John & the Basement

Has FW ever seen any of these allegations and if so, has he ever commented on it? When you think about it, all of the allegations regarding JBR are common knowledge to anyone familiar with the case. The oversize underwear, the fact that someone was reported to have slept on JBR's bed in Charlevoix and left cowboy boots there, etc. (I think these were found to be JAR's, correct? He also wore cowboy boots).
I don't know anything about the Morgan Nick case. But I am assuming the alleged killer showed a photograph of a DEAD Morgan Nick, which would indicate he was either present to photograph the death or knew someone who was. No one has come forward with private photos of a dead or dying JBR. The photos we have are police crime scene or autopsy photos.
Even crackpot JMK only had "inside information' (Mary Lacy's words) that in reality was widely available on the internet and not even as accurate as what we already have.
 
Has FW ever seen any of these allegations and if so, has he ever commented on it? When you think about it, all of the allegations regarding JBR are common knowledge to anyone familiar with the case. The oversize underwear, the fact that someone was reported to have slept on JBR's bed in Charlevoix and left cowboy boots there, etc. (I think these were found to be JAR's, correct? He also wore cowboy boots).
I don't know anything about the Morgan Nick case. But I am assuming the alleged killer showed a photograph of a DEAD Morgan Nick, which would indicate he was either present to photograph the death or knew someone who was. No one has come forward with private photos of a dead or dying JBR. The photos we have are police crime scene or autopsy photos.
Even crackpot JMK only had "inside information' (Mary Lacy's words) that in reality was widely available on the internet and not even as accurate as what we already have.

I have heard the cowboy boots under the bed story....but, don't think that an intruder would have left without his shoes. My guess is that they were JAR's
 
This is yet another fantastic past thread, with a lot of great posts and posters. It is a wealth of knowledge and some information I have never seen or links that are not readily available any longer.

Most definitely a good read!! Here are but two examples:


I think it was purely an accident. Do you know how insane they had to be. How do you do something like this and not mess up. You can't. Just the act of carrying her to the basement is insane enough. How do you do that. I would rather face the music than defile her like that. I could not stand it. I know I could not stand carrying her to the basement, forget the rest, never happening. The two of them are incredible and that is not meant in a nice way. They did this thing to stay out of jail - because they knew that the head injury was going to look like she was violently pushed and they would be questioned. They could feel that crack in her skull - and they planned the rest.

We go along discussing this case or at least I do and every once in a while I realize the depravity of the whole thing and it is mind boggling that two people who had no history of this would succumb to taking care of themselves in the end rather than facing up to what happened and trying to save her. It is incredible.

Sample...Chapter One...Doc Miller's Book...".Prostitution of Justice".

From Chapter One, “Can you see my hand?”
CHAPTER 1: Can You See My Hand?

Quite clearly, she had reasons for what she had done and therefore could convince herself that she had done nothing wrong. That was why she passed the polygraph.

John Douglas, Mindhunter


On Christmas Night, 1996, six-year-old beauty princess, JonBenet Ramsey, was killed in the home of her parents in Boulder, Colorado. This is the story how and why the law failed, and continues to fail to address the facts and manner of her death.

The law in the United States, its Constitution of personal freedoms and protections, and the lawyers who administer it, all must take some responsibility for failed justice in the death of JonBenet Ramsey. In fact, this ancient legal system, clunks like an oxcart on an interstate highway, one justice for the rich – one justice for the poor. “The system” oozes a polluted mix of media, money, greed and political power when it merely pretends to address justice.

Had the law performed as envisioned a hundred years ago, even fifty years ago, John and Patsy Ramsey would have been tried for their apparent complicity in the death of JonBenet. Instead, their public relations maneuvers, their books and interviews, their lawsuits, and especially their lawyers, have squeezed pus from the blind eyes of justice.

As citizens, sane persons are asked to imagine the horror of JonBenet’s last moments over and over, thanks to the constant replay on tabloid television and in tabloid headlines. We look to our own consciences, our own obligations to our children, and cannot believe that John and Patsy, devout Christians and respected members of the community, could have been involved in such a crime. We saw Patsy raise her finger on national television and warn parents in Boulder, to “Hold your babies close. There’s a killer out there.” Her voice cracks and our hearts break as John methodically recounts how they were a “normal” family. Yet, we have seen photographs and videos of JonBenet, six years old, wearing glamour make-up, scantily clad as a Las Vegas showgirl. We must ignore these images in order to accept John’s freak show concept of “normal.”

