JonBenet Ramson letter - written before or after + linguistics

[BBB167893]

If PR confessed, would you have believed her automatically and without question?

Probably.

I think so. Maybe she would've done that to take the fall for the real killer.

NOW you're talking!

It seems LE would've jumped on that and called it case closed. Even though there's a few loose ends here. Like where did the tape, cord, and pineapple come from? Where did their packaging go? Lets be real, and know the cord was new and freshly cut from a roll.

In the spirit of "being real," EVERY case will have loose ends. That's just a fact. I think Tom Haney said something along those lines. I'll double-check. That's never stopped law enforcement from using confessions to seal the deal. HOTYH, I've done my best to be a good sport around here, but you're getting a little too far into ACLU territory for my taste. That's a road I'm not about to go down.

PR, if confessing, would have to come up with a convincing argument as to where these items came from, before I'd even believe it.

Somehow, I get the feeling that even if Odin himself came down from Valhalla and told you so, it wouldn't take. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

LE found fresh pineapple in the Ramsey fridge which matched what was in the bowl which matched what was in JBR's body.

That IS interesting.

Can you elaborate on LE's finding of pineapple in the fridge? Do we know what container it was in??

 

[DeeDee249]

That IS interesting.

Can you elaborate on LE's finding of pineapple in the fridge? Do we know what container it was in??

You should be able to find it by checking out PR's depos on ACR.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

You should be able to find it by checking out PR's depos on ACR.

It makes perfect sense that I can't verify your claim, because it makes perfect sense for an intruder NOT to use the refrigerator to store pineapple.

Please find the LE statement you claim to exist, where pineapple was discovered in the refrigerator. It will be explaining a lot, IMO.

 

[Tadpole12]

Don't bother, tea. He's referring to comments by Clint Van Zandt. He omits how Van Zandt discounts them as smokescreens in the same interview.



I think he's referring to me, tea. HOTYH thinks if I believe something, we ALL believe something, despite my best efforts to disabuse him of that notion.

He's referring to comments by Clint Van Zandt. He omits how Van Zandt discounts them as smokescreens in the same interview. - SD

ah. ah so.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

In the spirit of "being real," EVERY case will have loose ends. That's just a fact. I think Tom Haney said something along those lines. I'll double-check. That's never stopped law enforcement from using confessions to seal the deal. HOTYH, I've done my best to be a good sport around here, but you're getting a little too far into ACLU territory for my taste. That's a road I'm not about to go down.

When I said 'loose ends' I was being sarcastic.

In the case of JBR, you've got at least eight (8) major crime scene items:

Pen, paper, paintbrush, cord, tape, pineapple, oversize underwear, and unknown blunt instrument or surface.

Removing the items that never had contact with JBR leaves 6 items. These 6 items are known to be intimately involved.

Paintbrush, cord, tape, pineapple, oversize underwear, and unknown blunt instrument or surface.

Of the 6 items physically involved with the murder, only 2 can be sourced to the house. The other 4 come from an unknown source. Thats not very good.

What is missing here, to place these other items at the house, are receipts, wrappers and containers, innocent or unrelated uses of the same materials, and family or non-family testimony. All claimed by RDI to be missing for common, 'understandable' reasons. I'd buy that excuse for minority of items unsourced. I don't think that excuse can be rationally applied to the great majority of items.

Not with a straight face.

 

[Tadpole12]

Hey, ....wasn't there a 'suggested connection' between the rope and PR's construction of some kinda 'cow girl style' prop, booth? poster? constructed with similar rope?
fuzzy memory ... iirc

 

[madeleine]

When I said 'loose ends' I was being sarcastic.

In the case of JBR, you've got at least eight (8) major crime scene items:

Pen, paper, paintbrush, cord, tape, pineapple, oversize underwear, and unknown blunt instrument or surface.

Removing the items that never had contact with JBR leaves 6 items. These 6 items are known to be intimately involved.

Paintbrush, cord, tape, pineapple, oversize underwear, and unknown blunt instrument or surface.

Of the 6 items physically involved with the murder, only 2 can be sourced to the house. The other 4 come from an unknown source. Thats not very good.

