John Found JonBenet's Body Prior to 911 Call

[TressaRing28]

Good point! I don't believe she was killed in that house, I believe she was kidnapped and returned to lessen the chance for a full investigation.

Ok I'll bite, where was she taken? Full investigation? Boulder is not capable of conducting a full investigation...

 

[sissi]

John Ramsey and Fleet White searched the basemrnt together at about 1:00 P.M. (they found the body at 1:05 P.M.). The two of them went to the train room first to inspect the broken window, and then headed for the wine cellar. They didn't report a chair in front of the door to the train room.


When FW & JR searched the basement at 1 p.m. - I thought John headed straight to the wine cellar - not that he and FW stopped to see the broken window.

This is what has been reported. However, no one knew Fleet had been down there before, not even John, it wasn't until he talked to Steve Thomas, that he said, "hey I opened that door and didn't see Jonbenet". This is my understanding according to Steve's book, but if you guys have different information on this, please share.

 

[twizzler333]

One thing that makes me believe she was actually killed in the house somewhere is the paintbrush. Seems to me like if they took her out of the house and killed her, then brought her back, their intent was to kidnap her but she was accidentally killed. Why would they take the paintbrush with them when they left?

That seems to be a bit odd to me. I believe she was killed in the basement and FW just didn't really look in that room well enough. Maybe the lighting was not quite as good since it was early morning and no light from other basement windows had yet creeped in there. Hard to say. Maybe he only looked in one direction in that room and then closed the door. He did say he could not find a light switch. Oh the mystery!

 

[BlueCrab]

John Ramsey and Fleet White searched the basemrnt together at about 1:00 P.M. (they found the body at 1:05 P.M.). The two of them went to the train room first to inspect the broken window, and then headed for the wine cellar. They didn't report a chair in front of the door to the train room.


When FW & JR searched the basement at 1 p.m. - I thought John headed straight to the wine cellar - not that he and FW stopped to see the broken window.

TLynn,

When John and Fleet went down to the basement at 1 P.M. they went to the broken window in the train room first, then headed for the wine cellar. From the 1998 interviews:

JOHN RAMSEY: So I went down to the basement. I went into this room with Fleet. I explained to him that this window had been cracked open and I closed it. That the window was broken, but I think it was broken by me once before. We got down on our hands and knees looking for some glass.

LOU SMIT: "Okay."

JOHN RAMSEY: "So we did that. I came back out here and went right to this room."

LOU SMIT: "So you left the train room?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "Right. I came right in here." (To the boiler room where the door to the wine cellar is also located.)

LOU SMIT: "Where is Fleet at this time?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "I assume he's behind me, but I don't have any recollection."

JMO

 

[sissi]

I find this odd...

quote from BC's post"JOHN RAMSEY: So I went down to the basement. I went into this room with Fleet. I explained to him that this window had been cracked open and I closed it. That the window was broken, but I think it was broken by me once before. We got down on our hands and knees looking for some glass"

Since the Ramseys had requested that window be fixed by Pugh, we don't really know if this break was John's or a new one. I think it would have served the BPD well, if they would have noted a pane change or marks indicating one.

 

[UKGuy]

twizzler333:

BlueCrab's analysis seems consistent to me. Pointing out JR's chair recollection would make it a jury clincher in part of a closing speech. But if the defense got a rebuttal in they may respond suggesting JR's recollection was correct but due to the stress and trauma, his memory was faulty and his recollection of the chair was from a visit, prior to events of the xmas night! So the apparent contradiction elicits an inference not a conclusion.

Now I've come to think that the paintbrush may be like the pineapple, not a big deal, but significant, because its difficult to pin down the location where she was killed.

To what extent is the use of the paintbrush part of the staging, or was it actually used to strangle Jonbenet? Or did the head trauma come first?

If the paintbrush is not part of any staging then like the pineapple, it tends to fix jonbenet's location at an assumed point in time.

If BlueCrab's BDI is generally correct then I think the body was moved from another location, and the staging done to disguise that?

Looks like the paintbrush might clear a few things up?

 

[sissi]

One thing that makes me believe she was actually killed in the house somewhere is the paintbrush. Seems to me like if they took her out of the house and killed her, then brought her back, their intent was to kidnap her but she was accidentally killed. Why would they take the paintbrush with them when they left?

That seems to be a bit odd to me. I believe she was killed in the basement and FW just didn't really look in that room well enough. Maybe the lighting was not quite as good since it was early morning and no light from other basement windows had yet creeped in there. Hard to say. Maybe he only looked in one direction in that room and then closed the door. He did say he could not find a light switch. Oh the mystery!

