Jon Benet's vaginal injuries: the work of a crazed paedophile?

[Guy_in_Georgia]

She went to the gynacologist and had vaginal exams on numerous occasions, so that could explain why her vagina was enlarged.
Her paediatrician has always maintained that he/she (can't remember) never suspected sexual abuse

Whoa! Where did you read where JonBenet was taken to a GYN!! My daughter is 16 and still seeing a Pediatrician. Girls don't start seeing a GYN until they are 18 or thereabouts. The question should be why was the child taken to a GYN in the first place?

By the way, during visits to the Pediatrician, there is NO invasive examination. Quick visual, question and answer with the child/parent, end of story.

 

[JBean]

Can't remember? Please!

By the way, during visits to the Pediatrician, there is NO invasive examination. Quick visual, question and answer with the child/parent, end of story.

I think she means that she can't remember if it is a male or female doctor.

 

[Guy_in_Georgia]

I think she means that she can't remember if it is a male or female doctor.

Thanks, my apologies.

 

[JBean]

Thanks, my apologies.

Oh man, we all do it..no worries. Welcome Guy in Georgia.

 

[Guy_in_Georgia]

By the way, one noted Forensic Pathologist has stated publicly that if he was an emergency room physician, and was aware of the chronic inflammation within the childs' vagina (chronic meaning of long duration or frequent recurrence, over a long period of time), he would have definitely called the police to report sexual abuse of the child. If the physician who had been examining JonBenet before her death was aware of the repeated uncontrolled urination and bowel movements that were known to have been occurring (which often can be a result of sexual abuse), then the question is why is that physician not a common subject of this forum? Oh...there is such a stink of power and influence through-out this sordid tragedy.
Too many people have gotten away with incompetence, bad memories, poor police work, outright cover-ups (evidenced by the DA's actions or lack of) and outright lying.

 

[Tristan]

Guy_in_Georgia.....EXCELLENT POST!!!

 

[shoe_horn]

It's a real travesty G.I.G.

 

[lily]

By the way, one noted Forensic Pathologist has stated publicly that if he was an emergency room physician, and was aware of the chronic inflammation within the childs' vagina (chronic meaning of long duration or frequent recurrence, over a long period of time), he would have definitely called the police to report sexual abuse of the child. If the physician who had been examining JonBenet before her death was aware of the repeated uncontrolled urination and bowel movements that were known to have been occurring (which often can be a result of sexual abuse), then the question is why is that physician not a common subject of this forum? Oh...there is such a stink of power and influence through-out this sordid tragedy.
Too many people have gotten away with incompetence, bad memories, poor police work, outright cover-ups (evidenced by the DA's actions or lack of) and outright lying.

I have a child (my son) who took a long time to toilet train, he was still having accidents at school at ages 6 and 7. He was absolutely not abused, - wetting your pants does not mean you are being abused - its just something that happens with some kids.

If Jonbenet was being abused you would think the parents would try to hide it - not take her to a doctor about it.

 

[mysteriew]

Potty accidents at that age can be a sign of sexual abuse. But they can also be a sign of psychological problems of the child- and remember, JBR is said to have made the statement at Christmas that she didn't feel pretty and she was under a lot of pressure in the competitions for the beauty pagaents. Potty accidents can also be a sign of a physical problem. And no family pediatricians often won't do a more invasive examination. But they might refer to a specialist- and some gyns are also female urinary tract specialists. With who the Ramseys are, I can see the pediatrition hearing that JBR is having potty accidents- referring her to a specialist in a just in case/might as well check it out scenario.

 

[lovebites]

I don't think it's far fetched at all. I think it's quite possible that JonBenet died because her killer, out of frustration with his own inability to perform kept pulling the garrot tighter. The final act, hitting her with something with such force to fracture her skull could be the ultimate rage against his own failure.

I'm glad I'm not the only one whose wondered or at least pondered this. Exactly as you said - If he kept increasing the level of violence in the hopes of it exciting him enough to be able to perform and it wasn't working.....he could have "lost it".

 

[PagingDrDetect]

Originally Posted by lily
I have a child (my son) who took a long time to toilet train, he was still having accidents at school at ages 6 and 7. He was absolutely not abused, - wetting your pants does not mean you are being abused - its just something that happens with some kids.

If Jonbenet was being abused you would think the parents would try to hide it - not take her to a doctor about it.

JBR's problem was not normal bedwetting. Bedwetting is when a child past the age of toilet training will urinate in their sleep. JBR was not only wetting but deficating, and not just when she was asleep. This is an entirely separate issue than normal bedwetting and is a common sign of sexual abuse. JBR was taken to her pediatrician almost 30 times in a 6 month period with this problem and chronic vaginal infections. Her pediatrician was seriously negligent in not making the connection that this was most probably symptoms of sexual abuse and not referring her to a specialist or contacting authorities. He never even did an internal examination.

