Josh Duggar charged with Receipt/Possession Child Sexual Abuse Material, 29 April 2021 *guilty* #3

[sds71]

@Garrett_Photo

Jury will receive official legal instructions in AM, followed by closing arguments starting Wednesday. Court is in recess for the night.


@samanthaboyd98
#JoshDuggar trial update @ccmccandless
and I sat behind Jim Bob #Duggar and talked to him during recess. In an exclusive comment he said: “We just want the truth to come out and we appreciate your prayers for our family.”


When Clayman asked how many of those were federal cases like this one, she wasn’t certain. “I’d have to refer to my C.V.,” she explained.
Follow-up questioning led her to admit that this might be her first.

Josh Duggar trial day 5: Defense rests, prosecution hammers credibility of defense expert witness in cross-examination

 

[BeckyF]

That's my only concern..... reason for appeal being ineffective counsel. Their single witness was inept at best.

Josh hired high powered defense attorneys that I'm sure he paid dearly for. JMO but I think they did the best they could.

Counting On: Josh Duggar hires top lawyer for his defense (monstersandcritics.com)
Who is Justin K. Gelfand?
According to his website, Justin K. Gelfand has extensive experience in high-stakes litigation. He has tried several high-profile cases, which means the Duggar family likely did its research when trying to get the best defense for Josh Duggar.

Some of the cases mentioned on the Margulis and Gelfand website that Gelfand has won include a complete acquittal in a Missouri sex crimes jury trial and his persuasion of Missouri prosecutors not to prosecute a man accused of a sex crime against a child.

He won an acquittal of all of the most serious counts — those carrying mandatory minimums of decades in prison and maximums of life — in a federal sex trafficking jury trial in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Missouri.

 

[BeckyF]

@Garrett_Photo

“We just want the truth to come out and we appreciate your prayers for our family.”

SBM
The truth has already come out. Prayers should go to the victims of this horrible abuse.

 

[gitana1]

@Garrett_Photo

Jury will receive official legal instructions in AM, followed by closing arguments starting Wednesday. Court is in recess for the night.


@samanthaboyd98
#JoshDuggar trial update @ccmccandless
and I sat behind Jim Bob #Duggar and talked to him during recess. In an exclusive comment he said: “We just want the truth to come out and we appreciate your prayers for our family.”


When Clayman asked how many of those were federal cases like this one, she wasn’t certain. “I’d have to refer to my C.V.,” she explained.
Follow-up questioning led her to admit that this might be her first.

Josh Duggar trial day 5: Defense rests, prosecution hammers credibility of defense expert witness in cross-examination

Wow. She looks super young!

https://www.loehrsforensics.com/michelebush

 

[CharlestonGal]

Along with what gitana1 said, google "sin in the camp" and Josh Duggar. There's a reason that Jim Holt might remember a computer-related conversation with Josh from over a decade ago...

He probably remembers it because it was in the context of methods used to get around the Covenant Eyes program. It's the software program <modsnip> to monitor attempts to access , bit torrents, TOR and other wickedness. Covenant Eyes flags these events and sends an alert to whoever is doing the monitoring (accountability partners). IIRC, Josh's monitor was his wife Anna.

Screen Accountability™ | Covenant Eyes

"Our Accountability service helps you overcome by monitoring your screen activity and sending a report to a trusted ally who holds you accountable for your online choices."

 

[LadyL]

Along with what gitana1 said, google "sin in the camp" and Josh Duggar. There's a reason that Jim Holt might remember a computer-related conversation with Josh from over a decade ago...

You may be interested in goggling, "[S01 Episode 1] "Duggars & JCPenney" - I Pray You Put This Journal Away Podcast" . And go from there, if you have time.

IMO, this is not the first time Josh was caught accessing sexual materials on the internet, although I do not believe they were sexual abuse materials when he was caught previously. In any event, also, IMO, in their sect/church, church confessionals either public or more private, were a big part of patriarchs and/or future patriarchs getting right with the Lord again.