What is missing here, to place these other items at the house, are receipts, wrappers and containers, innocent or unrelated uses of the same materials, and family or non-family testimony. All claimed by RDI to be missing for common, 'understandable' reasons. I'd buy that excuse for minority of items unsourced. I don't think that excuse can be rationally applied to the great majority of items.

Not with a straight face.

You forgot the stun gun.:crazy:

 

[Ames]

It makes perfect sense that I can't verify your claim, because it makes perfect sense for an intruder NOT to use the refrigerator to store pineapple.

Please find the LE statement you claim to exist, where pineapple was discovered in the refrigerator. It will be explaining a lot, IMO.

Holdon...it seems that we have to do all of the research for you. Have you read ANY of the interviews, or Depos?? No offense...

24 JOHN RAMSEY: Well the kids like pineapple,
25 but that's a big bowl and this is a big spoon and

0208
1 I can't imagine that the kids would have something
2 like that at any time. Certainly not with iced
3 tea, I don't think. They don't even drink iced
4 tea. I think they do not. (INAUDIBLE) yeah.
5 LOU SMIT: John, I just wanted to kind
6 of check back with you. Now these obviously are
7 crime scene photographs.
8 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
9 LOU SMIT: And this is the condition that
10 things are found when pictures are taken. We're
11 trying to explain that, even in correlating it
12 with your daughter (INAUDIBLE)?
13 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. Could that have been
14 gotten out by someone who was in there that
15 morning, I wonder?
16 LOU SMIT: I don't know. That's a thought.
17 What do you think?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know. I mean I don't --
19 that's just a huge --
20 LOU SMIT: You mean somebody who had been
21 (INAUDIBLE)?
22 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, the Fernies or the
23 Whites or, there were a lot of people in the house
24 that were -- that would not be like us to leave
25 that. Certainly not leaving the next morning on a

0209
1 trip, to leave it like that, out.
2 That's a big bowl, whatever it is, if it's
3 pineapple.
4 MIKE KANE: Do you recognize the bowl?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, I don't know. I recognize
6 the spoon, because it's a big serving spoon. It's
7 not like a teaspoon. And that could be one of our
8 bowls. We had white bowls like that. Patsy would
9 recognize it for sure. It looks like our glass.
10 LOU SMIT: Who would drink tea with a teabag
11 in the glass?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: Somebody who would drink tea,
13 I guess. I don't know. I don't drink tea. Burke
14 will drink sweet ice tea. I don't remember if
15 JonBenet did, if she did.
16 I mean, even for someone who's there and to get
17 out that big of a bowl and put that much pineapple
18 in it and just leave it. That doesn't make sense.
19 MIKE KANE: That was a serving spoon?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: It's a big serving spoon. I
21 mean don't even have an answer.
22 MIKE KANE: (INAUDIBLE) taken out and put
23 back in the refrigerator. Could that have
24 (INAUDIBLE) where it had been?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: It's possible.


========================================

16 JOHN RAMSEY: Well okay, the 25th,
17 Christmas Day night. So if you said midnight,
18 that means there is three hours that I would say
19 there is no way she could have eaten any, as --
20 it's a time mark. I think Patsy -- see that
21 picture, asked to see if that bowl looks like
22 something that would have been in the
23 refrigerator and left out, did JonBenet grab a
24 bite when she left the house, I don't know. But
25 I know as a father and as sound asleep as she

0523
1 was, that she didn't get up, we didn't feed her
2 when we got home.


===================================================

SteveThomas (May. 10, 2000 02:04 AM)
ACandyRose (read)

Dear ACandyRose,

Unfortunately, hindsight is everything. At the autopsy, the disocvery of the pineapple in the upper digestive tract sparked a recolelction by a detective back to the crime scene -- a bowl of pineapple on the brekafast tbale (which was colelcted and refrigerated as evidence).

Much much later we were able to have the scientists make the determination that the pineapple in the bowl was fresh pineapple (as opposed to canned), and was compared to the pineapple in the victim — consistent right down to the rind in both cases as fresh pineapple.

(Not to mention Patsy's fingerprint . . .but that is another story)

But by the time all these "discoveries" were realized, the thought to determine from where the fresh pinepaple had its genesis was gone -- that is, one cop thought there might have been some fresh cut pineapple in the Ramsey fridge, but it had never been collected. There was no way of knowing then how important this would become later!

