JonBenet Ramsey Documentary

[awillis0513]

What this does show of course is what a horrible crime this was. With all the other cold cases being solved recently it would be good for this one to be solved as well and JonBenet get her voice from the grave so to speak and justice at last.

Indeed. However, there’s a few parts of the autopsy that have always stuck out to me. I often hear the theories revolving around pedophilia or those that center around the motive of the crime being related to sexual abuse. But when I’ve read other autopsy reports of victims of similar ages that were known to have been raped, and the findings of those read entirely different.

JonBenet’s autopsy does refer to a sexual assault occurred that night and other evidence has led experts to say she did experience chronic abuse. However, other victims’ autopsies reflect extremely detailed trauma that clearly show the sexual nature of the crime.

The Cherish Perrywinkle case is an example of this. Perrywinkle was abducted by an acquaintance of her mother’s during a trip to Wal-Mart. Her killer brutally raped her before strangling her. Forensic Examiner Dr. Valerie Rao testified, “Looking at her genital area and her anal area, she had so much trauma, the anatomy was totally distorted by the injury that she sustained both to her vaginal area and her anus.” We don’t see that level of trauma reflected in the autopsy report.

I do believe JonBenet was a victim of sexual assault, don’t get me wrong. Also, that sexual abuse is horrific. But, in my opinion, the sexual assault was an ongoing event and not necessarily the focus of this crime. The idea that a pedophile would break in and only leave evidence reflecting to experts that JonBenet was not raped doesn’t make sense to me.

With that information, I reject the theory that this was the work of a pedophile. It just doesn’t make sense.

Again, this is my opinion. Others are entitled to disagree, but I just call it how I see it.

JonBenet Ramsey Case Encyclopedia / Evidence of Prior Sexual Abuse

 

[awillis0513]

Sadly, I don’t believe it will ever be known who killed this child. If on his death bed, JR says he did it, he could be lying to cover for BR. Or not. Who would know if truth was being told? Besides, whatever he knows, his pride would likely prevent him from speaking, if in fact he knows.

I believe some members of the original investigation, primarily from the district attorney’s office have a better idea about who did this that they’re not disclosing. I don’t know why else they would protect so much of the Grand Jury testimony and evidence if there wasn’t someone involved that was worth protecting.

If the CBS documentary’s theory is accurate, and the Grand Jury chose what to indict accurately, there isn’t a legal remedy left for this case. The statute of limitations is up for John’s charges. Patsy is dead, but hers would be, as well. Burke couldn’t be charged due to his age. So, we’d be at the end of this case.

 

[archieil]

Exactly, two world renowned forensic scientists and the autopsy report. Those are my sources. Thank you.

Sources for Burke likings and for the information about the number of pineapples eaten.

You seem to mix some popular or not such popular beliefs and knowledge/information from experts.

I was not testing it myself but pineapples and milk are not working together. You need a stomach for this mix.

 

[jaejae]

I believe some members of the original investigation, primarily from the district attorney’s office have a better idea about who did this that they’re not disclosing. I don’t know why else they would protect so much of the Grand Jury testimony and evidence if there wasn’t someone involved that was worth protecting.

If the CBS documentary’s theory is accurate, and the Grand Jury chose what to indict accurately, there isn’t a legal remedy left for this case. The statute of limitations is up for John’s charges. Patsy is dead, but hers would be, as well. Burke couldn’t be charged due to his age. So, we’d be at the end of this case.

My initial feeling all those years ago when I was younger at the time of the crime was it might be an inside job as such. Then I studied the case and thought I had found a good suspect for an intruder who may have entered through the window. Now I am not so sure about any intruder and am open to other theories. The one thing I am certain about is Burke was not responsible but then I suppose bottom line I do not know.

 

[UKGuy]

Indeed. However, there’s a few parts of the autopsy that have always stuck out to me. I often hear the theories revolving around pedophilia or those that center around the motive of the crime being related to sexual abuse. But when I’ve read other autopsy reports of victims of similar ages that were known to have been raped, and the findings of those read entirely different.

JonBenet’s autopsy does refer to a sexual assault occurred that night and other evidence has led experts to say she did experience chronic abuse. However, other victims’ autopsies reflect extremely detailed trauma that clearly show the sexual nature of the crime.