The years go by. What was floated as a bizarre “intruder theory” begins to spark more attention than the actual evidence. The evidence includes the longest ransom note in history, written and found at the scene of the crime by the mother of the dead little girl. The Ramsey’s move to Atlanta, Georgia, recalling their beautiful daughter lovingly and pocketing a $600,000 advance on their book, The Death of Innocence. They then move to Charlevoix, Michigan, and John makes a failed run for the Michigan state legislature on an “I’m innocent” platform. They granted interviews every now and then, be it on Larry King or in the National Enquirer, or in church on Sunday. Their story changes as JonBenet’s brother, Burke, grows older – Oh Yeah! That’s right. Burke was awake at the time of Patsy’s phone call to 911 on the morning of December 26, 1996. His is the voice on the tape saying, “What’s happening? What do you want me to do?”

The cameras roll with Patsy crying, or preparing to cry, on the late night news. Years after the murder, we hear that John Ramsey was locked in a bathroom of his new mansion in Atlanta by a mysterious intruder posing as a workman. This makes the national headlines. “Good press, bad press, any press,” Patsy Ramsey often said. Yes, any press. John Ramsey seems prone to intrusion, and Patsy Ramsey seemed as though she invited it.

Hal Haddon, the genius of the Ramsey’s criminal defense team at Haddon, Morgan & Foreman, sequestered in his law office mansion in Denver’s Capitol Hill neighborhood, moved on to a fabulously wealthy NBA star, Kobe Bryant, and his firm won a dismissal of rape charges. Bryant’s victim was hounded to silence by the press coverage. The rest of the phalanx of the Ramsey’s criminal defense lawyers have moved on as well, to new cases, less notorious cases, profitable cases that attract less scrutiny from the press. The press has moved on. It broke camp the day Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter announced that the grand jury investigating the death of JonBenet Ramsey would not file charges. It would not issue a report. It would not release the original of the ransom note. And, according to Colorado law, the grand jurors would be silenced (on pain of contempt of court and/or felony charges) should they divulge any of the testimony or evidence they heard. With nothing left to report, the JonBenet Ramsey judicial inquiry, as well as the body of the child herself, would be abandoned! Next victim, please.

Tomorrow, and the next day, and the day after that, another little girl will by murdered by her mommy or daddy, brother, uncle, aunt, step-parent or guardian, maybe for bedwetting or crying too long, maybe for sexual pleasure or revenge because a new boyfriend doesn’t like small-voiced backtalk, maybe for convenience, maybe by accident. Her adult caretakers will be taken into custody, questioned separately, and lacking a reputation as “credible millionaires,” or any evidence pointing toward other suspects, one or both of them will be charged with murder. Their public defender will seek a plea bargain that spares their lives. The local DA will ask for the death sentence if he has strong enough evidence. The newspapers that tell lurid stories of kinky sex, child abuse and violence against murdered children will be used to light fireplaces, wrap fish or perhaps the glassware and dishes for a family moving to another Boulder. Their stories die, but, the JonBenet story doesn’t die.

The next little girl’s name will not become a household word synonymous with mystery, not if her parents are poor. The elements that keep JonBenet’s story and name alive, unlike that of most child victims, are those of mystery, incomprehensible evil, fairy tale and gothic titillation. Sadly, these elements deeply affecting the human psyche inevitably attract humor. When Saturday Night Live created a skit diffusing the horror of the story with its obviously ridiculous aspects including the behavior of police and parents, lawyers and media, John and Patsy threatened to sue. With their money adding to the appeal of the story is the bizarre role of the legal system, now used to silence critics and leave the American people increasingly to distrust and scorn their hope for equal justice. The legal system will grind on, freeing the rich and the guilty, sometimes the rich and the innocent; but very reluctantly the poor, regardless of guilt or innocence. Lawyers earn few fees from working stiffs and the poor.

