Judge Orders Bush Administration to Resume Paying for Katrina Housing

[windovervocalcords]

How many of them were on public assistance before Katrina?

I posted the statistics on other Katrina threads. It is way smaller than you think.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I posted the statistics on other Katrina threads. It is way smaller than you think.

Well those are the people that I have serious questions about. It may be a smaller amount, but I don't think my tax money should have to continue supporting them. For the others, what is it that makes it necessary for them to continue to need aid? Can they not find jobs? Do they need to relocate? Do they need child care? I mean what's the deal?

 

[windovervocalcords]

Well those are the people that I have serious questions about. It may be a smaller amount, but I don't think my tax money should have to continue supporting them. For the others, what is it that makes it necessary for them to continue to need aid? Can they not find jobs? Do they need to relocate? Do they need child care? I mean what's the deal?

Those are good questions. Why not look into it further, research the situation and ask how can we as Americans help our neighbors?

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

30,000 people in FEMA trailers do you propose kicking them out into the streets February 2007?

What percentage of those 30,000 do you think are fraudsters?

I was interested in hearing your opinion/solution, rather than harping on Bush, etc. and what FEMA/all gov't did wrong. It went bad in '05, it did. But...what do you propose happen NOW? We can continue to all we want or try to look forward. You didn't have to answer, and you chose not to. (ETA: Just noticed you did add more to your post now).

I was sincere in my interest in your ideas for making an ugly situation better and fair and reasonable; even though I do find offense to your comment about housewives watching too much Fox. I thought you of all people don't like stereotypes, etc. and you did just slam people that have a different belief system than you, IMO.

I watch Fox, and am not ashamed to say it. I agree with some of it, I don't agree with some of it. So what. And I work outside the home (not that that should matter, there are housewives that have brains and can distinguish between right/wrong and fluff)...and in my former and present career, I work with those that DO try to outwit/outfox the governmental systems, etc. Not all, but many. Many. Do I also see amazingly wonderful stories of success, etc? Absolutely. I will not stick up for all people being great, nor will I say all people are scam artists. There are both. For those that have seen more than their fair share of people who DO take advantage, their life experiences have been skewed (maybe, at times) by that, just as your take on people may be (maybe, maybe not, not jumping to conclusions) more slanted to see the good in people. Is any one side better than the other? Respect goes both ways, IMO.

Off my soapbox.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Why not look into it further and ask how can we help? What if they were your relatives?

One of them was, but he helped himself and we helped him. He didn't sit around on his butt sucking up your tax dollars.

 

[windovervocalcords]

One of them was, but he helped himself and we helped him. He didn't sit around on his butt sucking up your tax dollars.

My tax dollars are being sucked up along with the lives of some dear young men I care about for this senseless war in Iraq.

I would rather see my tax dollars spent in humanitarian efforts at home and abroad.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Deputy

I appreciate your post. There are 30,000 people in FEMA trailers. Should we kick them out into the streets February 2007?

What percentage of those 30,000 do you think are fraudsters?

I will get back to you with alternate ideas. There has to be some balance. I am reacting to knee jerk responses by some posters that I have heard my whole career. If you do not work with the poor it is very easy to make snap judgments. This is what I am speaking to. Not any one particular poster.

I have seen some really ugly threads on the Katrina topic where racism did arise.

My fuse is short on this topic. I have worked to champion the poor too many years and I have worked with racial and ethnic minorities my entire life.

Its true that we have armchair judgers who sit back in comfortable circumstances and make broad sweeping negative generalizations about vast numbers of people. This bothers me.

There! That's more along the lines of a nice response I expected from you. :blushing: Thanks. I was sincere in my request. If you've worked with the poor all your life, you must have some good recommendations about how to balance the truly needy who are trying to be productive, along with those who do tend to sit back and watch the world go by and wait for someone else to take responsibility.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

My tax dollars are being sucked up along with the lives of some dear young men I care about for this senseless war in Iraq.

I would rather see my tax dollars spent in humanitarian efforts at home and abroad.

It would have been nice to have a conversation that didn't end up with the war. I'm not for it. Didn't want it. Don't want to continue it. But I'm not talking about that now, I'm talking about Hurricane Katrina and why people still need my tax dollars.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I was interested in hearing your opinion/solution, rather than harping on Bush, etc. and what FEMA/all gov't did wrong. It went bad in '05, it did. But...what do you propose happen NOW? We can continue to all we want or try to look forward. You didn't have to answer, and you chose not to. (ETA: Just noticed you did add more to your post now).

