JonBenét Ramsey Case: My Theory & Key Questions

IIRC the strength and leverage which would have been required in order to inflict the savage wounds on Jonbenet could not have been inflicted by Burke due to his small, slight stature. Various experts agree that the garrotte wounds were inflicted by a strong adult male. Apparently the garrotte cord was so deeply embedded in Jonbenet's neck that it wasn't visible initially. IIRC, this led to the belief that the garrotte was used as an instrument of torture. That poor little baby.

The bizarre note leads me to believe that some of the housekeeper's male family members perhaps should have been more carefully scrutinised before ruling them out. They had been at the Ramsey hime a few weeks prior to the crime, in order to get Christmas decorations out of storage, so would have had the opportunity to check the house's layout..BPD visited the housekeeper and requested the key to the Ramsey's house. She was unable to produce it claiming she couldn't remember where it was, due to the shock of learning of Jonbenet's murder. She was asked if she had writing materials similar to the ransom note on her home. She produced several identical notebooks and Sharpies. Her husband was asked about duct tape. He produced three rolls the same as that used on Jonbenet. One roll was unused. The housekeeper changed her story completely - initially stating how wonderful the Ramsey's were - then the complete opposite. IMO the situation may have been an extortion attempt gone wrong. JMO
How can you surmise if you don't know what was used as the murder weapon?
Was she tied up sitting on the floor?
BR was weeks away from 10 and per PR , he was tall for his age. Physics has more to do with inflicting injury than the age of the person inflicting the injury.
 
When the police recommended the house be searched JR couldn't control the narrative at that point. He had to be worried Fleet White would find her.
JR was used to being a driver not a passenger in my opinion. He stayed in control by finding her , staging the scene, and further contaminating the evidence. Also JR had been missing for gaps of time. No one can be sure where the body was at in a given span of time. The Ramseys lived in the home. No one was more familiar with it than the Ramseys themselves and previous occupants.
Further to your useful comment, the Ramsey’s added so much to the house after purchasing it that it’s unlikely anyone but they would have known it so well.
 
The Netflix documentary was full of lies. It was a love letter to John Ramsey.
There was no intruder.
Patsy wrote the note.
It's hard to decide where to start.
How about you tell me the number 1 thing that leads you to think there was an intruder. I'll show you the evidence that proves there was no intruder.
I have been following the case since day one. It's why I got into true crime discussions forums.
Thank you,
Tricia
I would really like to know details of evidence which proves there was no intruder. I would feel much more comfortable if I knew with certainty that such evidence existed.
IMO many Websleuthers have been "following the case since day one." Respectfully, If they disagree with you, that doesn't necessarily mean that they are mistaken.
From everything which I have researched, I haven't seen definitive evidence that there was no intruder. If there were, then people wouldn't be disagreeing. Everything which I have read to date is based on speculation not evidence. I am very happy to agree with you if this can be produced.
 
I would really like to know details of evidence which proves there was no intruder. I would feel much more comfortable if I knew with certainty that such evidence existed.
IMO many Websleuthers have been "following the case since day one." Respectfully, If they disagree with you, that doesn't necessarily mean that they are mistaken.
From everything which I have researched, I haven't seen definitive evidence that there was no intruder. If there were, then people wouldn't be disagreeing. Everything which I have read to date is based on speculation not evidence. I am very happy to agree with you if this can be produced.
You are asking for evidence of nothing, which is a non sequitur. It would be better, I think, to ask what evidence exists to support the possibility of an intruder. I have not learned of anything that stands close examination.
 