The media will continue making “special” stories starring Lizzy Borden, the Lindbergh’s kidnapping, Patty Hurst, O.J. Simpson, Princess Diana , Michael Jackson and Ramsey “news” or “history” specials. The beauty princess’ murder is not quite so gory as that of Lizzy Borden’s parents, not so glamorous as the Lindbergh kidnapping, lacking a trial, but like those other trials and “crimes of the century,” hers is filled with curiosity, sexual innuendo and taboo.

Contrary to what Patsy Ramsey said and to some portrayals in the press, the little beauty princess didn’t enjoy the child beauty pageants in which her mother entered her. JonBenet didn’t lust for the competition, nor crave the endless lessons and practice. There were signs that she was growing increasingly apprehensive of her mother’s incessant pressure to compete. Her childhood friend, Lindsey Phillips, while visiting JonBenet, couldn’t help but notice the pageant trophies in JonBenet’s bedroom. “They're not really mine,” JonBenet confided in Lindsey. “They're more my Mom’s trophies.”

Patsy Ramsey had dyed JonBenet’s hair from a light brunette to blonde during their last summer in Charlevoix, Michigan, in 1996. Judith Phillips, Patsy’s former friend, immediately noticed the little girl’s blonde hair when the family returned to their 15th Street mansion in Boulder. She asked Patsy why she had dyed JonBenet’s hair.

“It was the hot summer sun in Charlevoix," Patsy claimed.

As a professional photographer who had photographed Patsy, JonBenet and Burke over the years, who had worked with numerous models sporting both natural and artificially colored coifs, Patsy’s lie seemed disingenuous. Judith attributed this to Patsy’s upbringing in the South where belles are born blonde, naturally, where cosmetics belie innocence and closets are built to hold family secrets.

Normal maternal expressions of love don't revolve around a five-year-old bleached blonde in satin hot pants. Patsy lied to Judith about JonBenet’s hair because she must have felt there was something socially unacceptable about the applications of artificial “beauty” inside their home to a supposedly perfect child. Her lie suggests a kind of embarrassment on her part for wanting to make her child more beautiful, more competitive, more fetching for the eyes of judges.

It was, in fact, Patsy’s talent for small and large deceptions, and the willingness of the Ramseys’ lawyers, and lawyers in general, to use larger and more consequential deceptions, that led in part to the failure of the investigation in the death of JonBenet. When the arts of deception are privileged, as they are in the case of wealthy citizens in America, all other Americans become potential victims. The self-deceptions of the prosecutor who says, “I don't make up the rules,” cops muted under the code of the blue brotherhood and the kind of finger pointing by plea bargains, all cheat the system. Journalists and bureaucrats listen, and bring all the tenderness of tarantulas to each new celebrity case. Defense lawyers, so conspicuously typical in the case of JonBenet, adopt the deceptions of their clients and drive the American jurisprudence system into one that allows the wealthy to ignore the law as prosecuting lawyers incarcerate more poor and uneducated suspects in the United States of America than any other nation ....
 
I have heard the cowboy boots under the bed story....but, don't think that an intruder would have left without his shoes. My guess is that they were JAR's

The boots were found at the Charlevoix house, not the Boulder house.
 
Thank you DeeDee, you are awesome at keeping facts straight, as you did in this thread and every other thread you post on!!
 
This thread was a good read..thanks for bumping it..I wonder if when John went to the basement earlier in the morning, he found JB and was stunned..Looked around and put the pieces together in his head that PR could have written the note and staged this. Personally, I think John was flabbergasted by the note.It is totally bizarre that an intruder would write that sort of note. Perhaps thats why he was upset when he went back upstairs. He may have let it sink in a bit and wondered how he was going to pull off "discovering" the body. He may have been so distracted by the mystery and what it was pointing to that he didnt notice the time the kidnapper was supposed to call. LA gave him the perfect opportunity and he made a beeline to the basement. Under this theory (which is one I personally think is possible), John realized in his head what must have happened while he was sleeping. He never asked Patsy, she never said anything and they continued to act like it was an intruder. It would explain why John seemed so inconsistent and willy nilly with his explanations, he was being careful not to implicate Patsy. I know it sounds bizarre but I think its possible John to this day wonders if Patsy did it and what happened. Thats maybe why he doesnt discuss it. I think Patsy was so upset and drugged up, he just never could bring himself to confront her..Or maybe he thought if he confronts her, she will blame him. For some reason I really think its just this silly. He never confronted her.
To me, its either that or BR was involved and the R's covered for him.
Or....its all nuts and there really was a freak pedophile intruder.
lol...I have no idea.; but Ive narrowed it down to 3 theories....generic as they are. I sure would like to talk to that Beth Holloway about John!!!
 