The Cherish Perrywinkle case is an example of this. Perrywinkle was abducted by an acquaintance of her mother’s during a trip to Wal-Mart. Her killer brutally raped her before strangling her. Forensic Examiner Dr. Valerie Rao testified, “Looking at her genital area and her anal area, she had so much trauma, the anatomy was totally distorted by the injury that she sustained both to her vaginal area and her anus.” We don’t see that level of trauma reflected in the autopsy report.

I do believe JonBenet was a victim of sexual assault, don’t get me wrong. Also, that sexual abuse is horrific. But, in my opinion, the sexual assault was an ongoing event and not necessarily the focus of this crime. The idea that a pedophile would break in and only leave evidence reflecting to experts that JonBenet was not raped doesn’t make sense to me.

With that information, I reject the theory that this was the work of a pedophile. It just doesn’t make sense.

Again, this is my opinion. Others are entitled to disagree, but I just call it how I see it.

JonBenet Ramsey Case Encyclopedia / Evidence of Prior Sexual Abuse

awillis0513,
Prior evidence of sexual abuse means just that, i.e. it is historical. Three doctors, including Coroner Meyer stated that JonBenet had been sexually assaulted at the time of her death.

Coroner Meyer offered these verbatim remarks during the autopsy:

12-29-1996 Search Warrant, Boulder, Colorado 15th Street, excerpt

Det. Arndt informed Your Affiant that Dr. Meyer stated to her that he observed red stains in the crotch area of the panties that the child was wearing at the time that the child's body was subjected to the external visual examination. Dr. Meyer stated to Det. Arndt that the red stain appeared to be consistent with blood. Det. Arndt further informed the Affiant that Dr. Meyer stated to her that after examining the panties (as described above), he observed the exterior pubic area of the child's body located next to the areas of the panties containing the red stains and found no visible reddish stains in that area. Dr. Meyer stated to Det. Arndt that his opinion is that the evidence observed is consistent with the child's pubic area having been wiped by a cloth.

i.e. staging

and

12-29-1996 Search Warrant, Boulder, Colorado 15th Street, excerpt

Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she witnessed the autopsy of JonBenet Ramsey which was conducted by Dr. John Meyer on December 27, 1996. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she observed Dr. Meyer examine the vaginal area of the victim and heard him state that the victim had received an injury constant with digital penetration of her vagina. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that Dr. Meyer told her that it was his opinion that the victim had been subjected to sexual contact. For further details on the autopsy see the attached document entitled Addendum To

i.e. a sexual assault

Also ...
Foreign Faction by James Kolar, Excerpt

Following the meeting, Dr. Meyer returned to the morgue with Dr. Andy Sirontak, Chief of Denver Children’s Hospital
Child Protection Team, so that a second opinion could be rendered on the injuries observed to the vaginal area of JonBenét.

He would observe the same injuries that Dr. Meyer had noted during the autopsy protocol and concurred that a foreign object had been inserted into the opening of JonBenét’s vaginal orifice and was responsible for the acute injury witnessed at the 7:00 o’clock position.

Further inspection revealed that the hymen was shriveled and retracted, a sign that JonBenét had been subjected to some type of sexual contact prior to the date of her death.

Dr. Sirontak could not provide an opinion as to how old those injuries were or how many times JonBenét may have been
assaulted and would defer to the expert opinions of other medical examiners.

So what do you think, was JonBenet sexually assault on the night of her death?

.

 

[awillis0513]

Sources for Burke likings and for the information about the number of pineapples eaten.

You seem to mix some popular or not such popular beliefs and knowledge/information from experts.

I was not testing it myself but pineapples and milk are not working together. You need a stomach for this mix.

John Ramsey said in an interview with police that, indeed, both of his children liked pineapple. I don’t know why he’d lie about that or say it if it weren’t accurate. Source: http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-John-Interview-Complete.htm

Also, you must not be from where Patsy is from (or perhaps you have a weak stomach), because pineapple and milk (or cream) is a snack enjoyed in Appalachia, especially in the part of West Virginia where Patsy was from.

My family is from nearby Hazard, Kentucky, also eats milk and fruit. Peaches and milk or pineapple and milk tend to be their more favorite combinations with a few teaspoons of sugar on top. Many times they used milk instead of cream because previous generations were dirt poor and couldn’t afford cream usually. So, milk was the next best thing and it’s what they were used to eating.