What I can do is show you what the Ramsey's claim is evidence of an intruder when it is nothing of the sort.
Let's start with the intruder coming through the basement window.
I would really like to know details of evidence which proves there was no intruder. I would feel much more comfortable if I knew with certainty that such evidence existed.
IMO many Websleuthers have been "following the case since day one." Respectfully, If they disagree with you, that doesn't necessarily mean that they are mistaken.
From everything which I have researched, I haven't seen definitive evidence that there was no intruder. If there were, then people wouldn't be disagreeing. Everything which I have read to date is based on speculation not evidence. I am very happy to agree with you if this can be produced.
Hi jjleroche,
Can you give me just one thing you feel points to an intruder? Just one. Let's start there.
Thank you,
Tricia
 
As I stated in my post yesterday, I previously alerted Websleuthers to extremely enlightening information regarding the Intruder Theory, which was provided by, and elaborated upon by a leading world expert in the field of criminal psychology.

That post was deleted by moderators, so of course, interested Websleuthers did not get to read it.
When I endeavoured to respond to your request for just one thing which points to an intruder, that post was also deleted.
Can you see my dilemma Tricia? I have endeavoured to respond appropriately to your request. I had, in my post pointed to a source - a leading global expert, who does indeed provide compelling explanation and analysis regarding scales of evil involved in the commission of this crime. He explains his analysis in a clear manner which is well beyond my skill level.
(As an aside, I noticed last week that an Australian forensic psychologist also weighed in on the IDI theory, and believes it to be the only realistic possibility.)

My dilemma is that I have tried to provide you, the proprietor of Websleuths with an answer. Unfortunately, the Websleuths organisation will not allow my response to be published, for reasons IMO which are ludicrously pedantic in this instance.
A world-renowned expert in the field of forensic psychology - incredibly well-credentialled, has provided answers which you seek. If T & C don't allow publication, perhaps Websleuths should consider exceptions when credentials of experts can be verified.
Frankly I have become very disillusioned with Websleuths. IMO there have been instances of blatant censorship in this case.
Bullying has become evident, and public comments made by yourself regarding the "nonsense" of the IDI theory (on the Youtube channel - yes the source which is not approved by Websleuths), is a serious slap in the face to Websleuthers who support the IDI theory. Websleuth posters provide value to your privately owned business, and accordingly deserve respect.
I will not be spending further time on this matter. It is evident that Websleuthers of my ilk are not valued.
 
Please understand you can't discuss moderation on these threads. It is against our rules. That's why your posts are being removed. You can't post a random podcast as proof. That's why your post was removed. You must post only approved sources such as mainstream media or law enforcemnt. We have rules on Websleuths and we ask that you please follow them.
I am not going to listen to some random unapproved podcast to try and figure out what you are trying to tell me.
I will ask you again, respectfully, give me one thing that you think points to an intruder. Is it the window in the basement? Is it the ransom note? Please give me one thing.
Thank you.
Tricia Griffith
Manager/Websleuths.com
 
Two points I wish to make here.

1) Apparently Websleuths doesn't see a problem with publishing a post directed at me, containing offensive language - clearly a breach of T & Cs (and when I reported it, my completely inoffensive post was deleted along with the poster's (and when I have complained about that, I have been informed that you will get back to me. (This has not occurred, even after over a fortnight's delay.)
It therefore seems to me that "the rules" are applied very selectively. This adversely affects the credibility of Websleuths IMO,

2) In previous posts, excluding information from mainstream sources, I have already, on numerous occasions, addressed each of the points for which you seek further information (some of which have been deleted, even though they have not contravened Terms & Conditions). I see no reason for me to continue to spend time providing input, for the benefit of your own business, particularly when I have been distressed by Websleuths' lack of interest in my being targeted with abuse.

I completely understand that it could be very onerous/time-consuming for you to try to establish points made in a specific podcast which was mentioned. It may be much quicker for you to read the relevant transcript.

I find it incredibly alarming that Websleuths podcasts about this case display an obvious lack of objectivity. To be clear, I have worked very successfully as a government investigator over many years, and have seen how terrible mistakes can be made when objectivity is not at the foundation of any investigation. I have previously referred to the damage which can be done when public views are influenced by distorted information or omission of information, fed by emotion. People wanted to believe "Lindy did it".(Refer Lindy Chamberlain, Australia, 1982.)
After spending three years incarcerated, away from her young children whose lives were put into agonising turmoil, evidence of a fatal dingo attack on the infant Azaria was discovered in the environs of a dingo lair. Lindy had been speaking the truth.

