Kansas teen won't apologize to governor's office for Twitter post

[TrackerSam]

And so this teenager feels she has public support to express herself no matter how disrespectful, rude or inappropriate her comments are?

A sad commentary on so many issues...

She should have public support because the public supports free speech. Free speech protects unpopular speech. Popular speech doesn't need to be protected. How else would you like it to be? Should there be a committee who decides how one may express themselves? There are exceptions, like yelling fire in a crowded theater, but anything anyone says, no matter how rude, disrespectful or inappropiate it is, in your opinion, we all enjoy the right to say it, post it, email it, tweet it and in whatever form of communication available. Or do we need your permission?

 

[LimeCola]

She should have public support because the public supports free speech. Free speech protects unpopular speech. Popular speech doesn't need to be protected. How else would you like it to be? Should there be a committee who decides how one may express themselves? There are exceptions, like yelling fire in a crowded theater, but anything anyone says, no matter how rude, disrespectful or inappropiate it is, in your opinion, we all enjoy the right to say it, post it, email it, tweet it and in whatever form of communication available. Or do we need your permission?

Need my permission? What's that about?

I think I articulated my position fairly clearly near the beginning of the thread:

I don't think that free speech guarantees that one can say anything they want without consequence.

The student was on a school field trip, and thus, an ambassador of the school during their time there.

Telling anybody that "they suck" (especially without saying why you might think that) is rude. I'm not sure that parents are doing their child a service by supporting this kind of lazy thinking.

A more appropriate response from the school would, in my opinion, be to have the student write a respectful letter about why they disapprove of the Governor's leadership.

I have no issue with this young woman having an unpopular opinion, nor with her issue to say it, tweet it, or put it in skywriting if she so chooses.

My issue is that she was on a school field trip at the time. I expect students to exhibit some decorum at an official event. I think it was rude and disrespectful to post such a crass tweet during the event.

From my perspective, the school was well within their right to be embarrassed by the student's behavior. My problem is about the context in which her tweet was made.

I am not suggesting that her freedoms be limited in any way. I am suggesting that it would be nice to see her parents hold her to a higher standard of communication (which she is obviously capable of, when she later told the media that her main issue with the Governor was about a reduction to funding from the arts).

I think it is unfortunate that in the name of "free speech", people are going out of their way to support what is essentially a ridiculous comment. Of course she is free to say that the Governor "sucks", but do we really need to celebrate and congratulate her for expressing herself in an incoherently and vulgar manner?

 

[Chewy]

I read the article to my 16 yr old high school junior and asked her opinion without telling her mine. Her response was that she did not feel that the letter of apology was enough. She said the girl was a senior (someone younger students may look up to), on a school field trip (probably not supposed to be tweeting during a school trip), and insulted someone who they visited on the trip. She also said that if the girl didn't like the governor she could have just stayed home that day. That in the future if she disagrees with someones political policies that she should state details of why and not just rudely say they suck... My daughter said if this had happened at her school that punishment probably would have been a day of in school suspension and a letter of apology. She went on to say that this girls actions make high school students opinions look irrelevant to adults. Just thought I would share the opinion of someone similar in age to the Kansas student.

Of course my daughter is not an average high school student, at least not IMO. She is highly interested in politics watches CSPAN and all debates both national and local. She spent election night in Nov on the courthouse lawn here listening to the votes being called out. She is hoping to major in political science and already writes as a contributing author to a large political blog that is geared to young adults. (Can you tell I am a proud mama? lol)

Good for you! The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Parents set the standards. I don't necessarily agree with your daughter, I just think the teen was rude. But this goes to show that the parents set the standards. If you raise your child by using crude low class language, as these parents obviously did, then of course they won't think there is anything wrong with it either.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Here's the rub: I don't think most of the people who jumped on this do know anything about twitter (including some of the governor's staffers and a lot of the MSM). It is kind of like a facebook post, which someone who is not her friend would have to search out. So, very much like a public (depending on your settings) conversation that someone else might or might not overhear.

A teen posting on facebook or twitter that the governor sucks is completely different than printing it in a newspaper (even a digital version), saying it on the radio (or a podcast), or yelling it from the rooftops (or on WS). She was talking to these 65 people. Yes, it is possible for someone to go looking for it just like it's possible for someone to overhear your conversation at the diner. But she didn't send it to him or say it to him.

The governor's staff went looking (yes, hunting) for comments about the gov, both good and bad, and poorly chose to make a huge big deal out of nothing. To see how NOT a big deal it is, go to twitter and search for sucks or sux. There are thousands of hits, although you might not want to look at a lot of them. Everything on twitter "sucks", from grades to traffic to politics of every shade to the old fashioned meaning. :blushing: Most of this just passes by, like flotsam and jetsam on a river (hence the term "stream") without anyone noticing.

