Judge's Order re: OP's Mental Health Eval

[Angela Carr]

He was mortified , alrighty.. Mortified that he was on the receiving end of a justified accusation and investigation by the one organisation he had such contempt for, the SAPS.. mortified that his private life was exposed, mortified that he was in such deep that Henke would turn his back on him again , mortified that Arthur would have to stump up funds, after chipping in for Carl, mortified among his gun totin' shootin' friends that he had made a murdering blithering idiot of himself yet again with a gun, mortified that the enemy, W.O. Botha was wandering thru his house at will, shouting orders at him, mortified that he would actually have to account for his actions in a court of law, because up until then, it was Oscar who took people and organisations to court, ( Caassidy Merony-Taylor, the SA Olympic commiitte, the World Olympic Committee, etc )and trounced them and now .. he is in the mortifying position of being on the rough end of the pineapple..

Love your saying "rough end of the pineapple". I haven't heard that before.
It would be very prickly indeed!

 

[toevlugsoord]

Further, did Reeva call/text Frank for assistance? Given that it was possible, it is amazing that such questions have not been put before the Court IMO. Reeva may have called/texted Frank, OP may have countered that call/text. It's not impossible as it seems likely to have been a domestic argument that night before the shooting. MOO

It's almost enough to make me give up watching the rest of the trial.
Frank is the key, and yet he "knows nothing."
What about subpoenas? Can they not subpoena him to testify?
He could solve this whole case in an instant.
So very frustrating that he is barely being mentioned at all!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JudgeJudi]

The odd part about Frank.. Frank , Frank .. where are you ,Frank? .. is that no one, no other person mentioned him except Carise.. was it a slip up?? I just don't know. Baba didn't mention Frank, Dr Stipp didn't mention Frank, Standar didn't, Van Rensburg didn't.. he just suddenly appeared up from the floorboards in a puff of sulphur in Carise's testimony. He walked, he talked, he was dressed , at 3.27am, he lived and breathed, and then , poof!!.. gone!!..

I don’t believe that Frank, OP’s longtime housekeeper/caretaker/gardener, was in the house at all. His living quarters were immediately outside the kitchen. OP never mentioned him being in the house.

Ever since Frank was first mentioned and it was stated that he saw and heard nothing as he had been asleep at the time, I’ve been of the firm belief that he heard a great deal, and possibly may have seen something. The very fact that he was out the front of the house talking to a security guard before anyone arrived at the scene makes this pretty obvious. You don’t get up some time after 3.00am and loiter in the driveway having a casual chat with a security guard for no reason at all. Apparently he was initially prepared to give a statement. Something then happened to change his mind.

I believe he’s been paid hush money by the Pistorius family. Obviously he wouldn’t have been earning much money, and he’s still in their employ. They probably offered him a job for life together with a substantial increase in pay and/or a lump sum. There’s never been mention that I’ve heard of him having a family so he’s got everything to gain. However if he did tell what he knew, the Pistorius family being well-connected, could make it pretty hard for him to ever get a good job again, at least in that neck of the wood IMO.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Thanks for the link - I read it, somewhat bleary eyed and a bit too foggy to take it all in at this time in the morning. One thing I did note though was:

'But section 60(11) of the Criminal Procedure Act provides for an exception to this general rule. It states that where an accused is charged with planned or premeditated murder; ... the court must deny bail unless the accused can prove to the court that “exceptional circumstances exist which in the interests of justice permit his or her release”.

I still cannot see what 'exceptional circumstances' existed in this case though obviously the judge saw some. From this admittedly hurried reading there also seems to be some weight placed on the fact that at the time of the bail hearing the accused had yet to be charged with 'premeditated murder'. I don't get that bit as I thought he had been charged. Anyway of course I'd bow to his greater knowledge of the law, though he should consider using a proofreader.

Re the comment about 'so-called OP supporters': the day people stop claiming 'confirmation bias' against those who have watched the trial and come to their conclusions is the day I'll stop labelling them as 'supporters'.

