Karr's psychological profile on Wendy Hutchen's site...OMG!

[aspidistra]

I just remembered something about one of Wendy Hutchen's televised interviews. Didn't she say that Karr had told her that he had eaten pineapple with JonBenet at a Ramsey party? I remember thinking, when I heard that someone (Karr or her or both) were getting two separate incidents mixed up.

JMO

That is what I think too. The pineapple stories were getting mixed up. It could be her error, or it could be Karr making it up. That is one thing that has to be cleared up.

 

[Hyatt]

She taped the calls with the FBI's help. It's because of her gaining his confidence that they got him on the child . Unfortunately they didn't see any evidence that he harmed any child, so child was all they charged him with and he fled the country.

I don't see this rancor toward Wendy Hutchens, assuming she is somehow unbalanced. She was a guest of Larry King, Paula Zahn, and Nancy Grace, all of whom felt she was believable. The Sonoma police dept. issued a press release confirming she worked for them to get Karr to talk about his crimes against children.

If she wrote the profile it was with the help of the investigators, and it was based on his own taped words. This is not a crackpot loon trying to glorify herself. This is a look into the mind of a dangerous criminal. People are shooting the messenger.

She met Karr because she knew Richard Davis (killer of Polly Klaas) from childhood, lived on the same street, and wrote to him asking if he knew about the death of someone else she knew. Because at the same time Karr was writing to Richard Davis, he put her in touch with Karr through some website. She explained all this on LKL today, there is probably a transcript on line if you want more exact details. Then when she began seeing how disturbed Karr was she went to the police, and from then on taped his conversations for them.

Well, I watched the LKL and believe me, you'd never know if if LK found her to be believable or not - he never gives himself away. As for Nancy Grace, well, I don't put much store in what SHE believes or not and mainly see a lot of drama - sensationalism to which Zahn is also not immune. I would like to hear Wendy Hutchen's own contribution to those conversations she taped. Context is EVERYTHING. To be in contact with the Klaas case AND this one, just seems too fishy for me.



JMO

 

[vacationwarrior]

I really hope that he never touched his own children.
Maybe if he's put away for good, passing the perversion from parent to child will end.

A pedophile and sexual molester has specific criteria for the victims they choose which is evidenced by the profile which states:

"John is a pedophile who loves little girls . . ."

Boys were not JMK's things-- girls were/are. That's not to say that all molesters only prefer one sex. There are many who just love children, in general. He doesn't happen to be one of those, however-- his thing is girls and *that's* what turns him on (as horribly horrific, disgusting and nearly unforgiveable as that mere thought is). Consequently, his boys or any boys wouldn't do a thing for him, sexually. And, molestation is the physical manifestation of a perverse sexual fantasy that molesters seek to gratify and they generally speaking they do not seek an alternative outlet that would not satisfy that psychological/sexual gratification because there simply is no alternative outlet for them.

I could be totally off-base here but I pray that I am not, simply for the sake of his sons. I pray that he stuck with his "preference" and left his own children alone. I'm not saying that molesting *any* child is acceptable but, there should be some special punishment here on earth that should be reserved for a "parent" that crosses that particular line with their own child, be it biological, adopted or step-child (and I use the term "parent" loosely for a molester/child sexual predator NEVER satisfies even the simple, most liberal definition of a 'parent').

Vacationwarrior

P.S. Yes, I know he doesn't consider what he did "molestation" because "he and JBR loved one another" (not verbatim but, that's basically what he said). But that's the way molesters think-- they don't "molest"; they "love". Puke, gag, shoot, bang.

 

[Old Broad]

I believe JK's natural mother is the one who allegedly molested him. She was committed to an institution after she tried to set him on fire, but at some point she was released. We haven't heard when that was. I believe she did die at 40. She evidently participated some in the upbringing of her boys.

I also found it interesting that in the profile JK give 3 different reasons how his mother died: suicide, homicide by his father, and homicide by he himself. JK obviously lies. Can this case get any stranger???

