John Ramsey on Oprah

[JMO8778]

Melody Stanton later recanted that,yes,but she sounded firm about it at first,and it appears to me she was frightened into doing so.she later moved out of Boulder,no one knows if that was why though.
Mr Barnhill across the st also later recanted his statement that he'd seen JAR walking across the yard earlier that day.his sighting was really an odd thing...no one said where he went to..ie-did he go in the house,did he bypass it,or did he get into a car,etc.very vague.

 

[angelwngs]

Something else that makes huge red flags wave is that JR and PR totally avoided each other. JR had to be told by LA to 'go get' PR after they found JB, before he even moved in her direction. At the F's he finally lay down beside her around 9 o'clock for a period of about 10 minutes and not one word was shared between them.

Now, look at Hillary Clinton's personality. Remember the obvious tension on camera between she and Bill after the ML scandle broke wide open and became so very public?

Hillary, like PR, both 'in charge, in your face, vocal, domineering personality types, yet both still 'needed' their male counterparts in order to complete their life plan. They both seemed to have their husbands right where they wanted them. In public it seemed almost a silent form of 'balckmail'. "I am here beside him, but I am not stupid. I know... and I AM the one actually in charge."

...and I think they both were 'actually in charge'. They both knew too much to be allowed to be anything otherwise, IMO.

 

[JMO8778]

that makes sense,good insight

 

[angelwngs]

Melody Stanton later recanted that,yes,but she sounded firm about it at first,and it appears to me she was frightened into doing so.she later moved out of Boulder,no one knows if that was why though.
Mr Barnhill across the st also later recanted his statement that he'd seen JAR walking across the yard earlier that day.his sighting was really an odd thing...no one said where he went to..ie-did he go in the house,did he bypass it,or did he get into a car,etc.very vague.

Yep. Last night I just reread Mr. Barnhills recanting of his JAR sighting statement. His recounted mannerisms and wording in that statement was odd. Help me with the timeline of him saying he saw JAR, please. Did he say he saw JAR prior to realizing the R's were throwing everyone they knew 'under the bus' or after?

What I reread last night sounded almost as if it was coming from an older guy almost laughing at himself a little and suggesting in his mannerisms, "You know how mixed up older folks can get at times.."

Did you get that same feeling from what he said?

 

[UKGuy]

I agree,I'm just wondering,how do you think he knew where to find the size 12's,or that they were there,ie-that Patsy had bought them?

as well as it doesn't make any sense for it to be a soiling rage incident!


..so it goes to follow,that whatever happened to JB..ie-the head injury..happened before Patsy came along and did her part of the staging,that would be the most logical assumption,correct?
but then that begs the question,why would Patsy help JR cover up this crime? if so then perhaps more than one reason came into play?

JMO8778,

I agree,I'm just wondering,how do you think he knew where to find the size 12's,or that they were there,ie-that Patsy had bought them?

Well lets assume Patsy knows the size-12's were in the basement, then she tells an interviewer that she purchased the size-12's, so the chain of custody for the size-12's start with Patsy and end on JonBenet. Now Patsy read or was told by Lou Smit et-al that size-12's were discovered on JonBenet. She confirms this at the start of the interview, so a consistent version of events might be: I purchased a pack of size-12's for my niece Jenny during a November trip to New York; no more need be said e.g. deflect responsibility onto alleged intruder. Yet instead she states she placed the size-12's into JonBenet's panty drawer, only to be told eventually that no size-12's were found in the drawer. Conclusion: Patsy is ignorant that the size-12's are missing?

I can imagine John and Patsy arguing over this one. She blaming him for keeping her out of the loop, and he criticising her for telling such a dumb story about the size-12's?

There is one possibility although unlikely. Patsy did place the size-12's into JonBenet's panty drawer but that John removed the pack and used a pair to redress JohnBenet? What seems unrealistic about this scenario is Patsy placing size-12's into JonBenet's drawer in the first place.