Here's a useful article on bail from the SA Dept of Justice and Criminal Development.

http://www.justice.gov.za/faq/faq-bail.html

 

[G.bng]

So, Gryffindor - did you ever find a similar case to OP where the killer wasn't prosecuted? I did ask earlier and you didn't reply, so I'm not sure if that's because you weren't able to find something similar. If you don't answer, I'll assume you weren't able to find a case where someone with a prior history of reckless gun usage shot his partner 4 times in a toilet and then claimed he thought it was an intruder? And wasn't prosecuted? You did say there were cases like this where no one was prosecuted, so I'd like to see a similar example.

Any one of the cases you generalised about will do. Thanks.

OP doesn't by legally "have a history of reckless gun use", at least not yet and not until Masipa's judgement is in for those events which are being tried at the same time. And the Masipa will not be able to use them for her judgement on the murder or culpable homicide charges anyway, not even let them influence her and she can't even slip them in either because she has to use logical reasoning for her judgement and write it all in a judgement.

 

[jassy writer]

In fact, just to elaborate on my earlier statement... this is what really annoys me about OP's claims.

Yes, South Africa is not perfect, and yes, we do have high levels of crime compared to many other countries. But we do not have crime to the extent that OP is claiming. We do not have multiple cases of people shooting their own friends and relatives because we all live in such fear of intruders gaining access.

People in security estates generally do feel very safe - that is why they pay a premium to live there. OP's neighbours locking their bedroom doors would be the exception in an estate like that, rather than the rule.

So now, in order to concoct a plausible story for his actions, OP is taking the cowardly way out by blaming his predicament on South Africa, rather than on himself. The country that has given him so many opportunities, the country whose flag he carried at the recent Olympics... to save his own sorry skin, he is turning his back on that country, claiming it is a place riddled by crime, where not even those living in top security estates can feel safe, where he himself is in so much fear of crime that it contributes to his "anxiety" disorder.

And, furthermore, he goes on to blame the police, who did their absolute best to investigate a crime scene that had already been contaminated by OP himself. It really makes me angry. To me, it is a very low and cowardly action.

Never mind that if an intruder were somehow, magically, to have gained access to OP's house, they would have chosen to enter through an unprotected downstairs window, rather than climbing a ladder up a fortress-high wall to try and squeeze in through the smallest windown in the house, into a room where there were no valuables, while downstairs, there would have been a treasure trove of electrical goods there for the taking!

 

[lithgow1]

Thanks a lot for that post above jassywriter - it's always interesting IMO to read a South African's perspective on these issues rather than, for example, some American lawyer's view that the prosecutor's approach wouldn't be tolerated in the USA.

This is an interesting little report for anyone twiddling their thumbs while they wait;

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-27467169

 

[supernovaNic]

Trying to fantasize what special treatment Oscar will be granted this time.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Trying to fantasize what special treatment Oscar will be granted this time.

For starters, how about a young, blonde and very pretty social worker to soothe him before and after each and every one of his many interviews. How about a special diet tailored for an Olympian. And how about his own personal green bucket to take with him to those interviews.

 

[Trooper]

just to re state for those who switch to the last page.. this thread will be the thread for todays court session.. don't panic!!..

 

[lithgow1]

While we're waiting, in terms of his athletics career, would OP have been reaching the end of it? I don't follow athletics so am not sure what the optimum age for a runner is. Now if he were a racehorse, I'd have more of an idea.

 

[Trooper]

In fact, just to elaborate on my earlier statement... this is what really annoys me about OP's claims.

Yes, South Africa is not perfect, and yes, we do have high levels of crime compared to many other countries. But we do not have crime to the extent that OP is claiming. We do not have multiple cases of people shooting their own friends and relatives because we all live in such fear of intruders gaining access.

People in security estates generally do feel very safe - that is why they pay a premium to live there. OP's neighbours locking their bedroom doors would be the exception in an estate like that, rather than the rule.

So now, in order to concoct a plausible story for his actions, OP is taking the cowardly way out by blaming his predicament on South Africa, rather than on himself. The country that has given him so many opportunities, the country whose flag he carried at the recent Olympics... to save his own sorry skin, he is turning his back on that country, claiming it is a place riddled by crime, where not even those living in top security estates can feel safe, where he himself is in so much fear of crime that it contributes to his "anxiety" disorder.