Unless, of course, the governor's office points it out. Now she has 4600% more followers than she had last week. Seriously? Charlie Sheen would kill for that kind of growth!

Thanks for the info angelmom! I don't tweet (heck I'm still figuring out FB) but I wondered if twitter has privacy settings like FB. This truly is a teachable moment in understanding the responsiblities/consequences of social networking.

I've enjoyed the good discussion and reading everyones' opinions here on this topic. It is interesting to me to read the differing thoughts from everyone regarding their interpretation of Ms. Sullivan's tweet.

My first thought about the 'heblowsalot' hashtag was that she was venting the gov. was blowing hot air due to her unhappiness about Brownback cutting out the arts in schools. I never thought of it as a sexual term meaning you know what. I wish we could hear his address to the students at this event because it might give us some insight into why Ms Sullivan felt compelled to tweet such a thing.

I support the arts in public schools. I am a former teacher and an artist who doesn't even live in KS and I am upset that Brownback cut out funding the arts. How disappointing for the students. And how out of touch from education is this man? Not every student is athletically inclined and it must be very disappointing for those students who planned to enter college as an art history, drama or music major (for example) to be faced with entering college with a deficit of missing those studies in HS.

I would really like it if Gov Brownback invited Emma for a meeting to air her issues. The key to being a great leader is an open dialogue. I've never held public office but was PTA pres for a couple years along with a few other positions and I always wanted to hear my critic's side. That's the only way I know how to strive to do better.

Does anyone know if the marching bands still receive funding or are they supported by the band boosters? Or are there no more half time shows at the games?

I also am curious about the number of staff members the Gov has who monitors social media and how much they are paid. Can't he use the same volunteers who supported his campaign?

Gosh this is a long post! I am going to shut up now. I didn't mean to go off on a tangent but arts in public schools is my passion so I can identify with ES's discontent and criticism of the Gov.

MOO

wm

 

[Kimberlyd125]

You mean, "they hunted her down?" Yeah. Just a little.

Hunted her down = pursued her, looked for her, tracked her down.

Perhaps it's a southern term.

It certainly does not mean flaming torches, pitchforks, shackles, or solitary confinement.

That was the exaggeration IMO.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Good for you! The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Parents set the standards. I don't necessarily agree with your daughter, I just think the teen was rude. But this goes to show that the parents set the standards. If you raise your child by using crude low class language, as these parents obviously did, then of course they won't think there is anything wrong with it either.

Saying something sucks has nothing to do with class.

 

[oh_gal]

Hunted her down = pursued her, looked for her, tracked her down.

Perhaps it's a southern term.

It certainly does not mean flaming torches, pitchforks, shackles, or solitary confinement.

That was the exaggeration IMO.

Well, you said they hunted her down, not me! LOL!
I was agreeing, that yes, that was kind of an exaggerational (yes,I made that word up, I think) use of terms (hunting her down -- I was just tagging onto your choice of words).

 

[Kimberlyd125]

It's a figure of speech. Perhaps it's regional.

I'll be hunting for (looking for) something to eat in a little while. It's lunchtime.

I'll be hunting for a bunch of presents at the mall this weekend too.

I won't be wearing camo though.

:crazy:

 

[Fairy1]

Good for you! The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Parents set the standards. I don't necessarily agree with your daughter, I just think the teen was rude. But this goes to show that the parents set the standards. If you raise your child by using crude low class language, as these parents obviously did, then of course they won't think there is anything wrong with it either.

I do agree with you on this point, Chewy. It's certainly not up to state governors or school principals to monitor or control the tone or context of what high school students are tweeting. If kids are going to be publicly called out over every rude or stupid comment they send into cyber space, stories such as this one will be ALL the media will have time to report!

We can only hope this girl's parents have taken this opportunity to discuss with her the consequences of her actions. That is their responsibility.

 

[oh_gal]

It's a figure of speech. Perhaps it's regional.

I'll be hunting for (looking for) something to eat in a little while. It's lunchtime.

I'll be hunting for a bunch of presents at the mall this weekend too.

I won't be wearing camo though.

:crazy:

But will you be packing mace?

 

[TrackerSam]

do we really need to celebrate and congratulate her for expressing herself in an incoherently and vulgar manner?

