JonBenet Ramsey's father calls beauty pageants "very bizarre"

[Fluttershy]

I think they really wanted a Miss America in the family. Patsy and Pam had missed out, but then JonBenet was born and she was beautiful, so they all got another shot at the title.

 

[sandover]

I think they really wanted a Miss America in the family. Patsy and Pam had missed out, but then JonBenet was born and she was beautiful, so they all got another shot at the title.

And remember, John named his boat Miss America. It wasn't just Patsy and Pam and Nedra who wanted a Miss America in their family.

 

[UKGuy]

And remember, John named his boat Miss America. It wasn't just Patsy and Pam and Nedra who wanted a Miss America in their family.

sandover,
Yes an interesting factoid, is this a hint to the Ramsey psychology?

Talking of which, allow me to relate a corresponding interest, so what do the police, politicians, journalists and serial killers have in common?


Well think about a thirteen year old girl who was killed by a serial killer, my focus here, then add in the press and media coverage, so how does this impact upon the good ole USAofA. Well a site I visit a lot is PBS.ORG, they do good stuff, lately they covered forensic science, e.g. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...c-credentialing-org-responds-to-the-real-csi/

This coming week the Murdochs are due to be interviewed in public as part of an establishment presentation of democracy in action, starting on Tuesday with the son, do a google search for a live stream if you want to watch or record, due to the time difference.

If you are uncertain or not sure why you should be concerned then please view the documentary at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/murdochs-scandal/, for the majority of journalists its required viewing. The police are less vocal, but will also view regardless, the politicians will look in their pocket book or wallet first, then offer you sage advice!

 

[Limaes]

And remember, John named his boat Miss America. It wasn't just Patsy and Pam and Nedra who wanted a Miss America in their family.

Touche! :yesss:

 

[eileenhawkeye]

This is a quote from John's book:

"My biggest fear was that JonBenet would turn 18 and run off to Hollywood."

WTH? So John was already seeing signs in his six-year-old that she would be a rebellious teenager?

And besides, JonBenet wouldn't have to run away to Hollywood; Patsy would gladly move with her.

 

[arielilane]

:what:"It's very bizarre". :what:... And it wasn't back then? :maddening:

 

[Stef88]

Was Patsy abused as a child? I keep seeing hints at this around...?

 

[Noodles]

Was Patsy abused as a child? I keep seeing hints at this around...?

Yeah, thats being tossed out there that possibly Pats' dad molested JB too. All kinds of theories out there.

 

[DeeDee249]

Was Patsy abused as a child? I keep seeing hints at this around...?

There has long been suspicion that this was the case with Patsy and possibly her sisters.

When asked this very question by police, Patsy's voice trailed off and became very "small" and childlike when she answered "No". She did not answer it in the manner of someone who felt vehemently that this was not true, and she vener answered that question in a polygraph.

Patsy's mother Nedra made on odd comment about JB's evidence of abuse. She said that JB was "only a little bit molested"- as if only a little bit of sexual contact with a child is no big deal.
Nedra was of the generation that DID sometimes look the other way when these things happened, considering them a family matter or the kind of thing that happens sometimes.
Sometimes the shame keeps the secret. Sometimes the secret is kept because it would be too damaging to the family or the molester (pillars of the community/church often turn out to be the worst offenders). It was thought the child would "get over it"- no real harm done, etc.

Sexual exploration among children, especially siblings, is fairly common and not what we are talking about here, but sexual exploration between siblings that results in injury (bruising, bleeding, hymenal erosion) and/or death is certainly NOT common, usual or acceptable.
And of course, ANY sexual contact between an adult and child is NOT acceptable and ALWAYS illegal, regardless of who the molester is or whether any physical harm is done to the child.

Some people feel the complete silence of Patsy's OTHER sister as far as the death of her niece was most unusual, and I agree.
Patsy's sister P, who also was a Miss West Virginia, never married or had kids, and became obese was also molested- and although these "signs" are common in abuse survivors, there is no way to prove that any of the sisters were molested by someone in their family.