We do know, though, that the White's never served pineapple at their home that night.

Would love to discuss it more wiht you at some later point.

Hope this answered your question on the pineapple.

Re: the Stine's -- why werent they called by Patsy that morning? In my opinion, the Stine's didnt really become close friends until after this tragedy. I found nothing indicating they were in the Ramsey's close circle before Christmas, although they were acquainted and on freindly terms. But the White's and Fernie's were obviouly much closer.

 

[madeleine]

JOHN RAMSEY: Somebody who would drink tea,
13 I guess. I don't know. I don't drink tea. Burke
14 will drink sweet ice tea. I don't remember if
15 JonBenet did, if she did.
16 I mean, even for someone who's there and to get
17 out that big of a bowl and put that much pineapple
18 in it and just leave it. That doesn't make sense.



It does make sense John,kids do that.

 

[claudicici]

...i see 5 items that can be sourced to the house...

 

[madeleine]

what about the killer....me thinks he/she can be very well sourced to the house as well

(sorry couldn't help it)

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

There is no statement in the interviews that places pineapple in any container in the refrigerator. If you really knew anything, you'd know what container the pineapple that 'one cop thought he saw' was in. Yet again for RDI, close but no cigar.

Sorry Ames, but somebody who 'thought he saw' doesn't place the pineapple at the R's that night. I was looking for something more evidentiary. Y'know, like the pineapple and the container it was in, held as evidence. The crime scene photo of the broken paintbrush fragment sitting in the paint tote is real, actual evidentiary stuff, and places the paintbrush there.

Four of the six items on JBR can't even be sourced to the house! I don't understand why RDI was ever realistically considered, at any point.

 

[Ames]

There is no statement in the interviews that places pineapple in any container in the refrigerator. If you really knew anything, you'd know what container the pineapple that 'one cop thought he saw' was in. Yet again for RDI, close but no cigar.

Sorry Ames, but somebody who 'thought he saw' doesn't place the pineapple at the R's that night. I was looking for something more evidentiary. Y'know, like the pineapple and the container it was in, held as evidence. The crime scene photo of the broken paintbrush fragment sitting in the paint tote is real, actual evidentiary stuff, and places the paintbrush there.

Four of the six items on JBR can't even be sourced to the house! I don't understand why RDI was ever realistically considered, at any point.

It looks like to me, that John or Patsy would have stated that the pineapple definately did NOT come from their house. All they did was deny feeding it to her, holdon. When asked if JB could have gone downstairs and gotten it herself...John did NOT say..."Well, no...because we didn't have any", he just said..that she wouldn't have gone down to the kitchen, by herself in the dark. It is stated more than once by John that the pineapple in the bowl, could have came from their own fridge. Why would he say that, if there wasn't any in the house?? Face it...the pineapple came from the Ramsey's home. No intruder, is going to bring in pineapple...much less FRESH pineapple...into a home, to feed a child that he is about to kidnap..and/or murder. Again I will say....the Ramsey's NEVER denied having pineapple in their home, they only denied feeding it to JB the night that she died.

 

[BBB167893]

When I said 'loose ends' I was being sarcastic.

Sarcasm's not that easy to get across in writing, HOTYH. I honestly believed that it was worth responding to (because it is an interesting point). Although, that kind of confirms what I said about a confession.

In the case of JBR, you've got at least eight (8) major crime scene items:

Pen, paper, paintbrush, cord, tape, pineapple, oversize underwear, and unknown blunt instrument or surface.

Removing the items that never had contact with JBR leaves 6 items. These 6 items are known to be intimately involved.

Paintbrush, cord, tape, pineapple, oversize underwear, and unknown blunt instrument or surface.

Yeah, I know all of that.

Of the 6 items physically involved with the murder, only 2 can be sourced to the house. The other 4 come from an unknown source. Thats not very good.

What is missing here, to place these other items at the house, are receipts, wrappers and containers, innocent or unrelated uses of the same materials, and family or non-family testimony.

Well, I might have one of those. Somehow I doubt it would take.