No and I don't think anyone has, nor do most think the phrase "sucks" was meant as a literal sexual act. We need to celebrate and congratulate ourselves and this girl for not kowtowing to thin skinned politicians who try stifle freedom of speech. What she said and how she said are of no consequence IMO, or at best, a topic for another thread.
And again, yes, she feels she has public support to spew whatever because she does have public support to spew whatever, and lets hope that never changes.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I do agree with you on this point, Chewy. It's certainly not up to state governors or school principals to monitor or control the tone or context of what high school students are tweeting. If kids are going to be publicly called out over every rude or stupid comment they send into cyber space, stories such as this one will be ALL the media will have time to report!

We can only hope this girl's parents have taken this opportunity to discuss with her the consequences of her actions. That is their responsibility.

I agree Fairy1. Parents must step up and take ownership in raising their children. (I am not insinuating that Emma's parents haven't been proactive parents as I do not know anything about the Sullivan family.)

I am being totally honest here, but some peoples parental skills suck! This is my opinion based on my experience working in the public school system.

Moo

wm


ETA My apologies if my use of the word 'suck' in my post offends anyone. That is not the intent. Maybe I should have used the word 'lame' instead. (But I don't like that word "lame" because I have an autoimmune disease which requires my using a cane at times...so I chose 'suck' instead.)

 

[Kimberlyd125]

But will you be packing mace?

I may be. You never know.
:smile:

 

[LimeCola]

No and I don't think anyone has, nor do most think the phrase "sucks" was meant as a literal sexual act. We need to celebrate and congratulate ourselves and this girl for not kowtowing to thin skinned politicians who try stifle freedom of speech. What she said and how she said are of no consequence IMO, or at best, a topic for another thread.
And again, yes, she feels she has public support to spew whatever because she does have public support to spew whatever, and lets hope that never changes.

I'm not sure I agree that what she said, and how she said it, are of no consequence, I think the context is entirely germane to this discussion.

As I see it, there are two issues at play here:

1. Freedom of speech. (no argument from me, I am totally supportive of protecting the rights of people to say whatever they want to say) and believe that it is a right worth defending.

2. The appropriateness of what, when and how something is said. This is what I am most disheartened by, that people are supporting her choice of wording and the appropriateness of her to make such a comment in a publicly available manner during an official school event.

 

[Angelonline]

I saw some posts talking about how anyone opposed to the girl's tweet/language/behavior must be doing so in support of this Republican Governor. Actually, I am not from anywhere near Kansas, have never heard of this Gov., did not know anything about him or his political party until those posters brought it up. However, I still think she was on a school sponsored event and should not have tweeted at all much less something derogatory about the trip. I am not sure all know the origins of the word "sucks", but they are not very nice. I know that my parents always forbid me from using the word and I always try to discourage my children from using it as well. I am for free speech, however what you say reflects on you and in this case her school as well. It is a good lesson for teens to learn that some times there are consequences for their actions. It also is good to learn to express ourself better when we disagree with someones policies. IMO if more people had learned this small lesson growing up there would be less political mudslinging today.

 

[sorrell skye]

In Medieval times, court jesters were employed for the express purpose of ridiculing the Monarchy. Rumor has it that Queen Elizabeth was offended when one of her jesters was too soft on her. Court jesters were also given free rein to deliver bad news without fear of punishment.

It seems to me that Governor Brownback should be grateful to Emma Sullivan. If the majority of teen & young adult Kansas voters share her sentiment, it behooves him to listen to their grievances & to make changes that address their concerns if he wants to remain in office, especially since young voters are becoming more politically active.

Emma Sullivan's tweet has opened the door for dialogue. Governor Brownback can either choose to listen - despite Emma's crude choice of words - or he can choose to disregard her (and, by extension, her cohort).

Could she have expressed herself in a more mature fashion? Of course.

Nevertheless, elected officials are public servants. The words a constituent uses will always be varied (some words will be highly intellectual, some words will be more down to earth), but they will never be exactly what a public servant wants to hear, unless that elected official pays a group pf sycophants to sing his/her praises. If a public servant only listens to praise & condemns opposition, that person is using his/her office for corrupt reasons that have nothing to do with serving their constituency.

While I may not agree with Emma's word choice in her tweet, I support her right to freely speak her mind regarding her Governor.

 

[kgeaux]

You know what is funny, how much common people get manipulated into getting into some sort of HOOPLAH over some rude teenager and trying to turn it into a violation of The Constitution.


MEEEEEEEEEEANwhile back at the camp we've got 26 Pakistanis killed by NATO and nary a thread on here that gives a flying flick.

I took a sociology course many years ago that spoke to the way media manipulates uneducated Americans with sweet all nothing going on in their lives to focus on the mundane rather than the real issues in the world.

Oh and btw

the Egyptian Elections took place today after the overthrow of the government

and oh a few hundred people died today of starvation etc etc etc


But HEY let's get up in arms about a teenager who got in trouble for being rude on her twitter account. THE CONSTITUTION IS AT STAKE.