I further note that comments in your podcasts in effect, throw shade on any Websleuther who happens to express concern about the RDI theory. Websleuths benefits from input of (most) members. In fact, without members, Websleuths would not exist. The fact is that, until such time as there is definitive proof as to who committed Jonbenet Ramsey's murder, the views of any of us may turn out to be right, or wrong.
 
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You are asking for evidence of nothing, which is a non sequitur. It would be better, I think, to ask what evidence exists to support the possibility of an intruder. I have not learned of anything that stands close examination.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. And we have never learned of any credible evidence of an intruder that stands up to close evaluation. The OP said, "From everything which I have researched, I haven't seen definitive evidence that there was no intruder. If there were, then people wouldn't be disagreeing". And the same can be said of the intruder theory, I have never seen any definitive, incontrovertible evidence that there was an intruder. So one can continue to say that if there were, people would not be disagreeing.

I am going to go out on a limb here and surmise (assume) that the OP's reference to "enlightening information" regarding an intruder comes from the thoughts of a criminal psychologist after combing through the ransom note. I have seen several such analyses by credible experts, however an analysis even by someone well respected in their field is just that.....an analysis, an educated opinion. And while it may be based upon years of experience, it isn't proof of anything. It remains an educated opinion. We can point to a few persons involved in this case who at the time were considered leading experts in their fields, well respected with proven track records. Their work on this case has been questioned, and rightly so. If we're going to talk about objectivity, we need look no further than Lou Smit who became so convinced of the Ramsey's innocence simply by holding hands with JR while praying, which led him to concentrate his efforts on making evidence fit to his beliefs rather than remaining objective. He was fed by emotion as are many who believe IDI, that emotion leads them because they cannot fathom that parents could do what was done to JB. It's the same principle that the OP discusses, so yes we can agree that the best course is to depend upon and follow the actual evidence, the facts of this case. And there simply is not credible evidence to support the IDI theory.

Further, the analyses that I have seen come from examination of the verbiage in the ransom note and the references that are specific to JR. FBI special agent and profiler John Douglas adhered to the theory that it was someone that JR worked with who was very angry with him. This also seems to be a prevailing opinion of the analyses by criminal psychologists that I have seen. But IMO there are some big holes in this theory. JR has put forth two opinions on who the perpetrator of this crime may have been. The first was that it was an inside job. The other was that it was some "creature", a crazed pedophile. He has gone back and forth over the years as to which it might be. I think we can all agree that those are two very different profiles.

If we are to believe that this "mystery intruder" was someone known to JR, IMO that's a stretch to believe. Whoever this person was had to be very familiar with and comfortable in the home, knowing exactly how to navigate the difficult and cluttered layout and where things were located in the home. This implies that it was someone who had been in the home more than a few times, and someone whom JB was most likely well acquainted with. JR did point some fingers early on to some colleagues that he felt might be unhappy with him. These persons were investigated and cleared. IMO it's quite a giant leap to allegedly being unhappy with JR and some of his decisions, to planning to assault and murder his daughter. That's a level of anger, psychopathy and evil that surely would be noticed by others this person interacts with. That just doesn't happen overnight. IMO if someone were that angry with JR, it would be hard to hide. Usually when someone is so angry with you that they are enraged, you know about it. Someone knows about it.

The other option that JR presents is the crazed pedophile, but again this has to be someone familiar enough with the family and the house layout to navigate that night. For this theory, we are asked to believe that this person had broken into the house multiple times to become familiar and was actively watching them. And yet the neighbors, who had proven to be at least somewhat aware of the comings and goings never saw anyone who kept turning up when the Ramseys weren't around. And again referring back to the ransom note, the familiarity exhibited by the use of such terms as "fat cat", "good southern common sense", and "don't try to grow a brain" imply personal knowledge. The movie quotes are also a clue that whoever is the note's author was trying very hard to sound like a real kidnapper. Kidnappers who want the financial payoff and pedophiles have different motives, are after different results and rarely cross into the same territory. Pedophiles rarely commit their crimes in the home of the victim, they would take her elsewhere and then abandon her when they were done. Kidnappers are in and out with the victim and would never leave such a ridiculously long note written in the house while they were waiting.

