John's Bonus Check

[TTF14]

I'm still of the belief it was BR and for some reason (perhaps it was not accidental) they elaborately covered it up.

 

[RedLikeWineAgain]

Hi, Merry Christmas. I'm no expert on this case and my ideas are always revolving so I don't have any set theory. Looking at Patsy lately, I think pre-meditation makes more sense in a PDI scenario. Christmas day of all days? Everything is set for dramatic effect and friends are called over which suggests to me a cry for help/ attention.

I've read that the garrote wasn't complicated. If she was crafty, I think it would be easy enough.

Interesting. What do you believe the motive was for Patsy to intentionally murder JonBenet?

My thoughts on the garrote are different. I feel like the garrote is one of the only (if not THE only) things that would make sense for the ransom note to be from a "foreign faction". Garroting was more popular in countries outside of the U.S.--- and many years ago. I don't think your average non-military American was familiar with a garrote until The Case of JonBenet Ramsey aired in 2016. I know I wasn't and I'm married to a military man. In fact, I wouldn't think any U.S. military person under the age of 65 (and maybe even under 70) would be familiar with a garrote.....unless they're familiar with hired assasins and the like or have watched a lot of action movies, movies that show foreign executions, or mafia movies. But....I could be wrong. I'm certainly no expert.

Had you heard of garroting prior to 2016 when The Case of JonBenet Ramsey aired?

Yes, it looks simple enough to construct the one that was used on JonBenet but one would first have to be familiar with one and with how to make one. Youtube videos didn't exist in 1996.

 

[RedLikeWineAgain]

I'm still of the belief it was BR and for some reason (perhaps it was not accidental) they elaborately covered it up.

Well, it seems to be the only scenario that really makes any sense.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I'm still of the belief it was BR and for some reason (perhaps it was not accidental) they elaborately covered it up.

Patsy wrote the note. I don't believe Patsy killed her adored daughter, so we're left with John or Burke. Would Patsy have covered for John after he so brutally killed her little girl? Doubtful. Would John and Patsy staged a crime scene to protect their son, who murdered his sister in a fit of rage? For me, it's the only thing that has ever made sense.

 

[InstantProof]

Interesting. What do you believe the motive was for Patsy to intentionally murder JonBenet?

My thoughts on the garrote are different. I feel like the garrote is one of the only (if not THE only) things that would make sense for the ransom note to be from a "foreign faction". Garroting was more popular in countries outside of the U.S.--- and many years ago. I don't think your average non-military American was familiar with a garrote until The Case of JonBenet Ramsey aired in 2016. I know I wasn't and I'm married to a military man. In fact, I wouldn't think any U.S. military person under the age of 65 (and maybe even under 70) would be familiar with a garrote.....unless they're familiar with hired assasins and the like or have watched a lot of action movies, movies that show foreign executions, or mafia movies. But....I could be wrong. I'm certainly no expert.

Had you heard of garroting prior to 2016 when The Case of JonBenet Ramsey aired?

Yes, it looks simple enough to construct the one that was used on JonBenet but one would first have to be familiar with one and with how to make one. Youtube videos didn't exist in 1996.

I don't think I ever heard of a garrote by name before this case, but I'm sure I have seen them or alternate versions of them used in movies. The RN uses a lot of movie dialogue, so a strangulation device is another inspiration taken from a movie possibly? For someone to have been paying close attention to these sort of scenes makes me wonder about premeditation.
I think the motive could be a mix of a few things unraveling for Patsy at the time. Because I'm not 100% set on Patsy I don't want to speculate too much. There are good theories on this board about Patsy and premeditation in the days leading up to Christmas.

 

[RedLikeWineAgain]

I don't think I ever heard of a garrote by name before this case, but I'm sure I have seen them or alternate versions of them used in movies. The RN uses a lot of movie dialogue, so a strangulation device is another inspiration taken from a movie possibly? For someone to have been paying close attention to these sort of scenes makes me wonder about premeditation.
I think the motive could be a mix of a few things unraveling for Patsy at the time. Because I'm not 100% set on Patsy I don't want to speculate too much. There are good theories on this board about Patsy and premeditation in the days leading up to Christmas.