I was sincere in my interest in your ideas for making an ugly situation better and fair and reasonable; even though I do find offense to your comment about housewives watching too much Fox. I thought you of all people don't like stereotypes, etc. and you did just slam people that have a different belief system than you, IMO.

I watch Fox, and am not ashamed to say it. I agree with some of it, I don't agree with some of it. So what. And I work outside the home (not that that should matter, there are housewives that have brains and can distinguish between right/wrong and fluff)...and in my former and present career, I work with those that DO try to outwit/outfox the governmental systems, etc. Not all, but many. Many. Do I also see amazingly wonderful stories of success, etc? Absolutely. I will not stick up for all people being great, nor will I say all people are scam artists. There are both. For those that have seen more than their fair share of people who DO take advantage, their life experiences have been skewed (maybe, at times) by that, just as your take on people may be (maybe, maybe not, not jumping to conclusions) more slanted to see the good in people. Is any one side better than the other? Respect goes both ways, IMO.

Off my soapbox.

You have thoughtful posts. I wish I had the time to answer many of your questions one at a time. I do have ideas because I have an interest in ideas.., Some folks are complaining that I criticize the government. True. I do. They say that of me at the same time they harp on and criticise all the "fraudsters".

I did lose my patience. Regarding my post, if the shoe does not fit, then don't wear it.

 

[2sisters]

So wind, completley off topic here, I have been thinking about your housewife comment and am a little peeved by it. I am a proud housewife. We live on a TIGHT budget (hubby teaches) I enjoy my time at home, I love my kids and i am glad I can be with them daily. So doe that mean i am not entitled to an opinion? am I stupid with no useful views and thoughts? Maybe you misspoke, I don't know, maybe you meant it differently that how it came out. I just couldn't help but be offended.

 

[czechmate7]

Well those are the people that I have serious questions about. It may be a smaller amount, but I don't think my tax money should have to continue supporting them. For the others, what is it that makes it necessary for them to continue to need aid? Can they not find jobs? Do they need to relocate? Do they need child care? I mean what's the deal?

:clap: My exact thoughts.
I was driving down St Charles Ave a month or two ago and saw McDonalds hiring, it was either 12 or 13 dollars an hour...

 

[windovervocalcords]

So wind, completley off topic here, I have been thinking about your housewife comment and am a little peeved by it. I am a proud housewife. We live on a TIGHT budget (hubby teaches) I enjoy my time at home, I love my kids and i am glad I can be with them daily. So doe that mean i am not entitled to an opinion? am I stupid with no useful views and thoughts? Maybe you misspoke, I don't know, maybe you meant it differently that how it came out. I just couldn't help but be offended.

I am sorry to have offended you.

What I meant by my post is that alot of people sit back in their comfortable situations and make nasty comments about people who are still suffering. They make pronouncements about others as if they are able to read the minds of multitudes and find them lacking in character, not worthy of compassion.

I find those kind of statements highly offensive and I lost my temper. There are some highly critical snippy voices I hear on these thread from posters living priveleged lives. That kind of thing bugs me. I have been in the trenches with the poor my whole career.

So put my comment in that context. I have no objection to stay at home parenting. Except that some priveleged folks do not want poor people to have the same option.

Here is an article:
http://understandingkatrina.ssrc.org/Molotch/

 

[windovervocalcords]

The Beaufort (S.C.) Gazette, on Hurricane Katrina victims:
The heartbreak and tragedy that swept over Americans in 2005, especially Gulf Coast residents, was not repeated this year, but it doesn't mean that pain from Hurricane Katrina has subsided. ...
While 2006 has spared devastating damage, many of the people who were rendered homeless by Katrina face a bleak outlook for a permanent home. ... Thousands of residents still live in FEMA trailers.
But even a home in a trailer that many would find inadequate is about to run out, according to The Sun Herald in Biloxi, Miss. Unless federal policy changes by Feb. 28, 2007, people living in the trailers must find another place to live.
Unprecedented storms require extraordinary relief efforts, and it should be reasonable that when Congress returns to work in a lame duck session or immediately after the new Congress arrives in January, an extension would be granted. ...
http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_4742633

 

[czechmate7]

I am sorry to have offended you.

What I meant by my post is that alot of people sit back in their comfortable situations and make nasty comments about people who are still suffering. They make pronouncements about others as if they are able to read the minds of multitudes and find them lacking in character, not worthy of compassion.

I find those kind of statements highly offensive and I lost my temper. There are some highly critical snippy voices I hear on these thread from posters living priveleged lives. That kind of thing bugs me. I have been in the trenches with the poor my whole career.