From what I've understood, JMK was living with his mother until the age of 12, that was when the mother was institutionalized and mother/father divorced. The story was that she was killed in a car accident but it was just to cover up the truth. Not sure if JMK knew the truth at that time. If she had died then you'd be expecting a funeral etc.
It's stated that she did die in 2000. Father married again to another younger woman and I believe she is the mother of the youngest brother. JMK was sent to live with his grandparents.
I know everything would be "confidential" but it would be very interesting to get a glimps at his mothers records wherever she was hospitalized, would there be any open court records if she was commited? Also the divorce records should be available.

I work with people who are diagnosed with pedophile tendencies, it's terrible, it's sick and people need to understand that this sickness is out there much more than they realize. The smart ones are able to hide it. I will admit to being suspicous of everyone who puts themself into dealings with children, why do they want to work with them, do activities with them, coach them, mentor them? I always ask, what's in it for them?

OB

 

[gaia]

Old Broad, your post triggered something my psychologist told me years ago. When she was in graduate school and working at an institution, she was asked to work with some convicted child molesters in a prison nearby. She went into it with those wonderful pie-in-the-sky ideas most of us have when we're young and enthusiastic that included the belief NOBODY is unredeemable. Well, she told me, after working with these guys, she came to the conclusion these people CANNOT be rewired, reworked, or changed...at least not with the current methods and even the current meds. She said she drew a conclusion right then and there the best thing for children was to have those guys locked up FOREVER...as we find them. Now, my question is, since there are many more than anyone can begin to imagine, just how many prisons would it take to put 'em all away and help to protect our children? Sheesh, my mom watched me like a hawk when I was a kid, yet all it took was a few minutes in the house next door for me to be molested by the young teen male! There ya go!!:behindbar

 

[Old Broad]

Hello Gaia
Yes I would say your friend was correct. Once these urges set in they're there for life IMO.
There will never be enough prisons to hold all that are needed and until laws are changed not enough will actually be "locked up" to many are given chance after chance, a slap on the hand, probation, etc. So many are still seen as "Oh they just have a problem but with getting help they are doing better" This is so wrong! With all the terrible headlines we read, we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg, every state needs to toughen their laws and once a preditor is recognized they should never have the chance to reoffend, but to many people think that's to harsh and people can be rehabilitated.
The one good thing I see with all the coverage going on with Karr is that more parents will have their eyes opened up and use more caution in who they let have access to their children.

OB

 

[gaia]

Hello Gaia
Yes I would say your friend was correct. Once these urges set in they're there for life IMO.
There will never be enough prisons to hold all that are needed and until laws are changed not enough will actually be "locked up" to many are given chance after chance, a slap on the hand, probation, etc. So many are still seen as "Oh they just have a problem but with getting help they are doing better" This is so wrong! With all the terrible headlines we read, we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg, every state needs to toughen their laws and once a preditor is recognized they should never have the chance to reoffend, but to many people think that's to harsh and people can be rehabilitated.
The one good thing I see with all the coverage going on with Karr is that more parents will have their eyes opened up and use more caution in who they let have access to their children.

OB

Yep, let's hope parents everywhere are put on notice!!!

 

[miss plum]

I'm probably butting in here since I don't know nearly as much about all this as most people here do, but I'm very interested in this idea that Karr has been on some kind of crusade to change people's thinking about pedophilia. Every time he has been shown on tv I have been puzzled by his demeanour: he looks martyred, almost self-righteous, like some kind of Joan of Arc figure. I have been wondering why he would look like that, like someone who thinks they are being brave and noble and suffering for some kind of cause, and this information about him makes some sense of it (albeit bizarre, deluded, horrible and criminal sense).

 

[azwriter]

Oh, that is an awful thought! Give him "Passover" as a nickname! Seven Exodus sounds like a horror movie to me.

I do have a personal bias against people who give their children really unusual names that draw negative attention from their peers.

It is enough that we burden our children with our own issues, we don't need to give them names that are burdens as well.

I don't know, maybe he was a Seinfield fan. In one eposide of Seinfield George wanted to name his future child Seven cause it was Mickey Mantle's number.

 

[Texana]

I don't know, maybe he was a Seinfield fan. In one eposide of Seinfield George wanted to name his future child Seven cause it was Mickey Mantle's number.