And here we are 29 years later and there have been no hits to the DNA sample in CODIS, no one has ever talked or made an admission to anyone else (other than false confessions like Oliva and JMK), and no truly specifically similar crime has ever been committed to our common knowledge. Those whom the Ramseys pointed to as possible suspects all stepped up immediately to cooperate with LE and were cleared. Maybe it was a one-off. Another theory that's a little difficult to swallow. Criminals are typically repeat offenders, especially if they have committed crimes and gotten away with it.

Is this proof that there could not have been an intruder that did this? No, of course not. This is my opinion based upon what I have observed and researched over the years about this case. Just as John Douglas has his opinion, and criminal psychologists have their opinion based upon their analyses. And while many of these opinions are well educated and offered by experts who have appropriate educational backgrounds, they too have no credible or undisputed evidence that proves their theories. That's the big dilemma on these theories, is it not? The IDI theory has no evidential proof to say unequivocally and beyond reasonable doubt that there was an intruder that night. Conversely, we also cannot say with 100% certainty that there was not an intruder.

The evidence that there is while circumstantial, IMO points to a family member or members. Questions remain as to why the Ramseys withheld their cooperation from police. Questions remain as to why they misrepresented details and continue to do so. They have not been forthcoming, they have not been completely honest or transparent. We are left with what we finally learned that the GJ concluded, which for whatever reasons they DA sought to hide from the public. The GJ saw evidence that we have not. They did not buy the IDI theory even though Lou Smit was allowed to present that theory with his powerpoint presentation. They returned a total of four indictments, two for each parent. And while some choose to argue that they were not indictments for murder therefore proof of nothing, I would argue that the GJ saw that the parents were indeed responsible for the death of JB.
 
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Just wanted to tack on to @CloudedTruth 's post. (I'm bored)

The only "evidence" of an intruder is the story of the intruder that was either SA, or attempting to SA that other girl that was a couple of miles away. - That's not evidence, it's a story. It is interesting though. That girl went to some of the same functions that JB did. - Same type scenario (likely) of them waiting in the house for them to return and then attempting SA on that other girl. -- That's about the best evidence of IDI that I have come across. Enough to say "that is interesting" .... but it's not evidence.

Also, I keep coming back to the point that as much we debate back and forth on here, even Law Enforcement, including the FBI was ultimately torn between IDI, and RDI.

And my point is not that IDI or that RDI, my point is that when multiple seasoned Law Enforcement is split on what happened --- something is seriously wrong somewhere.

Also, I truly don't think it was a "hurt John" type scenario. That makes no sense to me. It makes no sense because by all accounts, John was traveling a lot, and JB was Patsy's crown jewel, not Johns. If murdering JB was designed to hurt someone, it would be Patsy, not so much John.

Also, IMHO, the crime on JB was so vile..... that usually indicates rage, and it was personal. Somehow, someway, it was personal, and then some for good measure. Sometimes I don't know what to think.

But the GJ indictments that went unsigned do speak volumes....in more ways than one, imho.
 
Also, I keep coming back to the point that as much we debate back and forth on here, even Law Enforcement, including the FBI was ultimately torn between IDI, and RDI.
<snipped for focus>
Before being taken off the case when it went from kidnap to homicide, FBI recommended that BPD look to the parents. Was there a later FBI assessment I’m forgetting? And are you including ex-FBI profiler (and Ramsey hire) John Douglas in this?

BPD seemed to land on the family. See Thomas, Kolar, et al. Are you including Ramsey advocates like Lou Smit and DA Mary Lacy in “Law Enforcement?”
 