All claimed by RDI to be missing for common, 'understandable' reasons. I'd buy that excuse for minority of items unsourced. I don't think that excuse can be rationally applied to the great majority of items.

Not with a straight face.

And maybe some uncommon reasons, such as being disposed of.

I don't understand why RDI was ever realistically considered, at any point.

I'd be more than happy to explain it to you.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

It looks like to me, that John or Patsy would have stated that the pineapple definately did NOT come from their house. All they did was deny feeding it to her, holdon. When asked if JB could have gone downstairs and gotten it herself...John did NOT say..."Well, no...because we didn't have any", he just said..that she wouldn't have gone down to the kitchen, by herself in the dark. It is stated more than once by John that the pineapple in the bowl, could have came from their own fridge. Why would he say that, if there wasn't any in the house?? Face it...the pineapple came from the Ramsey's home. No intruder, is going to bring in pineapple...much less FRESH pineapple...into a home, to feed a child that he is about to kidnap..and/or murder. Again I will say....the Ramsey's NEVER denied having pineapple in their home, they only denied feeding it to JB the night that she died.

Telling me to face it doesn't make the pineapple evidence materialize. There's nothing to face. There is no evidence that factually places pineapple at the R's. Where is the fact?

Let me put it in simpler terms: If you don't know what container the pineapple was in when it entered the Ramsey house, then you don't know anything about the source of the pineapple. Do you know what container? Please spare me the 'well, most likely it was in a bag because thats how it usually comes, ' or 'everybody gets it in a bag,' or 'it was JBR's fav snack, they had to have some and who cares how it got there.'

Or evidence like 'somebody who thought they saw something once' (LOL).

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I'd be more than happy to explain it to you.

Explain these:

Most items physically located on JBR, that were used in the murder, can't be sourced to the R's. Those items are the tape, cord, pineapple, and blunt instrument or surface.

The same DNA of an unknown male are on two articles of clothing that JBR was wearing at the time she was murdered. In her underwear mixed with her blood, and on the waistband of her longjohns.

BPD attempted to match PR's handwriting to that of the RN author, and the attempt failed.

----------------------------

Why not come up with 3 of RDI most compelling arguments? I'd be more than happy to explain them to you!

 

[DeeDee249]

It makes perfect sense that I can't verify your claim, because it makes perfect sense for an intruder NOT to use the refrigerator to store pineapple.

Please find the LE statement you claim to exist, where pineapple was discovered in the refrigerator. It will be explaining a lot, IMO.

I'll do no such thing. You'll find it, I'm sure. Of course an intruder wouldn't use the fridge. But it also doesn't make sense that in intruder would bring in pineapple to a planned kidnapping either. Or a box of Kleenex.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I'll do no such thing. You'll find it, I'm sure. Of course an intruder wouldn't use the fridge. But it also doesn't make sense that in intruder would bring in pineapple to a planned kidnapping either. Or a box of Kleenex.

Probably a good way to look at it is like this: When you know what container the pineapple in the fridge was in, then you probably know that the pineapple belonged to the R's. As long as you don't know if it was a bag, plastic cup, or whatever, then you have no idea where the pineapple came from. The source of the pineapple is unknown, if you don't even know what type of container it was in.

 

[Ames]

I'll do no such thing. You'll find it, I'm sure. Of course an intruder wouldn't use the fridge. But it also doesn't make sense that in intruder would bring in pineapple to a planned kidnapping either. Or a box of Kleenex.

Or the cigar box that John claimed that he had never seen before. I have asked Holdon to go to my thread titled.."Patsy Ramsey...Things Strange or Out of Place", and I also have one for John. The list goes ON and ON of things that were not supposed to be in that house, but were. An intruder would have needed a U-haul to bring all of those "strange" things in. The Kleenex box is just ridiculous. The intruder HAD to have brought that in, because Patsy says that she doesn't buy that type of box. She only buys the square boxes, because they take up less space. John said the same thing about the kleenex box. (And they both said the same exact thing, word for word...about PW saving out a plate of cracked crab for JB..and thinking that it was strange for her to have done that...nevermind that John admitted finally that HE ASKED her to save it out for JB. They so totally rehearsed what they were going to say....it is obvious).