Or maybe he's just a loser like Costanza? :loser:

 

[HeartofTexas]

When you read about Karr's early history, that is being molested by his mother one minute and her trying to kill him the next, there's ample reason for him to be nuts. OTOH, he will never get well and he will continue to be a danger for the rest of his life. I don't think he had anything to do with JonBenet's death ... and probably the closest he has ever come to her is thru his vivid imagination... but that doesn't preclude the possibility of him becoming a danger to other children. His mind seems to be deteriorating with each passing year, so the quicker he's locked away, the better off the world is.

 

[southerngirl]

I'm probably butting in here since I don't know nearly as much about all this as most people here do, but I'm very interested in this idea that Karr has been on some kind of crusade to change people's thinking about pedophilia. Every time he has been shown on tv I have been puzzled by his demeanour: he looks martyred, almost self-righteous, like some kind of Joan of Arc figure. I have been wondering why he would look like that, like someone who thinks they are being brave and noble and suffering for some kind of cause, and this information about him makes some sense of it (albeit bizarre, deluded, horrible and criminal sense).

Those are excellent observations, and I think you are correct. He wants to change society's thinking on adult/child sexual relationships, which would in turn decrease the murders of little children. He DOES believe he is on a crusade.

 

[nanandjim]

The profile does say that John is desperately seeking the high profile that certain killer pedophiles receive in order to convey his message. Apparently, his message is that society should accept that it is okay for men to fulfill their sexual desires with young girls.

The profile also says that John doesn't want people to know that he is a pedophile until he can be sure that they understand that he never meant to hurt the little girls. He just wanted to love them.

I believe that this assessment of him is dead on. This is exactly what he has done with the JBR case. He must be in hog heaven.

I never thought that he committed the JBR murder. Reading this assessment just confirms my thinking that he is just a really, really sick guy who comes from a really, really sick family.

It also wouldn't surprise me if he had some kind of sick interaction with his sons. Didn't his ex-wife get a restraining order to keep him from seeing his sons?

 

[gaia]

Or maybe he's just a loser like Costanza? :loser:

Are you talking about "Can't-Stand-Ya"? Ha, did you see that episode with his old hgh school coach giving poor old George an "atomic" wedgie?

Ok, back to the case! Sorry, couldn't resist! I'm a big Seinfeld fan!

 

[blonde1]

When you read about Karr's early history, that is being molested by his mother one minute and her trying to kill him the next, there's ample reason for him to be nuts. OTOH, he will never get well and he will continue to be a danger for the rest of his life. I don't think he had anything to do with JonBenet's death ... and probably the closest he has ever come to her is thru his vivid imagination... but that doesn't preclude the possibility of him becoming a danger to other children. His mind seems to be deteriorating with each passing year, so the quicker he's locked away, the better off the world is.

Right, no boundaries between reality and his imagined participation applies to his stories about his mother's death and maybe JB's too --
There are so many good insights into him from this board -- from the examples cited seems there is a wide spectrum of creepy people. I've often wondered why crazy people seem to act out through sex and death -- why not flip out some other way? Like get obsessed with art or mechanics (maybe some do). But I guess for some, like Karr, and the guy I knew, it's their hatred of themselves that makes them focus on forcing things they don't believe they can get properly through socially acceptable ways, on other people, controlling and harming them, acting out of delusions that are rooted in a abusive childhood, crusading to validate their own warped ideas.
But for others, I guess the "sociopath" brand, they aren't particulary acting according to delusion or crusading, they're just grabbing whatever is closest to satisfy their desire - that's how I think the "child molestation" happens in families - just people taking advantage of the closest most helpless person, without much premeditation or reasoning of any kind, rational or crazy. Like the Klass and Lunsford murderers, just opportunity, impulse, compulsion.
My friend's sister-in-law runs a treatment center for the whole range of peds/molesters -- she says no way do any of them get "cured" -- the goal is management...