This thread was a good read..thanks for bumping it..I wonder if when John went to the basement earlier in the morning, he found JB and was stunned..Looked around and put the pieces together in his head that PR could have written the note and staged this. Personally, I think John was flabbergasted by the note.It is totally bizarre that an intruder would write that sort of note. Perhaps thats why he was upset when he went back upstairs. He may have let it sink in a bit and wondered how he was going to pull off "discovering" the body. He may have been so distracted by the mystery and what it was pointing to that he didnt notice the time the kidnapper was supposed to call. LA gave him the perfect opportunity and he made a beeline to the basement. Under this theory (which is one I personally think is possible), John realized in his head what must have happened while he was sleeping. He never asked Patsy, she never said anything and they continued to act like it was an intruder. It would explain why John seemed so inconsistent and willy nilly with his explanations, he was being careful not to implicate Patsy. I know it sounds bizarre but I think its possible John to this day wonders if Patsy did it and what happened. Thats maybe why he doesnt discuss it. I think Patsy was so upset and drugged up, he just never could bring himself to confront her..Or maybe he thought if he confronts her, she will blame him. For some reason I really think its just this silly. He never confronted her.
To me, its either that or BR was involved and the R's covered for him.
Or....its all nuts and there really was a freak pedophile intruder.
lol...I have no idea.; but Ive narrowed it down to 3 theories....generic as they are. I sure would like to talk to that Beth Holloway about John!!!
Very interesting Theory #1.
 
Good thread group! the fiber evidence points to both pieces of clothing the adult Ramsey's wore to the Whites, so IMO both were involved in staging and it happened before adults went to bed.
If you follow the long term behavior of JR, he always overdoes everything in terms of marketing and the intruder theory. Him running around in underware comments tell me something. It comes up alot and I dont believe it. he was dressed, just like JB was awake when they got home. everyone was awake imo.
Im sure this has come up before but I will throw it out there.Im sure after 14 years someone else has come up with this same idea.
Is it possible JAR is the digital molester when he is home from college/weekends. his blanket was probably home for the holidays for washing, downstairs in basement. I am not implying he was violent or trying to inflict pain but just exploring. He wasnt that mature thus the roughness. Patsy was suspicious of something thus the repeated doctor visits for JB, she knew something was up and the family confronted JAR and were dealing with it as a family, privately. Maybe Burke blamed JB for getting his big bro in trouble, being niave and not understanding why his older brother is in BIG trouble, chalks up resentment. Family is mortified. Family comes home from Whites, Burke and JB get dressed for bed, mom and dad are still up preparing for trip. kids come down for a snack, get into a big fight over who knows what and burke manually tries to strangle her and when she screams he cracks her head with something. parents come running and they send burke directly to bed and attend to JB. when they realize she is dead, they both decide to enact coverup. They bring JBR body down to basement. she is dressed in her PJs but her undies are dirty or she is in pull ups. Patsy wants to make her more dignified and remembers the undies in gift for Jennie. picks wed. john breaks paintbrush, keeps part and tells p to make some kind of sex neck thing. she makes the fake garrot to cover stangulation while john dresses her and makes her bleed to account for prior molestions pulls final cord to cover for burke while sending patsy away from horror and instructs her to write rn.. they need the rn to make sure BR is taken away from home so that he doesnt see his dead garotted sister brought up from basement.
This is also why they needed friends over. they needed someone to take bR out of house to protect him from the horror to come. Jr gets the shower and pr reapplies makeup, call cops and tell burke that a kidnapping has happened. So Ramseys are covering for both sons not each other.
 
