JonBenet Ramson letter - written before or after + linguistics

[BBB167893]

Superdave already knew this, but for your information, Ames, here goes:

No BPD-Hired Experts Identified Patsy as RN Author. "During the investigation, the Boulder Police Department and Boulder County District Attorney's Office consulted at least six handwriting experts. (SMF P 191; PSMF P 191.) All of these experts consulted the original Ransom Note and original handwriting exemplars from Mrs. Ramsey. (SMF P 205; PSMF P 205.) Four of these experts were hired by the police and two were hired by defendants. (SMF P 191; PSMF P 191.) None of the six consulted experts identified Mrs. Ramsey as the author of the Ransom Note. (SMF P 195; PSMF P 195.) [Emphasis added.]

This is where the 'zero' comes from. 'No' and 'none' means zero, right? That is, zero of the experts originally consulted by BPD would officially state that PR wrote the note. Superdave didn't dispute this, but you do for some reason?

Obviously, this was a major defeat for RDI. One of several major systematic defeats, actually.

What do you mean, I didn't dispute it? I dispute a great deal, especially when if refers to the Carnes-ival of Errors. Don't put words in my mouth.

 

[BBB167893]

I find it very hard to buy this:

PR bashed her beloved daughter in the head, killing her, staged a sexual assault, fashioned a garrot with an intricate knot, and then wrote a ransom note and then SUDDENLY...
she can recall specific lines from very "non chick flick" movies in addition to references from L&L? It just doesn't make a lick of sense.

Except whomever wrote it DIDN'T recall them. Those lines are actually MISquoted. And this whole L&L thing just seems like projection to me. Making connections that aren't there.

By the way I also read the account of the crime by John Douglas in a subsequent book and he is more an IDI.

If you believe ANYTHING that joker says about this crime, we've got trouble!

 

[Ames]

Seems far fetch to me too. Maybe she screamed, so they killed her thinking their kidnapping had been compromised.

On the other hand...

"Late last month, a Saudi judge refused to annul the marriage of an 8-year-old girl to a 47-year-old man.

The judge, Sheikh Habib Abdallah al-Habib, rejected a petition from the girl's mother, whose lawyer said the marriage was arranged by her father to settle a debt with "a close friend." The judge required the girl's husband to sign a pledge that he would not have sex with her until she reaches puberty."

LOL...far fetched to YOU. You are the one that originally posted this ridiculous theory, in the FIRST place. Do I need to find the thread, and post number for you, to refresh your memory? Because I will....

 

[BBB167893]

SD explains that JB told PR she and daddy were having sex again, so PR, was enraged rather than first engaging JR, she engaged JB and struck her head with a single blow hard enough to crack her skull.

Don't mischaracterize it, voynich. That's all I ask.

 

[Ames]

JB a fake blond and non-blue eyes really?

JB's hair was naturally a light brown, and she was said to have worn blue contacts for her pageants, and her pageant pictures...her eyes were green. I have no idea how true the contact lens statement is though.

 

[BBB167893]

Yeah, I can make up stories too. There is no direct evidence to support any of that and those that are trying to piece together what happened should stick to facts, jmo.

There's enough that I based a BOOK about it! "No evidence," huh? How much time you got?

 

[BBB167893]

Showing my ignorance here but is it common for handwriting experts to say categorically and without a margin of error that someone wrote something?

Absolutely not! That's where HOTYH has gotten it wrong.

I honestly thought they gave opinions and impressions but never a categoric 'yes' or 'no.'

That's EXACTLY what they do, Sophie.

Is a categoric 'yes' or 'no' admissible in court as scientific evidence?

Hard to say. Depends on how much they can back it up.

Also, is there a set of rules and principles and a system for peer review of scholarship? I know almost nothing about this subject.

Yes, there is. But even then, there's a lot of groupthink and politics that goes into it.

 

[BBB167893]

And lets not forget that Patsy scored 4.5 on a scale of 5....5 being definately didn't write the note. So there is a margin of error there. She did NOT score a perfect 5...which she would have...if it was proven WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that she was NOT the author. It was hard for the handwriting experts, because the RN was written with a sharpie, and the ink bled.

Come on, Ames. Don't tell me you buy that malarky!

 

[BBB167893]

They rely on this speculation of how the story goes in order to explain why they “think” what they do. I doubt they teach that as a satisfactory investigative technique. Just sayin.

You'd be surprised.

 

[Ames]

If the 'one' you're referring to is Foster, then its really still zero.

Thats because we're talklng handwriting analysis, not linguistics here. The article you're referring to of an expert hired by the police isn't a ABFDE certified document examiner.

We're back to this: NONE of the CDE's hired by BPD stated officially that PR authored the note. Isn't that bad news for RDI?

And how do you KNOW this? How do YOU know who they are talking about?? The article didn't say...so how would YOU know?