Remember, (also IMO), these people do not believe in psychotherapy. Dealing with kids and/or adults who may have issues that others would address with professionals, are dealt with via counsel of church members.

So, Bobye Holt may very well be telling the truth.

I'll check them out. Thanks both.

 

[JayWill]

Wow. She looks super young!

https://www.loehrsforensics.com/michelebush

You do have to look askance at her claim of many years in the field. MOO

 

[Ruminations]

You may be interested in goggling, "[S01 Episode 1] "Duggars & JCPenney" - I Pray You Put This Journal Away Podcast" . And go from there, if you have time.

IMO, this is not the first time Josh was caught accessing sexual materials on the internet, although I do not believe they were sexual abuse materials when he was caught previously. In any event, also, IMO, in their sect/church, church confessionals either public or more private, were a big part of patriarchs and/or future patriarchs getting right with the Lord again.

Remember, (also IMO), these people do not believe in psychotherapy. Dealing with kids and/or adults who may have issues that others would address with professionals, are dealt with via counsel of church members.

So, Bobye Holt may very well be telling the truth.

I love that podcast- and I think the title origin story is absolutely adorable- which I think the podcaster would not mind me saying since he was a kid when the backstory occurred- probably a really cute kid. The kid with the journal he prayed would be put away was friends with Josh, and had a crush on one of his sisters.

 

[Shamrock1]

That's my only concern..... reason for appeal being ineffective counsel. Their single witness was inept at best.

I’m not sure why ineffective assistance of counsel keeps coming up. There’s no basis for it. None. Defense has made every expected motion & argument. The motions are well-researched and well-written. Their tech expert delivered some good sound bites. Their arguments insert as much reasonable doubt as possible. Defense is doing a nice job, given the facts of the case. Is this a stellar witness? Of course not. But “stellar” is not the standard.

If there is an appeal, it will be due to inclusion of molestation testimony.

JMO.

 

[mickey2942]

Does anyone think that there is a big problem when a grown man, with a job, needs some sort of computer "nanny", "Covenant Eyes"? Just the fact that Josh Duggar had "nanny" software, and had to bypass it...there is a problem here.

That is off the continuum of "normal", INMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Does anyone think that there is a big problem when a grown man, with a job, needs some sort of computer "nanny", "Covenant Eyes"? Just the fact that Josh Duggar had "nanny" software, and had to bypass it...there is a problem here.

That is off the continuum of "normal", INMO.

Normal in the Duggar's lifestyle.

Covenant Eyes helps you live -free with confidence.

Screen Accountability™ | Covenant Eyes

 

[Gardenista]

what does CSAM stand for?
I keep seeing it referenced in posts
guessing 'child sexual ... ' something or other?

It's the latest politically correct term for child rape and torture. Makes me sick.

 

[Bravo]

Josh is one depraved monster. I feel confident he will get his 3 hots and a cot.

 

[Shamrock1]

what does CSAM stand for?
I keep seeing it referenced in posts
guessing 'child sexual ... ' something or other?

Just to add: is entertainment provided by consenting adults. “CSAM” is admittedly clunky, but the intent is to make it clear that it is the recorded sexual abuse of children. “Child” is not a category of . JMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

I’m not sure why ineffective assistance of counsel keeps coming up. There’s no basis for it. None. Defense has made every expected motion & argument. The motions are well-researched and well-written. Their tech expert delivered some good sound bites. Their arguments insert as much reasonable doubt as possible. Defense is doing a nice job, given the facts of the case. Is this a stellar witness? Of course not. But “stellar” is not the standard.

If there is an appeal, it will be due to inclusion of molestation testimony.

JMO.

I’m not sure why ineffective assistance of counsel keeps coming up. There’s no basis for it. None. Defense has made every expected motion & argument. The motions are well-researched and well-written. Their tech expert delivered some good sound bites. Their arguments insert as much reasonable doubt as possible. Defense is doing a nice job, given the facts of the case. Is this a stellar witness? Of course not. But “stellar” is not the standard.