Since I think it was John who wiped JonBenet down and redressed her in both longjohns and size-12's. He must have had prior knowledge about the size-12's e.g. from the 24th Dec 1996, when he said he helped Patsy move xmas-gifts and load some onto his plane, maybe Patsy said just leave those behind thats underwear for Jenny. I must admit precisely how he knows is a mystery.

but then that begs the question,why would Patsy help JR cover up this crime? if so then perhaps more than one reason came into play?

Yes, either Patsy did it as per the Toilet Rage or similar, or Patsy is very aware of any prior abuse, for her to apply the garrote and duct-tape is something not many will want to believe, particularly if she is not involved in any acute violence towards JonBenet. Maybe Patsy had a dark side that none of us were aware of?

.

 

[JMO8778]

JMO8778,

Well lets assume Patsy knows the size-12's were in the basement, then she tells an interviewer that she purchased the size-12's, so the chain of custody for the size-12's start with Patsy and end on JonBenet. Now Patsy read or was told by Lou Smit et-al that size-12's were discovered on JonBenet. She confirms this at the start of the interview, so a consistent version of events might be: I purchased a pack of size-12's for my niece Jenny during a November trip to New York; no more need be said e.g. deflect responsibility onto alleged intruder. Yet instead she states she placed the size-12's into JonBenet's panty drawer, only to be told eventually that no size-12's were found in the drawer. Conclusion: Patsy is ignorant that the size-12's are missing?

I can imagine John and Patsy arguing over this one. She blaming him for keeping her out of the loop, and he criticising her for telling such a dumb story about the size-12's?

There is one possibility although unlikely. Patsy did place the size-12's into JonBenet's panty drawer but that John removed the pack and used a pair to redress JohnBenet? What seems unrealistic about this scenario is Patsy placing size-12's into JonBenet's drawer in the first place.

didn't the housekeeper say she'd seen them there? even so,if Patsy was going to wrap them to send to her niece,and she hadn't done so yet,then they may have been laying out somewhere,and he saw them.IF they were wrapped,then he might have walked in while Patsy was wrapping them,and he noticed them then.

Since I think it was John who wiped JonBenet down and redressed her in both longjohns and size-12's. He must have had prior knowledge about the size-12's e.g. from the 24th Dec 1996, when he said he helped Patsy move xmas-gifts and load some onto his plane, maybe Patsy said just leave those behind thats underwear for Jenny. I must admit precisely how he knows is a mystery.



Yes, either Patsy did it as per the Toilet Rage or similar, or Patsy is very aware of any prior abuse, for her to apply the garrote and duct-tape is something not many will want to believe, particularly if she is not involved in any acute violence towards JonBenet. Maybe Patsy had a dark side that none of us were aware of?

.

I think she does,it's apparent to me,but what if JR said,'you must help me cover this up,not only did you have prior knowledge of this,you encouraged it (if indeed she did),you will likely die from cancer in the near future,and I will go to prison,and BR will be sent to live with someone else and raised by them,should that happen'(?). that thought could have been more than she could stand.
I also think Patsy was all about appearances,and that would have been extremely embarrassing to her!

 

[JMO8778]

Yep. Last night I just reread Mr. Barnhills recanting of his JAR sighting statement. His recounted mannerisms and wording in that statement was odd. Help me with the timeline of him saying he saw JAR, please. Did he say he saw JAR prior to realizing the R's were throwing everyone they knew 'under the bus' or after?

I don't recall,sry.

What I reread last night sounded almost as if it was coming from an older guy almost laughing at himself a little and suggesting in his mannerisms, "You know how mixed up older folks can get at times.."

Did you get that same feeling from what he said?

yes,like he was trying to minimize what he'd said earlier.

 

[UKGuy]

didn't the housekeeper say she'd seen them there? even so,if Patsy was going to wrap them to send to her niece,and she hadn't done so yet,then they may have been laying out somewhere,and he saw them.IF they were wrapped,then he might have walked in while Patsy was wrapping them,and he noticed them then.