Also, have you ever heard of a Dole Whip? The version from a local hamburger stand around here is blended frozen pineapple,whole milk, and a bit of honey. It’s fabulous.

I know what you’re saying about people getting confused about “popular opinions.” It’s a popular opinion, apparently, that milk with pineapple isn’t a real snack people eat and it’s a popular opinion that JonBenet had fruit cocktail.

 

[awillis0513]

awillis0513,
Prior evidence of sexual abuse means just that, i.e. it is historical. Three doctors, including Coroner Meyer stated that JonBenet had been sexually assaulted at the time of her death.

Coroner Meyer offered these verbatim remarks during the autopsy:

12-29-1996 Search Warrant, Boulder, Colorado 15th Street, excerpt

i.e. staging

and

12-29-1996 Search Warrant, Boulder, Colorado 15th Street, excerpt

i.e. a sexual assault

Also ...
Foreign Faction by James Kolar, Excerpt


So what do you think, was JonBenet sexually assault on the night of her death?

.

I do think she was penetrated with the paintbrush, possibly. I know there is evidence of fluids and specks of blood being present in and near her genitalia, though the fluids were never shown to be semen. Whether she was assaulted before or after her death as a part of the staging, I’m not sure.

 

[UKGuy]

From childhood one of my favorite snacks has been condensed milk and pineapple, which is what I think is what JonBenet ate shortly before her death.

Just tinned stuff for me though, those small tins of pineapple rings and branded condensed milk.

I've tried it with fruit cocktail variety but the juice dilutes the condensed cream and makes it far too syrupy.

.

 

[awillis0513]

My initial feeling all those years ago when I was younger at the time of the crime was it might be an inside job as such. Then I studied the case and thought I had found a good suspect for an intruder who may have entered through the window. Now I am not so sure about any intruder and am open to other theories. The one thing I am certain about is Burke was not responsible but then I suppose bottom line I do not know.

But how would an intruder dodge the spiderwebs in the window’s frame? Also, why wasn’t more dirt or such brought into the house? The sill looked very dirty in crime scene photos. Also, no handprints or disturbances were found in the dirt on the edge of the window to open or close it. It was indeed found closed when the scene was photographed. (It’s worth noting that John Ramsey admitted to breaking the window months earlier when he was locked out of his house.)

JonBenet Ramsey Case Encyclopedia / Potential Points of Entry

 

[awillis0513]

From childhood one of my favorite snacks has been condensed milk and pineapple, which is what I think is what JonBenet ate shortly before her death.

Just tinned stuff for me though, those small tins of pineapple rings and branded condensed milk.

I've tried it with fruit cocktail variety but the juice dilutes the condensed cream and makes it far too syrupy.

.

My Mom loves that stuff. I can’t do condensed milk, but she is a sucker for it.

 

[UKGuy]

I do think she was penetrated with the paintbrush, possibly. I know there is evidence of fluids and specks of blood being present in and near her genitalia, though the fluids were never shown to be semen. Whether she was assaulted before or after her death as a part of the staging, I’m not sure.

awillis0513,
Coroner Meyer said explicitly that JonBenet had been digitally penetrated and been subject to sexual contact.

A second examination that night by Dr. Andy Sirontak confirmed this.

Coroner Meyer tells us when he thinks JonBenet was wiped down, so surely he would know whether JonBenet had been sexually assaulted?

If Coroner Meyer has it all wrong and what he observed was staged, why would the stager(s) bother cleaning it all up, wiping her down and redressing JonBenet in clean size-12's and Burke's longjohns?

.

 

[Laura Mountford]

I do think she was penetrated with the paintbrush, possibly. I know there is evidence of fluids and specks of blood being present in and near her genitalia, though the fluids were never shown to be semen. Whether she was assaulted before or after her death as a part of the staging, I’m not sure.

I noticed in the autopsy report that a hymen is mentioned as if still present. Now, obviously she could still have been sexually assaulted or abused but that would suggest that she had never received full penetration from any (thing or person). I know a lot of people suggest rape by an intruder or her father but if it was rape her hymen would be torn and thus not exist anymore. Just wondering what people make of this?