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

When you read about Karr's early history, that is being molested by his mother one minute and her trying to kill him the next, there's ample reason for him to be nuts. OTOH, he will never get well and he will continue to be a danger for the rest of his life. I don't think he had anything to do with JonBenet's death ... and probably the closest he has ever come to her is thru his vivid imagination... but that doesn't preclude the possibility of him becoming a danger to other children. His mind seems to be deteriorating with each passing year, so the quicker he's locked away, the better off the world is.

I don't think JMK had much to do with his biological mother. I certainly don't believe a word that come sout of his mouth about her and his childhood relationship with her because I believe he's a 100% congenital liar.

I have a hard time imagining his family would permit his mother unsupervised access to a child she had attempted to murder. And I seriously doubt he knew the truth about her mental state or what she did to him as a baby until he was grown. What family in their right mind would tell a child his mother tried to burn him alive to chase the demons out of him? What possible good come from telling them something like that? From all accounts, his grandmother doted on him, so I doubt she would have allowed him to learn the truth.

Wex Karr lived with the woman who would be his 2nd wife for several years while still married to his 1st wife (I think the mother was committed for several years and theior divorce was along the lines of how you divorced mentally ill people back then).

I don;'t doubt this man was molested as achild, but not by a woman. Gender confusion the way Karr has manifested itself is more likely the product of being molested by someone of the same sex.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

The profile does say that John is desperately seeking the high profile that certain killer pedophiles receive in order to convey his message.

I have to keep in mind that while the document is proclaimed to a "profile" there's no evidence yet that it's anything but the opinion--however possibly well-informed-- of a non-psychologist.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

I have a hard time imagining his family would permit his mother unsupervised access to a child she had attempted to murder.

We haven't heard a family member yet admit that JMK's mother tried to kill him. That info came from a longtime friend of Wexford Karr's, but we don't know how the friend obtained the information. Was he a witness to it, or was he told 'all about' by Wexford? Is it accurate or is it someone's imagination or someone's invented explanation?

Wex Karr lived with the woman who would be his 2nd wife for several years while still married to his 1st wife (I think the mother was committed for several years and theior divorce was along the lines of how you divorced mentally ill people back then).

Do you have a link to that information that you state as a fact?

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

We haven't heard a family member yet admit that JMK's mother tried to kill him. That info came from a longtime friend of Wexford Karr's, but we don't know how the friend obtained the information. Was he a witness to it, or was he told 'all about' by Wexford? Is it accurate or is it someone's imagination or someone's invented explanation?



Do you have a link to that information that you state as a fact?

There were reports on ABC of the mother being committed and they even named the mental hospital.

And if the family friend was making up the stuff about the mother trying to kill the infant Karr, there was a hell of a lot of detail involved.

So far there is far more evidence that Karr is a deeply disturbed pedophile with a history of obsessive behavior re the murder cases of little girls than there is he's a sadistic torture-killer.

 

[blonde1]

I don't think JMK had much to do with his biological mother. I certainly don't believe a word that come sout of his mouth about her and his childhood relationship with her because I believe he's a 100% congenital liar.

I have a hard time imagining his family would permit his mother unsupervised access to a child she had attempted to murder. And I seriously doubt he knew the truth about her mental state or what she did to him as a baby until he was grown. What family in their right mind would tell a child his mother tried to burn him alive to chase the demons out of him? What possible good come from telling them something like that? From all accounts, his grandmother doted on him, so I doubt she would have allowed him to learn the truth.

....
I don;'t doubt this man was molested as achild, but not by a woman. Gender confusion the way Karr has manifested itself is more likely the product of being molested by someone of the same sex.

Unfortunately, mothers have plenty of opportunity for abuse - if the mom is not stable enought to work, or if the hub wants her to be home, she's got all day to be weird. One case I know, the mom did things like walk around topless or naked in the house during the day, in front of her son, while constantly talking about her body and sex. Her daughter witnessed it, but didn't get the same kind of warping from it -- the son, as he got older, has lots in common with Karr's weird ideas, though he's not a pedophile -- as an adult, he is very much a carbon copy of his mother's obsessive personality and as a weird detail, styles his hair exactly like hers -- totally out of synch with his peers -- kinda Psycho-y.