You may be right, however, if the killing device were fashioned in the basement ,and she was killed in the basement ,why were the fibers and such used in the construction of the device found on her bed, and the rest of the items missing.
I think the killer was in the house, took her and the killing device to the lair and left whatever items he didn't use "there".
I'm not sure I have enough information to say this, because there are things I do not know.
The nylon cord was burned only at one end, the other end is missing?
Part of the paint brush is missing?
The duct tape roll is missing?
It appears, jmo, that he was in the house for quite some time before the Ramseys came back from the Whites, broke the paintbrush, took the cord and items up to her room and waited for her ,hiding in JAR's bedroom. I think he kidnapped her and returned her dead. Things are missing because the crime didn't happen in that house. I find it hard to believe that he claimed such ownership to the rest of the roll, the cord and the paintbrush as to pack these up when he left.
An interesting side note...in yesterdays news..is this a garrotte?

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...ton+venetian+blind+cord+murder&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Can I request some homework..ya know I've checked mine, do any of you have venetion blind cords that show burned ends under the little plastic caps?

 

[K777angel]

I don't believe that the crime scene photos were even taken until AFTER it was discovered that it was a murder and not a kidnapping.

It's what's always bugged me about the "no footprints in the snow" spectacle.
If you look at the photos they show when bringing this topic up - it is a photo taken in broad daylight with crime scene tape all around the property! When the sun has been out for hours warming up the frost and snow on the lawn.
Taken after 1:05pm in the afternoon. NOT at 6:00am in the morning when it is still cold and dark out.

 

[BlueCrab]

I don't believe that the crime scene photos were even taken until AFTER it was discovered that it was a murder and not a kidnapping.

It's what's always bugged me about the "no footprints in the snow" spectacle.
If you look at the photos they show when bringing this topic up - it is a photo taken in broad daylight with crime scene tape all around the property! When the sun has been out for hours warming up the frost and snow on the lawn.
Taken after 1:05pm in the afternoon. NOT at 6:00am in the morning when it is still cold and dark out.

Angel,

That's correct. It did indeed snow that night, and when the cops got there at 6 A.M. the light dusting of snow had not yet melted AND THERE WERE NO FOOTPRINTS IN THE SNOW. The cops didn't lie. The temperature had dipped to 8 degrees that night. No one exited that house before the cops got there or their footprints would have shown up in the light dusting of snow.

By the time the sun had come up the residual heat in the ground had melted the light dusting of snow, leaving patches of the heavily crusted snow that were already there before the light snow fell that night.

The captioning of the pictures showing large areas of melted snow around the house and saying "See, the snow is melted, so the cops lied about no footprints." are a fraud. Those photos show the yard after the dusting of snow had melted and, as you point out, it's mid-morning and the sun is high up in the sky. The people who misleadingly labeled those photos knew better, making the captioning a fraud.

IMO the reason there was a ransom note AND a body in the house is because of the light dusting of snow. The snow would have revealed footsteps from the house and back again if they had carried the body outside. There was every intention of taking the body out of the house because the killer(s) had written a ransom note demanding money for JonBenet's safe return. But Mother Nature foiled their scheme with the fresh snowfall, trapping them inside the house with the note and their murdered victim. Mother Nature served up justice to the Ramseys inside of that house in the best way she knew how -- HARD EVIDENCE. The cops didn't lie about no footprints in the snow.

JMO

 

[Jayelles]

I don't believe that the crime scene photos were even taken until AFTER it was discovered that it was a murder and not a kidnapping.

It's what's always bugged me about the "no footprints in the snow" spectacle.
If you look at the photos they show when bringing this topic up - it is a photo taken in broad daylight with crime scene tape all around the property! When the sun has been out for hours warming up the frost and snow on the lawn.
Taken after 1:05pm in the afternoon. NOT at 6:00am in the morning when it is still cold and dark out.

You are right. When I hear the RST harping on about those photos proving that there was no snow, it makes me shake my head. It doesn't take a great deal of intelligence to work out that if the photos were taken later, and if the weather was mild enough for spiders to come out of hibernation and spin a web..... then there is a fair chance that the photos do NOT accurately reflect the snow covering recorded by the first officers on the scene.

Every so often, the RST come out of their burrows and rewrite the evidence in the Ramsey case.

The RST are currently over at Courttv stating as FACT that :-

1. Burke testified that JonBenet was asleep when they arrived home from the Whites and that she was carried upstairs.

2. There was no pineapple in Jonbenet's digestive system.

3. Pricilla White was never asked if she had served pineapple.

4. At the age of 6, parents are the LEAST likely killers of their children.

5. That the Grand Jury failed to indict the ramseys.

6. That the Ramseys have been exonerated by a Federal Judge.

etc etc.

http://board1.courttv.com/showthread.php?postid=4636656#post4636656


Why oh why do these people spin facts in a way that will make people smell a rat when they find out the full facts. They do the ramsey no favours at all when they do this. It just makes others feel they are dealing with dishonest people with something to hide.

(Reminds me of teenagers who tell half a story about something that happened in school. Then when you explode and say you are going to visit the school ... the full story emerges )