So put my comment in that context. I have no objection to stay at home parenting. Except that some priveleged folks do not want poor people to have the same option.

Wind, don't know exactly who your post is directed at...but I will tell you I am not a housewife (had to work my entire life...well, since legal working age), I proudly served in our US military (in Desert Storm.); took advantage of the GI bill to pay for college (my family could not afford to send me).
Now, I work full time, am a single mother to a disabled child and take as many classes as my schedule allows me. So, I hope you weren't directing that statement toward me......Am I being paranoid??

 

[windovervocalcords]

It would have been nice to have a conversation that didn't end up with the war. I'm not for it. Didn't want it. Don't want to continue it. But I'm not talking about that now, I'm talking about Hurricane Katrina and why people still need my tax dollars.

I am referencing the war because of the topic of fraud for obvious reasons. Where are those lost dollars?

Also what do we choose to allocate our public funds on? Humanity or violence?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I am referencing the war because of the topic of fraud for obvious reasons. Where are those lost dollars?

Also what do we choose to allocate our public funds on? Humanity or violence?

Personally I'm against the war, so I don't want any of my tax dollars to go there. I'm also against people living on public assistance who don't need to be on it, so I don't want any of my tax dollars go there either. I don't see it as an "either or" situation though. If people still need assistance because of the hurricane, I would like to know why and what kind of assistance they need to get on their feet. I don't think just continuing to pay their way through life is the answer.

 

[BhamMama]

Well those are the people that I have serious questions about. It may be a smaller amount, but I don't think my tax money should have to continue supporting them. For the others, what is it that makes it necessary for them to continue to need aid? Can they not find jobs? Do they need to relocate? Do they need child care? I mean what's the deal?

I obviously can't speak for everyone but I can tell you about family and friends who deal with this.

First off, most of these people paid taxes too. I'm not sure what proof anyone should have to give to anyone to answer questions. We are not companies who have to put out a statement of I earned this and this is how I spent it etc. Because if you are gonna do it for one group, they'd expect all to do it. That's pushing it a bit I think.

As for jobs...well yeah some are hiring, but what they aren't telling you is how are you gonna get there, that 13 dollars an hour is for 20 hours, not 40. Only in the Quarter and the warehouse district are things going pretty steady as far as jobs.

You may see a mickey d's open but right next to it is a closed strip mall. That mickey d's may be the only thing open. We have a lot of college people here and they tend to want those kinds of jobs but with no transportation to get there...and metro buses and street cars aren't totally up to standards everywhere yet or with the little pay for the time you'd spend getting there, well, it's hard to figure out what to do. A guy my husband works with would get up at 4 am, walk a few blockes, take a bus as far as the street car line, take it for a few blocks then walked the rest. He has to leave at 3 everyday because the buses don't run at night and he don't want to walk home in the dark. He's done this for 8 months.

Plus walking to get groceries, walk his kids to school, to Church...anywhere at all. All his money goes to rent and food, no extra to buy a car. Cause even though he lived in that house for 6 years before Katrina, his landlord saw others getting more money for their property so upped it. It was pay or be homeless. The company recently gave his family a company car that is not the best but when you have nothing I'm sure it was a gift he is very grateful for. This is the reality of the working poor.

My cousin H just moved back in with her parents because she can't afford 960 a month for rent on a tiny 1 bedroom apartment closer to school. What childcare she could find is just as expensive but she has to pay that to go to school so no apartment for her.

You have to pick one, a job that pays crap or food. Seriously. Rent is crazy here, buying a home is crazy here. Now some may be able to afford 2500 a month for a three bedroom home, I don't know those people. Add in that there are certain parts you just don't want to go to, it narrows it down.

Plus, the numbers state that NO is only back to 40% of the population. Most jobs that people are taking are construction jobs or they go the Northshore (across the lake). The people that worked other jobs before now live in Baton Rouge or Houston, or Birmingham, Atlanta or points north. Baton Rouge is 90 miles from NO. With gas prices, most are not going to drive that far twice a day for Mickey d's.

I can honestly tell you, most don't want to relocate. This is their home. Like it or not, this is their world. I was born in Birmingham, moved back right before Katrina. But where am I now? Right back in Louisiana. For all it's bad points, it is a wonderful city with a culture and way of life like no other. This may not be the city of my birth but it is the city of my heart. I wanted to be a part of the growth back. I, along with hundreds of others, deal with a lot of crap to be able to be hands on with a city we love.

The majority of trailers house people who are working on their homes. I made a post about that on this thread. And if you start taking them away, good people will suffer too. They are doing what they can but you can't expect a whole entire city to be rebuilt in one year. They are projecting more like 3-5 years for things to be better.