Obviously, whoever it was that was taking her to the pediatrician so often (probably Patsy) was unaware that JBR's symptoms clearly showed the possibility of sexual abuse. PR may have known about the abuse and may not have. In any case, she wanted the symptoms to stop and didn't seem inclined to question the pediatrician's estimation of their source.

 

[dingo]

JBR's problem was not normal bedwetting. Bedwetting is when a child past the age of toilet training will urinate in their sleep. JBR was not only wetting but deficating, and not just when she was asleep. This is an entirely separate issue than normal bedwetting and is a common sign of sexual abuse. JBR was taken to her pediatrician almost 30 times in a 6 month period with this problem and chronic vaginal infections. Her pediatrician was seriously negligent in not making the connection that this was most probably symptoms of sexual abuse and not referring her to a specialist or contacting authorities. He never even did an internal examination.

Obviously, whoever it was that was taking her to the pediatrician so often (probably Patsy) was unaware that JBR's symptoms clearly showed the possibility of sexual abuse. PR may have known about the abuse and may not have. In any case, she wanted the symptoms to stop and didn't seem inclined to question the pediatrician's estimation of their source.

A little girl with so many vaginal infections ends up dead with a garotte around her neck...of course we look at past medical history..where else do you look except the people which where close to her..her doctor is not going to say he thought there was prior history of abuse...the little girl is dead...if he saw something he should have reported it..too late now..he never done the proper exam to determine whether she was sexually abused or not.
What about the school nurse Jonnie B went to days before her murder...we havent heard from her..

 

[kazzbar]

JBR's problem was not normal bedwetting. Bedwetting is when a child past the age of toilet training will urinate in their sleep. JBR was not only wetting but deficating, and not just when she was asleep. This is an entirely separate issue than normal bedwetting and is a common sign of sexual abuse. JBR was taken to her pediatrician almost 30 times in a 6 month period with this problem and chronic vaginal infections. Her pediatrician was seriously negligent in not making the connection that this was most probably symptoms of sexual abuse and not referring her to a specialist or contacting authorities. He never even did an internal examination.

Obviously, whoever it was that was taking her to the pediatrician so often (probably Patsy) was unaware that JBR's symptoms clearly showed the possibility of sexual abuse. PR may have known about the abuse and may not have. In any case, she wanted the symptoms to stop and didn't seem inclined to question the pediatrician's estimation of their source.

I find it absolutely abhorrant that the pediatrician did not question the fact that JBR was haveing allthis vaginal trouble . How well was he doing his job.? If JBR had not come from a well do do family would he have just let all of these abuse indicators go? Patsy was stupid to not question why her daughter had all these indicators. I would be horrified if my young daughter was regresing in her toilet training for no good reason.Did'nt awful Nedra explain this away to the police by saying JBR had regressed because of Patsy's cancer. I think at some point JBR was sexually abused but I think it was from outside the Family.Possibly Father Xmas or someone associated with the Whites.

 

[UKGuy]

JonBenet's genital infections can be explained away as bedwetting and/or lax hygiene habits.

They can also be explained away as resulting from prior sexual abuse.

Remember the entrance to JonBenet's vagina was unduly enlarged for a girl of this age, that cannot be explained as an accident or resulting from any infection.

So one theory to explain all this might be, her death was originally an accident, but it was realized the prior sexual abuse would become known, so it was masked by a staged sexual assault?

Alternatively she was strangled whilst being sexually abused, possibly she refused or voiced her intention to tell someone e.g. 911 call, so she was silenced, the rest is a staged homicide to hide the prior sexual abuse.


.

 

[dingo]

JonBenet's genital infections can be explained away as bedwetting and/or lax hygiene habits.

They can also be explained away as resulting from prior sexual abuse.

Remember the entrance to JonBenet's vagina was unduly enlarged for a girl of this age, that cannot be explained as an accident or resulting from any infection.

So one theory to explain all this might be, her death was originally an accident, but it was realized the prior sexual abuse would become known, so it was masked by a staged sexual assault?

Alternatively she was strangled whilst being sexually abused, possibly she refused or voiced her intention to tell someone e.g. 911 call, so she was silenced, the rest is a staged homicide to hide the prior sexual abuse.


.