Patsey 1998 interview http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm



1 what words you used, was it more than just John
2 or--
3 PATSY RAMSEY: I remember my voice
4 was just cracking. I mean it was like "John",
5 like that. I mean like, I can't even, you know,
6 I hear my scream and I hear his scream when he
7 came up from the basement, I mean it was just a

8 horrible thing. You know, it was just --


What the Fudge??? Was that a typo? Haney, never questioned it and Ive not heard this before... Does anyone here know about that statement by PR?
 
Patsey 1998 interview http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm



1 what words you used, was it more than just John
2 or--
3 PATSY RAMSEY: I remember my voice
4 was just cracking. I mean it was like "John",
5 like that. I mean like, I can't even, you know,
6 I hear my scream and I hear his scream when he
7 came up from the basement, I mean it was just a

8 horrible thing. You know, it was just --


What the Fudge??? Was that a typo? Haney, never questioned it and Ive not heard this before... Does anyone here know about that statement by PR?

Patsy's comment has been long discussed here, but probably not since you came aboard. Most agree that this was indeed a "slip"; her statement that JR "screamed as he came up from the basement" tells me that NEITHER parent went to bed that night, and adds to my "sibling did it" theories.

While we are on THAT subject, in response to another poster- yes, JAR has been much discussed as a possible perp in this case. While the presence of his dorm comforter with his semen on it in the basement suitcase may not be usable as evidence (semen can't be "dated" and its presence on a college boy's comforter would not be unusual). BUT- along with that suitcase was a CHILDREN'S book. THAT is certainly odd to be taking back and forth to college and that makes the whole suitcase/semen/comforter/kid's book suspicious to me.
 
Patsey 1998 interview http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm



1 what words you used, was it more than just John
2 or--
3 PATSY RAMSEY: I remember my voice
4 was just cracking. I mean it was like "John",
5 like that. I mean like, I can't even, you know,
6 I hear my scream and I hear his scream when he
7 came up from the basement, I mean it was just a
8 horrible thing. You know, it was just --


What the Fudge??? Was that a typo? Haney, never questioned it and Ive not heard this before... Does anyone here know about that statement by PR?

Haney let ALOT of things slip by without questioning further. BIG, BIG..MISTAKE. I think that she realized that she SLIPPED UP..and started rambling on saying..."I mean it was just a horrible thing. You know, it was just.." Yes, this has been discussed here alot of times...before your time though. LOL
 
Good thread group! the fiber evidence points to both pieces of clothing the adult Ramsey's wore to the Whites, so IMO both were involved in staging and it happened before adults went to bed.
If you follow the long term behavior of JR, he always overdoes everything in terms of marketing and the intruder theory. Him running around in underware comments tell me something. It comes up alot and I dont believe it. he was dressed, just like JB was awake when they got home. everyone was awake imo.
Im sure this has come up before but I will throw it out there.Im sure after 14 years someone else has come up with this same idea.
Is it possible JAR is the digital molester when he is home from college/weekends. his blanket was probably home for the holidays for washing, downstairs in basement. I am not implying he was violent or trying to inflict pain but just exploring. He wasnt that mature thus the roughness. Patsy was suspicious of something thus the repeated doctor visits for JB, she knew something was up and the family confronted JAR and were dealing with it as a family, privately. Maybe Burke blamed JB for getting his big bro in trouble, being niave and not understanding why his older brother is in BIG trouble, chalks up resentment. Family is mortified. Family comes home from Whites, Burke and JB get dressed for bed, mom and dad are still up preparing for trip. kids come down for a snack, get into a big fight over who knows what and burke manually tries to strangle her and when she screams he cracks her head with something. parents come running and they send burke directly to bed and attend to JB. when they realize she is dead, they both decide to enact coverup. They bring JBR body down to basement. she is dressed in her PJs but her undies are dirty or she is in pull ups. Patsy wants to make her more dignified and remembers the undies in gift for Jennie. picks wed. john breaks paintbrush, keeps part and tells p to make some kind of sex neck thing. she makes the fake garrot to cover stangulation while john dresses her and makes her bleed to account for prior molestions pulls final cord to cover for burke while sending patsy away from horror and instructs her to write rn.. they need the rn to make sure BR is taken away from home so that he doesnt see his dead garotted sister brought up from basement.
This is also why they needed friends over. they needed someone to take bR out of house to protect him from the horror to come. Jr gets the shower and pr reapplies makeup, call cops and tell burke that a kidnapping has happened. So Ramseys are covering for both sons not each other.