Le sigh, le sigh, le sigh.

:truce:

Low class common people who are easily manipulated by the media? Is that really what you think of people who disagree with your opinion?

None of the other situations occurring in the world today are unimportant, but this thread is about one specific topic, so it's no wonder that most of the comments have centered on that topic.

As an upper middle class, educated and politically aware adult, I can be interested in MANY topics at once. I believe that cases in which a government official seeks to stifle the opinions of USA citizens IS a threat to the consitutional rights.

You are free to disagree, and I'm not going to insinuate that you are low class, uneducated, "common" or easily manipulated if you do.

 

[Fairy1]

Low class common people who are easily manipulated by the media? Is that really what you think of people who disagree with your opinion?

None of the other situations occurring in the world today are unimportant, but this thread is about one specific topic, so it's no wonder that most of the comments have centered on that topic.

As an upper middle class, educated and politically aware adult, I can be interested in MANY topics at once. I believe that cases in which a government official seeks to stifle the opinions of USA citizens IS a threat to the consitutional rights.

You are free to disagree, and I'm not going to insinuate that you are low class, uneducated, "common" or easily manipulated if you do.

Very well said. And given a choice, I believe I'd prefer to have someone just tell me I suck!

 

[Boytwnmom]

I don't believe I am "misunderstanding" the law. I am pretty capable of understanding the First Amendment and it's limits which I do not believe were reached here. The School District itself said

the Shawnee Mission School District "acknowledges a student's right to freedom of speech and expression is constitutionally protected."

The governor himself, apparently was "reminded" of the first amendment and posted a message on Facebook:

My staff over-reacted to this tweet, and for that I apologize. Freedom of speech is among our most treasured freedoms,” Brownback said in a statement posted on his Facebook.

The word "suck" is not a profanity and is hardly an unusual word for high school students or people generally to use. The Oxford Dictionary notes its use as slang:

3 [no object] North American informal be very bad or unpleasant:I love your country but your weather sucks

There is nothing in her tweet that disrupted the educational process especially as the educators and attendees were completely unaware that the "speech" even occurred until the governors brown shirts tattled to the Principal. Even the Hawthorne court which found that supervised student activities that "may fairly be characterized as part of the school curriculum," including school-sponsored publications and theatrical productions, were subject to the authority of educators, cautioned that this authority does not justify an educator's attempt "to silence a student's personal expression that happens to occur on the school premises. No one there even "heard" the speech, only people reading her twitter feed would have known of it. The governor had to TELL the school as they were unaware she had even "spoken".

It seems many are horrified that this girl was rude and said something disparaging about a sitting governor. I think it's a non-event and would have remained a non-event had government resources not been sqandered to document and report her tweet. I find him a pretty scary guy myself and I can think of many more articulate but equally negative and disparaging things to say about him. Perhaps her vocabulary was not all it should be. I still don't see what you apparently feel is a clear case where her speech woud not be protected under the First Amendment.

You are misunderstanding the law. Cohen v. California is the case that applies to the "F the Draft" expression. It does not apply to the conduct of kids in school. That's Rosenberger v. Rector.

And Tinker does not protect profanity, if it disrupts the school environment or school discipline. You (or the article's authors) omitted that last part.

But yes, I do have a huge problem with a governor expending resources to track down people who oppose his view. Reminds me of the Turkish trackers who track whenever anything is mentioned publicly anywhere about the Armenian genocide. And yes, I think the governor wants to squelch any negativity about him, which is not the spirit of our political system.

But I was addressing Emma's conduct mostly, not his. Emma is not a college kid being arrested for using a shocking vulgarity against a policy or a dictator to jar people out of complacency, which is what Cohen v. California was about. She is a high school student who publicly insulted a government official as a representative of her school. And it wasn't even well done!

As I said, the school probably doesn't have the right to force an apology, but they may have the right to suspend her and they certainly have the right to bar her from such activities in the future. Time, manner and place restrictions allow high school campuses to do that even when a state lacks the right to arrest a person for the same activity. That's what those cases state, when taken in context and together.

 

[reportertype]

This tweet went out to 60 people the girl knew. It's not her problem if somebody on the governor's staff searched through tweets, found it and freaked out.

Which is what I'm guessing they did, since they felt the need to figure out where she attended school, call up the school, rat her out about said tweet, and discuss an apology from her via the school.

Thin skinned - um, yeah, little bit. I don't care about her language - it's her right to use it. If you think she's vulgar, I would suggest not following her on twitter. Very simple.

Why should some people tell me how to speak or type on my twitter account? If you think the word is vulgar, don't use it.