UKGuy where did you get the info about the entrance to JBs vagina being enlarged.
I havent heard that information before.....could you please link a source

 

[aussiesheila]

By the way, one noted Forensic Pathologist has stated publicly that if he was an emergency room physician, and was aware of the chronic inflammation within the childs' vagina (chronic meaning of long duration or frequent recurrence, over a long period of time), he would have definitely called the police to report sexual abuse of the child. If the physician who had been examining JonBenet before her death was aware of the repeated uncontrolled urination and bowel movements that were known to have been occurring (which often can be a result of sexual abuse), then the question is why is that physician not a common subject of this forum? Oh...there is such a stink of power and influence through-out this sordid tragedy.
Too many people have gotten away with incompetence, bad memories, poor police work, outright cover-ups (evidenced by the DA's actions or lack of) and outright lying.

The pediatrician has been discussed on this forum, but it was a while back and now many, many pages downstream. I have always been very suspicious of him, he was always reassuring Patsy it was perfectly normal for a child of six to be wetting the bed and she would grow out of it, that urinary tract infections were due to bubblebath and vaginal infections due to not 'wiping' properly. IMO the guy was a pedophile and was in league with the other pedophiles who IMO had been abusing JonBenet for 3 years. He appeared on a couple of television shows and was adamant that he never saw any sign whatsoever of sexual abuse with JonBenet. It was absolutely pitiful IMO and the guy should have been investigated for incompetence at the very least.

I would very much like to know how Patsy came to choose him as JonBenet's pediatrician. I wouldn't be surprised to find that she was directed to him by someone who had a vested interest in JonBenet being cared for by somone who was prepared to turn a blind eye to signs of sexual abuse.

 

[southcitymom]

Although I don't know much about the psychology of pedophiles, but could a pedophile also be a sexual sadist?

Pedophiles can absolutely also be sexual sadists. But in this case, I do not believe JBR was killed by a sexual sadist. Her body was not in bad enough shape - she wasn't hurt and tortured enough for it to be the work of a true sadist. I have talked about this on another thread.

 

[aussiesheila]

I don't think it's far fetched at all. I think it's quite possible that JonBenet died because her killer, out of frustration with his own inability to perform kept pulling the garrot tighter. The final act, hitting her with something with such force to fracture her skull could be the ultimate rage against his own failure.

I think JonBenet was killed because she gave out that incredible scream of pain when the paintbrush handle (or some other sharp object) was pushed up her vagina. I think one pedophile in sheer panic pulled the garotte too tight and accidentally strangled her. I think another pedophile, the sadistic one who had already used the paintbrush handle on her, in pure rage picked up a baseball bat to bash her over the head with the deliberate intention of killing her by crushing her skull.

 

[aussiesheila]

Potty accidents at that age can be a sign of sexual abuse.

Potty accidents can also be a sign of a physical problem. And no family pediatricians often won't do a more invasive examination. But they might refer to a specialist- and some gyns are also female urinary tract specialists. With who the Ramseys are, I can see the pediatrition hearing that JBR is having potty accidents- referring her to a specialist in a just in case/might as well check it out scenario.

You would have thought with JonBenet's history of genito-urinary tract problems, that her pediatrician would have done this wouldn't you, but no this one didn't. One wonders why.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I think JonBenet was killed because she gave out that incredible scream of pain when the paintbrush handle (or some other sharp object) was pushed up her vagina. I think one pedophile in sheer panic pulled the garotte too tight and accidentally strangled her. I think another pedophile, the sadistic one who had already used the paintbrush handle on her, in pure rage picked up a baseball bat to bash her over the head with the deliberate intention of killing her by crushing her skull.

The garotte did not function like that. It was not a noose knot that slides, it was a fixed knot - one which stayed in place once it was tied in place. This knot, called a double knot by Meyer in the autopsy, would not have been able to function as a breath control device as you like suggest. The person who tied it on her tied it on her good and tight, and there is no evidence that JonBenet ever struggled against it.

Addressing the pediatrician Dr Beuf - he has been discussed quite a bit on this board in the past. He was a personal friend of the Ramseys - he was there at the Ramsey house on the 26th and gave Patsy tranquilizers. I don't believe he can been relied upon to be impartial. I have no idea what he's talking about when he says he never suspected that JonBeent had been sexually abused. Her history of vaginal ailments goes beyond that of average girls and bubble bath irritation is not an acceptable answer. Maybe once, but more than that?

Patsy was the one taking JonBenet to the doctor all those times, and I think she had to know that something was wrong - she was the one making all of the appointments! Very interesting to me is the fact they never had JonBenet to a urologist. They dismiss their frequent visits to Dr Beuf as the advantage of having excellent health insurance, but I can't understand why they never thought JonBenet's issues warranted the advice of a specialist if they were so well covered. The conclusion I've come to is that Patsy knew someone was abusing JonBenet (if she wasn't the one doing it), Beuf had to at least suspect but kept quiet, and Patsy didn't want anyone else checking it out. Why else would you not take your daughter to a specialist when she has such problems with incontinence, including fecal issues?