Sorry to repost my whole post, just wanted to add to it and I do want all RDI to comment. For some reason I havent been able to sleep for the past few weeks, so I lay in bed and wish I can bring justice for jb and those affected by RST. I have been open minded but if the evidence that is presented here on forum is true, I am RDI.
I have problems with some of the scenarios, such as:
PDI/Bedwetting. If PR did hurt JB over toliet issues I think she would have covered her tracks, such as flushing the poop in JB bathroom and picking up soiled undies that laid around. IMO no one went into JB bathroom, nothing happened there.
PDI/Jealous Rage. How did Jr fibers get into JB undies, he was suppose to be asleep under this scenario.
 
Sorry I wasnt done posting.
RDI, I dont think we can have JR not involved if we believe in the oversized underwear being staged. if we believe the gift for Jenny was unwrapped in basement to redress JB then JR is involved, because the fiber evidence tells us so.I wonder if the partially unwrapped gift was tagged.I also wonder if the maid ever saw the bloomie undies anywhere. This fiber evidence places JR in basement unless we believe PR ran upstairs while JR was sleeping, grabbed his shirt to frame him.
Were the other held back gifts in FAO Swartz gift wrap in deed meant for BR? That should be an easy call for BPD. just curious on this to see if PR was telling the truth.
I never understood why JR lawyered up his Atlanta family since JAR had solid alibi, but now maybe if he was the molester and someone even PR might tell to save herself or BR. Maybe that is why he needed to get to Atlanta asap to protect his oldest son.
I think the possible situation I stated covers alot of the evidence that has never made sense to me.
I know I said BR bashed her but it could be PR doing it and then in the RN threatening in code to tell on JAR if JR doesnt cooperate,
but this scenario doesnt explain BR odd detached behavior.
I have a hard time believing JR was the molester and PR found out and bashed JB instead because I just dont see the opportunity for JR being alone with her. He was always traveling, PR checked on her every evening cuz she had a bed wetting problem. I can suspect a Father, but I dont see an opportunity for him to get away with it, especially that evening with all the things still left for PR to do.
BR cant see him in a sexual way, maybe mean and could hurt her through violence but not digital penetration. I think she would have told on him.
So after many sleepless nights, I have a hunch that finally fits the evidence. P.S. the touch DNA does not rate as high as other evidence, IMO.
 
John speaks of his "first" trip to the basement. He speaks of entering the train room and finding the window ajar. He says he closes it and latches it.

Why did he not mention entering the other areas of the basement...like the laundry room, bathroom, boiler room and wine cellar?

He did not discuss those areas because he already knew where JonBenet was. I think Haney did a big disservice by not questioning John further.
 
Sorry I wasnt done posting.
RDI, I dont think we can have JR not involved if we believe in the oversized underwear being staged. if we believe the gift for Jenny was unwrapped in basement to redress JB then JR is involved, because the fiber evidence tells us so.I wonder if the partially unwrapped gift was tagged.I also wonder if the maid ever saw the bloomie undies anywhere. This fiber evidence places JR in basement unless we believe PR ran upstairs while JR was sleeping, grabbed his shirt to frame him.
Were the other held back gifts in FAO Swartz gift wrap in deed meant for BR? That should be an easy call for BPD. just curious on this to see if PR was telling the truth.
I never understood why JR lawyered up his Atlanta family since JAR had solid alibi, but now maybe if he was the molester and someone even PR might tell to save herself or BR. Maybe that is why he needed to get to Atlanta asap to protect his oldest son.
I think the possible situation I stated covers alot of the evidence that has never made sense to me.
I know I said BR bashed her but it could be PR doing it and then in the RN threatening in code to tell on JAR if JR doesnt cooperate,
but this scenario doesnt explain BR odd detached behavior.
I have a hard time believing JR was the molester and PR found out and bashed JB instead because I just dont see the opportunity for JR being alone with her. He was always traveling, PR checked on her every evening cuz she had a bed wetting problem. I can suspect a Father, but I dont see an opportunity for him to get away with it, especially that evening with all the things still left for PR to do.
BR cant see him in a sexual way, maybe mean and could hurt her through violence but not digital penetration. I think she would have told on him.
So after many sleepless nights, I have a hunch that finally fits the evidence. P.S. the touch DNA does not rate as high as other evidence, IMO.