Before being taken off the case when it went from kidnap to homicide, FBI recommended that BPD look to the parents. Was there a later FBI assessment I’m forgetting? And are you including ex-FBI profiler (and Ramsey hire) John Douglas in this?

BPD seemed to land on the family. See Thomas, Kolar, et al. Are you including Ramsey advocates like Lou Smit and DA Mary Lacy in “Law Enforcement?”
Both the vast majority of the BPD and the FBI were in the RDI camp. I think it's worth noting that the reputations of John Douglas and Lou Smit took big hits from their association and defense of the Ramseys. I would include Hunter and Lacy except that their reputations were questionable even before this case, in particular Lacy. She was literally a joke as DA and Hunter never met a case he wanted to prosecute. The amount of criminals he let loose with plea bargains in and of itself was criminal IMO.
 
Just wanted to tack on to @CloudedTruth 's post. (I'm bored)

The only "evidence" of an intruder is the story of the intruder that was either SA, or attempting to SA that other girl that was a couple of miles away. - That's not evidence, it's a story. It is interesting though. That girl went to some of the same functions that JB did. - Same type scenario (likely) of them waiting in the house for them to return and then attempting SA on that other girl. -- That's about the best evidence of IDI that I have come across. Enough to say "that is interesting" .... but it's not evidence.

Also, I keep coming back to the point that as much we debate back and forth on here, even Law Enforcement, including the FBI was ultimately torn between IDI, and RDI.

And my point is not that IDI or that RDI, my point is that when multiple seasoned Law Enforcement is split on what happened --- something is seriously wrong somewhere.

Also, I truly don't think it was a "hurt John" type scenario. That makes no sense to me. It makes no sense because by all accounts, John was traveling a lot, and JB was Patsy's crown jewel, not Johns. If murdering JB was designed to hurt someone, it would be Patsy, not so much John.

Also, IMHO, the crime on JB was so vile..... that usually indicates rage, and it was personal. Somehow, someway, it was personal, and then some for good measure. Sometimes I don't know what to think.

But the GJ indictments that went unsigned do speak volumes....in more ways than one, imho.
Agree. A note about the other girl.......

From what I have read, the association with JB was minimal. They took some dance classes at the same studio. The other girl was older than JB by more than a few years. The entire "story" after investigated became somewhat questionable. From a PI whom the father hired to investigate after apparently being "disappointed" in the police investigation, he could establish no connections between that case and the Ramsey case (neither could BPD). In a press conference held by this PI, he said that the mother would "entertain" male friends at the house when the husband/father was out of town. He implied that the person in the house that night was known to the mother (he did know the daughter's name). There was also apparently some weirdness that occurred when BPD was still investigating and were questioning friends of the daughter. Allegedly the father was upset with that for some reason, and asked BPD to stop. If all of this is true, it isn't surprising that this case went nowhere. JR however still brings it up occasionally when disparaging the BPD as "incompetent". The fact that the case went nowhere and the father of the other girl essentially let it fade away seems to indicate that there really was nothing there.

I would add that there is not much available information to be found about this case. The girl's name (for obvious reasons) was kept anonymous during the investigation, she was referred to as "Amy" IIRC. Since that time the father's name was revealed. The dance studio is no longer in business. When they interviewed the owner and people who worked there, there was not much to be learned. The class that JB took was apparently held upstairs and in a room where there would not be random visitors watching. It all seems conveniently fishy IMO.
 
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Before being taken off the case when it went from kidnap to homicide, FBI recommended that BPD look to the parents. Was there a later FBI assessment I’m forgetting? And are you including ex-FBI profiler (and Ramsey hire) John Douglas in this?

BPD seemed to land on the family. See Thomas, Kolar, et al. Are you including Ramsey advocates like Lou Smit and DA Mary Lacy in “Law Enforcement?”

Answering your questions: Later FBI assessment? No. Not that I'm aware of.

Re: John Douglas and am I including him in my thought process? Along with Lou Smit as "Law enforcement?" - Yes. I am. (More on that in a minute)

DA Mary Lacy? No.