If there is an appeal, it will be due to inclusion of molestation testimony.

JMO.

Quote:
"If there is an appeal, it will be due to inclusion of molestation testimony."

From @Zella

I really don't think it's a concern. Per the judge, this is very common in these cases. In that district court, allowing prior abuse to be admitted has never led to an appeal, while, on the contrary, not allowing it has been successfully appealed.

Judge calls for evidentiary hearing during Josh Duggar child pre-trial conference

"The judge acknowledged taking 'a fairly deep dive' on rule 414, finding 'pretty strong case law' to admit the prior acts of molestation as evidence. He noted that the 8th circuit has never reversed a case of admitting it, while one case was reversed for not admitting such evidence."

 

[CharlestonGal]

Does anyone think that there is a big problem when a grown man, with a job, needs some sort of computer "nanny", "Covenant Eyes"? Just the fact that Josh Duggar had "nanny" software, and had to bypass it...there is a problem here.

That is off the continuum of "normal", INMO.

It would be "normal" for him. He has a history of sexually molesting 4 of his sisters (one as young as 5 years old) and one extrafamilial child victim. He has a history of rehab for addiction. He has a history of sexual affairs with women on Ashley Madison. He has a history of being sued by a sex worker he physically and sexually assaulted during a session.

If anyone needed monitoring, it was him. It should have been monitored by the courts instead of his enabling wife though. She knew about the 5 sexual assault child victims when she married him. Stayed with him through the and affairs and continued to have kids with him. He should have been monitored by a court - not his wife and not his church. jmo

*Trigger warning for graphic links*

Timeline of Josh Duggar's sexual abuse allegations

Danica Dillon Shares Explicit New Allegations of Violent Sex With Josh Duggar

 

[Shamrock1]

Quote:
"If there is an appeal, it will be due to inclusion of molestation testimony."

From @Zella

I really don't think it's a concern. Per the judge, this is very common in these cases. In that district court, allowing prior abuse to be admitted has never led to an appeal, while, on the contrary, not allowing it has been successfully appealed.

Judge calls for evidentiary hearing during Josh Duggar child pre-trial conference

"The judge acknowledged taking 'a fairly deep dive' on rule 414, finding 'pretty strong case law' to admit the prior acts of molestation as evidence. He noted that the 8th circuit has never reversed a case of admitting it, while one case was reversed for not admitting such evidence."

I agree - just opining that the basis of any appeal would be the admission of prior acts. I’m not getting into the viability of an appeal.

 

[mickey2942]

Day four summary
Anna with Josh Duggar at child trial but Jill & Jed don't testify

Defense rests today. Josh did not testify. Based on a review of who testified today, it doesn't look like anything that is going to be any great "smoking gun" to hang any potential "reasonable doubt". Looks like Jedidiah Duggar and Jill Dillard did not testify, even though they were both on the list for potential witnesses.

I don't see much here that helped Josh at all. INMO, he should have taken the plea.

 

[RickshawFan]

So, if he's convicted, what happens after that? Does he get hauled away in handcuffs? Does he go home to his current bedroom? What all?

 

[RickshawFan]

Does anyone think that there is a big problem when a grown man, with a job, needs some sort of computer "nanny", "Covenant Eyes"? Just the fact that Josh Duggar had "nanny" software, and had to bypass it...there is a problem here.

That is off the continuum of "normal", INMO.

I'm impressed (but not surprised) that there seems to be a market for software like this in "upright" communities. Makes me think it's a VERY widespread problem. I wonder what the profits are on that software?

And I wonder what the algorithm is (i.e. what causes it to register "I'm watching ") or if it registers what kind of sex (e.g. is there a "deviancy rating" as defined by the community)? Would it track the age of the on-screen participants? Does it screen for straight audio, but only video?Would it screen for sexy pop songs?

I looked it up on Google, but didn't click any links to the software for fear I'd get deluged with related ads. One spot says about $17 per month. That's a lot IMO. I'll bet it's not even very sophisticated.