RTC,
Yes the forensic evidence directly implicates both John and Patsy, but curiously not Burke unless you want to factor in the footprint somewhere?

One of my theories posits inter-generational abuse. Which neatly accomodates Don Paugh and JAR, also I do not rule out JonBenet's aunts.

Were the other held back gifts in FAO Swartz gift wrap in deed meant for BR? That should be an easy call for BPD. just curious on this to see if PR was telling the truth.
Yes, since I've posted in other threads on this issue, I'll leave out the verbatim text.


Two theories that are nice in the who did it sense e.g Patsy finding John assaulting JonBenet and Patsy losing her temper with JonBenet over bedwetting, are inconsistent with the forensic evidence and subsequent statements.

Did Burke kill JonBenet and the parents cover up? This is a distinct possibility, he was present in the house, but his motive remains unclear?

JonBenet may have been being molested by multiple people at different periods? This would account for her chronic internal injuries, it would also create conflict between any parent who was aware of the molestation e.g. Patsy and JonBenet.

So rather than bedwetting or Patsy walking in on John. Patsy may have been having an ongoing discussion with JonBenet regarding her behaviour towards adults and using the toilet, wiping herself down etc. I rather suspect this tension might be behind JonBenet making remarks at the party about her appearance, than her disagreement, whatever it was with Patsy prior to attending the White's party.

Could Patsy have become resentful towards JonBenet? Here is JonBenet asserting her autonomy, displaying sexualised behaviour when she has likely been told not to make such requests?

The wine-cellar staging is, after the size-12's, one of the biggest clues, because we know no intruder needs to construct a crime-scene, yet this is what occurred.

I reckon the staging is created to mask or hide either misguided staged sexual assault or the real thing.

Its not to hide the body because everyone knows it will be discovered eventually.

So it looks like both parents were aware that JonBenet had either been molested that night and on prior occassions by the same person or others unknown.

It is possible that John is completely innocent, but once he is made aware of the circumstances and the possible consequences. Schemes his way out of an extended family disaster, which might have included Burke?

In summary JAR need not have been acting alone, he might simply be a situational molestor?


.
 
John speaks of his "first" trip to the basement. He speaks of entering the train room and finding the window ajar. He says he closes it and latches it.

Why did he not mention entering the other areas of the basement...like the laundry room, bathroom, boiler room and wine cellar?

He did not discuss those areas because he already knew where JonBenet was. I think Haney did a big disservice by not questioning John further.

Haney let ALOT of things slide on by, that should have been questioned. Frankly, I think he was in the wrong line of work.
 
uk guy, I have never seen anything regarding what the contents of the basement gifts. Was there one for Jenny? was there left over wrapping paper the size of the bloomies outer package?

where can I read about this?
 
uk guy, I have never seen anything regarding what the contents of the basement gifts. Was there one for Jenny? was there left over wrapping paper the size of the bloomies outer package?

where can I read about this?

Unfortunately, no where. Nothing has been written about it.
 
Patsey 1998 interview http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm

1 what words you used, was it more than just John
2 or--
3 PATSY RAMSEY: I remember my voice
4 was just cracking. I mean it was like "John",
5 like that. I mean like, I can't even, you know,
6 I hear my scream and I hear his scream when he
7 came up from the basement, I mean it was just a

8 horrible thing. You know, it was just --


What the Fudge??? Was that a typo? Haney, never questioned it and Ive not heard this before... Does anyone here know about that statement by PR?

Woah, how could these people not have been arrested? Truly amazing. Agatha, this was before my time also and I am shocked!
 

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