You know....that's an interesting point that if someone paid that close attention to those sort of scenes [in moves], it could point to premeditation. If anything, it causes me to really question the character of someone like that. And, yes, I agree that while we probably weren't familiar with the term "garrote" prior to The Case of JonBenet Ramsey, we have likely seen one used in movies. Well, these are great points. Thank you.

 

[fr brown]

I don't think I ever heard of a garrote by name before this case, but I'm sure I have seen them or alternate versions of them used in movies. The RN uses a lot of movie dialogue, so a strangulation device is another inspiration taken from a movie possibly? For someone to have been paying close attention to these sort of scenes makes me wonder about premeditation.
I think the motive could be a mix of a few things unraveling for Patsy at the time. Because I'm not 100% set on Patsy I don't want to speculate too much. There are good theories on this board about Patsy and premeditation in the days leading up to Christmas.

I believe the police suspect the idea for the garrote came from a book, "The Day After Tomorrow" by Allan Folsom. The device is mentioned in fairly close proximity to a mention of beheading. And there are a smattering of other ransom note words like "faction." ("Faction," "countermeasure," "tactics" and so on are common in this genre.)

I don't know what gave the police the idea to ask about this particular book. Maybe it was found in the home. Maybe someone on the force was a fan. Neither Ramsey claimed to be familiar with it.

 

[InstantProof]

I believe the police suspect the idea for the garrote came from a book, "The Day After Tomorrow" by Allan Folsom. The device is mentioned in fairly close proximity to a mention of beheading. And there are a smattering of other ransom note words like "faction." ("Faction," "countermeasure," "tactics" and so on are common in this genre.)

I don't know what gave the police the idea to ask about this particular book. Maybe it was found in the home. Maybe someone on the force was a fan. Neither Ramsey claimed to be familiar with it.

That's interesting because I could never understand why mention beheading in the RN if you stage a garroting, but if Patsy is under the impression that it can be used for that, then there you go.

 

[fr brown]

That's interesting because I could never understand why mention beheading in the RN if you stage a garroting, but if Patsy is under the impression that it can be used for that, then there you go.

I'm not saying she thought that, to be clear.

And the garrote at the crime scene was made out of cord similar to a shoelace. She would know it wasn't capable of beheading anyone.

 

[rojnish]

Hello All,
It has been years since I've visited this site. This is primarily in response to RedLikeWineAgain who seems interested in tossing about some theories. I have a theory that I developed years ago after reading Steve Thomas' book as well as a couple other books on JBR. Since then I have read more and watched the documentaries on television. My process has been to test my theory with each new fact that I learn, and thus far I have not been able to crush my theory. Again, I'm (re)new to this board so I don't mean to barge in or break established protocol, but if anyone is interested in exploring this with me I would be more than happy to lay it out and entertain ideas and questions. Happy New Year to all who celebrate it.

 

[sallye818]

Hello All,
It has been years since I've visited this site. This is primarily in response to RedLikeWineAgain who seems interested in tossing about some theories. I have a theory that I developed years ago after reading Steve Thomas' book as well as a couple other books on JBR. Since then I have read more and watched the documentaries on television. My process has been to test my theory with each new fact that I learn, and thus far I have not been able to crush my theory. Again, I'm (re)new to this board so I don't mean to barge in or break established protocol, but if anyone is interested in exploring this with me I would be more than happy to lay it out and entertain ideas and questions. Happy New Year to all who celebrate it.

Please share. I always like to hear theories on this case.