John Douglas and Lou Smit were both retired "Law Enforcement" - Perhaps I should have said "retired Law enforcement"

I understand both of them were on the Ramsey payroll. I totally understand that. This is only my opinion but I simply cannot see either one of those men being "paid off" by crooks - to have the crooks say what they (the crooks) wanted them to say in public.

One of them?? Did one of them sell their souls to the Ramseys for money? Possibly. But *BOTH* of them???? They are not stupid men. They were smart enough to figure out what I have figured out and what is obvious..... had they stood up for the Ramseys , and it turned out later that the Ramseys were guilty as sin beyond any reasonable doubt.... both of those men would have had their entire careers destroyed instantly. -- They knew that. -- But they went to bat for the Ramseys anyway because, IN MY OPINION, that is what they really believed. I can respect that, while disagreeing with their conclusions.

I am aware most of the Law enforcement, including BPD believed RDI. So do I.

But I also believe in the basic integrity of John Douglas and Lou Smit......in the sense that I don't believe they were "bought and paid for" to tell a story they didn't believe. So with that, I have to take John Douglas and Lou Smit at face value and believe that *THEY BELIEVE* it indeed was an intruder.

Which is a head scratcher. But, here we are....... Like I said, sometimes I don't know what to think.
 
Answering your questions: Later FBI assessment? No. Not that I'm aware of.

Re: John Douglas and am I including him in my thought process? Along with Lou Smit as "Law enforcement?" - Yes. I am. (More on that in a minute)

DA Mary Lacy? No.

John Douglas and Lou Smit were both retired "Law Enforcement" - Perhaps I should have said "retired Law enforcement"

I understand both of them were on the Ramsey payroll. I totally understand that. This is only my opinion but I simply cannot see either one of those men being "paid off" by crooks - to have the crooks say what they (the crooks) wanted them to say in public.

One of them?? Did one of them sell their souls to the Ramseys for money? Possibly. But *BOTH* of them???? They are not stupid men. They were smart enough to figure out what I have figured out and what is obvious..... had they stood up for the Ramseys , and it turned out later that the Ramseys were guilty as sin beyond any reasonable doubt.... both of those men would have had their entire careers destroyed instantly. -- They knew that. -- But they went to bat for the Ramseys anyway because, IN MY OPINION, that is what they really believed. I can respect that, while disagreeing with their conclusions.

I am aware most of the Law enforcement, including BPD believed RDI. So do I.

But I also believe in the basic integrity of John Douglas and Lou Smit......in the sense that I don't believe they were "bought and paid for" to tell a story they didn't believe. So with that, I have to take John Douglas and Lou Smit at face value and believe that *THEY BELIEVE* it indeed was an intruder.

Which is a head scratcher. But, here we are....... Like I said, sometimes I don't know what to think.
For what it's worth, I don't believe that Douglas and Smit were "bought and paid for" either. But I do think they were both used by the Ramseys.

Lou Smt's reputation IMO was rather inflated. His major trait was his doggedness, which as a detective is a good trait to have. However it isn't necessarily a special gift, anyone can choose to just keep going, to keep digging. Probably the most well publicized case that he was involved in was that of Heather Dawn Church. It was actually one of his team who found the print that ultimately solved the case. Smit had no issue taking credit for that, perhaps his ego got the best of him.

When Smit came to work on the Ramsey case, he was diligent in combing through all the files and crime scene pictures. He noted certain things and asked questions. He became doggedly convinced that there was an intruder, even though most of his theories could be disproved. They lacked the proof needed. Lou based his belief in the Ramseys innocence on the feeling he got while holding JR's hand during a prayer session in his van, that the parents' could not possibly be involved. In past cases his "gut instinct" drove him to keep digging for evidence / proof. In this case, his instinct lead him to try to make evidence fit his pre-conceived conclusion. He lost his objectivity. After his death, his family vowed to keep investigating using the material he had left behind. Last I heard there were around 800 people on his list that needed to be cleared. With a list that long I would imagine many of those people have already been cleared by BPD, so it is again just a rehash which of course could possibly result in something having been missed, but that feels like a long shot. His granddaughters had started doing a podcast dedicated to the case, but that ended up fizzling out. Perhaps the family has finally figured out despite his doggedness, there just isn't the evidence that points to an intruder.

