Josh Duggar charged with Receipt/Possession Child Sexual Abuse Material, 29 April 2021 *guilty* #3

[Ruminations]

What this really shows, is the toxicity of hiding family secrets. And the fact that Josh Duggar never received the help he needed. Nor did his victims.

If the very first time, Josh had done this, and it seems to me that his victim DID tell her parents, it was minimized and basically ignored. Which is why the behavior continued and escalated. I suspect that there is much more we don't know. That even now, there are still a lot of secrets that the family will not acknowledge. MOO

This isn't uncommon, it is when it is ignored, minimized, and never dealt with professionally, that the problem grows exponentially.

The Duggars should have had Josh in intensive counseling from the beginning. And I also don't think that the church counseling he had after the "Ashley Madison" debacle made any changes. Obviously. It is sad to me, because I truly believe that professional therapy could have helped Josh Duggar. Before this mess.

Now, being that this is the internet and it does not matter that I am not a family therapist or otherwise licensed to jump into @rickshaw or @mickey2942 's fascinating conversation:

I think more healthy families are like sturdy mobiles- one moved piece impacts all but the family can adjust.

l think less healthy families are like fragile mobiles that can't survive movement, so every part has to rigidly stay in place or the whole thing crumbles.

 

[HawthorneJuniper]

Paging @gitana1 , do you have any input on this?

I would guess it was because he was not yet convicted, but now that he is they might be able to. But I have no actual basis for that, it's just my suspicions.

I am really, really scared for his children and what may have happened to them, or even just what they know about.

I've honestly had nightmares about this. When your wife is a baby factory and your an "offender". We know the family wouldn't ever acknowledge Josh as a problem, just as a repentant sinner who gets "grace" and goes right on with his offending. Without an outside force involved the full extent of his victims might never be known.

 

[HawthorneJuniper]

It's excruciatingly hard to have a spouse in prison, and now she has to be a single mom to 7 kids. And there aren't any federal prisons anywhere close, right? So visitation will be difficult. She is such a victim in all of this.

She is so dependent on Jim Bob. Her family is not at all well off as far as I know. Her Dad has a prison ministry. And she's been surrounded by family members who stick to the company line. I just HOPE, and it's just a faint hope, that something will wake her up. Outside intervention, Jill & Derek, something that can break the Jim Bob link and get her some objective assessment of her situation.

While I feel she is also a victim of this abusive system and perhaps Josh, she is also an adult women with many children who she is obligated to protect. Her religion won't make her liable but the law will. Someone should try to get through to her, particularly now.

 

[Ruminations]

Don't forget also that 1 of his 5 molestation victims from the early 2000s was a family friend/babysitter, so molestation of minor sisters, plus unrelated minor, plus CSAM charges. Makes me sick.

So far it has been reported that Anna won't allow CPS to question their kids for suspected abuse. (Court May Force Anna Duggar’s Hand On Examining Her Children and other sources). I wonder if they will legally be able to now without her permission.

I suppose now is an awesome time for Anna to tell her headship and his father that they blindsided her and told her she has to consent.

Otherwise, no. I don't think they could make her. Not without some other information aside from the conviction, IMO.

Good heavens, who wouldn't want the kids forensically interviewed, as long as they trust the interviewer.

 

[everlearning]

I'm very relieved that Josh was found guilty, because I believe it's pretty obvious to anyone (who wishes to know) that he is. I've seen many, many people in this world, Christians, atheists, and people of every stripe who, deep down, don't want to know the horror that is the reality of a person in their life who they love and trust. It can be devastating, and some people just can't face it. I've experienced the phenomenon "up close and personal" and it's incredibly disappointing for the people who do see it, because we are hurt as well, but choose the truth. Truth is hard.

I too am thrilled over Josh's guilty verdict. I really appreciate your comments I am quoting. There is so much truth in your words. "We are hurt as well, but choose the truth. Truth is hard." Thank you

 

[gitana1]

Paging @gitana1 , do you have any input on this?

I would guess it was because he was not yet convicted, but now that he is they might be able to. But I have no actual basis for that, it's just my suspicions.

I am really, really scared for his children and what may have happened to them, or even just what they know about.