 

[RedLikeWineAgain]

Hello All,
It has been years since I've visited this site. This is primarily in response to RedLikeWineAgain who seems interested in tossing about some theories. I have a theory that I developed years ago after reading Steve Thomas' book as well as a couple other books on JBR. Since then I have read more and watched the documentaries on television. My process has been to test my theory with each new fact that I learn, and thus far I have not been able to crush my theory. Again, I'm (re)new to this board so I don't mean to barge in or break established protocol, but if anyone is interested in exploring this with me I would be more than happy to lay it out and entertain ideas and questions. Happy New Year to all who celebrate it.

Thank you for your reply. I'd love to hear your theory♥

 

[rojnish]

Thank you for your reply. I'd love to hear your theory♥

Thank you all for your warm welcome. Here is my long-held theory. JBR was a player in the child pageant world. There was reportedly thousands and thousands of dollars of pageant clothing, and some of PR's friends were becoming increasingly concerned about her investment in JBR's pageant success. Remember, PR and her sister were both "pageant queens" so this was a long-held family culture. These things can get out of hand as evidenced by the Texas Cheerleader Mom, Dance Moms, and Alana "Honey BooBoo" Thompson's Toddlers & Tiaras. It is important to stand out in the field, and one way to do that would be a publicity stunt (e.g., Jussie Smolet). Based on experiences of her friend William McReynolds aka "Santa Claus" who had a 9-year old daughter kidnapped on Christmas eve 1974, he helped Patsy stage a kidnapping for JBR. This seemingly harmless stunt would make national news and catapult JBR to stardom. I believe McReynolds hired someone, perhaps Michael Helgoth who was identified by Investigator Ollie Gray, to perform the caper. Helgoth reportedly told someone he stood to make "about 60K" (about half of $118K ransom request) for a job he had coming up. McReynolds was familiar with the house, including the basement which he reportedly toured with JBR during a house party shortly before the event. I imagine McReynolds let Helgoth into the house while the Ramsey's were at their friends' holiday party. I'm not sure about the ransom note, but perhaps Helgoth copied a note left by PR, or perhaps she wrote it ahead of time. Helgoth reportedly had a drug habit and perhaps took drugs that night, maybe even while he waited in the house, which likely affected his judgment. Helgoth also reportedly said he was interested to know what it would feel like to crack a skull. Helgoth was also alleged to have molested his girlfriend's daughter. I don't believe PR ever intended harm to come to her child, and JR likely just went along with PR's crazy scheme. This scenario would explain the Ramsey's strange behavior including: immediately calling cops, friends, etc. when the note clearly said they were being watched and those actions would ensure JBR's death, ignoring the time window of the expected phone call, arranging to leave town shortly after JBR's body was discovered, lawyering up, JR starting his search in the basement as opposed to JBR's room, etc. I reject the "cover up for BR" theory as I don't believe a parent would be able to mutilate one child's body to protect another, especially for an accidental death caused by an "unchargeable" 9 year old. That same holds for the "cover up for PR" theory. My idea bridges the gap between the "insider" and the "intruder" theories. I welcome challenges and questions but hope to avoid baseless criticism. For those who read to the end, thanks for listening.

 

[InstantProof]