John Douglas is similar in that he seems to have abandoned his professional experience to go with emotions instead of evidence. In an article in the Denver Post, journalist Chuck Green pointed out, "There's an old adage that goes something like this: Actions speak louder than words. In the criminal field, there's a time-tested twist to the adage: Behavior is more telling than words". John Douglas seems to have veered away from that. He was quoted in a Dateline NBC interview saying that "his heart" tells him that the Ramseys were not involved. He based his conclusion on his 4 1/2 hour joint interview with both JR and PR. He went on to say that if JR is a liar, he's one of the best. Now that's an assessment I can agree upon.

Notably, the first FBI profiler that the Ramseys approached was Gregg McCrary, not John Douglas. He turned them down. He pointed out what he felt were mistakes made by Douglas. A key mistake was not interviewing them separately. This meant that he could not lock them individually into statements that you later compare. That's fundamental for profiling to be valid. "Top notch profilers always put more weight on behavior than words. The behavior of the offender is much more telling than what he says later". McCrary went on to say he had spoken to guilty offenders in the penitentiary, and how some of them were so manipulative and persuasive they almost have you believing in their innocence. He brings up quite a few points that soundly dispute Douglas's theory of a disgruntled JR employee being the perpetrator. John Douglas was also drawn in by the Ramseys just like Lou Smit was. Another case of having lost the objectivity needed to look at this case with the expertise both men were previously known for.
 
For what it's worth, I don't believe that Douglas and Smit were "bought and paid for" either. But I do think they were both used by the Ramseys.

Lou Smt's reputation IMO was rather inflated. His major trait was his doggedness, which as a detective is a good trait to have. However it isn't necessarily a special gift, anyone can choose to just keep going, to keep digging. Probably the most well publicized case that he was involved in was that of Heather Dawn Church. It was actually one of his team who found the print that ultimately solved the case. Smit had no issue taking credit for that, perhaps his ego got the best of him.

When Smit came to work on the Ramsey case, he was diligent in combing through all the files and crime scene pictures. He noted certain things and asked questions. He became doggedly convinced that there was an intruder, even though most of his theories could be disproved. They lacked the proof needed. Lou based his belief in the Ramseys innocence on the feeling he got while holding JR's hand during a prayer session in his van, that the parents' could not possibly be involved. In past cases his "gut instinct" drove him to keep digging for evidence / proof. In this case, his instinct lead him to try to make evidence fit his pre-conceived conclusion. He lost his objectivity. After his death, his family vowed to keep investigating using the material he had left behind. Last I heard there were around 800 people on his list that needed to be cleared. With a list that long I would imagine many of those people have already been cleared by BPD, so it is again just a rehash which of course could possibly result in something having been missed, but that feels like a long shot. His granddaughters had started doing a podcast dedicated to the case, but that ended up fizzling out. Perhaps the family has finally figured out despite his doggedness, there just isn't the evidence that points to an intruder.

John Douglas is similar in that he seems to have abandoned his professional experience to go with emotions instead of evidence. In an article in the Denver Post, journalist Chuck Green pointed out, "There's an old adage that goes something like this: Actions speak louder than words. In the criminal field, there's a time-tested twist to the adage: Behavior is more telling than words". John Douglas seems to have veered away from that. He was quoted in a Dateline NBC interview saying that "his heart" tells him that the Ramseys were not involved. He based his conclusion on his 4 1/2 hour joint interview with both JR and PR. He went on to say that if JR is a liar, he's one of the best. Now that's an assessment I can agree upon.