And, furthermore, he goes on to blame the police, who did their absolute best to investigate a crime scene that had already been contaminated by OP himself. It really makes me angry. To me, it is a very low and cowardly action.

Never mind that if an intruder were somehow, magically, to have gained access to OP's house, they would have chosen to enter through an unprotected downstairs window, rather than climbing a ladder up a fortress-high wall to try and squeeze in through the smallest windown in the house, into a room where there were no valuables, while downstairs, there would have been a treasure trove of electrical goods there for the taking!

Thanks for this insight, Jassy.. much appreciated.. one of the most outrageous claims his psyche made, Vorster, was this..

That Oscar's anxiety disorder.. the long term one, the one he's had since he was 11 months old, pffft, is completely curable, and apparently able to be discarded, then picked up again... She said, he doesn't have this disorder when OUTSIDE SOUTH AFRICA!!.. he can store it in a locked box at Tambo Airport, , arrive at Leonardo da Vinci airport in Rome completely disorder free!! then, upon arrival back in SA< this mystery disorder reasserts itself and he is helpless in it's grip!!.

I ask you!.. is that not psycho babble of the most blatant category?

 

[Trooper]

there would be millions upon millions of Italians who would cry with laughter at that claim of Vorsters..

 

[JudgeJudi]

Apologies for this OT post, but just while it's quiet and for the very few Aussies here, have you been reading about the trial re the Lin family massacre in North Epping that occurred in 2009. One of the worst multiple homicides in NSW history. It was just a couple of doors down the street where my parents lived. My dad bought his daily newspaper from Mr Lin.

 

[supernovaNic]

Oscar Radio is getting ready to start I think. It says 9:00a.m. (I think whoopwhoop is what you guys call Oscar Radio.)

http://whoopwhoop.tv/pistoriusradio.htm

 

[lithgow1]

Apologies for this OT post, but just while it's quiet and for the very few Aussies here, have you been reading about the trial re the Lin family massacre in North Epping that occurred in 2009. One of the worst multiple homicides in NSW history. It was just a couple of doors down the street where my parents lived. My dad bought his daily newspaper from Mr Lin.

I recall it if it's the one where the son killed his parents and sister. Is it back in the news for some reason? I'm Australian but currently live o/s.

 

[Trooper]

While we're waiting, in terms of his athletics career, would OP have been reaching the end of it? I don't follow athletics so am not sure what the optimum age for a runner is. Now if he were a racehorse, I'd have more of an idea.

His sprinting days were almost over. He could go on into middle distance, or even long distance ( highly unlikely ).. he would be competing against 19yr olds, and upwards.. he will be 30 by 2016, Brazil. To use the racehorse analogy, he is about ready for the knackers yard.

 

[supernovaNic]

His sprinting days were almost over. He could go on into middle distance, or even long distance ( highly unlikely ).. he would be competing against 19yr olds, and upwards.. he will be 30 by 2016, Brazil. To use the racehorse analogy, he is about ready for the knackers yard.

You know the guy that beat him. The one that had longer cheetah legs. Has he gained popularity at all? Did Oscar lose some of his fans to this guy?

 

[JudgeJudi]

I recall it if it's the one where the son killed his parents and sister. Is it back in the news for some reason? I'm Australian but currently live o/s.

No, that was another matter. This is where the brother-in-law who lived just around the corner from the Lin family sneaked into the house in the middle of the night and killed the parents, 2 of their 3 children (3rd child was overseas at the time) and Mrs Lin's sister. It was so horrendous they could only identify the bodies by forensics.

 

[lithgow1]

His sprinting days were almost over. He could go on into middle distance, or even long distance ( highly unlikely ).. he would be competing against 19yr olds, and upwards.. he will be 30 by 2016, Brazil. To use the racehorse analogy, he is about ready for the knackers yard.

Thanks for that - I was thinking that he may well have been in the autumn years of his career. It would also make sense that he would be very averse to bad publicity if, perhaps, he was hoping to maintain a public profile as say a sport's commentator.