Thank you all for your warm welcome. Here is my long-held theory. JBR was a player in the child pageant world. There was reportedly thousands and thousands of dollars of pageant clothing, and some of PR's friends were becoming increasingly concerned about her investment in JBR's pageant success. Remember, PR and her sister were both "pageant queens" so this was a long-held family culture. These things can get out of hand as evidenced by the Texas Cheerleader Mom, Dance Moms, and Alana "Honey BooBoo" Thompson's Toddlers & Tiaras. It is important to stand out in the field, and one way to do that would be a publicity stunt (e.g., Jussie Smolet). Based on experiences of her friend William McReynolds aka "Santa Claus" who had a 9-year old daughter kidnapped on Christmas eve 1974, he helped Patsy stage a kidnapping for JBR. This seemingly harmless stunt would make national news and catapult JBR to stardom. I believe McReynolds hired someone, perhaps Michael Helgoth who was identified by Investigator Ollie Gray, to perform the caper. Helgoth reportedly told someone he stood to make "about 60K" (about half of $118K ransom request) for a job he had coming up. McReynolds was familiar with the house, including the basement which he reportedly toured with JBR during a house party shortly before the event. I imagine McReynolds let Helgoth into the house while the Ramsey's were at their friends' holiday party. I'm not sure about the ransom note, but perhaps Helgoth copied a note left by PR, or perhaps she wrote it ahead of time. Helgoth reportedly had a drug habit and perhaps took drugs that night, maybe even while he waited in the house, which likely affected his judgment. Helgoth also reportedly said he was interested to know what it would feel like to crack a skull. Helgoth was also alleged to have molested his girlfriend's daughter. I don't believe PR ever intended harm to come to her child, and JR likely just went along with PR's crazy scheme. This scenario would explain the Ramsey's strange behavior including: immediately calling cops, friends, etc. when the note clearly said they were being watched and those actions would ensure JBR's death, ignoring the time window of the expected phone call, arranging to leave town shortly after JBR's body was discovered, lawyering up, JR starting his search in the basement as opposed to JBR's room, etc. I reject the "cover up for BR" theory as I don't believe a parent would be able to mutilate one child's body to protect another, especially for an accidental death caused by an "unchargeable" 9 year old. That same holds for the "cover up for PR" theory. My idea bridges the gap between the "insider" and the "intruder" theories. I welcome challenges and questions but hope to avoid baseless criticism. For those who read to the end, thanks for listening.

This theory reminds me of a Forensic Files episode where a man hired someone to break into his home to scare his wife so she would change her mind about not wanting to move from their safe small town to the city. For whatever reason (drugs?) the hired perpetrator went off script and raped and killed the wife and went on to kill himself a few weeks later. Your theory would fit well with some of my thoughts about premeditation and staging and the possible motive of attention. I was thinking recently that maybe the RN was meant to be given to someone to call and read over the phone ("Listen carefully") while the police are already there at the house, but I couldn't think of any way Patsy or John on their own hoped to achieve that. Your theory would make it a possibility.
My question would be, what was the plan for JB? Was this to play out like a real kidnapping experience for her? Would Patsy really put her through that? John going along with this would be my biggest stumbling block.

 

[RedLikeWineAgain]

Thank you all for your warm welcome. Here is my long-held theory. JBR was a player in the child pageant world. There was reportedly thousands and thousands of dollars of pageant clothing, and some of PR's friends were becoming increasingly concerned about her investment in JBR's pageant success. Remember, PR and her sister were both "pageant queens" so this was a long-held family culture. These things can get out of hand as evidenced by the Texas Cheerleader Mom, Dance Moms, and Alana "Honey BooBoo" Thompson's Toddlers & Tiaras. It is important to stand out in the field, and one way to do that would be a publicity stunt (e.g., Jussie Smolet). Based on experiences of her friend William McReynolds aka "Santa Claus" who had a 9-year old daughter kidnapped on Christmas eve 1974, he helped Patsy stage a kidnapping for JBR. This seemingly harmless stunt would make national news and catapult JBR to stardom. I believe McReynolds hired someone, perhaps Michael Helgoth who was identified by Investigator Ollie Gray, to perform the caper. Helgoth reportedly told someone he stood to make "about 60K" (about half of $118K ransom request) for a job he had coming up. McReynolds was familiar with the house, including the basement which he reportedly toured with JBR during a house party shortly before the event. I imagine McReynolds let Helgoth into the house while the Ramsey's were at their friends' holiday party. I'm not sure about the ransom note, but perhaps Helgoth copied a note left by PR, or perhaps she wrote it ahead of time. Helgoth reportedly had a drug habit and perhaps took drugs that night, maybe even while he waited in the house, which likely affected his judgment. Helgoth also reportedly said he was interested to know what it would feel like to crack a skull. Helgoth was also alleged to have molested his girlfriend's daughter. I don't believe PR ever intended harm to come to her child, and JR likely just went along with PR's crazy scheme. This scenario would explain the Ramsey's strange behavior including: immediately calling cops, friends, etc. when the note clearly said they were being watched and those actions would ensure JBR's death, ignoring the time window of the expected phone call, arranging to leave town shortly after JBR's body was discovered, lawyering up, JR starting his search in the basement as opposed to JBR's room, etc. I reject the "cover up for BR" theory as I don't believe a parent would be able to mutilate one child's body to protect another, especially for an accidental death caused by an "unchargeable" 9 year old. That same holds for the "cover up for PR" theory. My idea bridges the gap between the "insider" and the "intruder" theories. I welcome challenges and questions but hope to avoid baseless criticism. For those who read to the end, thanks for listening.