 

[UKGuy]

My Mom loves that stuff. I can’t do condensed milk, but she is a sucker for it.

If I run out of fresh fruit this is my substitute at mealtime. I never used to like condensed milk till I tried it with pineapple, yummy stuff.

.

 

[jaejae]

My Mom loves that stuff. I can’t do condensed milk, but she is a sucker for it.

Like I say I used to think of an intruder more but am now more open minded. With the spiders web it makes the intruder theory less likely. But it is surprising how quickly a spider can re weave it web. Interesting thread but nasty subject the murder of a six year old girl.

 

[UKGuy]

I noticed in the autopsy report that a hymen is mentioned as if still present. Now, obviously she could still have been sexually assaulted or abused but that would suggest that she had never received full penetration from any (thing or person). I know a lot of people suggest rape by an intruder or her father but if it was rape her hymen would be torn and thus not exist anymore. Just wondering what people make of this?

Laura Mountford,
JonBenet's hymen was eroded and enlarged way beyond the average for a girl of her age.

Internally the Coroner noted old but healed injuries, thereby suggesting prior abuse.

.

 

[awillis0513]

awillis0513,
Coroner Meyer said explicitly that JonBenet had been digitally penetrated and been subject to sexual contact.

A second examination that night by Dr. Andy Sirontak confirmed this.

Coroner Meyer tells us when he thinks JonBenet was wiped down, so surely he would know whether JonBenet had been sexually assaulted?

If Coroner Meyer has it all wrong and what he observed was staged, why would the stager(s) bother cleaning it all up, wiping her down and redressing JonBenet in clean size-12's and Burke's longjohns?

.

I base the paintbrush theory off of the small piece of wood found in JonBenet. I actually agree with the Ramseys that the idea that it was transferred accidentally into her during the collection of evidence doesn’t make sense.

However, if someone was penetrating JonBenet for sexual gratification purposes, why would they use the paintbrush? It seems as if it were a part of staging or even just an act of curiosity. It’s an odd part of the scene, to me.

 

[Laura Mountford]

Laura Mountford,
JonBenet's hymen was eroded and enlarged way beyond the average for a girl of her age.

Internally the Coroner noted old but healed injuries, thereby suggesting prior abuse.

.

Thank you for that information. I was not aware it had eroded. While hymen tears can happen through activities such as horse riding and certain gymnastics, I have not heard about anything that JB would have done so vigorous as to cause that to happen naturally. Poor girl...

 

[awillis0513]

awillis0513,
Coroner Meyer said explicitly that JonBenet had been digitally penetrated and been subject to sexual contact.

A second examination that night by Dr. Andy Sirontak confirmed this.

Coroner Meyer tells us when he thinks JonBenet was wiped down, so surely he would know whether JonBenet had been sexually assaulted?

If Coroner Meyer has it all wrong and what he observed was staged, why would the stager(s) bother cleaning it all up, wiping her down and redressing JonBenet in clean size-12's and Burke's longjohns?

.

Also, I agree with the redressing remarks. How would an intruder even have known he size-12s were available? It’s clearly insane. Though, perhaps the wiping down was to clean up urine rather than evidence of a sexual assault.

 

[Laura Mountford]

I base the paintbrush theory off of the small piece of wood found in JonBenet. I actually agree with the Ramseys that the idea that it was transferred accidentally into her during the collection of evidence doesn’t make sense.

However, if someone was penetrating JonBenet for sexual gratification purposes, why would they use the paintbrush? It seems as if it were a part of staging or even just an act of curiosity. It’s an odd part of the scene, to me.

Like something a young, male child with an odd curiosity might do perhaps?

 

[awillis0513]

Thank you for that information. I was not aware it had eroded. While hymen tears can happen through activities such as horse riding and certain gymnastics, I have not heard about anything that JB would have done so vigorous as to cause that to happen naturally. Poor girl...

I think the family has alluded to the cause of this to have been from bicycling. I’m sure that would be possible somehow, but it seems unlikely.

Edited to add: Today is weird Googling day and I hope my search history doesn’t make me out to be a psychopath. But I felt this article could add insight to this. It does mention bicycling accidents specifically. Hymen injuries in children — My Vagina