Sadly, I don’t believe it does. I understand that CPS did try to question the kids initially but Anna did not allow it and this conviction does not generally create probable cause to be able to access the kids against their parents’ will. There has to be something more. And without being able to access the kids it may be impossible to find it.

I have been terrified for his kids since the day his oldest was born.

 

[Ruminations]

So, from my understanding, Covenant Eyes gathers screenshots of the user's web histories and these screenshots are analyzed by AI to screen for any viewing /general unapproved websites (this includes Reddit), and the data is sent to the user's "accountability buddy" which, in most instances (like this one), is the wife.

By email. Could you imagine taking time away from 6 kids and all that comes with caring for them- to sort out your emails and read reports on what a friggin grown up, who can't step away from his sticky computer long enough to go to lowes without dragging you along, pregnant, and with 6 children who (like you) now have to be selfie ready, has been up to online?

grrr.

 

[CrimeAway]

KNWA update:

https://www.nwahomepage.com/josh-du...l-ends-the-conclusion-and-the-guilty-verdict/

 

[Arkay]

Josh Duggar is found GUILTY on two counts of child | Daily Mail Online

Up to 40 years! Although I doubt it will be that long.

Lots of details here about the reaction of various Duggars who were in the courtroom.

 

[Springrain]

<modsnip: not victim friendly>

Sadly, I don’t believe it does. I understand that CPS did try to question the kids initially but Anna did not allow it and this conviction does not generally create probable cause to be able to access the kids against their parents’ will. There has to be something more. And without being able to access the kids it may be impossible to find it.

I have been terrified for his kids since the day his oldest was born.

Thank you gitana. I am sad to hear this.

By email. Could you imagine taking time away from 6 kids and all that comes with caring for them- to sort out your emails and read reports on what a friggin grown up, who can't step away from his sticky computer long enough to go to lowes without dragging you along, pregnant, and with 6 children who (like you) now have to be selfie ready, has been up to online?

grrr.

It's absurd IMO.

 

[meanmaryjean]

I would like to be privy to the conversations in the house of the folks who were housing this perv pre-trial. They must be so relieved!

 

[Sneaker33]

I've hesitated to comment on this thread because it's an incredibly emotionally charged subject and I disagree with much of the characterization of the Duggar's and their religion. (I'm not part of their religion.) However, I just couldn't help but add my two cents on this day:

I'm very relieved that Josh was found guilty, because I believe it's pretty obvious to anyone (who wishes to know) that he is. I've seen many, many people in this world, Christians, atheists, and people of every stripe who, deep down, don't want to know the horror that is the reality of a person in their life who they love and trust. It can be devastating, and some people just can't face it. I've experienced the phenomenon "up close and personal" and it's incredibly disappointing for the people who do see it, because we are hurt as well, but choose the truth. Truth is hard.

Secondly, I was struck by the smugness of Josh and, really, the "happy faces" of both he and Anna at times on their way to/from the courthouse on many occasions. Were he not guilty, or even if Anna believed firmly in his innocence, these charges are nothing to smile about. If I were charged with such horrific acts, I wouldn't think of smiling. How does one smile in the face of child rape, abuse, and torture? It's about the worst charge one can face in this life, innocent or not. What about the fact the SOMEONE did download that horror? What about those innocent victims? Those destroyed lives. How, again, does one smile?

Okay, back to reading.

I am pleased with the guilty verdict. I am sad for so many of the victims: the child who died and those who lived and loved them, victims unknown to us of which there are too many. There are also the 5 victims - 4 of who were Josh's siblings. I hope all understand this was not their fault. I think the smiling relates to the inability for those raised to suppress unpleasant emotions. It is a dangerous and unhealthy way to raise children. I hope this is a wake-up call for those raised to believe victims bare responsible. I know many siblings are in denial or have to struggle with knowing they were lied to and someone they once loved is unsafe to be in society. I hope the children are removed from physical custody from Anna if she continues to stand by Josh, JB and Michelle.

 

[HawthorneJuniper]

Sadly, I don’t believe it does. I understand that CPS did try to question the kids initially but Anna did not allow it and this conviction does not generally create probable cause to be able to access the kids against their parents’ will. There has to be something more. And without being able to access the kids it may be impossible to find it.