Wow. Thank you for sharing. That is very interesting. Very well thought out theory. And it could very well be. Do you recall back in the 90s when Wanda Holloway (is that the Texas Cheerleader Mom that you referenced?) was charged with trying to hire a hitman to kill the mother of her daughter's cheerleading rival? She was hoping the daughter of the murdered mother would be so grief-stricken that she wouldn't be able to compete against her daughter for the cheerleading squad. Talk about sick. Some of these mothers really take competition in these venues to the nth degree. I think many of them live vicariously through their daughters. Really sad.

I really never developed a theory about what happened to JonBenet. I didn't know what to believe. When The Case of JonBenet Ramsey aired back in 2016, what they presented made the most sense to me. But yours is pretty plausible and interesting. I need to read up about Michael Helgoth. I'm not all that familiar with him.

Thank you again for sharing your theory♥

 

[RedLikeWineAgain]

This theory reminds me of a Forensic Files episode where a man hired someone to break into his home to scare his wife so she would change her mind about not wanting to move from their safe small town to the city. For whatever reason (drugs?) the hired perpetrator went off script and raped and killed the wife and went on to kill himself a few weeks later. Your theory would fit well with some of my thoughts about premeditation and staging and the possible motive of attention. I was thinking recently that maybe the RN was meant to be given to someone to call and read over the phone ("Listen carefully") while the police are already there at the house, but I couldn't think of any way Patsy or John on their own hoped to achieve that. Your theory would make it a possibility.
My question would be, what was the plan for JB? Was this to play out like a real kidnapping experience for her? Would Patsy really put her through that? John going along with this would be my biggest stumbling block.

Good question! Would John go along with this???? What do we know about his character? Has there ever been any history of mishandeling of money at his business...or anything like that? Something to ponder.

 

[fr brown]

I believe the police suspect the idea for the garrote came from a book, The Day After Tomorrow by Allan Folsom. The device is mentioned in fairly close proximity to a mention of beheading. And there are a smattering of other ransom note words like "faction." ("Faction," "countermeasure," "tactics" and so on are common in this genre.)

I don't know what gave the police the idea to ask about this particular book. Maybe it was found in the home. Maybe someone on the force was a fan. Neither Ramsey claimed to be familiar with it.

Actually, I think it's likely that Donald Foster told the police about The Day After Tomorrow. That's kind of his thing.

 

[icedtea4me]

Patsy wrote the note. I don't believe Patsy killed her adored daughter, so we're left with John or Burke. Would Patsy have covered for John after he so brutally killed her little girl? <snip>

What if she was the one to have delivered the head bash in a moment of chaos and rage at JonBenet after having witnessed John and JonBenet together that night?

 

[fr brown]

How would anyone know whether or not Patsy "adored" her daughter? That's projection.

Mary Lacy who claimed to have read Patsy's psychiatric interviews said that Patsy showed no anger toward JonBenet and no tendency toward violence. Considering that these interviews are an opportunity for the interviewee to put her best foot forward (and get a favorable version of events on the record), Lacy's "praise" seems faint.