I think she does,it's apparent to me,but what if JR said,'you must help me cover this up,not only did you have prior knowledge of this,you encouraged it (if indeed she did),you will likely die from cancer in the near future,and I will go to prison,and BR will be sent to live with someone else and raised by them,should that happen'(?). that thought could have been more than she could stand.
I also think Patsy was all about appearances,and that would have been extremely embarrassing to her!

JMO8778,

didn't the housekeeper say she'd seen them there?

Not the bathroom drawer, but JonBenet's bedroom dresser drawer?

John must have known about the size-12's or come across them somehow. Why should Patsy lie in the manner she did, if she knew JonBenet had been redressed in the size-12's, makes you wonder if she knew that JonBenet's size-6's were probably removed too?

Looks like John was intent on deceiving Patsy with those size-12's, thats why the Wednesday pair becomes important, he knew that Patsy knew JonBenet was wearing a size-6 Wednesday pair, hence the swap? Makes you wonder if he did a search for a size-6 Wednesday pair came up with nothing then went for the size-12's, or just went for the size-12's right away simply because they had a Wednesday pair.

I think she does,it's apparent to me,but what if JR said,'you must help me cover this up,not only did you have prior knowledge of this,you encouraged it (if indeed she did),you will likely die from cancer in the near future,and I will go to prison,and BR will be sent to live with someone else and raised by them,should that happen'(?). that thought could have been more than she could stand.
I also think Patsy was all about appearances,and that would have been extremely embarrassing to her!

Yes , something along those lines. All very bizarre. I just wonder what Patsy really thought once she was told about JonBenet's chronic abuse, was silence simply part of the deal with John, or was she actively involved, I'm willing to accept some degree of ignorance on Patsy's part, now that I think John deliberately deceived her? That stuff about Patsy being due to expire, might have meant she could accept any guilt and sentence if she whacked JonBenet, and be able to reveal who had been molesting JonBenet, since her sentence would be short-lived? As you say it was all appearances, no pinstripe arrows for Patsy!


.

 

[BBB167893]

Yes , something along those lines. All very bizarre. I just wonder what Patsy really thought once she was told about JonBenet's chronic abuse, was silence simply part of the deal with John, or was she actively involved, I'm willing to accept some degree of ignorance on Patsy's part, now that I think John deliberately deceived her? That stuff about Patsy being due to expire, might have meant she could accept any guilt and sentence if she whacked JonBenet, and be able to reveal who had been molesting JonBenet, since her sentence would be short-lived? As you say it was all appearances, no pinstripe arrows for Patsy!


.

Maybe it's possible John convinced her it was all a lie.

 

[TinaD]

Or maybe John told her that Burke was responsible for JB's injuries, in order to get her to co-operate in the cover-up. He made sure there was evidence tying her to the cover-up so she couldn't later change her mind, if she realised his story about Burke didn't wash?

 

[angelwngs]

Humm. Interesting thoughts...

 

[angelwngs]

Don't you know ST went nuts over the blue dress comment!

PR found out about LE having knowledge of her wearing the same outfit to the White's dinner party. The R Team calls a press conference with selected press and what does PR wear? The same blue suit she wore on TV's CNN interview... Why? To give her lawyers ammunition against the information they had obtained about her wearing the same outfit on the 25th and th 26th and to be able to say, "See, Patsy often wears the same outfit multiple times in a row..."

That is why JR mentioned it on Oprah. He is STILL publically covering for Patsy. He must think if he says it often enough the public will take it as truth.

John Ramsey, if you are listening, the 'public' is not that STUPID and you are not even close to as intelligent as you believe yourself to be!

 

[UKGuy]

Don't you know ST went nuts over the blue dress comment!

PR found out about LE having knowledge of her wearing the same outfit to the White's dinner party. The R Team calls a press conference with selected press and what does PR wear? The same blue suit she wore on TV's CNN interview... Why? To give her lawyers ammunition against the information they had obtained about her wearing the same outfit on the 25th and th 26th and to be able to say, "See, Patsy often wears the same outfit multiple times in a row..."