 

[Ames]

Come on, Ames. Don't tell me you buy that malarky!

Not really, since the score was given by the Ramsey's own hired "experts".

 

[voynich]

Except whomever wrote it DIDN'T recall them. Those lines are actually MISquoted. And this whole L&L thing just seems like projection to me. Making connections that aren't there.



If you believe ANYTHING that joker says about this crime, we've got trouble!

If RN does show influence of L&L RN, would you say this favors IDI or would you say this goes to show that R's have read about L&L?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

What do you mean, I didn't dispute it? I dispute a great deal, especially when if refers to the Carnes-ival of Errors. Don't put words in my mouth.

Disrespect of Carnes and Douglas you show.

Voynich right he was.

First real day in an actual court of law for RDI. And another huge failure added to the failure list...

 

[voynich]

Disrespect of Carnes and Douglas you show.

Voynich right he was.
.

Yoda v.s Sith
:woohoo::Banane59:

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

LOL...far fetched to YOU. You are the one that originally posted this ridiculous theory, in the FIRST place. Do I need to find the thread, and post number for you, to refresh your memory? Because I will....

So what? There had to be some reason why JBR was wrapped to go, in a blanket with duct tape over her mouth, and then she was murdered instead. Nobody would wrap her up just to kill her, nor would anybody lovingly wrap her papoose-style after violently strangling her to death (maybe you missed that part of the evidence in the autopsy report??), while trying to make it look like an intruder did it. The idea that it all makes 'crazy sense' is stupid.

The only scenario that makes any sense at all has JBR wrapped in a blanket, with her mouth taped, for moving outside. Something else happened that caused the killer(s) to change their mind and murder her instead. This is what the evidence shows us.

 

[Ames]

So what? There had to be some reason why JBR was wrapped to go, in a blanket with duct tape over her mouth, and then she was murdered. They didn't wrap her up just to kill her, nor did her parents 'lovingly wrap her in a papoose' after strangling her to death.

Maybe you missed the 'strangled to death' evidence from the autopsy report??

Really? The autopsy report used those words? Yep, I missed that part...and here I thought that she had some sort of fatal head wound, too.

Ummm...JOHN himself is the one that said that she was wrapped "lovingly....papoose style". Those are not MY words. Why would anybody wrap a body, just to carry them out of the house? And how did the intruder know where to find that blanket?...It was in the dryer...according to the housekeeper. And the pocket knife that was found near JB's body...is thought to be the item used to cut the cord with. LHP said that she TOOK that knife away from Burke,because he was whitteling in the house with it..and she put it up, in a place that only she and Patsy knew where it was. BUT YET...THERE it was....near JB's body. I guess that the intruder that was going to kidnap JB, but for some reason decided to kill her...not only knew that the blanket was in the dryer...but, he also knew where that pocket knife was kept.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Really? The autopsy report used those words? Yep, I missed that part...and here I thought that she had some sort of fatal head wound, too.

Ummm...JOHN himself is the one that said that she was wrapped "lovingly....papoose style". Those are not MY words. Why would anybody wrap a body, just to carry them out of the house? ( The idea here, if you were paying any attention at all, is that the kidnappers were going to leave with a blanket-wrapped, duct-taped child) And how did the intruder know where to find that blanket? (uh, first one ran across??)...It was in the dryer...according to the housekeeper (oh we'll rest a murder case on that one!). And the pocket knife that was found near JB's body...is thought to be the item used to cut the cord with (is 'thought'?? by whom? I missed the part where they found cord fiber on a knife. Can you give me a link?? I mean, I did read they found cord fiber in her bed which was more bad news for RDI). LHP said that she TOOK that knife away from Burke,because he was whitteling in the house with it..and she put it up, in a place that only she and Patsy knew where it was. BUT YET...THERE it was....near JB's body. I guess that the intruder that was going to kidnap JB, but for some reason decided to kill her...not only knew that the blanket was in the dryer...but, he also knew where that pocket knife was kept.

Responses in red, hope it helps.

 

[Ames]

Responses in red, hope it helps.

Yep...that helped.

The pocket knife though...even if it wasn't used to cut anything with...what the heck was it doing near JB's body? LHP had said that she had taken it away from Burke and had HID it, and only she and Patsy knew where it was. So, that tells me that SOMEBODY that lived in that home...and knew where that knife was hid....was NEAR JB's body at some point.

 

[BBB167893]

If RN does show influence of L&L RN, would you say this favors IDI or would you say this goes to show that R's have read about L&L?

Couldn't say one way or the other, given everything else.

 

[BBB167893]

Disrespect of Carnes and Douglas you show.

You ain't seen NOTHIN' yet!

First real day in an actual court of law for RDI. And another huge failure added to the failure list...

A monkey could have done a better job than Hoffman did.