Notably, the first FBI profiler that the Ramseys approached was Gregg McCrary, not John Douglas. He turned them down. He pointed out what he felt were mistakes made by Douglas. A key mistake was not interviewing them separately. This meant that he could not lock them individually into statements that you later compare. That's fundamental for profiling to be valid. "Top notch profilers always put more weight on behavior than words. The behavior of the offender is much more telling than what he says later". McCrary went on to say he had spoken to guilty offenders in the penitentiary, and how some of them were so manipulative and persuasive they almost have you believing in their innocence. He brings up quite a few points that soundly dispute Douglas's theory of a disgruntled JR employee being the perpetrator. John Douglas was also drawn in by the Ramseys just like Lou Smit was. Another case of having lost the objectivity needed to look at this case with the expertise both men were previously known for.
Further, Douglas admitted he never studied the evidence available at the time, not even the autopsy report.
 
Answering your questions: Later FBI assessment? No. Not that I'm aware of.

Re: John Douglas and am I including him in my thought process? Along with Lou Smit as "Law enforcement?" - Yes. I am. (More on that in a minute)

DA Mary Lacy? No.

John Douglas and Lou Smit were both retired "Law Enforcement" - Perhaps I should have said "retired Law enforcement"

I understand both of them were on the Ramsey payroll. I totally understand that. This is only my opinion but I simply cannot see either one of those men being "paid off" by crooks - to have the crooks say what they (the crooks) wanted them to say in public.

One of them?? Did one of them sell their souls to the Ramseys for money? Possibly. But *BOTH* of them???? They are not stupid men. They were smart enough to figure out what I have figured out and what is obvious..... had they stood up for the Ramseys , and it turned out later that the Ramseys were guilty as sin beyond any reasonable doubt.... both of those men would have had their entire careers destroyed instantly. -- They knew that. -- But they went to bat for the Ramseys anyway because, IN MY OPINION, that is what they really believed. I can respect that, while disagreeing with their conclusions.

I am aware most of the Law enforcement, including BPD believed RDI. So do I.

But I also believe in the basic integrity of John Douglas and Lou Smit......in the sense that I don't believe they were "bought and paid for" to tell a story they didn't believe. So with that, I have to take John Douglas and Lou Smit at face value and believe that *THEY BELIEVE* it indeed was an intruder.

Which is a head scratcher. But, here we are....... Like I said, sometimes I don't know what to think.
I didn’t say Smit was “bought and paid for,” nor that he was even a Ramsey hire, though he became “Team Ramsey” after that infamous prayer session to which CloudedTruth refers. Douglas was a hire, which I stated without using the pejorative “bought and paid for.” We do not put words in each others’ mouths here.
 
How can you surmise if you don't know what was used as the murder weapon?
Was she tied up sitting on the floor?
BR was weeks away from 10 and per PR , he was tall for his age. Physics has more to do with inflicting injury than the age of the person inflicting the injury.
Could that cord have been placed around her neck, (IMO she could have been squirming around when that ligature was being constructed around her neck - hence the hair being intertwined in knots and handle) initially, when JB was alive, prior to that cord being tightened and she refused to cooperate - tried to escape but the cord was held by her assailant- and she was struck on her skull as a method of control and frustration? There were two chairs in the basement? Or even in her bedroom…Rendered unconscious panic ensued…
The triangular shaped abrasion on the front of her neck, some pathologist believe was a pressure bruise from the collar of her shirt being twisted into her neck. If that is accurate - that is a concrete sign IMO of confrontation and control/threat. She also had other bruises on her body…
Don’t know about the plausibility of what is evident forensically about how that asphyxiation was done.. over a period of time or all at once.
But that cord could have been placed around her neck at any time prior to strangulation.,,
 
The Netflix documentary was full of lies. It was a love letter to John Ramsey.
There was no intruder.
Patsy wrote the note.
It's hard to decide where to start.
How about you tell me the number 1 thing that leads you to think there was an intruder. I'll show you the evidence that proves there was no intruder.
I have been following the case since day one. It's why I got into true crime discussions forums.
Thank you,
Tricia
Who do you think killed her Tricia? Do you think it was BR?
 

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