Good news though, out of 11 hospitals, we had one open and we are up to 3 now! Letters are moving out to some people, I think they said 45 in my area. That may not seem alot, but believe me, it's huge compared to waiting.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Wind, don't know exactly who your post is directed at...but I will tell you I am not a housewife (had to work my entire life...well, since legal working age), I proudly served in our US military (in Desert Storm.); took advantage of the GI bill to pay for college (my family could not afford to send me).
Now, I work full time, am a single mother to a disabled child and take as many classes as my schedule allows me. So, I hope you weren't directing that statement toward me......Am I being paranoid??

Day in an day out I work with poor people who work hard just like you do. I work in a poor rural community. Welfare to work is the program we have.

I do not work in the welfare system but I work in a non-profit employment agency. We put people to work and help them overcome their barriers to employment.

There is a real shortage of work available in our community.

There are a few bad apples but most people work hard and do not want to be on welfare. And literally they have to work 32 hours a week for a very small grant( sometimes $300. a month) . It is more economically to their benefit to work.

BTW I will continue to bring up racism because it does exist. It factors into the equation.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I obviously can't speak for everyone but I can tell you about family and friends who deal with this.

First off, most of these people paid taxes too. I'm not sure what proof anyone should have to give to anyone to answer questions. We are not companies who have to put out a statement of I earned this and this is how I spent it etc. Because if you are gonna do it for one group, they'd expect all to do it. That's pushing it a bit I think.

As for jobs...well yeah some are hiring, but what they aren't telling you is how are you gonna get there, that 13 dollars an hour is for 20 hours, not 40. Only in the Quarter and the warehouse district are things going pretty steady as far as jobs.

You may see a mickey d's open but right next to it is a closed strip mall. That mickey d's may be the only thing open. We have a lot of college people here and they tend to want those kinds of jobs but with no transportation to get there...and metro buses and street cars aren't totally up to standards everywhere yet or with the little pay for the time you'd spend getting there, well, it's hard to figure out what to do. A guy my husband works with would get up at 4 am, walk a few blockes, take a bus as far as the street car line, take it for a few blocks then walked the rest. He has to leave at 3 everyday because the buses don't run at night and he don't want to walk home in the dark. He's done this for 8 months.

Plus walking to get groceries, walk his kids to school, to Church...anywhere at all. All his money goes to rent and food, no extra to buy a car. Cause even though he lived in that house for 6 years before Katrina, his landlord saw others getting more money for their property so upped it. It was pay or be homeless. The company recently gave his family a company car that is not the best but when you have nothing I'm sure it was a gift he is very grateful for. This is the reality of the working poor.

My cousin H just moved back in with her parents because she can't afford 960 a month for rent on a tiny 1 bedroom apartment closer to school. What childcare she could find is just as expensive but she has to pay that to go to school so no apartment for her.

You have to pick one, a job that pays crap or food. Seriously. Rent is crazy here, buying a home is crazy here. Now some may be able to afford 2500 a month for a three bedroom home, I don't know those people. Add in that there are certain parts you just don't want to go to, it narrows it down.

Plus, the numbers state that NO is only back to 40% of the population. Most jobs that people are taking are construction jobs or they go the Northshore (across the lake). The people that worked other jobs before now live in Baton Rouge or Houston, or Birmingham, Atlanta or points north. Baton Rouge is 90 miles from NO. With gas prices, most are not going to drive that far twice a day for Mickey d's.

I can honestly tell you, most don't want to relocate. This is their home. Like it or not, this is their world. I was born in Birmingham, moved back right before Katrina. But where am I now? Right back in Louisiana. For all it's bad points, it is a wonderful city with a culture and way of life like no other. This may not be the city of my birth but it is the city of my heart. I wanted to be a part of the growth back. I, along with hundreds of others, deal with a lot of crap to be able to be hands on with a city we love.

The majority of trailers house people who are working on their homes. I made a post about that on this thread. And if you start taking them away, good people will suffer too. They are doing what they can but you can't expect a whole entire city to be rebuilt in one year. They are projecting more like 3-5 years for things to be better.

Good news though, out of 11 hospitals, we had one open and we are up to 3 now! Letters are moving out to some people, I think they said 45 in my area. That may not seem alot, but believe me, it's huge compared to waiting.

Thank you very much for this information. Unfortunately, there are going to have to be people who will have to relocate or other things they don't want to do. Its a sad fact of life, but it is the fact.

 

[czechmate7]

BTW I will continue to bring up racism because it does exist. It factors into the equation.

If you must....why don't we just agree to disagree