. I'm just remarking on what I have observed from the evidence. Nothing at all excuses her actions and I hope she gets the sentence she deserves.
 
Right. I'm not trying to upset anyone or excuse his murderer. I think her issues run very deep. I'm local and may try to take in a particularly interesting day of the trial. Any suggestions? I haven't been following very closely. Also, considering the crime scene photos I've seen, not sure I can handle the forensics portion! But I've never seen a DP case tried in person and would like to attend at least a day.

I agree with you. There is no excuse for she has done unless they can prove that he was about to kill her...which of course they can not. But in these high profile cases it seems the victims become saints and the killers the devil(may be true about her). TA according to the family and friends was a devout Morman, super attractive, super successful and a wonderful person all around. I think he may have been those things in their eyes but he sounds like he was actually an average young man building his career, who might have been trying to be a "devout" Morman but was not, was a bit of of player when he felt like it. And I agree, a little full of himself. Again, not a saint, just an average young guy who certainly did not deserve this horrible death.
 
This case reminds me so much of the murder of The Scarsdale Diet Dr murder, the one in which Jean Harris murdered Herman Tarnower in Scarsdale NY, 1980. She just died a week or so ago.

Does anyone else notice the similarities?

I think the one huge difference in that case was Tanover was the prescribing Dr for all of Jean's drugs(speed). He was presrcibing huge amounts to her for several years and cut her off several days before incident, according to Shana Alexander's book...she was clearly in the throes of withdrawal. I do not beleive she went there to kill him, I beleive she planned to kill herself.IMO the amphet/speed addtiction, withdrawal, and his cruel treatment of her colided that night. Once the gun went off she kept shooting. Murder yes but no way in the same league as JA. I think JA is a more "calm" Betty Broderick.
 
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