 

[Myself]

Hi there,
Can I ask where your source is for Nedra having said that Jonbenet was only a little bit molested? Do I understand this correctly? Is that what you are reporting having read?
Can you tell me where that came from please?

 

[Myself]

I watched Toddlers & Tiaras. I also read a lot of what both Patsy and Steve Thomas thought about pageants- two very different perspectives.
I wonder if pageants back in 1996 were the same as what we have today or slightly different? I got the feeling that a lot of the stage mothers I see want their daughters to be the next JBR. But I am not sure that what it was back then when she was in it was as disturbing as what we see today.
Maybe he was just not that keen on performing. Maybe each parent wanted different things for JBR? It happens.

 

[BOESP]

I watched Toddlers & Tiaras. I also read a lot of what both Patsy and Steve Thomas thought about pageants- two very different perspectives.
I wonder if pageants back in 1996 were the same as what we have today or slightly different? I got the feeling that a lot of the stage mothers I see want their daughters to be the next JBR. But I am not sure that what it was back then when she was in it was as disturbing as what we see today.
Maybe he was just not that keen on performing. Maybe each parent wanted different things for JBR? It happens.

Welcome to you Myself!

You might want to check Youtube for various videos of JonBenet and her pageants.

Also, there is evidence, iirc, found in Death of Innocence telling quite a bit about Patsy's view. The three major books have various info and viewpoints but it seems obvious that JonBenet did have her hair lightened, wore artificial teeth (called a flipper) and that Patsy spent thousands on costuming, dance and talent lessons. She went through the "pageant scrub" according to sister Pam and Patsy, which is a thorough cleansing of the external body which I'm not sure how to interpret.

I don't know about Boulder but that is way over the top for 1996 where I live. Around here "Little Miss (fill in the blank) County" at the county fair was about as far as anyone took their children. We've produced two Miss Kentucky winners and, knowing both of their families, I will say they did not act like Patsy. One was in the 1970s and the in 2003.

 

[DeeDee249]

Hi there,
Can I ask where your source is for Nedra having said that Jonbenet was only a little bit molested? Do I understand this correctly? Is that what you are reporting having read?
Can you tell me where that came from please?

Yes you understand it correctly.

Although this quote has long been discussed on the forums, mine came from ST's book.

 

[Myself]

I have read Steve Thomas' a number of times & don't recall that comment, I will go back & read.
I take on board the comments about JonBenet & how she looked/ was prepared for the pageants and I suppose it was a little over the top. From reading various books I had the idea that John wasn't as keen on the pageants as Patsy, didn't attend as many of them, nor the preparation and he travelled a lot, so maybe had limited interest in shat was happening with his daughter's pageantry at that stage.
Maybe afterwards he was horrified, who knows? I know he commented in Death of innocence that it is not a wise move having a public life for a child.

I have read a number of discussions on various boards.
I suppose I left it all because I found the discussion to be heated & personal. That was a number of years ago so maybe people's manners have changed since then.

 

[BBB167893]

Was Patsy abused as a child? I keep seeing hints at this around...?

You're not the first to ask, Stef88. My brother thinks she was. I can't dismiss it, either.

 

[BBB167893]

There has long been suspicion that this was the case with Patsy and possibly her sisters.

When asked this very question by police, Patsy's voice trailed off and became very "small" and childlike when she answered "No". She did not answer it in the manner of someone who felt vehemently that this was not true, and she vener answered that question in a polygraph.

Patsy's mother Nedra made on odd comment about JB's evidence of abuse. She said that JB was "only a little bit molested"- as if only a little bit of sexual contact with a child is no big deal.
Nedra was of the generation that DID sometimes look the other way when these things happened, considering them a family matter or the kind of thing that happens sometimes.
Sometimes the shame keeps the secret. Sometimes the secret is kept because it would be too damaging to the family or the molester (pillars of the community/church often turn out to be the worst offenders). It was thought the child would "get over it"- no real harm done, etc.