That is why JR mentioned it on Oprah. He is STILL publically covering for Patsy. He must think if he says it often enough the public will take it as truth.

John Ramsey, if you are listening, the 'public' is not that STUPID and you are not even close to as intelligent as you believe yourself to be!

angelwngs,
mmm, John still considers what Patsy wore such a big deal, yet JonBenet is found wearing size-12 underwear, and he has no comment?

Maybe what Patsy wore is a bigger red flag than what we already think it is?

.

 

[UKGuy]

Maybe it's possible John convinced her it was all a lie.

SuperDave,
Possibly, but she then discovered somebody had removed the size-12's from the house, and nobody told her, because she told the investigators that she was the person who gave JonBenet access to the size-12's by placing them into her underwear drawer.

And she is also told by the investigators that someone had been molesting JonBenet. So it had to be a pretty good story John concocted to explain away missing size-12's and the abuse of his own daughter?


Looks more like parallel paths suggesting the PDI may be partially correct with John making his own contributions. Would Patsy decide to stage a wine-cellar homicide in the absence of John, or might she plumb for a bedroom assault? Does the wine-cellar staging look more like a molestation coverup or an abduction failure?

If Patsy was ignorant, at the time, of the size-12's on JonBenet maybe she was also ignorant about any acute vaginal injuries. I suspect John perpetrated much of that staging, what is indeterminate is just how Patsy was persuaded to garrote JonBenet?


.

 

[BBB167893]

SuperDave,
Possibly, but she then discovered somebody had removed the size-12's from the house, and nobody told her, because she told the investigators that she was the person who gave JonBenet access to the size-12's by placing them into her underwear drawer.

And she is also told by the investigators that someone had been molesting JonBenet. So it had to be a pretty good story John concocted to explain away missing size-12's and the abuse of his own daughter?

Sometimes a story is only as good as we need it to be.

Looks more like parallel paths suggesting the PDI may be partially correct with John making his own contributions. Would Patsy decide to stage a wine-cellar homicide in the absence of John, or might she plumb for a bedroom assault?

I figure he had some hand in it.

Does the wine-cellar staging look more like a molestation coverup or an abduction failure?

Looks like a molestation coverup; SUPPOSED to look like an abduction failure.

If Patsy was ignorant, at the time, of the size-12's on JonBenet maybe she was also ignorant about any acute vaginal injuries. I suspect John perpetrated much of that staging, what is indeterminate is just how Patsy was persuaded to garrote JonBenet?

I always thought that was her idea, inspired by John.

 

[SleuthyGal]

They're both culpable, IMHO. Unless one turned against the other (and Patsy were of course still alive), it's hard to know who did what, exactly. It appears they both had some hand in it and I would blame them equally and convict them equally.

 

[BBB167893]

They're both culpable, IMHO. Unless one turned against the other (and Patsy were of course still alive), it's hard to know who did what, exactly. It appears they both had some hand in it and I would blame them equally and convict them equally.

Unfortunately, from a legal standpoint you can't do that. That's the main reason why they were never charged.

 

[DeeDee249]

Unfortunately, from a legal standpoint you can't do that. That's the main reason why they were never charged.

I have never understood that. So all you have to do to get away with murder is have an accomplice? Only an eyewitness knows who did what. And the eyewitness in this case was the victim. Is this just in Oz? Oops- I mean Boulder?

 

[angelwngs]

I have never understood that. So all you have to do to get away with murder is have an accomplice? Only an eyewitness knows who did what. And the eyewitness in this case was the victim. Is this just in Oz? Oops- I mean Boulder?

Could Citizens for Justice for JonBenet sue them or JR in a Civil Suite?

 

[JMO8778]

that's why they should have both been arrested and interrogated, ASAP,and I don't mean the polite interviews they were given.and all clothing worn that day and the night before,turned over to LE.let them start talking and piece it together from there.