I have been terrified for his kids since the day his oldest was born.

I was afraid of that. I have no knowledge of CPS and their jurisdiction but was hoping there was some kind of "assessment" that could be triggered.

Maybe some small hope of Anna finding support outside the cult which would force her to confront reality.

 

[Zella]

KNWA reporting that prior to the sentencing, there will be a presentencing investigation. What would that cover?

Josh Duggar trial ends: The conclusion and the guilty verdict | KNWA FOX24

 

[Doghairrules]

Now that he has been found guilty, I wonder if there is concern over the safety of his children prior to the charges and subsequent bond stipulation that he only have supervised contact with them? The molestation of his minor sisters and CP charges are the only publicly known instances of him being caught/accused. Likely there is more and I don't think it's a big leap to think that he may have harmed his own children. Does anyone know if that has likely already been investigated or if that will be re-looked at now that he's convicted? I've seen a few unofficial statements/sources, but don't recall and can't find anything citable.

I too am wondering whether there will be an investigation into any possible assaults against his children if it hasn’t already been done. I’d be incredulous if he’s managed to keep his grimy paws to himself.

 

[Doghairrules]

Sadly, I don’t believe it does. I understand that CPS did try to question the kids initially but Anna did not allow it and this conviction does not generally create probable cause to be able to access the kids against their parents’ will. There has to be something more. And without being able to access the kids it may be impossible to find it.

I have been terrified for his kids since the day his oldest was born.

Why isn’t this enough to check on the kids though? Shouldn’t it be? He’s a sex offender now right? Or not? I too have been worried about those kids for years.

 

[Springrain]

Why isn’t this enough to check on the kids though? Shouldn’t it be? He’s a sex offender now right? Or not? I too have been worried about those kids for years.

His Wikipedia article says he is a sex offender. I assume he has to register as one.

 

[gitana1]

<modsnip> The Bible is filled with warnings that what is done in secret will be found out. I'm very relieved Josh has been found guilty.

Now for my unpopular opinion. I do feel terrible for Anna. I know she's stood by him, she's blamed others, and so on, but I can't help it. This is not what she thought she was getting in a husband. I believe she was convinced that what he'd done to his sisters and the babysitter was teenage temptation and milder than what he'd actually done to them.
I mean, this is a family who were taught "Nike," to look down at their feet when a girl walked by that might give them evil thoughts. I don't think she was equipped to deal with the secret, actual Josh.

My heart breaks for his children. In all ways. Jim Bob had better provide for them now since he provided a husband for Anna when he already knew Josh had done sickening things.

JMO.

I agree with you up to a point. She is now much older than when she got married. She’s had seven kids. She lived in DC and associated with others through an exercise group of some sort. She went through the Ashley Madison crisis. She also has two siblings who are not in the sect and one publicly denounced Josh BEFORE this arrest and offered to assist her and house her and her kids if she wanted help. She has a sister who was a single mom, and she associates with her. So she has now been exposed to other points of view.

I think she has the ability and thus the responsibility to protect her kids. Hopefully this verdict will open her eyes and she will make sure her kids are okay and weren’t harmed by him.

 

[fridaybaker]

One more thing before I go back to "read only mode": I find it quite irritating that the media keeps referencing this as CP, rather than Child Sexual Assault. Actually, I'd never heard the term until I read this thread, but there's really no excuse for the media. It should only take coming across the more correct descriptive to never use the euphemistic CP again. No excuses. Never again. It is ASSAULT.

 

[gitana1]

Why isn’t this enough to check on the kids though? Shouldn’t it be? He’s a sex offender now right? Or not? I too have been worried about those kids for years.

It’s enough for an investigation. It’s enough to try to check on the kids. It’s not enough to force interviews, however, without more. Because being into accessing these materials online doesn’t create probable cause (IMO) that he harmed specific kids, without more.

He may be barred from in-person, unsupervised contact with his own kids, however, after his eventual release from prison, while they’re still minors. I hope so. And I hope it’s professional supervision. Not a wife trained to submit to her husband.