Sexual exploration among children, especially siblings, is fairly common and not what we are talking about here, but sexual exploration between siblings that results in injury (bruising, bleeding, hymenal erosion) and/or death is certainly NOT common, usual or acceptable.
And of course, ANY sexual contact between an adult and child is NOT acceptable and ALWAYS illegal, regardless of who the molester is or whether any physical harm is done to the child.

Some people feel the complete silence of Patsy's OTHER sister as far as the death of her niece was most unusual, and I agree.
Patsy's sister P, who also was a Miss West Virginia, never married or had kids, and became obese was also molested- and although these "signs" are common in abuse survivors, there is no way to prove that any of the sisters were molested by someone in their family.

DD, you've been reading my notes again.

 

[Flatlander]

Yeah, thats being tossed out there that possibly Pats' dad molested JB too. All kinds of theories out there.

If Nedra was of the opinion that JB was a little bit molested which is what she stated than it should not be considered unusual that perhaps DP was a molester and NP turned and looked the other way. If I knew that my grand daughter was being abused I wouldn't sit still for one minute of it.

And yes, JB was being primed for Miss America. Been there, done that and understand the rebelliousness JB felt and those little girls in T & T. Honestly why do they allow shows like that on t.v. To me it is child abuse in and of itself.

Moms living vicariously through their daughters. :sick: And honestly Dad's to busy to care about what is really going on ... unless they are the abusers as well :tears:

 

[Noodles]

If Nedra was of the opinion that JB was a little bit molested which is what she stated than it should not be considered unusual that perhaps DP was a molester and NP turned and looked the other way. If I knew that my grand daughter was being abused I wouldn't sit still for one minute of it.

And yes, JB was being primed for Miss America. Been there, done that and understand the rebelliousness JB felt and those little girls in T & T. Honestly why do they allow shows like that on t.v. To me it is child abuse in and of itself.

Moms living vicariously through their daughters. :sick: And honestly Dad's to busy to care about what is really going on ... unless they are the abusers as well :tears:

I'm not saying I think it's impossible for JB to have expressed an interest in pageants, but the way John talked about it (IIRC), it was all JB's idea. All at her presistence. I could see her being interested in dress-up at her age but I've often wondered just how much of a push the maternal side of the house was giving.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

John also spoke to Inside Edition back in March. I can't find the video but they have an article on their website about it. Apparently, John says that pageants are "child abuse".

http://www.insideedition.com/news/7842/inside-edition-speaks-with-john-ramsey.aspx

 

[Flatlander]

I'm not saying I think it's impossible for JB to have expressed an interest in pageants, but the way John talked about it (IIRC), it was all JB's idea. All at her presistence. I could see her being interested in dress-up at her age but I've often wondered just how much of a push the maternal side of the house was giving.

Here's a push taken from ST pg 100: One room in the large brick home of Patsy's parents, Don and Nedra Paugh, in the Atlanta suburb of Roswell is a shrine to beauty pagents, filled with pictures and articles and with trophies and crowns won by Patsy and Pam. Nedra seemed obsessed by pagents. Only a few minutes into the interview and she couldn't stop talking about beauty contests. She told us that JB had started on the runways at the age of four for exactly the same reason children begin training for the Olympics at an early age. If you don't start them young, she said, "They fall miserably behind."

Once in a restaurant JB was cold and wanted to put on her sweater and PR said no, "You are still on show."

ST pg.364: I thought I had heard it all, but JR out did himself by saying that JB herself had launched the beauty pageant career and "was more insistent than Patsy." JB had seen a newspaper advertisement , he said, and told her parents she wanted to do that. ST thought it unusual for a four year old to be paging through the newspaper and reading the ads. **JB still was not reading well when she entered the first grade.

JB was a tomboy my nature. She loved mother earth. The pageants were something that was drilled into her that she must do and that was that.